Abuse rattles Indian call centre staff

[varun]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4738804.stm

Shane Fernandes in Mumbai was recently speaking to a customer in the US about a credit card scheme.

He thought he had won over the customer, but just at the last minute the American learnt the young, sweet-talking agent was calling from a call centre in India.

"He just refused to deal with me because he found out I was an Indian," recollects Mr Fernandes...

...Mumbai-based lawyer Vinod Shetty, who formed the collective, says most of the abuses reflect the frustrations of the jobs being shifted to India.

"Mostly they say Indians are dirty and that they don't have brains and they are illiterates," he says.

"Sometimes, the abuses reflect their prejudices and anger at job losses ."

...

[Mythsaje]

1. This is regrettable...

since I've found most Indians to be rather pleasant people. Of course, I usually don't deal with them either, simply because I find it very difficult to communicate with them unless they have excellent command of the English language.

Such anger is understandable, but, as I said, the abuse is regrettable.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. The return of the "Ugly American".

[liberalhistorian]

5. I disagree. I agree that such abuse is

uncalled for and inexcusable, but it really is understandable, in a way. I'm a very calm, reasonable, peaceful person, but even I've found myself getting really hot under the collar and having to restrain myself when dealing with a lot of these calls. A lot of it has to do with simply just not being able to understand them at all, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that too many Americans are losing their jobs to these people. It's not their fault, of course, and the anger should be directed toward the American companies that have betrayed their citizens, but it's certainly more than understandable.

What I get tired of is their whining about being abused and mistreated all the time. First of all, I don't think it's nearly as bad as they say, and secondly, they should be thinking of all the Americans who've lost jobs and can't find any others.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. "Understandable" isn't an excuse for racism.

It was "understandable" why rednecks torched churches and shouted "Nigger" at little girls integrating grade schools. They're whole way of life was threatened by integration.

"Dirty Indians" is no less a racist remark than "Lazy Mexicans" or "Greedy Jews".

[liberalhistorian]

9. I didn't say it was an excuse,

and once again, I strongly condemn such abuse. There are better ways to express frustration.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. yes racism is perfectly understandable so long as people are losing

their jobs/women/safety or whatever the current perceived threat is

[Yollam]

100. No, it's not. But hostility is.

I've hung up on Indian call center workers, and I've gotten very short with them because they can't always help me with what I need because they are halfway around the world, but I've never called them a racial slur, or even called them a name. But dealing with them can be annoying.

[Orsino]

187. Probably more accurate to call it nationalism.

Our own failing economy has us grasping for explanation, and blaming whole countries is becoming more common.

I've had different, but related feelings, myself. I support domestic and international Internet customers, and have gotten a little depressed when an English-speaking customer tells me, "let me put my tech on the phone," and that tech speaks English as a third language. Not xenophobic, mind you--just taken aback at how common this ocurrence is.

As much as I love diversity, it's a bit frightening to see us becoming a land of do-nothings who must pay furriners to do our thinking.

[mitchum]

199. Or even more accurate to call it concern for the American Labor Movement..

which was once a bedrock of the Democratic Party

[Orsino]

200. That's the most benign form, yeah...

...though I suspect that the abusive call that began the thread came from someone who knows little or nothing about the Movement. Just an ordinary American who only knows that he feels threatened, and whom neither party will protect.

[nemo137]

208. I'm going to argue that it is.

There's a theory in sociology called the Split Labor Market theory, which basically tells us that when you have low-status jobs (call center workers) done by a low power group (foreign workers), and you also have economic troubles among another group (pretty much all Americans), you're going to see some tensions between those groups.

Is it right? No, of course not. But it's a explainable, fairly predicatable phenomenon.

[Yollam]

11. The only "Ugly Americans" are the CEOs who hire Indian SCABS.

That is what they are. Low-wage replacements for AMERICAN workers.

Some callers may be bigoted, but that's quite irrelevant. They shouldn't have to be talking to operators in India in the first place. I happen to think pretty highly of Indians myself, but it never fails to infuriate me when one of them answers my call in an obvious accent, claiming to be named "Tiffany". Indian call-center flacks may be innocent victims in this, but at least they are getting paid (fairly high wages by Indian standards, BTW), unlike the Americans they replaced.

If the "bigotry" of American callers bothers them so much, I strongly suggest that they all stand up and quit to show solidarity with working people in America, rather than acting as scabs.

[Bridget Burke]

19. Indian workers are often forced to take Western names.

Working conditions in call centers are not that great. Where's a good source for wages in the typical call center? Here's an article dealing with Wipro's call center employees:

Both Sameer and Kharbanda clearly see the need for a principled effective trade union as a way of winning workers’ rights. Many of the issues, from working hours, breaks, and pay discrepancies, are collective grievances, prompting a collective response. But very few Indian IT outsourcing companies recognize unions, partly due to client hostility, but also because many young Indian workers see established Indian unions as self-serving and powerless.

Consequently, the Union Network International, UNI, is working to bring Indian call center workers together. Under this initiative, the brainchild of UNI Asia regional secretary Chris Ng, a nucleus of activists are placing weekly advertisements in the call center job sections of the New Delhi press, urging call workers to come forward and discuss their issues.

The idea is to build for a conference later this year to found a New Delhi chapter of UNI’s Centre for BPO Professionals, the UNI-led staff association already functioning in Hyderabad and Bangalore. CBPOP aims to counsel, support and represent individual call center workers in the short term and secure negotiating rights with major employers in the long run.

But according to Chris Ng, international support is crucial. Urging unions in the U.K. and U.S. to come on board, he says: “An effective Indian call center workers’ union would not just benefit Indian workers; it would also boost the rights of call center workers in the West.

www.washtech.org/news/industry/display.php?ID_Content=4906

"Scabs" take jobs from Union workers. Did the Unions of the displaced Americans workers fight offshoring? Are they planning to work with the Unions offshore? Oh--the Americans don't care for Unions, either. Workers around the world can only get what they need by organization & cooperation.

I can understand why some Americans would rather abuse call center employees than deal with the corporate pigs who make the decisions. Those Ugly Americans are impotent little racist twerps.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. How much do you want to bet that as soon as Indian workers are

unionized, their jobs will be moved to say, Nigeria or Burma or some other former British colony with a lower standard of living?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. ohh puhlease...did the west do anything about the disappearing

middle class in india? why should they care about the loss of jobs here...do we lose any sleep over the poverty in india?

the world sees us throw billions into a war...while we do give little humanitarian aide...the world cares less since we care less.

[Yollam]

92. They can care or not care, that's up to them.

But if they want to take Americans' jobs (and they're well aware that that's what they are doing), then they should not be surprised at the resentment it provokes.

Personally, I wouldn't care if every single caller berated the operators to the point that they all walked out in exasperation. Whatever would result in an end to an anti-American policy, I would favor it.

You have point in that people in the rest of the world have no reason to worry about the plight of the American worker, but I'm an American, I'm here.

And from where I stand, I see that the bottom half of us are suffering, and the bottom third are destitute, and our companies are only making it worse by shipping jobs overseas to people who frankly, do not understand American colloquialisms, are often hard to communicate with and are unable to help with customers' problems because they are halfway around the world.


An still the rich white captains of US multinationals line their pockets while American workers get poorer, and Indian call workers make a quick buck, at least until rents and prices get so high in Bangalore, that they have to demand better wages, and then the companies will again shove off to cheaper shores - perhaps some poor African nation where folks speak good English.

