Vatican to Muslims - practise what you preach

[sabra]

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-02-23T174542Z_01_L2369100_RTRUKOC_0_UK-RELIGION-VATICAN-MUSLIMS.xml&archived=False

Vatican to Muslims - practise what you preach


PARIS (Reuters) - After backing calls by Muslims for respect for their religion in the Mohammad cartoons row, the Vatican is now urging Islamic countries to reciprocate by showing more tolerance towards their Christian minorities.

Roman Catholic leaders at first said Muslims were right to be outraged when Western newspapers reprinted Danish caricatures of the Prophet, including one with a bomb in his turban. Most Muslims consider any images of Mohammad to be blasphemous.

After criticising both the cartoons and the violent protests in Muslim countries that followed, the Vatican this week linked the issue to its long-standing concern that the rights of other faiths are limited, sometimes severely, in Muslim countries.

Vatican prelates have been concerned by recent killings of two Catholic priests in Turkey and Nigeria. Turkish media linked the death there to the cartoons row. At least 146 Christians and Muslims have died in five days of religious riots in Nigeria.

[jumpoffdaplanet]

1. The gall of the Vatican is unbelievable

They protect pedos for decades, and then have the nerve to preach at another religion?

[QC]

2. What did they say in this case that was wrong?

One would expect progressives to agree with the need to recognize the human rights of religious minorities.

[jumpoffdaplanet]

6. Progressives also don't let hyprocrites get away with crap.

When the vatican stops protect pedos, and this is something that happens from the top down, then they might be able to tell others what to do.

It's the grain of sand vs log thing.

[YOY]

4. are you even Catholic (or were you at any time?)

Just curious.

[tocqueville]

7. FYI the protestants are exactly in the same pedo boat

and if you read the article it's about the right to establish churches in any community.

see my posts here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=52116&mesg_id=52173

The automatic bashing of a whole community because of bias or ignorance is starting to get really disgusting.


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I never said that the cover up of the one EXCUSES the deeds of the others.

But the FACT is that as soon the world catholic shows up on DU, you can be sure of some "pedo" comment. The others are NEVER MENTIONED, they "DON'T EXIST", while in reality they are maybe even bigger predators since their lifestyle allows them even to predate not only on children, but on adults. And there the COVER UP IS TOTAL and even worse, when exposed, they go to court to FIGHT THE RIGHT TO BE EXPOSED AT ALL (I bet Alito is going to give them right, good Catholic as he is).

The position about child abuse in Church among many DUers is the example of a BLATANT DOUBLE-STANDARD or at least of ignorance. If you have to fight them, fight them ALL, but don't single a single group. Or else something is rotten.


Here are the links, there are more. Read and weep.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html

Sex abuse spans spectrum of churches

By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.
These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide.


CMR's annual surveys of about 1,000 churches nationwide have asked about sexual abuse since 1993. They're a remarkable window on a problem that lurked largely in the shadows of public awareness until the Catholic scandals arose.

The surveys suggest that over the past decade, the pace of child-abuse allegations against American churches has averaged 70 a week. The surveys registered a slight downward trend in reported abuse starting in 1997, possibly a result of the introduction of preventive measures by churches.

"I think the CMR numbers are striking, yet quite reasonable," says Anson Shupe, anIndiana University professor who's written books about church abuse. "To me it says Protestants are less reluctant to come forward because they don't put their clergy on as high a pedestal as Catholics do with their priests."

At least 70 incidents a week

_____________________________________________________

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rob_kall_051111...

Another problem within the Evangelical churches is they have tried to block laws requiring the reporting of sexual abuse cases, according to an article by Marci Hamilton, in Findlaw. She writes
"The evangelicals' argument, however, is that if a pastor must report known child abuse, then members won't confide in him. In other words, let the children suffer so the pedophile can speak to his pastor worry-free.

If we knew a lot less about childhood sexual abuse than we do now, this concern might carry some weight. But the truth is that religious groups have been horrendous at addressing child abuse when they learn about it. The balance between making sure ministers hear everything their members want to say and rescuing the children enduring child abuse is a no-brainer. The Catholic Church's infamous see-no-evil transfer-the-pedophile-elsewhere police is perhaps the most blatant example, but it is far from the only example, as new victims emerge on a regular basis.

There was a time when each religious institution stood for its individual beliefs in the public square, and fought what it believed was morally wrong - even if the moral wrong came from another religious institution. It seems that time is gone. One waits in vain for the religious institution that will stand up to either the Catholics or the evangelicals in these battles over much-needed changes to childhood sexual abuse laws. Their silence is deafening.

http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/priest_sexual_abuse_c...

A list of non-Catholic ministers charged in court with abuse is here. In this post Freudian world, sex scandal has hit many major institutions including, presidencies, public schools, and minor league sports. God save us.

