Am I a bigot?

[Thirtieschild]

My husband says that my dislike of/disdain for/judgment of B*sh lovers is no different from a Klansman's attitude to African-Americans, that I leap to conclusions without knowing the whys, that I should judge people on their character, not their politics, that the only people who should be judged by their politics are politicians. I say that supporting B*sh after everything he's done is doing, to this country - to the world - says a lot about a person's character. Husband is worried that I'm going to torpedo his friendship with an ex-cop who supports B*sh, but who is also active, very active, in Habitat for Humanity. I'm puzzled because the two seem incompatible. Opinions?

[WinkyDink]

1. People's character IS reflected in their politics. Greed is as greed does.

[muntrv]

2. The Bush lovers

who vote are the ones who put Bush in power and they are the one pushing
for the U.S. military to be involved in the debacle in Iraq.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Do you personally know the ex cop?

If you do, and you think said cop is a jerk, then you are not a bigot because your conclusion is based upon personal experience. If you don't know the cop, try and meet him and listen to what he says, then make up your mind. Who knows, maybe talking with him will change his mind! Example:

My hubby works for a guy who in the past has thought Bush was wonderful-but then Cheney misused a gun (the guy is an avid hunter with high standards for safety), and then Bush sold the ports. Hubby gives him tidbits of information, and the guy is changing his mind!

[benburch]

4. Definition.

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own.

[sam sarrha]

27. so i am just prejudiced.. that is a relief.. i respect the ignorance of

others.. i try to explain to them about things like the Mexican exportation of their poverty to the United States in order to raise the standard of living in Mexico for the 'Have it alls' who have a standard of living 2nd only to France, and the cost to our country in education, medical care, wages, Jobs, cost of housing and safety and i always end i always end up being called a bigot..

i dont consider myself prejudiced when i discuss the elements of a serious problem they are intolerant to even acknowledge.. but then they have a secure job with a great retirement in a place where people dont tag your home, threaten your family with drive by shootings .. the city just closed all the parks.. fenced them up and locked them down.. my 80 yr old mother had to drive 25 miles to shop because the Mexican women would ram their shopping carts into the backs of her ankle's hard enough to knock her down, i actually saw a Mexican woman tell her 6year old child to push her cart into my mother.. i stepped in front of him just before he hit her with a heavy cart. i saw a mexican woman hit her with her with elbow as she walked by her and knocked her to the ground because the checker at walmart closed the register when that person was about 20 feet away, she apparently hated white women so much she struck an 80 year old woman to the ground because she felt slighted by the clerk..?? i went to my mother and helped her up and then chased the attacker into the parking lot.. she got away. groups of 8 to 12 Mexican me would chase her outside going into a store grabbing at her clothes just to scare her.

10% to 12% of the citizens of mexico have migrated here to raise the standard of living in mexico, the biggest financial industry in Mexico is the Migrants sending BILLIONS of dollars back to mexico from the United States

but i am a bigot.. when i am just trying to explain what is going on where i have to live.

[ClassWarrior]

5. People's politics are often a reflection of their character.

But I read an interesting article recently that posits the idea that many conservative Christians, for example, go that way because they find the lifestyle rewarding, not because of the politics it espouses. They're mostly uninterested in politics, therefore they simply follow the politics that comes prepackaged with the lifestyle.

This could explain your husband's friend.

http://www.alternet.org/story/32032

16-5.

NGU.

[sui generis]

6. he's right, but being republican IS a character flaw

so judge away!

People who blindly support authority and who attack anyone who doesn't support authority have greater tendency to be Republican, policemen, military men, authoritarians themselves.

The flip side of blindly supporting Bush (or any major authority figure) is that that you no longer have the stress or responsibility of observing the world around you and coming to your own conclusions. It's laziness.

So yes, he can be lazy, angry at liberals for questioning "authority", and support habitat for humanity all in the same breath.

[w13rd0]

7. Completely insane...

...your husband is a f'n idiot. No different? Hatred of bushbots is based on ideaology, something people are most certainly NOT born with. Don't torpedo opportunities, but never let a Bushbot get a pass on their typical tried and true methodology of lying and hating freedom. Ask your husband if we should also be tolerant of Nazis and terrorists? After all, those are just ideaologies.

The GOP and its talking heads have made no secret of their hatred of "liberals" and all those that do not support Bush. Many of them have advocated that harm or death come upon us. The only reason we aren't doing an Iraq and bombing the shit out of each other is because we're f'n lazy.

[rucky]

8. "Judge people not by the color of their skin...

but by the content of their character." (MLK paraphrased)

The right doesn't understand this concept & that's why they continue to follow these crooks.

