The equivalent to 200 slaves.

[murray hill farm]

I read recently, that the energy and technology that each of us uses each day is the equivalent to having 200 slaves...as compared to the days before the industrial revolution. As our resources decline and we no longer have, each of us, the equivalent of 200 slaves, i wonder if any of us can imagine what that will be like..if say we only had the equivalent of 50 slaves...or none.

[stillcool]

1. whenever I fantasize....

about winning the lottery....it entails laying the ground work for a self-sustaining community. No taxes, no services, no grid-electricity ..only power from wind, solar,...wood burning stoves... and on and on. No money. Barter system only... where time is the highest value. No automobiles...grow only enough food to feed those in the commune...farm animals coats provide material for knitting, spinning...it's such a cool fantasy....course...I have no idea where this would take place outside of la-la-land....

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. You stole me fantasy! *g* Seriously I would love to build up a commune. We

sort of have one down the road from here, actually: H.O.M.E. Don't think they have a website that I know of, though.

[stillcool]

19. when I win I'll send you an email....

:toast:

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Way cool and ditto *g*

[Cats Against Frist]

8. Yeah, that's my fantasy, too

And YES it's what I fantasize about when I think of winning the lottery. The thing is, is that to have that fantasy, you have to be a total Luddite. My snap-back-to-reality moment comes when I think I might like to see my son grow up, and if I grew a tumor in one of my organs, I like the fact that there is medical technology that has been developed to yank it out.

I was thinking of the idea of parasitic communes -- I'm a libertarian/anarchist, so, for me, it's no big deal to say that if the masses want to turn themselves into human capital, and technology advances from the concentration of wealth -- let them. I guess I'd just sell products off the commune, or create non-profit health cooperatives with other like-minded folks.

I love the idea, though, and moreso than even the baking and knitting and growing food -- the community.

It's kind of why I hate cities, and I think that liberals should vacate them, and grab up small towns in the "heartland" and create little commune towns. One can dream...

[KnaveRupe]

15. Why fantasize? Just become Amish. n/t

[Sequoia]

2. The book, "The End of Ancient Sunlight"

(I think that's the title, I read it) talks about that sort of thing.

[acmejack]

10. The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight!

nt

[Sequoia]

17. Thank ya, I knew I was wrong on the title

[Skidmore]

3. What an assinine comparison.

So machine technology is the only thing saving us from having to have slaves? BS. We have all become slaves to the technology and the people who own it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. No it isn't saving us from having slaves but there is a point to thinking

about what labor those machines are saving us from. I mean, I could go down to a local pond and beat my clothes on a rock but I kinda like being able to dump a load of wash into a machine instead. I think my ancestors would be shocked by how much sitting around I get to do. I don't have to haul the water for the garden, there's a hose. I have a bread machine mix my dough for me, when I'm not buying my bread from the store.

I think it would be a real shock for a lot of people if they lost all their technology and had to get by without it.

[Skidmore]

9. Man, I have to haul water.

When I broke my elbow, I was told, there was no chance I would recover full extension of my arm again. Well I got it up to about 98%, much better than the doctor said, because I had to haul water. We do lots of stuff the old fashioned way. I very much believe that if you don't use it, you lose it. At the rate we are going, we very well may one day need to go back to a much simpler lifestyle.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. I agree. I would like to simplify things a bit if only to make sure that

my kids know how to survive if the world should almost end tomorrow, y'know?

[RufusEarl]

11. It's not a machine but!

Our water main broke this past weekend, and we were without running water for three days. And it made me think, how easy we have it this day and age.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. During the ice storm of '98 we were without power, water, and heat for

10 days. We also went without running water in the summer due to drought and winter due to freezing pipes, and the main wasteline coming out of the trailer would plug up and hubby would have to get under there and pull it apart and let it drain. I am _so_ glad he never asked me to go down there and do that.

[RufusEarl]

16. Living in the NE

It's get so much colder in your part of the country, then down here in Texas. But as i get older, the hot hot summers are getting harder to handel.

I would say thank goodness for A/C, but with our electric bills going up @40% that may be to expensive this coming summer. Maybe DU will help keep me comfortable, this coming year!

[politicat]

5. I got a taste of it seven years ago....

The city water main into my street froze and broke, leaving us without water for a couple of days; this was immediately followed by spring rains that flooded the creek near my house and broke into the newly repaired water supply. So the water was seriously unsafe (e coli and listeria and dawg knows what else).

We also had intermittent power outages, and the gas main had to be turned off while they were fixing the water and electric lines. It was about two weeks of highly unreliable utilities, more likely to be off than on.

So no water, no power, no gas. We were lucky enough to have a car that didn't mind rain (I had one early in my life that would not run if it was raining) and enough money to buy bottled water and have a city rec center membership near work. So we could shower three or four times a week and sponge off the other days. We were also lucky that while it was wet and damp and dark, the weather shifted FAST and we went from sub-zero temps to forties and fifties very quickly. It was cool, but it wasn't freezing. (That's normal Colorado by the way. Temps have been known to drop more than 70 degrees in a 24 hour period.)

It's a fuck lot of work to even eat and keep clean in those conditions - we did a lot of ramen and instant soup and tea over the camping (pump up) grill we'd bought at Goodwill.

If I had to curry the horses and swamp out the stable and milk the cow and wash the clothes with a scrub board and sprinkle and iron everything and keep my wood stove going and knead my bread by hand and grind my own flour and sew my own clothes by hand and slaughter the hogs...

I think I'd be thankful to die in childbirth.

[Trevelyan]

6. Maybe that is why THE CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR series was so popular

Someone on Smirking Chimp said a while back that Bushco will have us living in caves soon. There was a photo of a burned leather bag on a wooden tripod by someone who tried to cook food the way Ayla did...but it didn't work for the poster, I think is was on the author's (Jean Auel) website.


Wasn't there a British sitcom on PBS 20 years ago about a couple who decided to quit their jobs and go for self-sufficiency but did it in a suburban neightborhood and the neighbors objected but they kept at it and were finally after a few years worn out by the slave labor it entailed.:)

This is my fantasy too and keep reading the Cave Bear series for ideas but don't know if they are really workable.:-)

[phusion]

14. Want some inspiration?

Read Gaviotas Alan Weisman:

" Gaviotas is a village of about 200 people in Colombia, South America. For three decades, Gaviotans - peasants, scientists, artists, and former street kids - have struggled to build an oasis of imagination and sustainability in the remote, barren savannas of eastern Colombia, an area ravaged by political terror. They have planted millions of trees, thus regenerating an indigenous rainforest. They farm organically and use wind and solar power. Every family enjoys free housing, community meals, and schooling. There are no weapons, no police, no jail. There is no mayor."

[Cleita]

18. Go camping for two weeks without driving into town for stuff.

Although most campgrounds have toilet facilities and water, you still get a pretty good idea of living without electricity and hauling your water to the campsite for washing, cooking and drinking.

I scavanger for firewood. Although I also take a supply with me in case there isn't any dead shrubs or tree branches around. I don't chop down anything that's living.

I like to go camping when I can, just to keep myself grounded. The food I take is either packaged or canned. If there is a stream nearby, I keep my drinks cool there or just drink them at the temperature they are.

It's not exactly as primitive as living in the Stone Age, but you can get a good idea of it.

[AlienGirl]

20. As resources decline, that power will come from human labor again

Most of us will again be slaves, and the few mega-rich will enjoy a decent standard of living.

How many unpaid laborers would it take to keep one oligarch in luxury, do you suppose? Think if the ratio it would take, and then think about how the middle class is being driven down into poverty...

Tucker