This is not sustainable economic policy. It treats human beings as mere commodities to be bargained for, and makes job security a thing of the past.

It's incumbent on the US government to protect American jobs, but they've abdicated that role and let the corporations run amok. Maybe the Indians will understand those irate callers' feelings when it happens to them.

[Maru Kitteh]

103. One thing you said here speaks a loud truth that needs to be heard again

"This is not sustainable economic policy. It treats human beings as mere commodities to be bargained for, and makes job security a thing of the past."


So true. I'm reminded of the scene from Independence Day where the President has just been given insight into the aliens intentions (substitute multi-national corporations here) - to use every single resource available until it's exhausted and then move on.

The difference of course is that in the movie, our president actually gave a shit.

[sasquatch]

114. How's any of that our problem, responsibility or fault

It's like blaming the east for the 30 years war, doesn't make any sense because they're completly unrelated.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

131. well blaming indians for being responsible to me is equally ridiculous

your jobs. your political leaders. your economic decisions. how is this anyone else's fault?

[sasquatch]

151. Then why does it upset you when people refuse to do business w/Indians

I refuse to buy shit from Wal-Mart, does that make me anti-Chinese because the Chinese make all their stuff.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

165. dont do business with the companies that outsource jobs. thats fine.

infact i think its a great thing.


however abusing call center workers and using racial slurs is racist.

[liberalhistorian]

166. Good point!

It's getting harder and harder to find affordable goods actually made in this country, especially at Wally World. That's not the workers' fault, that's the fault of Wally World and the other greedy multinational corporations.

Hi Sasquatch, haven't seen you for awhile! :hi:

[sasquatch]

185. I've been around

:hi:

[tenshi816]

159. Disappearing middle class?

If anything, the reverse is true. India's middle class is growing in leaps and bounds as the Indian economy expands. Yes, there is huge poverty in India, but the middle class is in no way disappearing.

Here's an article about it: http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501041206/two_indias_vpt_das.html

Edited to fix link.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

163. now its growing...but in the 80's it had shrunk into nothingness

thats what i was referring to.

[tenshi816]

174. You're right about that.

I backpacked through India in 1987. Everybody seemed to be either very well off or starving, but not much in between at the time.

[burythehatchet]

70. That is one of the most ignorant, ridiculous, callous

and bigoted statements I've had the displeasure to read on this board. If you're a liberal, you're having an identity crisis.

[Yollam]

89. Please explain to me how it's bigoted.

Poor people who willingly participate in and perpetuate "the race to the bottom" are acting in poor conscience, whether they be Call Center workers in India, or idiots who buy mountains of plastic crap in China. In the long run it impoverishes workers in all countries and only enriches the white elites who own the multinationals.

I haven't the slightest doubt of where I stand. I realize that Indians who take these jobs do so because of economic pressures and the desire for a middle-class life, but they are well-educated enough to know that they are displacing American workers by taking those jobs and should not be surprised at the resentment it causes.

They are not ultimately responsible, but they do bear some of the blame, as do US consumers and stockholders who demand that companies operate in such a sleazy way.

[Dorian Gray]

137. Yollam...

if the jobs are there, why would they be thinking of anything other than taking a job that they were qualified for? I think your statements are made out of some sort of theoretical ideal (a mistaken one) that couldn't possibly exist in the practical world.

I've worked for foreign companies in the USA, and I never once considered that I may be taking jobs away from people in the country of origin for that company. It never once occurred to me. I just believed that I was qualified for the position in which I was working, and that it paid my bills.

[Yollam]

149. Uh huh...

If you took a job that was exported here by a foreign company that was trying to save by exploiting a cheaper American work force, then yeah, in a sense, you were being a scab, too. But that's not as common a reason for foreign companies doing business in the US as it is in India, is it?

Maybe to you, the idea that workers in different countries with different economies of scale shouldn't be pitted against each other and exploited to continually drive down labor costs is theoretical and mistaken, but it's not to me. There is a movement toward worldwide labor solidarity, however weak, and it's constantly being sabotaged by corporate interests who would rather we all believe that this is how it's always been and always will be, and that there's nothing to do to change it, but some of us still take it seriously.

Like the Japanese union dock workers who refused to unload a ship a few years ago in support of striking dock workers on THE US WEST COAST. If everybody around the world would actually make it their business to be informed and do what they could to hold the line against corporate slave-trading, it would be a revolutionary change. Not that I'm putting all that on the Indians - it will take a majority of working people around the world standing together to do it.


I don't blame you or the Indians for doing what you have to to pay your bills. I have to do it too. But if there was a goddamn labor movement to join, I'd do it. But everyone's given up and decided to settle for their $8, 10, 12 per hour and crappy HMO healthcare. I don't have the answer, but it sure as hell isn't just going with the flow, in this case.

[fujiyama]

146. If Americans don't care about workers in other countries

why should they care about American workers?

Look, the US set this system of globalization up and these countries are playing the same game. Whether you call it exploitation, a new form of colonialism, a race to the bottom, or whatever. It's up to the US government to provide for Americans.

Indians, Chinese, and Mexicans, and whomever else taking "American" jobs don't have any responsibility for having these jobs. They don't deserve any blame. The corporations offered them these jobs. They pay relatively well and it provides them with a middle class life. American shareholders and corporations do. They're the ones that took the jobs overseas.

I'm sorry, but most people the world over only care about themselves - whether it be Americans, Indians, Chinese, or whomever. There is no international brotherhood of workers, as much as neo Marxists want to believe. Very few tech jobs here were unionized anyways.

I don't blame you being upset. Hell I got a degree in a field where jobs can be outsourced and finding a job is no cakewalk. I find it frustrating, but I know whose reponsibility it is - extremely shortsighted multinational (since when are these companies "American") corporations that don't understand they are shooting themselves in the foot by killing a wealthy market here in the US.

It's time though that these corporations train these people to be less sensitive and warn them about the bitterness back here in the states. They have to toughen up and realize that when you grow any wealthier, and especially if you live in the "third world" (pretensious Western phrase of looking down on brown and black folks) and gain a better living, resentment grows.

If you want outsourcing to end, stop electing politicians that allow it to happen. If you believe these corporations are American then work toward getting elected officials that will crack down on such companies.

Everything said, racism cannot be excused, should not be tolerated, and this harrasement of workers really is rather juvenile.

[Dorian Gray]

168. Agree...

I think that it's important to NOT blame the people taking these jobs who are getting a better living than what they are afforded by previous employment opportunities.

It is a problem that so many jobs are being outsourced, but at the same time, to abuse the Indian workers in any way (especially in racist terms) is an unforgivable reaction to that frustration. It's beyond inexcusable.

Ideally, I'd like to see all workers in this world compensated fairly and humanely for a full day's work.

[Yollam]

189. I don't disagree with most of what you say...

"It's time though that these corporations train these people to be less sensitive and warn them about the bitterness back here in the states. They have to toughen up and realize that when you grow any wealthier, and especially if you live in the "third world" (pretensious Western phrase of looking down on brown and black folks) and gain a better living, resentment grows. "


But I don't think Americans are resentful of brown people abroad doing well. It's the fact that WE are falling into poverty that's making them mad. Honestly, how we can have 40+% of the population not affording health insurance and still call ourselves a "wealthy nation" with a straight face - it boggles my mind.

[fujiyama]

204. Ultimately

most of us here are on the same page, or atleast close...There are a few willing to excuse racism (not necessarily you) as a means to stop outsourcing, but not only would that be morally wrong, but ineffective as well.

