Why South Dakota won't allow abortion in cases of incest

[Kelvin Mace]

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. This fat fuck probably thinks this song

is a spiritual:

http://www.ziplo.com/grandpa.htm

[Sequoia]

5. And loves the story of Lot in the Bible.

I hated that story as a kid. Hated it. I could never find a verse that said it was sinful but mothers and sons were mentioned; as was seeing your nekid parents. Crazy. If I had his kid I'd head to North Dakota.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

7. If I had his kid,

I'd have been dead by my own hand a long time ago.

And gratefully so.

[Sequoia]

58. Then we would've never heard from you or your sage advice.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

61. Listen ...........

If anyone somehow allowed herself to become impregnated by that fat fuck - and I'm even talking about getting knocked up via that apocryphal public toilet seat, you got that? - she was never anyone to whom you should pay attention.

But ain't you sweet?

;)

[FreedomAngel82]

66. Right and don't forget

Lot also offered his daughters to some strangers on their trail. Don't forget how Adam and Eve and their kids populated: with each other. But gay marriage is so wrong. :eyes: (Side note: I'm a Christian who never got that either)

[Sequoia]

75. Actually, there were other people on the Earth, but

they were the ones evolving into humans!!! Adam and Eve were from another planet and their spaceship wasn't able to get back. Heh, heh!

[hfojvt]

71. you are aware, aren't you

that there is no incest involved in that song? A man marries a widow who has a grown daughter. That grown daughter marries his dad. Kinda strange arrangement, but not incestuous biologically. Say 25 year old man marries a 48 year old woman with a 32 year old daughter who later marries his 44 year old dad.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

80. Oh, yeah...........

but it just seemed to fit right then.

I'm not sure a song about incest would really have become a classic like that one did.

We lawyers tend to enjoy songs like "I'm My Own Grandpa." It's a hymn to the legal system, actually.

;)

[Danieljay]

2. tasteless post. Do we really need to go there to make a point? n/t

[Lars39]

11. Yes, we do. They are pro-rapist.

[displacedtexan]

13. You probably won't like this, either.

Sorry in advance.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. I don't think any apologies are needed for speaking the truth.

[Bucky]

21. Nor are lies. I agree the law is anti-rape victim; but still...

It's a bad law. It's a very bad law and I expect it'll get smacked down even by this Supreme Court. But it really is beyond the pale to suggest that state reps who voted for this law did so so that they could rape their own daughters. I tend not to find rape jokes funny or amusing or even enlightening--even when they support my side of the debate. Perhaps it's just being the father of a 15 year old girl, but this doesn't sell our message, only vents an unhealthy sarcasm.

[Kelvin Mace]

30. ANY man who would refuse

to allow an abortion in cases of rape or incest is a man with a mentallity not far removed from my pointed picture.

Also, I am NOT so sure this Supreme Court will have a problem with the law. They *might* overturn it becuase of this exclusion, but signal that they will accept the law with the exclusion.

[Bucky]

34. The Alito strategy is the one they'll go with. Take Roe down in 3-5 chunks

That makes a lot more sense than saying pro-Lifers are pro-Rape. If we want to survive the next 30 year of jurisimprudence* we're going to need to start thinking strategically, not apocalyptically.

(*I just made that word up, altho I bet someone else has coined it before me)

[Critters2]

46. It's a good word!

You should get it copyrighted. It'll be everywhere soon--like "truthiness".

[Kelvin Mace]

47. This country will NOT survive this court.

Once the administration is prosecuted, everything they have done must be UNDONE. Alito should be impeached for lying to the Senate Judiciary committee. Scalia and Thomas should be impeached for Bush v. Gore, since there is pleanty of evidence that the decision was made for personal reasons, not legal ones.

[FreedomAngel82]

67. Can that happen??

[Kelvin Mace]

76. Could we impeach these clowns?

Yes, but it will take a spine, and the Vichy Dems will have to be tossed out and replaced with vertibrates.

[hfojvt]

70. that is, of course, completely illogical

There are still, in SD, criminal penalties for rape and incest. However, those are not visited upon the children of rape or incest. If a person believes, as many Americans do, that only God creates life and that it is sacrilege to destroy what God has created. That may be superstitious nonsense, but it is hardly support of either rape or incest.

[Kelvin Mace]

81. The people who hold such exclusionary views

are a VERY SMALL minority of the total population. The view that women may not control their own bodies, that they are simply incubators who must never destroy something a man put in them, is a very sick and twisted view of women and sexuality. Whenever I have encountered these viewpoints it didn't stop there. I found men who believed that women are not "raped" unless they did something wrong, and this applied to children as well.

Religion is at best a neurosis, at worst a severe psychotic disorder.