[Warpy]

9. The ex cop who supports Habitat for Humanity is probably

supporting Stupid for the macho swagger image. He's a good guy at heart, but he's a sucker for ad campaigns.

Just use the word "unchristian" to describe Stupid's policies whenever you can. That's the kind of thing that might break through the propaganda shield.

[Armstead]

10. People do have three dimensions

Nobody's perfect. We all have character flaws. And different ideas of what a "flaw" is.

Regarding your question, I'd have to say yes it is somewhat bogoted if you base your opinions and interactions with people solely on their political position.

I know people who are great individuals, but who support Bush. I don't like that about them, if it's appropriate I'll argue about it with them. But I don't judge them solely by their political views. Not do they judge me solely on what they peceive as my character flaw of being a liberal and critic of Bush.

There is also a difference between someone who may be a Bush Republian, and someone who is a total Freeper, who judges all things "liberal" as evil. They are bigoits in the opposite direction.

[ClassWarrior]

12. Amen.

16-5.

NGU.

[Catherine Vincent]

11. You husband must be a closet * supporter.

[InsultComicDog]

13. He exaggerates

but in my opinion one should never limit their friends and acquaintances on the basis of who they voted for.

[Greyhound]

14. Prejudiced, yes. Bigoted, no. Prejudice is just a result of experience,

It is true that reasonable people can disagree on issues and still be good people, but in light of the heinous crimes committed by this cabal, anybody that still supports them has some serious defect.

[seabeyond]

15. i have only repugs in my life. i love them all. we are connected

i take care of them. i give, we are family. unconditional. and........ i know them. they are well worth loving. as they equally love me unconditionally. it is in this love, that i continually and will always challenge their nonthinking conditioned response.

i am not a bigot. i dont hate. and there is not a single person i know that challenges repug think more than i

[BootinUp]

16. Caring people can be

ignorant of the facts. Cut the Bush supporters some slack, the facts are starting to wear on them now, and lies can not be believed as easily. This is the time to win converts.

[emulatorloo]

17. A lot of Bush voters have no idea what Bush really stands for:Please Read:

University of Maryland PIPA did a survey of Bush voters before the election -- the whole thing is worth reading, but just look at this example I've snipped.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/20263

<snip>

In particular, majorities of Bush supporters incorrectly assume that he supports multilateral approaches to various international issues, including the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (69 percent), the land mine treaty (72 percent), and the Kyoto Protocol to curb greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to global warming (51 percent).

In August, two-thirds of Bush supporters also believed that Bush supported the International Criminal Court (ICC). Although that figure dropped to a 53 percent majority in the PIPA poll, it's not much of a drop considering that Bush explicitly denounced the ICC in the first, most widely watched presidential debate in late September.

<snip>

[sam sarrha]

20. Over the Rainbow.. the little man behind a curtian... who is a puppet of

big fat man.

[Norquist Nemesis]

18. Actually, the Habitat and Con isn't inconsistent from the POV

that Cons see Habitat as the way things should be done...in other words, it's not the government taking money from his pocket. It's his choice to participate. Also, he sees the family benefitting putting in work vs. getting something for free.

Not saying I agree with that because I don't think of Government assistance as 'getting something for free'. But that's probably where he's coming from. :shrug:

[sam sarrha]

19. these people are deceived and ignorant of the truth.. some are in it just

for the money.. hate them, pity the rest..

but ultimately the ignorant minions loosed Hitler and Stalin, Mao, Ronal Reagan, Bu$h Sr and Bu$h Jr onto the world

so they do have responsibility ultimately..

but.. this is Samsara and they is what happens here, the goal is to personally reach Nervana in spite of it all, then with the Skillful Means of a Liberated being you can return and do something to help the 'others'

quote from Mark Twain when asked what the purpose of life was..

'the purpose of life is to help others, however what the others
are here for i have not a clue':shrug:

[poverlay]

21. I am too. I've been struggling with a hatred of Bush supporters since

before the '04 election. This effects my relationship with family and long time friends.

The question is this. If, by maintaining my friendship with them, I implicitly condone the criminal acts supported by these people, how can I live with myself? I've come to discover that if these people aren't going to constantly seek the truth, and live by the "Christian" values (All of them.), that they so piously espouse, then they aren't worth the relationship. Some compassion is in order, because fear and ignorance is usually the hallmark of these people.

I believe it's the stench of their bigotry that makes us uncomfortable in their presence.

Good Luck

[bunkerbuster1]

22. Oh, right. Hating Bush is EXACTLY like the KKK's domestic terrorism.

Your husband needs to be dumped.

<on edit>

Ok, if your hubby is really so very worried about jeapordizing a friendship with a decent-enough conservative, just remind him that an intense dislike for this Administration is in no way comparable to the century-long reign of terror against America's best and brightest by the KKK.

When conservative republicans are afraid to walk the streets of left-leaning cities for fear of being lynched, then MAYBE that comparison won't be so fucking offensive.

[Occulus]

23. Absolutely not.

You are right to fear and avoid- or plot against and halt- those supporting *. He and his are a demonstrable, real threat to this country and "the American way of life." Calling such 'bigotry', just as it does when applied to the port sales, plays right into their hands, and for the exact same reasons.

Supporting * does say a lot about the character of a person, but it's still an either/or proposition until one gets to know them. For example, a * supporter may be against policy xyz- if only they knew about it. Unfortunately, media consolidation has placed influence over many major outlets into the hands of a comparative few people (all very rich), increasing the chance that Republican influences will take hold. Our own party in some respects happily helped, and not entirely unknowingly, with that last.

These people and the Wraith worshipers on the SciFi channel's "Stargate Atlantis" would get along just fine.

My mom tells me "people like that have always been around." Well, maybeso, maybeno; certainly they have never before been as enabled to do as they will as they are today. Who would have thought in 2000 that we would be this deep in the shitter by this time? Can anyone say honestly that they figured it would get this bad?

To say that defense of a person's very way of life is "bigotry" is just silliness, frankly. Anyone who supports policies which, taken together, suggest the existence of a broader intent to actually cause harm just does not deserve to call themselves "Americans."

"Amerikans" is a better word for them.

edited to add: the above is meant to apply for the most part to those 31%ers who will support * no matter what. They're where the whole port sale bigotry angle is actually coming from. Along a similar vein, in Ohio, the bill addressing heterosexual marriages sarcastically proposed by an Ohio Democrat were called by Republicans "divisive". Do as I say, not as I do, and it's okay if you're a Republican. Typical of the mindset we're dealing with....

And finally, silliness: DAISNAID- Do As I Say, Not As I Do. Lovely. :silly:

[ProfessorGAC]

24. That's Ridiculous

You are disdaining them for what they believe, the actions they take in support of those beliefs, and their actually rhetoric.

That is completely different than holding preconceived notions about someone because of race, nationality or sexual preference.

Your husband is comparing apples and oranges, and that's being generous. Your opinion of those folks is based upon what THEY say they want and believe. There is absolutely zero correlation.
The Professor

[Virginian]

25. Faithful Republicans, Logical Democrats.

My brother is a Bush supporter and he isn't stupid (just unwise). He keeps coming up with reasons to support him and excuses for what Bush does that he doesn't like. It is more of an emotional thing. I know that I can never make him change his mind and I have to ignore that part and love the rest of him. He is a Viet Nam vet and the picture of Jane Fonda at the Podium with John Kerry, even though it wasn't real, struck a part of him that is beyond logic. I can only guess what kind of Pavlovian conditioning he has experienced to see her as the devil incarnate. The Neo-cons have played on this and have reinforced it into his very being. With him, it isn't that he won't change his mind, it is that he can't.

Just my perspective...

[insane_cratic_gal]

26. Perhaps he's right

Disdain is our own choice. I try to accept each individual on the biases of individuality. I try hard to not blanket hatred upon a sect of people because it does feel a bit like prejudice. Your husband must love you a great deal to point that out, it must of hurt you to hear that. But the mere courage it takes to ask what you did, makes you not a bigot, only angry.

We as liberals are suppose to take the high road, be more tolerant. Tolerance and liberal over the centuries have gone hand and hand.

I've recently started to examine Buddhism, their ideas and patterns of thinking. Can I press these words of advice upon you?

"Tolerance is also a discipline. It implies a willing choice to turn away from all the many possible acts of revenge, harm, and violence." ---Dalai Lama

Buddhist teach that harboring hatred is like thrusting a sword into front of your belly in order to stab someone standing behind you.

Holding resentment doesn't enforce change upon someone, they either will see the light on their own, or they will not. Why not try and gently listen to his ideas, press your upon him without holding to hope that he'll come around to your way of thinking.

I understand how you feel I have to neighborers, that I love. One is very christian, the other is a Single Dad and a Bush fan. I've come to accept that it is them who must live with the guilt and doubt of electing such a tyrant. It is true that I have to suffer under the Bush Administration's thumb, I have the free conscience knowing I didn't place him there. But they are also more then their mistakes, and misinformation, they are human beings with ideas different then my own.

Remember too, All totalitarian systems come to an end sooner or later. In the history of a country, democratic forces sooner or later have their day.