When a nation starts outsourcing just about everything, it's not sustainable econominally. A nation obviously needs jobs to survive, and preferably well paying skilled jobs. We can all agree on that. The main problem is determining the status of multinational corporations in the first place. This opens an entire can of worms over globalization in general.

The system is showing a lot of weaknesses - from outsourcing, to drug patents, to agricultural subsidies...Either globalization is fixed or it will collapse, leading to a bigger disaster. The US government is capable of doing something, but unless it is willing to break from the corporate line, nothing will be done.

[sasquatch]

112. No it wasn't

I read his statement and it wasn't bigoted by any means. I think you've been reading too much Tom Freidman lately.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

160. Liberals are racists and xenophobes and anti-worker?

[Toucano]

102. Return? When did he ever leave? n/t

[liberalhistorian]

3. "Sometimes, the abuses reflect their prejudices and anger at job losses"

Gee, ya think? No fucking kidding. And maybe frustration at having to deal with people you cannot understand, no matter how pleasant they are.

That being said, I agree that the abuse is regrettable and inexcusable.

[Warpy]

4. What, they expected gratitude for taking US jobs?

While I regret the racist rhetoric, I certainly understand the frustration behind it. Not only is the US economy being badly damaged by the destruction of the consumer class through offshoring of white collar jobs, people in Indian boiler rooms are often very difficult to communicate with, even though their command of English may be excellent. The accent gets in the way for a lot of people who have never been exposed to it.

At some point the multinationals have got to be taught the lesson that they can't stripmine the US forever, and that they're going to have to start employing people in the US to do customer service for the US. Anything that gets the point across, like having high turnover in India because of witless abuse, is fine by me, although I would change the rhetoric if I could.

[liberalhistorian]

6. Well-said, my point, exactly.

And I think many American companies are starting to get the message, as their customer base shrinks due to anger and frustration over outsourcing and the lack of customer service. I tell multinationals when I deal with them over the phone that I simply cannot understand them and I would prefer speaking with an American representative. I make clear that it's nothing against them, and I'm very polite, but I simply cannot understand them and it's a waste of my time.

[varun]

10. American = White?

There are many Americans with heavy accents too. I cannot understand some "southern" accents.

[liberalhistorian]

16. No, I wasn't saying that

"American=white", not at all. The difference between Americans with accents and Indians and other multinationals with accents is that the Americans with accents speak English and are far more understandable. It's not the foreign workers' faults that they're hard to understand, but it's incredibly frustrating and infuriating, especially when you've spent money on the AMERICAN company's products and can't get any "customer service" rep from that company that you can actually understand. A

nd a lot of companies are finding out just how frustrated and angry American customers are and they're finding that the cons and the loss of customers outweighs the supposed economic benefits of outsourcing.

[FlaGranny]

172. Not to go off topic too much

but have you ever been through the Atlanta airport? I forget it's name. The few times I was there I was never able to understand ANY announcement over the PA system.

[LiberalEconomist]

12. Excuse Me!!!!!!

You are NOT entitled to any job. We are not operating under socialism. Fascism, yes, but Socialism, no. You don't want to do business with these companies? Fine!! However, I will not tolerate anyone who "understands" racism. Anyone who "understands" racism is a fucking racist himself, as far as I am concerned.

[liberalhistorian]

18. If a person has the degree, experience,

knowledge, skills, and willingness to work, then of course they are entitled to a job before any foreign worker. I'm sorry, but it's just that simple.

[laheina]

79. I agree!

And as a person that believes in voting with my wallet--I don't do business with outsourcers. Once the profit incentive goes away, the corps will stop doing it. We all need to take responsability for this situation and stop passively supporting it.

Calling someone names and making baseless generalizations about them based on culture is always inexcusable, but having worked in customer service and tech support for years, I can tell everyone that assholes are part of the job no matter where you are.

[indie_voter]

94. Me too. I am an American of Indian Origin AND an engineer

I've been outsourced by the country of my ancestors and it pisses me off as much as it does any other American.

HOWEVER, for people to say "they" shouldn't take american jobs is ludicrous.

It isn't the worker who is at fault, but corporations. Too many people are driven by the bottom line and don't pay attention to long term interests.

We are exporting intellectual property (IP). Our corporations get short term profit gain but long term losses when other countries steal our IP.

Outsourcing hurts us and it needs to stop.

[Maru Kitteh]

104. I agree with you there! The people who stomp their feet and say somebody

else is not "entitled" to their job are always people who either feel secure in their own, had no dire need for one to start with, profit from your loss or just plain have not been out there yet - a.k.a. academic bubblitis.

[fujiyama]

148. Ideally that would be the case

if these were AMERICAN companies. Since when were multinational companies loyal to any one country? Why should we be naive enough to believe that these companies had Americans' (or any workers' best interests in mind)?

We are NOT entitled to these jobs. According to the laws as they stand (and international treaties and organanization OUR government pushed for), what these companies are doing is completely legitimate. The US is reaping all it has sown. Unfortunately, it bites normal everyday people, like you and I in the ass, but hey that's our government for you - for the wealthy, by the powerful, and of the elite.

[LoZoccolo]

157. Refusing to do business with companies who outsource...

...is very capitalist. He's talking about exercising his rights under capitalism.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. rofl!

in a country of one billion people turnover is hardly a huge problem....


and why should they care about your middle class when you clearly think abusing their lower middle class is ok?

[Maru Kitteh]

108. Well then they shouldn't have a fuckin' crying fit when they bear the

brunt of outsourced pissed-off Americans now should they?

I have the DISTINCT suspicion that most of these "abuses" they are "suffering" are people yelling things like

"I CAN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING"

"I ALREADY TOLD YOU FIVE TIMES . . . . I DID PRESS THE F11 KEY AND NOTHING HAPPENS!"

"THE DAMN THING WILL NOT POWER UP, I CAN'T REBOOT IT, THAT'S WHY I'M FUCKING CALLING YOU"

"ARE THERE ANY AMERICANS AT ALL WORKING FOR THIS COMPANY ANYMORE????? IT'S 11:30 AM ON A TUESDAY FOR GODS SAKE, SHOULDN'T YOU BE IN BED?"


Of course they can't understand what we're saying either so they jump straight to "racism".

Fuck.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

111. i think indians know the fucking difference between racist speech

and cranky customers

[Maru Kitteh]

142. well then YOU explain why they can't understand when I carefully repeat

a dozen times, "I already did that" or "I already tried that, it didn't work".

See, when they understand what I'm saying without a script on a screen at least 50% of the time I'll believe this tripe.

Otherwise, no sale. I don't think they know the difference.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

154. Maybe they don't understand YOUR accent.

Whenever I'm on the phone with someone from India, they have no problem understanding me. It's the same when I talk to them in person.

And did you read the article?

"Mostly they say Indians are dirty and that they don't have brains and they are illiterates," he says.

(snip)

"You won't believe it. Once a customer asked one of my colleagues if he goes to work on a bullock cart."

(snip)

"Some customers will ask us if we use electricity and watch TV," says Madhavi, a call centre worker who declined to give her surname and who spoke to the BBC on the condition that her company's name would not be mentioned.

In another post, you said they claimed racism when there wasn't any. The above quotes clearly demonstrate racism, don't you think?

[Maru Kitteh]

179. Now you're really reaching. My accent? It's MY LANGUAGE.

If they cannot understand an accent neutral college educated woman from Nebraska with no speech impediments they have the wrong damn job. This has happened to me many times.

Critical reading skills are so important, really. I do not argue that racism happens, I never did. I simply stated that the majority of the so-called "abuses" are probably not racist in nature but rather the result of pure unadulterated and justifiable frustration at calling a number looking for help and finding the person who will be "helping" you don't have the language skills necessary for simple communication if you veer off their little script. At least half of the time I find Indian workers do NOT have the functional language skill needed to actually be of any assistance whatsoever.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

182. your british?

[Maru Kitteh]

191. That is seriously weak. Is that all you've got? n/t

[mitchum]

201. Actually, it's "you're"

Damn! I guess English is a hard language to grasp...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

186. Ironically, I just received a call from India.

She understood me, and I'm an accent-neutral college-educated man with no speech impediments from California. Maybe you're just talking to different people.

[Maru Kitteh]

190. It's quite possible. Most of my dealings with Indian call centers are

the direct result of two different company products and services only. Perhaps these two companies in particular hire VERY poorly in comparison with other companies. It does not invalidate my experience in any way.

edit typo

[La Lioness Priyanka]

180. maybe you speak incoherently

its easier to believe that one person speaks badly rather than a whole nation of incompetents.

[Maru Kitteh]

181. Perhaps you smell.

As for India, a whole nation of incompetents? No, but it does seem to be a nation filled to the halfway mark with people being hired to do jobs which they lack the skills to carry out properly.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

192. That could apply to any country, especially this one.

I should mention that the largest group of foreign graduates in the U.S. come from India.

[Maru Kitteh]

194. Well then.

If I am paying American dollars to buy American products from American companies the very least they can do for me is hire American incompetents to fail to answer my questions and assist me properly. Better yet they could hire American workers and train them properly.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

197. There's no such thing as "American" anymore.

Our dollars are being held by China, our products are made in Mexico, and our companies are "based" in Bermuda for tax purposes.

To demand "American" all down the line, we'd have to go back in time.

[ErisFiveFingers]

205. Half of all people are below average. :-) n/t

[Dem2theMax]

98. They "took" American jobs? No, they didn't TAKE them.

The * government and their corporate buddies are GIVING OUR JOBS AWAY. Don't blame someone in India for something that OUR government is doing.

[sasquatch]

119. If you accept stolen property though, you're punished as well

Don't agree with the racist abuse, but you can't expect all the screwed over Americans to be happy with speaking to you either.

[Dem2theMax]

121. That's your argument? Ummmm, oh, OK. nt.

[Spider Jerusalem]

123. Right-o.

Because, you know, in a nation where over 400 MILLION people live on less than US $1/day, and four out of ten are illiterate, there are just so many OTHER employment opportunities. THink about that for a minute, if you would. More than the population of the US, Canada and Mexico combined, living a hand-to-mouth existence on what they can get by subsistence farming, or begging in the streets.

Seriously, ANY American who's angry at the Indians for 'taking our jobs' is a fucking idiot; it's the corporations doing this, not the call-centre employees. If people were REALLY angry, they'd stop giving money to the corporations doing the outsourcing; there's a novel concept, eh? But what do they do? They keep renewing their credit cards, and buying software upgrades that they need tech support on, and going to Wal-Mart and all the other cut-rate discounters, where everything they sell is made in China...they're PAYING these corporations. Tacitly endorsing their actions by voting with their pocketbooks, as it were. And then they have the incredible idiocy to bitch at some poor bastard from Calcutta who's got the good luck to actually earn enough to eat every night?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

136. seconded

especially the idiot part.

[Dorian Gray]

140. I agree with Spider here...

I may get angry at the outsourcing at times, but how can anybody blame a person for taking a job that they very possibly need to feed their families? That's absolutely ridiculous!

[FlaGranny]

173. Really, it's not the folks

living a hand-to-mouth existence and sustinance farming who get these jobs. They do not get any benefit at all from these outsourced jobs. It is the Indian middle and upper classes, the college educated, who get these jobs.

There are (or were - not sure if its still true) Indian physicians working as medical transcriptionists and transcription supervisors in India because they made better money than they did as physicians. Uneducated and poverty stricken Indians don't get outsourced jobs, any more than a homeless street person in the US would get such a job.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

135. dude its not stolen. as corporation are run,having a job is a privilege

not a right. and it doesnt confer ownership either.

[sasquatch]

152. No having a job in this country is a necessatie

And people view ownership with their job's too.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

178. jobs are a necessity regardless of country

however no one owns a job. and we should boycott companies that oursources their jobs. however being insulting to citizens of another country is hardly the answer.

[sandnsea]

8. My problem is a bit different

They have no sense of "customer service". They're polite and all of that, but they clearly believe their job is to protect the company. The idea that we're just working, the same as they are, and that we buy products in "good faith" just doesn't seem to be part of their culture. Or they don't think it's part of ours. I've never had US customer service try to avoid honoring warranties quite the same as Indian workers do, and considering how badly US customer service has deteriorated, that's really saying something.

That and I can't understand them. I spend half my time on the phone apologizing for having to ask them to repeat what they said. Isn't that a kick in the pants, spend MY money on a product and then feel guilty for expecting customer service to actually be able to service the product.

Crazy crazy times.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maru Kitteh]

141. That reluctance to honor the warranty thing, I don't think it's cultural I

think it's incentive based.

These slimy-assed corporation ship our jobs over seas and there are very good reasons why they pick the countries that they do.

I think it is easier to lean on an Indian worker to make no provision.

I think it is easier for a large corporation to dangle a much larger carrot while wielding a much larger stick in less developed countries in order to achieve the most profitable outcome.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

14. Two things......

....if they want to take American jobs, they better be prepared to deal with the same abuse that American customer service reps do on a daily basis. Which is a lot.

And if they call MY house, to sell me something, I'm not going to apologize that I can't understand what they are saying. Sorry. A good salesperson learns to adapt to the situation.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. two answers

1. how often do american call center reps deal with racism? (please understand that i managed a customer service department for 4 years, so its not like i am not acquainted with this work)

2. if you cant understand you have a right to say so.

[REP]

144. US Call Center Workers Deal With Racism Daily

I worked for a major US telecommunications company for quite some time - much longer than 4 years. Not only are customers rude, they have few qualms about using racist and sexist slurs. In one office, we weren't allowed to hang up on an abusive customer, no matter how many times "nigger," "bitch" or "cunt" was used - or if violence was threatened. Call center workers in India don't have to worry about customers showing up in their offices with a gun or knife, or driving a truck through their building, as happened at the company where I worked.

[burythehatchet]

72. If they want to take American jobs...

Yeah, you know, they put on their polyester suit, look in the mirror and say to themselves "let me see if I can take an Aerican job". I think you've nailed it.

[mongo]

85. I was waiting for someone to say this

Phone customer service reps get abused no matter what country they're in. Either they are cold calling and interupting you for no reason, or you are calling because of a problem you are having with a product.

Either way, people are not too friendly. As my business can't be on the do not call list, I hang up on telemarketers all the time.

No real excuse for racist remarks, but people generally hurl the first insult that comes to mind. Would it be any different if they were being called insulting but not necessarily racist names?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

yes i think there is a huge difference between an insult and a racial slur

it shows what kinda human being you are...so if i were to insult one...i generally say stupid cow/asshole/prick...but a racial slur would not even occur to me.

its because i am not a racist.

[mongo]

116. Um

it shows what kinda human being you are...so if i were to insult one...i generally say stupid cow/asshole/prick...but a racial slur would not even occur to me.

So sexist slurs are OK, then? I think we are in agreement, I try to keep my insults gender/race neutral. But interesting the insults you chose. It just goes to show how people really just hurl the first insult that comes to mind.

Ever heard the song -- "Everyone's a little bit racist" from Avenue Q?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

128. umm since i use the same abuse on both genders i think it isnt sexist

so i am just as likely to call a boy a sexist cow as i am a girl

[MindPilot]

183. Aren't cows sacred in India?

The defense rests your honor...

hi mongo!! :hi:

[OhioChick]

15. Rudeness gets you nowhere......

but I can somehow understand behavior such as this, given the fact that most of my IT friends are now working at Home Depot's, getting their homes foreclosed on, etc. due to outsourcing. Not saying it's right.....but I understand why the frustration.

on edit: spelling

[Armstead]

20. I used to be a phone solicitor -- but now I'm rude to them

I used to be very politie to call center workers, because I used to do that, and I know how difficult it is.

However, these days, I'm curt, and if they persist I just get rude.

The difference is that it's getting abusive. I get about five calls a day from someone trying to sell something these days. It's frustrating to rush to the other end of the house to answer the phone and hear "You have been selected to get a free...." or some other pitch.

Frankly I find it especially annoying when the person at the otehr end can;t even speak English clearly. I realize it's not their fault -- They are just trying to make a living. But the combination of frustration with outsourcing and the geometric increase in the number of junk calls has caused my patience to end and my normal courtesy to go out the window.

[Bridget Burke]

21. Why bother those big, bad Corporate guys?

Keep buying their products & never annoy THEM with rudeness. Above all: Never discuss organizing with your co-workers. Unions are so "blue collar."

I've had pretty good results with tech center operators--from whatever country. And I can understand them pretty well. (Of course, I live in a multicultural city--I'm sure there are yokels who can't understand anything other than "Texas English.")

Unsolicited calls? I let voicemail answer lots of my calls. Anything unsolicited--from whatever country--gets a very quick, polite refusal.

Apparently Angry White Males are still alive & well. Pathetic Dweebs.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. yes. if we really cared about American Middle Class

we wouldnt have to resort to insulting Indian call centers. Do it properly. Learn how to boycott. Learn to redirect anger where it should belong.

:puke:

[mongo]

97. Wow I understand now

I'm sure there are yokels who can't understand anything other than "Texas English."

It's only OK to be racist against "Texas yokels".

[fishwax]

110. texas yokels are a race? n/t

[mongo]

117. is a regional/socio-economic slur all that much different?

pretty much the same thing in my book.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

143. really.???you are truly telling me you dont see the difference

between use of the word "nigger" and "texas yokel"

some words inherently have more power. texas yokel aint one of those words.

and i am just arguing semantics here. not that the word nigger was used in the original article.

[fishwax]

170. yeah, it's actually quite different

calling someone a yokel (a behavioral rather than a geographic distinction) is not the same as making comments like those alluded to in the OP (Indians are dirty, illiterate, stupid, etc.).

[La Lioness Priyanka]

175. yes and not all insults are made the same way

i am pretty damn sure that a black man views being called nigger very differently than had someone called him a prick

[fishwax]

184. yes, very different indeed

of course, calling him a "hayseed," a "city slicker," or some other regional slur would be just as offensive :eyes:

it's stunning (shouldn't be, I suppose, but still is) how quickly and consistently people fall for the old trick of racial scapegoating.

[OneBlueSky]

22. there's no excuse for rudeness, but . . .

it's extremely frustrating "when he doesn't understand the heavy Indian accent" . . . I've had more than a few calls from and to India, and in about half of those, I honestly couldn't understand half of what was being said . . . even when I respectfully ask the person on the other end to repeat him/herself, sometimes the Indian accent is so strong that you can't fulfill the purpose of the call . . . this is particularly frustrating after you've been on hold for 20 minutes or more to get some technical assistance with, say, your computer or some software . . .

[liberalhistorian]

23. And then they start to get angry

when you're asking them to repeat themselves because you just cannot understand them at all. I understand it has to be frustrating for them, but it's a hundred times as frustrating for us.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. there is plenty of excuse for rudeness...this however is racism!

for which they should be no excuse..


somehow somewhere i feel we have used "they are taking away our jobs/women/safety" excuse before. it wasnt right then. it isnt right now.

[dysfunctional press]

26. people who cannot speak understandably-

have no business working in a call-center.

screw them- if they'd put me through to the american higher-ups who made the decision to off-shore it's customer service, i'd be more than happy to vent my frustration at them.
as it is- yelling at incompetents over the phone is how i let off steam- it's very theraputic...if they don't like it- they shouldn't be incompetent. or they can transfer up to someone with VP or better status.

otherwise-

screw 'em.

[ghostsofgiants]

51. Yeah, not being from the US is the epitome of incompetence.

:eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

64. i didn't say that they were all incompetent-

nor that all incompetents are outside the u.s.

nice of you to make assumptions tho- wrongheaded as they are.

[ghostsofgiants]

67. This is a thread about verbal abuse toward workers at Indian call centers

Your post said that you yell at "incompetents" to let off steam. If they didn't want to be yelled at, they shouldn't be incompetent. Which leads me to the impression that you consider those who were abused to be deserving because they were incompetent. No assumptions, just inferrences. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's the impression I got.

[dysfunctional press]

76. i don't know the abused- how would i know if they were incompetent?

all i can do is relate my own experiences.

[burythehatchet]

74. I think its time to hide this fucking racist thread

[dysfunctional press]

78. please point to any racist statement i made-

if you're going to make a reply like that- you should have the cajones to back it up.

[redherring]

28. I read recently that America's popularity in India

is quickly fading away. According to a poll taken a few years ago, there were only two countries that supported America:India and the Philippines. In India, what's happening is that since many of the call center jobs have been outsourced over there, when they call America, many Americans get angry and shout racial slurs at them. So the Indian view of America is changing.
I bet that's what the article is about. Now I'll read it.

[liberalhistorian]

31. Tough shit.

They take our jobs, then get upset if we get upset over it? Too fucking bad. I agree that any abuse they suffer, particularly racial abuse, is inexcusable and deplorable, but I'd be willing to bet that most people aren't really "abusive", per se, they're just frustrated over our jobs disappearing and over not being able to understand a customer service rep who's supposed to be able to assist them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. they dont take your fuckign jobs....you give them your fucking jobs

these are your corporation...your leaders...and your doing!

quit blaming other people.

[liberalhistorian]

36. Bullshit!

We do NOT give "permission" to corporations and our leaders to outsource our jobs, they do whatever the hell they feel like doing. We've tried many, many times to stop such outsourcing, and there's even a movement to boycott any company who outsources their jobs, but the corporofascists are simply too strong. And you think Bush and his cronies even listen to people, let alone give a shit, especially with something like this that benefits their corporotocratic buddies?

It's obvious that you don't give a shit about American workers, most of whom have done nothing wrong. Why don't you try caring about your own country's citizens for once?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. yes you do. you elect leaders that let corporations do exactly as they

please.

not you personally but the country does. if you dont take your country and its leaders to task...its hardly india's fault.

its still not another countries fault.

and i dont believe in blind patriotism. that last line of yours reminds me of similar arguments made by the current government...if you want to call me part of the blame america first crown be my guest..still i will not support racism.

[redherring]

38. Now I don't agree with outsourcing

but the problem isn't Indians, but corporations. And mind you, India isn't the only place that jobs are being outsourced. Eastern Europe is another popular spot. When people think outsourcing, Indians come to mind immediately. Indians aren't "taking away" jobs. It's being given to them by corporations.

[MindPilot]

44. Yeah like I can control what my leaders and their corporate masters do

Every IT guy who is stocking shelves at Wally-World voluntarily gave up his job. Riiiight.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. yeah and like one indian guy sneaked into your home at night

and stole your IT job while you were asleep.... :eyes:

[redherring]

49. As I said, Indians are just being scapegoated

How about dissing Eastern Europeans as well? Jobs are being outsourced to Eastern Europe as well.

[MindPilot]

161. No he did it in broad daylight

Oh god, I said "broad". I must be a sexist misogynist racist privileged white male.

Again you can't solve every problem by playing the race card.

[liberalhistorian]

167. LOL!

Oh, no, he said "broad", get the hypersensitive DU PC police! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Solon]

171. No but the (mostly) white guys in the chambers of commerce...

and the CEOs and other UNELECTED officials did. That is the one thing that pisses me off more than anything, where the FUCK was my vote on these issues? I didn't get one, and that pisses me off.

[JI7]

48. do you blame the guy working at Wally World for sweatshops ?

[redherring]

33. So is it okay to blame Indians?

Isn't it the fault of corporations who decide to send jobs to India? How is it the fault of Indians that companies decide to outsource jobs that should belong in America? Indians are being scapegoated here.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. its lazy thinking that leads to the conclusion that racism under certain

circumstances is tolerable.

the laziness being..."its their fault...they are taking somethign away from us"...no they are not...your leaders, both political and economical are doing this to you.... dont blame a smaller/poorer nation.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. understanding racism and homophobia

is such a lovely trait.

[liberalhistorian]

125. SIGH. For the five thousandth time,

I do NOT agree with ANY racism or discrimination, no matter what the reason is, as I've tried to make clear many times in this thread alone. I'm simply saying, not excusing, that for many people, frustration over this has reached the boiling point.

And that thread you're talking about happens to be well over a year old, and I asked for it to be locked because I was too emotional at the time and was saying things I didn't really believe and never have. I've never understood why people don't like gays, and have to deal with homophobic yahoo yokels here in South Dakota all the fucking time; they're even worse than they were in my home state of Ohio. Which I frankly didn't think was possible, since coming up with laws to bash and "punish" gays is a normal pastime for their legislature.

[JI7]

35. India has a lot of problems

we hear about the economy improving and other things. while it's true the wealth is not distributed in a fair way. they spend so much on weapons yet don't spend money to help the people. i haven't been there myself, but i have family that goes there all the time. they have nice homes and there are homeless living just outside. it's two worlds side by side. they have cable, HBO, cars etc. but a large number of people have nothing.

if the govt and others in power in India would invest in the people rather than accepting bribes this wouldn't be as big a problem. but the people working at these call centres complain but they probably don't do anything when it comes to the politics of their country that allow this to happen.

this isn't too different from what goes on here though except we have a much higher standard of living.

[Joanne98]

39. Selfish Greedy CEO's make everybody hate each other.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. divide and conquer, baby!

[Telly Savalas]

88. Selfish greedy CEO's are behind many of the world's problems,

but if somebody is a petty racist fuckwad, that's not the CEO's fault. People should carry at least a little bit of personal responsibility and accountability.

[liberalhistorian]

126. Yes, indeed, how

very true. And then they sit back and laugh all the way to the bank. They've always been like that, no matter which country or era. Greed creates its own special breed of monsters.

[MindPilot]

41. I'm guessing not many people on this thread have worked in

public contact jobs. You get abuse heaped on you day in and day out. It has nothing to do with race, it's that the vast majority of people are raging assholes and when they have the service person in front of them they can for a few fleeting minutes slake their thirst for for power.

And to say vent the rage at the corporation instead of the lowly employee is stupidly unrealistic. There is a reason that CEOs have layers of bodyguards and bureaucracy between us and them. Sure I can never buy another Dell computer, but what difference will that make? There's tens of thousands of others who will.

Not every problem can be solved by calling it racism.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

43. i used to manage a customer service department

there is regular annoyance and then there is racism. these are seperate things. calling a race of people dirty falls under racism.

[redherring]

45. This is definitely racism

You're telling me that Americans asking Indians if they go to work on bullock carts isn't racism?

[MindPilot]

162. Yes the comments are definitely racist

No argument from me. But racism is just the symptom. I'm saying the PROBLEM, the underlying cause is not racism and focusing on racist comments from some assholes on the other end of the phone is detracting from the real issue, which is economic classicism.

But so many people on this board can't wait for the chance to scream "RACIST!" "SEXIST!" "UGLY AMERICAN!" "TEXAS YOKEL!" at the next white guy they see.

[misanthrope]

193. Hammer meet nail...

"...it's that the vast majority of people are raging assholes and when they have the service person in front of them they can for a few fleeting minutes slake their thirst for power."

That is the root of the matter and working stateside -- as in American restaurants -- will teach you this very quickly.

[Rosco T.]

42. I have a confession... .I have an AWFUL habit...

.. I spent way-too-many years on the radio and devloped this 'knack' of picking up accents, mostly for commericals but also for some 'ahem'.. amusing calls to broadcast.... I don't care what it is, get me around an accent I haven't for about 10 minutes and I can give you a durn good rendition.. the longer I hear it, the better I get, and if I've heard it before, I can usually nail it dead on...

You can imagine what happens when I get an Indian Call Center/Customer Support person on the line.

I DON'T EVEN REALIZE I'M DOING IT!! But next thing I know, I'm sound like Apu from the Simpsons or worse... same goes for German, Russian, whatever... the ONLY one I can't seem to get the hang of for some strange reason is Spanish (and you think after doing this sthick for 30+ years I could hit it by now...)

[NMMNG]

47. Deplorable behavior

Racism is unacceptable. No excuses. The people abusing these call center employees should be ashamed of themselves.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. seconded!

:bounce:

[ghostsofgiants]

53. Thirded.

[Solly Mack]

56. I fail to see how anyone could be tone deaf to the overt racism

exampled in the article.

And to excuse it away with anger and frustration?

I guess Phelps is just angry and frustrated.
I guess Klan/Neo-Nazi/Skinhead types are just angry and frustrated.

Boo hoo...my pain is real - so I have to express myself through racism.

sheesh

[NMMNG]

58. Bite me

You must excuse me, I am angry and frustrated.








;-)

BTW, I love your "hobby".

[Solly Mack]

59. LOL! Well, since you're angry and frustrated, it's OK then

I'm sure it's all my fault anyway...your problems are greater than my problems...your needs are greater than my needs. Your pain is real.

It's a fun hobby...and it keeps me very busy. lol!

[CornField]

57. I refuse to deal with any customer service person with an accent I can't

understand. I don't care if they are in India or Indiana. I politely, but firmly, ask for someone with less of an accent to come on the line -- and I've been forced many times to wait in excess of 30 minutes before being connected with someone I can communicate with.

It is irresponsible of a company to place people on the phone who cannot be understood by customers.

[bigwillq]

60. May I ask what nationality you are??

:shrug:

[CornField]

86. Typical American Mutt

Cherokee, English, German, Irish and who knows what else.

Why do some find it so wrong for me to want to be able to use a purchased service? Why is it somehow unacceptable for me to request a person with which I do not have a communications impediment? I'm not yelling obscenities. I'm not judging someone based on their race or nationality. I simply want to be able to use the service I've paid for without wasting a great deal of my own or someone else's time.

Not only do I request someone I can understand on customer service phone calls, but I've been known to drive right around to the window if I cannot understand the person speaking over the drive-through speaker. Further, I've even asked family and friends to phone me back or I've phoned them back when cellular connections are bad and I can't understand what they're saying.

Wow... I never knew wanting to transact my daily business with people I could understand made me such a super-duper racist. :sarcasm:

[bigwillq]

91. I don't think it makes you racist

but the government is the one that is outsourcing the jobs. I don't think you should really be all that upset at the people with accents answering the phones. It's not their fault. They have to make a living too.
With that said, I am totally against outsourcing and something needs to be done about it.


I asked what nationality because much of my family are immigrants and they came to this country looking for freedom and work.
They had accents too.

I think we should focus on what the government is doing concerning outsourcing rather than the accents of the people.

Thanks for hearing me out.

[liberalhistorian]

127. For some people on this board, breathing

a certain way makes you a racist.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

130. no speaking and writing a certain way makes you racist

again you are blaming other people for your issues

[liberalhistorian]

138. LP, you appear

to have your own definition of racism, which appears to be ANYTHING you say it is, even if it isn't racist and never was meant to be racist.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

139. no it doesnt. i have over 10,000 posts on du.

and very rarely have i said something was racist. check my posts if you feel like it.


on edit: understanding racism in others is aiding and abetting.

[redherring]

61. As long as you don't shout racial abuse

you can deal with them however you want IMHO. Hang up the phone, or be rude if you want to. Tell him/her to fuck off. Doesn't matter. Just don't bring race into it.

[liberalhistorian]

129. I don't think being rude

or telling people to fuck off solves things any better than using racial slurs and asking ridiculously ignorant racist questions does. I'm just very polite but firm and, if I can't understand them after a few minutes of trying and asking to repeat themselves, I simply ask for someone whom I can actually understand and communicate better with.

Many times, though, they'll become angry because I can't understand them. Too damned bad. They probably have trouble understanding me as well, so why are we wasting each other's time?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

62. boy your world must be tiny.

[CornField]

87. No, but it is subject to time limits.

[sproutster]

63. Blah - as someone who every three months waits to see if her job

is outsourced - I will not deal with outsourced call centers.

I protest, and I end all buisness. I will be Windows free soon, it the last company I am supporting.

[bigwillq]

66. It's not the people who are on

the other end of the phone's fault that they have a job that was outsourced. It's our government's fault. We need to start there.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redherring]

71. So by your logic we should all start shouting racial abuse at Indians

Yes, let's all be racist. :crazy:

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sproutster]

122. wtf are you talking about?

I do not support outsourcing, I hang up. I am not racist so kiss my butt for even suggesting it. I am angry at the gov, but am more angry at the corps - I show my protest by not using obvious outsourced calls. I will inquire if they are in america.

You will not twist my meaning or what I am about.

I will not go into the litney of "one of my good friends is "insert whatever argument here"

I will say I have many different lifestyle and ethnic friends. Myself, I am not caucasion - so again, kiss my butt.

I will continue to protest how I see fit, and without vulgarity or slurs. I will every three months wait and see if they have my job. :) Wa'qaa

[liberalhistorian]

132. See, this is what really

bothers me about the attitude of some people here. If you're against outsourcing and/or if you have a problem with American jobs being taken overseas by the hundreds of thousands, even if you blame the corporations, where the blame belongs, and not the workers themselves, you're automatically a racist. If you boycott companies that outsource, you must be a racist. If you want to stop the rush of American jobs overseas and try to shore up what's left of the middle and lower-middle classes, you're a racist because you then want to take away jobs from the poor foreign workers. And all of that is BULLSHIT!

[redherring]

155. Did you even read the deleted post?

He was suggesting that racial slurs against Indians is okay because they are taking all our jobs away. Aside from the racial slur issue, this argument has a big hole because Indians aren't taking our jobs, it's being given to them by corporations.

[sproutster]

156. No I thought it was from my post.

All I saw was a deleted post.

[ghostsofgiants]

77. Wow...did you even think before you typed that?

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ghostsofgiants]

83. So you advocate racism and verbal abuse as a means to discourage...

Corporations from outsourcing? Dude, that's fucked up.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yollam]

93. He said to make it hard on them, not call them racial slurs.

There's nothing racist in what he said.

[redherring]

95. He said "whatever works"

"This is war".

[Yollam]

99. Well, if that's veiled racism...

...it's wearing a burqa.

as for me, I prefer not to put words in people's mouths just because I disagree with them.

[ghostsofgiants]

96. I specifically asked if he advocated racism, and he said "whatever works."

[fishwax]

113. no, he advocated racist slurs

he said it was justified if it brings the jobs back from overseas.

[liberalhistorian]

133. Now, ok, I didn't see the deleted

posts, but if that is actually what that poster said, then that is pretty fucked up.

[ghostsofgiants]

150. See where I asked if he advocated racism and verbal abuse?

His response was "Whatever works." and "We're at war."

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redherring]

73. Nope, there is no righteous anger here

Dissing Indians and making fun of them and saying that they go to work on bullock carts is just racist, plain and simple. If you wanna be angry at somebody, try Dell.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

105. yes tormenting middle class humans anyway is just so fucking delightful

[NMMNG]

109. Apparently so

This is war after all. :sarcasm:

[liberalhistorian]

164. Just what in the hell

IS a "bullock cart", anyway?

I remember an African co-worker in a previous job; she was from Ghana and had married an American. We felt bad for her because, while she was happy in her marriage, all of her family and lifelong friends were back in Ghana. You wouldn't believe some of the questions she told us she was often asked here. The worst one was someone asking, at least once a month, "do you guys eat with silverware over there or just your hands and fingers?" And these were serious questions. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[KamaAina]

75. I'm rude to them whether they're in Bangalore or Buffalo!

Their national origin is of no concern to me. What is of concern is that they (solicitors) have called MY house on MY time and interrupted ME. :grr:

As for the customer "service" types, same deal. In India or Indiana, their job seems to be to make a simple, routine matter as difficult and irritating as possible.

As far as accents go, you'd think these offshore call center operators, who are presumably making money hand over fist, could bust out for a voice coach like actors use (you think Renee Zellweger really sounds like Bridget Jones? She's from Texas, fer gossakes!) Apparently they don't give enough a rip about what kind of experience we, their customers, are having to do so. :grr:

[Yollam]

101. I have a great solution.

A massive tax on bulk long-distance users between US and overseas. It's partly low long-distance rates making this possible.

[sasquatch]

106. Well to quote Richard Pryor: "You order shit, you eat shit"

Although I don't agree with the racist tones I do see why people are upset.

[varun]

107. If you have stocks in companies that outsource...

dump them.

If your company is going to outsource, express your opposition.

Channel your anger in the right direction, instead of blaming other people, who are trying to earn a living.

[Ksec]

115. All customer reps get abused.

Its not like someone from India should be any different than any other customer service rep. It comes with the job. Especially if the job used to be in the US.

I dont resent Indians but I do resent them for undercutting jobs that should be in the US. Why ? Because its Americans who are calling. Why not let the people service their own country?

[CakeGrrl]

118. Language Barrier

I work for a huge corporation who has outsourced a good portion of its IT staff to Indian AND Mexican consulting companies.