[Tsiyu]

86. There is a lot of sickness and perversion among fundies

The picture in the OP is compelling and gets the point across. I mean, it's obvious by this man's appearance that he has ZERO impulse control when it comes to food. What else can't he control?

He needs to get that beam of gluttony out of his eye before he goes any further claiming any moral high ground.

As for the "God creates life" crap with which you just contended, I wonder if many people realize how many fertilized eggs are washed away every month. Only a tiny fraction of these zygotes actually make it to birth. What does god have against all those little "babies?"

In the case of incest, anyone who would force a young girl or woman to bear a child born of rape by a family member is AN ANIMAL.

No exceptions. They are ANIMALS.

You are right on the money, Honey. :yourock:

[GreenPartyVoter]

55. Just to be clear,

I was referring to the coat hanger poster not the pic in the original OP.

[f-bush]

49. That is an excellent ad and a serious wake up call

sad to say it is happening again in the US and all because half this country is asleep at the polls and too lazy to figure out the substance behind the issues.

[Kelvin Mace]

27. Yes

Tasteless? Maybe. But I from my own experience people like this asshole have a twisted sexual psyche making the viewpoint not as "out there" as you would think.

[Danieljay]

54. sorry, I'm still not convinced this ad is appropriate.

Although I do support a woman's right to choose, the implication that anyone who doesn't is a rapist and child molester is preposterous. Ignorant and a heartless fool? absolutely! Rapist and child molester, I dont think so.

[Lars39]

57. See post #42.

[Kelvin Mace]

64. Uhhh...

it's not an "ad", its a political cartoon.

[Texacrat]

73. Usually I would agree with you, but on this case yes

Sorry, they call us murderers.

[teriyaki jones]

3. Eeeeeewwwwwwww! n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. I just love when a government full of men want to decide what is

the best course of action in a PRIVATE medical situation.

Just back off people, and stay out of my uterus!

[eggman67]

6. Yeah, especially when...

...it was a Democrat WOMAN that sponsored the bill.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Yeah, I saw that she was involved and my mouth just dropped open. I mean

even my conservative evangelical minister FIL believes in abortion in cases of rape and incest.

[Nobody]

25. She can carry and bear every

fetus or embryo that someone else doesn't want. Let's implant them into her. She seems to have volunteered.

[kevinbgoode]

32. It seems to me that if evangelicals can create all kinds of

wacky constitutional amendments, why not encourage some folks in South Dakota to propose a constitutional amendment requiring just that? After all, we can start debates too. . .we don't always have to play defense with the "war on Christmas" crowd. . .

[Nobody]

82. I plan to do just that

Coming soon: Letters (Not emails!) to every legislator in SD, tailored to whether or not they voted for this ban, demanding free health care for all pregnant women and all children, a constitutional amendment to create all age-related laws take effect nine months prior to a citizen's due date (you'll get to vote at age 17+3 months), free contraceptives and accurate info on how to use them widely available and advertized with the same zeal as a candidate running for office.

This is just a beginning. I expect to spend a lot on stamps. Letters are far more effective than email in my opinion.

[Kelvin Mace]

31. Another Vichy Democrat

[Bunny]

40. No, it was a Democratic woman.

Not a Democrat woman. Please, don't use THEIR language.

[eggman67]

48. Yeah she's obviously VERY Democratic

The term I used was correct. The PARTY is the Democratic Party a member there of is a Democrat.

[Bunny]

50. No, you're usage was incorrect.

She is a woman Democrat, or a Democratic woman. She is NOT a Democrat woman. That is a right-wing meme, and does not need to be propagated by progressives.

[eggman67]

51. Its two consecutive nouns and I'll

put them in any order I damn well please.

What I will NOT do. EVER. Is apply the adjective Democratic to anyone that would support, let alone sponsor this filthy fucking obscene undemocratic legislation.

Clear enough?

[Bunny]

52. Yes, your obstinate refusal to use correct grammar is quite clear.

Glad to see you owning it.

[femrap]

59. Maybe she sees Single Fertile Woman as a Threat.....

And the fear of pregnancy is the only thing that keeps them from raping perfectly docile and faithful husbands.

Abortion and Birth Control are the biggest threats to the Taming of Women....do you think that a 'tamed' woman has great hostility toward those who aren't and as a result want deny them their reproductive freedom?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. Without an invitation,

delivered in person, you are not welcome there.

I wonder why vasectomies aren't illegal. I mean, all those poor, disenfranchised sperm.

And hand jobs?

What about blowjobs?

Jerking off?

Oh, the sins, the sins ......................

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. I am suprised they haven't found a way to outlaw menstruation given that

it means a poor little egg is losing its life.

