Schlosser jury: 'We are deadlocked' (mom who cut baby's arms off)

[rainbow4321]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html

Jurors considering the fate of Dena Schlosser, the Plano mother accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter, asked the judge several questions Thursday before indicating they are deadlocked.

In a note from the presiding juror, the jury of five women and seven men told state District Judge Chris Oldner that "no one is going to change their decision," but the judge told them to keep deliberating.


The panel deliberated more than nine hours Wednesday, returning to the courtroom in the late afternoon because the presiding juror had written two notes to the court.

<snip>

Linda Tucker, an alternate juror who was dismissed by the judge when the jury began deliberations, initially refused to comment as she left the courthouse. Just before she got in her car, she said she had not made a decision, but added, "I mean, do you want her back on the street?"

[revree]

1. How can you be deadlocked?

SHE KILLED HER CHILD!

[LostinVA]

12. All doctors agree she was psychotic

That shows she didn't murder the child. She should be treated and most probably put in an institution for life. But, like Andrea Yates, she was not responsible for her actions. People in this country are so uneducated about mental illnesses -- she was literally sick, living in a world of an alternated reality... but thinking it was real.

I experienced a drug-induced psychosis after I took Vicoden: I thought an invisible man was in my apartment wanting to kill me. I heard him breathing, walking around the room, coughing... I heard the knife he wore going in and out of the sheath. I felt him sit next to me -- I SAW the mattress hollow out when he sat. I felt his hands on my arm. This wasn't a bad trip, where I knew it wasn't real -- I thought it was real. Psychosis is a horrible thing.

[theoldman]

2. What's to decide?

Either she is nuts and needs to go to an asylum or she is sane and goes to prison. I suspect that the problem is in the charges that were filed.

[Yupster]

20. I was on a hung jury once

It was an armed robbery case. Gun to the head.

The first vote split 7-5 and we knew we were in trouble. Never got past 8-4 and were released.

Instead of retrying the case they ended up plea-bargaining and the guy got a few years in prison. Was interesting to see the reporting on tv after it the plea bargain. There was so much hat was part of the case that we didn't know about which I guess is pretty standard.

He was picked up hundreds of miles away using the lady's credit card but there were search and seizure issues involved so we weren't told about that. Also he had a history of being in prison for similar offenses which we also didn't hear about.

I agree about the past history not being included. I think it would be too easy for the jury to think that he did it six times before so he probably did it this time too.

[uppityperson]

3. Has to be proven, not do you think she did it. Add in "mental illness"

One of the problems and good things about trials is that they have to prove that someone did something, not just have the jurors think the person did. Decisions based on what evidence has been given, not on whether or not you think they did it. Add in mental illness proof and it can get really complicated. If this woman is a mentally ill as they seem to show, she needs to be locked up for medical reasons. Hard to say sometimes. True that no one in their right mind would do something like this, but that is an explanation, not an excuse and some sort of consequence needs to happen.

[rainbow4321]

4. More from the local paper:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16183388&BRD=1426&PAG=461&dept_id=528208&rfi=6

As of 5 p.m. Thursday, the jurors had been deliberating for a total of about 17 hours. That stands in contrast to a Fort Worth jury that needed less than two hours on Thursday to convict Stephen Barbee on charges of murdering ex-girlfriend Lisa Underwood and her 7-year-old son, Jayden, last February.

The Schlosser jury heard eight days of testimony to help them weigh the evidence to determine if Schlosser intentionally or knowingly caused the death of her 10-month-old daughter, Maggie, when she amputated her arms on Nov. 22, 2004.

The jury could also find her not guilty by reason of insanity. They will determine that issue based on finding that she had a mental disease or defect and did not know her conduct was wrong.

The prosecutor repeatedly questioned three days of psychiatric testimony in which every physician said Schlosser had a mental illness or defect and did not know right or wrong when she killed Maggie. Prosecutors agree she had a mental illness, but believed she did know right from wrong, a key fact the jury must determine.

[Poppyseedman]

5. Obviously, she is insane. No mother can do this and be sane

She should spend the rest of her life institutionalized.

Maggie Schlosser was killed in November 2004, her arms severed at the shoulders, just before Thanksgiving in the family's Plano apartment.

Ms. Schlosser, 37, has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. If jurors agree, Ms. Schlosser will be committed to North Texas State Hospital in Vernon for treatment. She would remain there until doctors and Judge Chris Oldner agree she should be released.

If she is convicted of capital murder, she will be sent to prison for life because prosecutors were not seeking the death penalty.

[Warpy]

6. ?She should spend the rest of her life institutionalized???"

Humane cultures in western Europe always consider the possibilty of postpartum psychosis in any maternal murder of a child under two. We have a long way to go catching up to them in terms of psychology and humanity.

Postpartum psychoisis is a temporary condition. If this is what the woman was suffering from, then she needs treatment. She can be cured and would be no threat to anyone, although it would be very unwise for her to go through another pregnancy. Knowing she murdered her own child while she was off her head would be punishment enoough.

I thought we'd moved beyond punishing sick people for being sick. I guess we haven't.

[Poppyseedman]

7. Though not an expert.. but

Postpartum psychoisis is a temporary condition.

Cutting off your own child's arms, I would think is more an a psychoisis. I'd put her away for life just to be safe.

[rainbow4321]

8. Update: Schlosser trial ends in hung jury (11-1)

The judge had sequestered the jury this weekend...

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/022506dnccoschlosser.21e9594e.html

The Dena Schlosser capital murder trial ended Saturday with a hung jury.

Collin County jurors — deadlocked since Wednesday — had deliberated more than 40 hours Saturday with one male member of the panel firmly against the other 11, refusing to change his mind.

A note to the court in the Dena Schlosser capital murder case indicates that one male juror has sided against the other 11 on the panel and refuses to change his mind.

The jurors, after spending a night sequestered in a motel, appeared grim and looked tired as they entered the courtroom to hear Judge Oldner read back Dr. Wu's testimony. Many wore jeans, a change from the previous 10 days of court. Although one man still wore a suit. One female juror rubbed her temples as the judge spoke.

[Richard Steele]

10. I'm going to just GUESS here:

11 members found her mentally insane,
and the lone holdout is a pro-punishment freeper-type
who wants her to fry.

[rainbow4321]

14. The county it happened in is one of the reddest in TX

One of the top 3 in the state...so there is a good chance that 11 in the 11-1 were the ones who wanted punishment and the "1" wanted her to go to the psych hospital. The hold was a guy, no name given yet, haven't seen him on the local news or anything.

[Richard Steele]

17. Call me an optimist, I suppose...

These days, it seems that I have to use my IMAGINATION
to keep hope alive, because the FACTS sure aren't doing it.

[Maru Kitteh]

21. Actually from what I hear on the news the holdout was a freeper type

The others wanted NG/insanity.

[RedOnce]

13. Excellent points well stated...

as usual.

I hate what she did to her child but postpartum psychosis is a reality and as you point out, temporary. She needs help.

[Maestro]

9. From what I understand

husband and pastor withheld or did not allow her access to medications to help her. This could have led to the horrific event. In fact, the pastor tesitified that he didn't believe that she needed meds.

[LostinVA]

11. And, the prosecutor basically said none of the doctors

knew what they were talking about -- that she wasn't psychotic. Even though ALL the doctors said so. Even though she was refused meds. Even though, even though...

[bmbmd]

18. He said it was caused by demon posession.

And it was ten in favor of the insanity verdict, two for the death penalty. People in Collin County, although they vote Republican, are not stupid or inhumane.

[Maestro]

19. So the hold out wanted the death penalty for

an insane lady? What a stupid M*&^$%#@!

[Disturbed]

15. Pastor should be charged with...

a felony: Depraved Indifference. A life term for being mentally ill is obscene.

[rucky]

16. And practicing medicine without a license.

Add Tom Cruise to the indictment, as well.