The incidence of abuse by teachers is even more staggering, as a 1988 study reported in The Handbook on Sexual Abuse of Children reveals. It reported that "One in four girls, and one in six boys, is sexually abused by age 18." A 1991 study revealed that "17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. Fully 13.5 percent said they had sexual intercourse with their teacher,"

A survey by the Washington Post found that "Over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse." ...Dr. Thomas Plante, a psychologist at Santa Clara University, found that '80 to 90% of all priests who in fact abuse minors have sexually engaged with adolescent boys, not prepubescent children,'" the report continues, underscoring the fact that the ordination of priests with homosexual tendencies may be the real problem. ... In 2002, Christian Ministry Resources reported on national surveys they conducted which concluded that "Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant." Lifesite News, Feb 6 2004

http://www.reformation.com /

Welcome to a collection of news reports of ministers sexually abusing children:


ALL Protestant denominations - 838 Ministers

147 Baptist Ministers

251 "Bible" Church Ministers (fundamentalist/evangelical)

140 Anglican/Episcopalian Ministers

38 Lutheran Ministers

46 Methodist Ministers

19 Presbyterian Ministers

197 various Church Ministers




Happy now ?

[cigsandcoffee]

12. Thank you for posting this.

It's refreshing to see the horrible problem put in to perspective, and not just used as an avenue to nail the Catholic church to the wall.

[RDU Socialist]

9. how dare the vatican demand religious minorities be treated equal

:eyes:

they're right, muslim countries should respect religious minorities just as countries with a majority christian population should respect minority religions.

i love the immediate run towards pedophiles, because that's entirely relevant in a discussion on religious equality and fair treatment.

[ComerPerro]

3. Entire world to Vatican: You first

[tocqueville]

8. so the Muslim Fundies are "better" than the Cathos ?

I bet Evangelicals are best :sarcasm:

The Vatican is only saying that if Mosques can be built in the West, Churches can be built in Saudi Arabia. It's only fair.

Besides I'd be very careful to speak for the whole world. Because most Churches and seculars support the Vaticans principal stance of freedom of religion anywhere...

OH I forgot the catholics are always wrong, because they say practically the same stuff than the protestants, besides the fact that they are pedos, which the protestants are not ? or are they ?

amazing

[fujiyama]

10. Not the biggest fan of Catholocism

but as a non Christian, I'd be more likely to live in a Catholic majority nation than a Muslim majority nation.

[cigsandcoffee]

11. Indeed. Now that some are well in to liberalizing...

...there's a lot to be said for the freedoms of Catholic-majority countries. Ireland is a pretty good example. No Muslim-majority country that I can think of even comes close. Much of Islam has a long way to go toward liberalization, unfortunately.

[Ladyhawk]

14. No one suspects the Spanish Inquisition!

Muahahahahahahaha!

[fujiyama]

15. Hehe

I'm definetely not going to brush aside Christianity's own bloody history.

But I didn't say I would have liked to have lived in a Catholic majority country 600 years ago (I would likely have been slaughtered in the Crusades or the Inquisition!), but at this point in time, Islamic nations are not among the most tolerant places regarding freedom of religion.

That's really because there are few Christian Theocracies (OK, the US is heading there, but I still don't see the sort of restrictions on worship as that of Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Pakistan - to name just three)...Sure, most Latin American countries are offially Catholic, but even then, I don't believe a nation practices the equivalent of a Catholic Sharia Law.

[Ladyhawk]

16. True enough, but unless we continue to question fundamentalist

Christians (Catholic or otherwise), we could be heading back to that state of affairs. In my mind the only thing that separates a radical fundamentalist Muslim from a radical fundamentalist Christian is power. Power is given to Muslim fundies by the countries they live in. If America continues heading in its current direction, we'll be there shortly.

Having been a fundamentalist Christian, I know what these people want to do to America. You won't like it.

[fujiyama]

19. I agree completely

We must be vigilant against all fundamentalism.

[biscotti]

5. Ah organized religion,

ain't it grand. I was just reading an article from Nigeria.

snip:
ONITSHA, Nigeria - Christians in this southern Nigerian city burned Muslim corpses and defaced wrecked mosques Thursday after days of sectarian strife that has killed more than 120 people across the country.
With 80 people killed, Onitsha has borne the brunt of the violence that followed weekend protests over the publication of cartoons of the Muslim prophet Muhammad.
A Muslim district of about 100 homes was burned to the ground, and crumpled corrugated tin roofs lay on top of the remains of smoldering houses Thursday.
Ifeanyi Ese, a 34-year-old Christian, stood amid the concrete rubble of a mosque.
"We don't want these mosques here anymore. These people are causing all the problems all over the world because they don't fear God," he said.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/13936444.htm

[NMMNG]

17. Those couldn't have been *real* Christians

Real Christians don't behave that way, at least not in modern times. Only those radical Muslims do stuff like that. :sarcasm:

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Here's a craaaaazy idea: How about they ALL figure out how to "tolerate"

those of us who don't have any interest in existing inside the narrow confines of their theological Belief Systems and edicts?

[NMMNG]

18. Now that is a crazy idea

You obviously haven't been taking your meds.