[LeftyMom]

22. They'll work on it.

Good little Marthas concieve promptly. If we're not getting knocked up enough, we just may be *gasp* having sex for fun. :scared:

[Left Is Write]

24. You're not allowed to enjoy sex. Big Brother said so.

[autorank]

29. SD moderates: Enjoy it but then deny it was enjoyable. n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

33. That's next

One thing at a time.

[Peanutcat]

8. What about not allowing abortion in cases of rape?

"Why should we punish a rapist by killing his child?" Can't remember where I read that at.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. I can think of a lot of ways

to punish a rapist.

So can the legal system.

Since when did old white guys get in on that game?

This guy's being played for a fool - he's just the front guy in the movement to overrule Roe.

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. "Why should we punish a rape victim by forcing her to carry to term

a fetus from whom every kick is being raped all over again?" --Me

You'll note only the babies and the men rate here... to hell with the women, right? x(

[Gloria]

17. If the state is going to abuse rape victims, why not abuse the rapist by

doing something to HIS sexual being--let's see...,cutting off his penis???

I am so pissed about this CRAP!!!!

I really want to set up that "woman smuggling" underground railroad to "safe states" NOW, NOW, NOW. Right NOW!!!! Get it into place ahead of what the next round of abuse from the legislatures and the courts bring to us. Women are now being treated like Bushco treats women in 3rd world countries--as chattel.

[durrrty libby]

20. My blood boils

when I hear men trying to dictate on women’s health issues.

It truly angers me.

Butt Out Buster!

[neweurope]

19. You must be crazy. It's the WOMAN who has to bear this child.

I feel helpless rage when I read stupid posts like yours.

-------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Kelvin Mace]

38. Errr, I think the poster

was making a point about the stupidity of that point of view, not endorsing it.

[neweurope]

72. I hope you're right...

--------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[eggman67]

37. Possibly to their way of thinking

If she get's pregnant it ain't rape, it's "God's will" and she'll have to marry the rapist.

[spanone]

15. ...or rape. Who are these people?

CNN reported that a poll showed 66% of the people polled did NOT want Roe V Wade overturned.

[Left Is Write]

23. Even *with* an exception for rape or incest, it would be a horrible law.

All women should have access to safe first trimester abortions for whatever reasons they deem necessary. None should have to give her reason to anyone. Even if there were an exception for rape and/or incest, why should a rape victim have to petition the court for the right to an abortion and have to relive her rape all over again - or worse, have to "prove" it to someone before she can obtain an abortion?

It all comes down to the privacy issue.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. I agree with you completely

But I was in a foul mood and wanted to zero in on the rape/incest issue and highlight the type of people we are dealing with.

[Gloria]

36. Yes, it is a bad law and it seems like the sort of thing we've

been seeing all along--"just accept this, and you'll preserve what REALLY matters"....a lot like the Democrats in DC on judges, privacy, etc. etc.

It keeps shifting us away from the core of what is principled and over to "the other side"...as far as what everyone begins to think of as "acceptable."

[autorank]

28. Bring it on...but at great loss to innocents--reality versus reality.

Well, the "morans" have their way. A state of .5 million people thinks it can wag the dog. And a court of five cultivated, manicured (in some cases) neocons thinks it wan wag the dog.

I remember when abortion was legalized.

I remember why it was legalized.

I was in NY State when a brave member of the state legislature stood up and changed
his vote to legalize abortion because he knew why it needed to be legalized.

When you sow the wind, you risk reaping the whirlwind.

Get ready right wing, you're in for the ass kicking of you lives. You were warned.

On edit: Recommended. Brilliant Kevin!!!

[Kelvin Mace]

41. I am SO angry

at Lieberman and ALL the Vichy Dems who refused to fillibuster.

I had to channel my anger and this asshole stuck his nose out.

[autorank]

69. Good useof anger. The neoRepukes are just awful. 19 or so Dems...

As I said about them in some post somewhere:

What is their major malfunction?

The tragedy is what will happen. The benefit is that NO choice is just as unacceptable now as it was when it was changed way back. LIEberman will pay because you just know what they'll do on partial birth. They are disgusting. I share your sentiments and your photoshop is great:)

[LiviaOlivia]

35. F South Dakota

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2006_02_19_atrios_archive.html#114070492352500754

South Dakota

South Dakota has passed a clearly unconstitutional abortion ban. Presumably a lawsuit will be filed and a federal court will toss the law out, the only question being whether Roberts and Strip Search Sammy will then decide to hear the case.

I've long thought that if Roe goes then the boycotting of states which ban abortion would be a moral imperative. I see no reason to visit states which claim they own the deed to my wife's uterus.