Why not test your strength of character and join this man's Habitat for humanity group? Work along side him, maybe he is on your path for a reason? Perhaps you have something to teach him, and he you?

[Thirtieschild]

33. Thanks for the insight

I have recently joined a group meeting once a week to study Tibetan Buddhism. We are working with anger, and I find all my anger directed at the Administration, and that the source of it lies in a feeling of helplessness, which must mean I'm not doing as much politically as I should. The essence of these teachings is that we should have compassion for the perpetrator as well as for the victim. It's hard. I'll think I've dealt with the anger until I see a car with a W/04 sticker and my scalp crawls.

As for the ex-cop, I know him and like him. I don't get neo-con vibes from him, which is what prompted my husband's lecture that I don't know what is in his heart so shouldn't judge. BTW, Husband voted for Bush in 2000, for Kerry in 2004. Iraq turned him around.

[insane_cratic_gal]

34. That's something!

Perhaps he just is on your path for a reason. It's wonderful that your politically active, tibetan Buddhism does instruct that we have a duty to act, making use of the means available to us.

Perhaps you could directly ask him why honestly and frankly with out contempt.

I did so with my neighbor one day, asking her why she would vote for such a horrible being. I listened quietly and attentively, she felt he was morally superior at the time. I think a lot of her ideas have changed, I only hope my direction of pointing things out gently was part of that process. I didn't do it for the party, I did it has a mean to relate to another human being.

We sometimes fail to see that behind our anger, fear, political divides and different ideas we are all human beings at the end of the day.


I think it's great that you have strived a lot further for yourself and your open to the possibility. You look at yourself with a critical eye! If we only did more of that, what a better place this world would be.

[sam sarrha]

28. its called 'Invalidation', they have to invalidate you because they cant

really justify what they believe with out shame or admitting they are wrong .. it is all due to the fallacy of the nature of the mind to identify with the 'Self/ego', which does not inherently exist, or even 'actually' exist..

that is why when one does not operate under the influence of a 'Self identity or group/church=tribe' those that do appear so mentally ill..

[adwon]

29. No

Two thoughts on this:

1. The Klan hated people for, using word very loosely, innate differences. Your dislike of Bush supporters is, hopefully, based on their actions. Hating people for what they are is silly, but hating people for who they are is understandable. Again, I'm using the word 'hate' really loosely (encompassing dislike, etc). After all, you are judging people based on what they do in life, not the pecularities of genetics.

2. Unless you're out nightriding and burning something (Reagan effigies?), this is an extremely bad analogy. This isn't apples and oranges, it's more like comparing an uzi to a banana.

[Malikshah]

30. IT's an old line used--

If you're against the KKK and don't want to do business with them, etc. then you're no better than them -- this old line is what infuriates me most.

My response is that their actions remove them from societal norms. They need to be brought back--in most cases through public reprobation, shaming, etc.

And, of course--the old All it takes for evil to win is for good folks to keep silent

[TahitiNut]

31. Pure sophistry. If that's his definition of bigotry, then he hasn't the

... slightest comprehension of what constitutes bigotry ... or prejudice. Bigotry is prejudice in action - acting against a person who, by virtue of their ethnicity, religion, or gender is regarded as inherently less capable or less 'human' than others. By definition, prejudice is making such a judgment of an individual BEFORE knowing about that individual's abilities and attitudes. It is NOT prejudice to regard active members of the KKK as racists, even without knowing them individually! It is NOT prejudice to regard Nazis as sociopaths. People who voted for and support Bush* are clearly in these camps - sociopaths and fascists. That they're banal does not counter this conclusion - such evil has become banal, which is tragic.

[Brewman_Jax]

32. You probably dislike

the hyperbole and hypocrisy of these...people. The ex-cop works for Habitat, but votes for policies that wouldn't provide assistance to those people that need it, and doesn't mind wealthfare (gov't assistance for the rich and corporations). I've never been able to reconcile that. For me, I don't keep 'em around. I find that I enjoy the peace a lot better.

[VOX]

35. Our country is in trouble...BIG trouble.

It's not just a lack of leadership, but it's lying, cheating, stealing, kiling, cronyism, etc., etc. The right wing is plunging all of us into a desperate situation.

To want to speak out against such a clear and present danger is NOT bigoted. No more than if you cried for help on a sinking ship.

On edit: Bushbots (regardless of their motivation), by supporting their "god incarnate," are enabling the ruin of everything we hold dear! :grr:

[applegrove]

36. You dislike them for their actions.. not because of who they are. If

someone took away all the actions Bush & Co. does to you and your country. You wouldn't care at all about them.