The language barrier IS a factor when accents are thick. That isn't racism, just a fact of not being able to easily parse the speech of someone with a thick accent. In our company's case, the people in question, DUE TO THE CORPORATE POLICY TO OUTSOURCE AND GIVE THESE JOBS TO OFFSHORE CONSULTING FIRMS, happen to be from India and Mexico, where the cost of the technical teams is cheap compared to U.S. rates and benefits the bottom line for the shareholders.

When it comes to IT Help Desk centers, the problem is made worse because the caller often lacks the technical savvy to convey their REAL problem. You have to be able to establish basic linguistic communication with that person to draw information out of them to figure out what's really going on.

Because I work with staff from India and Mexico on a daily basis, my ability to parse fast-moving dialects improves over time. But it's easier to do face-to-face than over the phone.

Ironically, I received a survey call today from an operator who, by my ear, sounded to be from India. I felt for her, because she really was trying to be cordial and follow a script, but I was SERIOUSLY short on time and overloaded to the max, and I told her up-front that this was not a good time to call. She pushed my button by persisting like a salesperson that she only had a few questions. The frustration came on several levels: She was interrupting a seriously busy afternoon, I didn't have the stones to hang up on her, so I took it out on her by being very curt with my responses - but part of that was her fault for persisting...she had my contact information specifically, so if you insist on pushing forward, this is what you get! Part of the frustration was also that, she had a fast dialect and it was nearly impossible to parse some of her phrases over the phone.

There are many factors that shape the tone of a conversation, but the language gap is legit.

I want to be clear that this was NOT an excuse for me to level a racial generalization at her, nor do I think there is ever an excuse for that other than the ugly racism of the abuser.

[SPKrazy]

120. He's a F'ing Telemarketer! I'd give him hell too just for that! n/t

[sleipnir]

124. The capitalist apologists are out in droves in this thread.

It is astounding for our board and a little embarrassing.

Sure, it's fine to make a buck off the backs of people. Let's pay the poor man in India half of what we would have paid an American. Oh, don't mention that the American taxpayers are giving the damn credit card companies billions in effective tax breaks and laws each year.

[sasquatch]

153. RACIST!!

:sarcasm:

[BiggJawn]

134. Well, of COURSE we're angry.

Indian call centres represent what's wrong with our Uber-Capitalist-bottom-line-grind-people-like-grist business world.

Those are jobs Americans used to have until other Americans figured they could put another coupla panels in their Golden Parachutes by moving $8 an hour boiler room jobs to Bangalore for $8 a day and free Biryani.

That really sucks, I have to buy my OWN Biryani!

I don't get abusive, but neither do I go out of my way to be overly friendly.... Except with one young woman. Her voice was SO delightful, I asked her to call me back after her shift...

Of course she didn't... "But Sir, that is strictly against the rules!"

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

145. Welcome to The America Dream,

Indian Call Center workers, you have the same rights as american workers none! You will be underpaid and overworked and there's a good chance someone is going to insult you by calling you an idiot or discriminate against you. But guess what else enjoy it why you can because in 10-15 years you'll be calling in regards to your credit card statement and someone from another part of the world like africa will be trying to answer your questions and you be calling them an idiot or saying something racist to them because of your frustration with the terrible economy in India.

[RB TexLa]

147. Just more of "God bless America and NO place else"

:puke: :puke:

[sproutster]

158. Let's put it this way - There was a manpower poll.

It basically said that the corps said there were no trained engineers, technicians and testers.

In the past three years - most of those have been told to take early retirement, and got paid to leave.

We sit and wait to be outsourced, and we know tons of people who have been laid off - trust me it's not due to lack of expertise.

It's a flipping lie so the uninformed think it's ok.

Ok, it is a lie -- they forced out my last boss who has a phd in mathmatics and is an engineer, the man is NOT undertrained.

[ScreamingMeemie]

169. And big business walks away unscathed...after wreaking havoc

on the "little guy" in both sides of this issue. Again, people are shooting the wrong target. These people are doing nothing more than providing for their families. Just as we would. The system that allows this to happen is what angers me. While, I admit as the wife of a blue collar machinist and friend of an engineer who had to train the person who was taking over his job, it is very difficult to not be angry. I just refuse to take it out on a person who is no more responsible for the "way things are" than I am.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

176. exactly, blame the right people

quit blaming other people whose choices are limited.

[OhioChick]

177. I work with several from India......

in which we discuss issues such as this frequently. They said that if the tables were turned and India was outsourcing much of their jobs to the US, the people of India would react nearly the same (or likely worse) as those whom have lost their jobs in the US.

[SYNERCHOSIS]

188. No need to Outsource

I actually do customer service from my home for major companies. From what I understand these companies actually save more money using work at home contractors as opposed to outsourcing to India. Not only do they save money but work at home agent provide much better customer service. I know there are thousands of people that would work this job in the US, evertime I tell people I work at home they always want to know how they can do it. And the best part is that I can read DU all day and get paid at the same time!!!!!!!!!

[Maru Kitteh]

195. Welcome to DU! And kudos for your solution

How to read DU all day and get paid, BRILLIANT. :applause:

[Ksec]

196. any tips on that Field ?

Sounds good. Is there anything you can share that could help someone looking for that type of work?

[SYNERCHOSIS]

207. Check Out these Co

Alpine Access (in and around Denver)
LiveOps
Intersol
West
Willow (need to incorporated)
Voicelog

Those are some of the bigger ones, try doing a similar search on google to find anymore. With cs at home it can take a little while before you find the call that is right for you and pays enough but if you stick with it the money can be really good, I get paid about twice what I made in a brick and morter call center. Good Luck!!

[mitchum]

198. I always just ask "Sean" if I can pay in rupees

I have no time for scabs And shrill accusations of racism and xenophobia are just so much bullshit.

[fujiyama]

202. Scabs are people that take unionized jobs

This isn't the same thing. Most of these jobs were never unionized to begin with and others the world over need work. Everyone has the same aspirations of a middle class life.

And plus, I never understood the whole anger at scabs even at home. I find getting pissed at other workers ineffective and misguided.

I don't blame you for being upset over outsourced work, but if it pisses you and others off as much as it does, then boycott these companies and work to elect politicians that will crack down on such corporations.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

206. whats much more bullshit

is actually being racist and xenophobic

[mitchum]

209. No hurling around the accusation is bullshit...

in fact, it's even more bullshit that trying to "titillate" with tales of bisexual adventures (how 90s!) and "how do I look photos?"

[La Lioness Priyanka]

210. some accusariions are well earned

also lounge posts are meant to be frivolous...i am bi.. uts just the way it is...just like some[ people are racist and sexist....and homophobic

[fujiyama]

203. For those upset by outsourcing

A few ideas...

Rather than getting pissed at some person 8,000 miles away, send them a message. I personally, don't like to waste time with such telemarketers, etc. I tell them politely, but firmly I'm not interested. Period. End of story. Race is irrelevant and racism is inexcusable.

Tell him or her to forward the message to their managers that you are not interested in doing business with a company that takes work overseas.

Boycott such companies that outsource work. A lot of the crap people are whining about are plastic and electonic junk sold at Wal Mart or some other store. If you don't like that company's tech support/customer service, don't do business with them.

Work toward getting politicians that will crack down on these corporations. Write letters to congresspeople, etc.

Racism cannot be tolerated. It's not someone else's fault they had an offer for a great job and took it.