-Atrios

[EFerrari]

39. Won't load for me. nt

[Kelvin Mace]

43. Give it a try again.

The 'net is very congested today.

[EFerrari]

45. Will do. : )

[noamnety]

42. It's not that far-fetched

Nicholas Elizondo, Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

Richard Gardner, a Nevada State Representative (R), admitted to molesting his two daughters.

Jon Grunseth, Republican businessman and candidate for Minnesota governor, withdrew his candidacy after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

Paul Ingram, Republican Party leader of Thurston County, Washington, pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

Beverly Russell, County Chairman of the Christian Coalition, sexually molested his step-daughter, Susan Smith, who later drowned her two children.


I'm not sure why the initial post is deemed especially offensive. Lawmakers DO rape their daughters. I'm not suggesting they do it at a higher or lower rate than the rest of the population, but it's undeniable that it happens. Likewise, men that molest their daughters are apt to molest their granddaughters.

It's a pretty safe bet that this law will result in at least one man raping his daughter, and then raping the resulting child. It's not a stretch at all.

[Kelvin Mace]

44. I would love to do a serious

study of child abuse/rape/incest. I would bet a kidney that conservatives are by far the more frequent perps. Their sick and twisted view of sex just plays into such things.

[MountainLaurel]

53. An interesting flip to it

Regarding a link between victims and conservatism. I once read an interview with a convicted child molester in which he noted that he often targeted the children of strict, "conservative" parents, after watching parents and child interact within the neighborhood, at parks, etc. Why? Because these children had been taught (usually had it beat into them from an early age) to always obey adults and other authority figures, glommed on to any adult who showed them kindness, rarely had any knowledge about normal sexuality or how their bodies worked, had no sense that they were allowed to say no to unwanted behavior toward them, did not see their parents as willing to protect and believe them, and were scared to death of getting in trouble with their parents.

[femrap]

60. Well...there have been studies on homophobic men

(who are usually of the republican cloth) and they get much more sexually excited than non-homophobes when
looking at gay porn. I wish I had the damn link....sorry.

But it's all about 'thou dost protest too much......'

And regarding these states like S. Dakota and boycotting them......I think it would be better to find out what corporations are there and boycott those....I believe that Credit Card companies are headquarted in S.Dak. due to the usury laws. We could easily boycott a certain companies' credit cards! That would hit them in the pocketbook real fast!!!!

[depakid]

74. I agree

It's a statistical inevitability- if not in South Dakota, then in the various other states that will adopt laws like this once Casey is overruled- which it will be. (Planned Parenthood v. Casey is the controlling case- despite "common knowledge," Roe is no longer good law).

[BlueEyedSon]

56. That is so bad

I thought you were "tasteful"....!

:evilgrin:

[JustDoIt]

62. Incest exception is so necessary

If these bastards want to ban abortion, then they at least have to have an incest exception.

Incest results in really retarded kids a large percentage of the time.

[VelmaD]

63. I hope all the men on this site...

who told us over and over that we didn't have to worry because they'd never really try to outlaw abortion feel like the shit heels they are right now.

[Lars39]

68. Nice to see ya, VelmaD!

Sorry it's over this. :(
The men who should feel like that probably don't.

:hi:

[NaturalHigh]

83. Actually, many women continue to say over and over...

that abortion is none of a man's business. If that is the case, I've asked before, why should I make it a priority for me? Now, when everybody is panicking over South Dakota, we're expected to fight, fight, fight for abortion, but just last week it was none of a man's business.

[KoKo]

65. Mormon Bleed? into other states? Their attitude has "spilled?" n/t

[okieinpain]

77. actually I prey that they do end abortion. it will just hasten the mass

exodus from the midwest to the coastal areas, where most people will vote liberal/progressive. think about it with all of that red showing on the map of the US. Dems only need 17 seats in the house, and what 5 or 6 in the senate.

these nuts will push out their young by taking away peoples rights, and they will commit their own deaths.

[sarahlee]

78. Suggested economic protest

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=217x3294

[Katherine Brengle]

79. Harsh, but not out of line---

While this post is a little bit on the extreme side, I think the OP definitely has a point. This kind of thing does happen, and for the legislators in SD who voted for this law--what the hell made them think that it is in any way moral or right to force a girl/woman to give birth to the child of her abuser?

Something just isn't right there...

[smirkymonkey]

84. Because, if there were no children of incest, there would be no

legislature in South Dakota. It's personal with them.

[lulu]

85. Rape and incest are the female's fault

Didn't you know? It is women and girls who bring rape and incest on themselves. The innocent men are victims of a female's wiles. It's soooo obvious.
:sarcasm: