Re: "Laura Bush killing someone"

[Thtwudbeme]

Look, I know it's fun to get on DU and get all whacked out about the Bush's...clearly, I can't stand them either, or I wouldn't have spent four flipping years here posting about how much I hate them.

But, the "Laura Bush killing her boyfriend" stuff is just crap. She wasn't married to Bush at the time, she was flipping 17 years old, and probably was a typical teenaged driver. This wasn't some evil damned plot---it was one of those suckass wrecks that involved teenagers.

Please read up on the story, and try....and I know this isn't going to happen because people love to flip the hell out here....but, TRY to put something in perspective.

Here is the Snopes link for edification:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp

[xultar]

1. ..

:popcorn:

[mikelewis]

2. Laura Bush killed someone? I didn't know that... No shit...

That explains a lot.

[Thtwudbeme]

7. it doesn't explain squat

I have a family member who was involved in a wreck similar to this when she was a teenager---

I had a family friend (who died of old age years ago) who hit and killed a 10 year old boy who ran in front of his car.

Car accidents just plain fucking suck; they don't make us evil.

[mikelewis]

19. How do you know it was only an accident?

Maybe it was an initiation into the secret order?

[mattclearing]

42. Read the article. n/t

[mikelewis]

How do I know the article is true? If the news were the truth...

There'd have been WMD's in Iraq,
Global warming would be only a myth,
Gays are truly evil and Bush isn't (even just a little).

The truth is, most people understand it was an accident and don't pay the issue very much mind... That is until someone brings it up out of the clear blue. Sort of like when people just start talking about 9/11 out of the blue. Like how it was not the work of foreign terrorists but our very own leaders who staged the event. Like when they tell you to go and look at the collapse of WTC 7 and wonder how the hell that happened. It's sort of funny, it's like they're trying to rustle up a scandal in an unimportant and dead issue. As we all know, we must never question 9/11.

[mattclearing]

160. The fact is if people could prove that, then we wouldn't be talking about

Laura Bush, except in the context of how her husband looks in an orange jumpsuit.

[robbedvoter]

65. If your relative would start preaching to me how to lead my life, I might

put him/her in their rightful place as well. It's the sense of entitlement that makes those people feel they are above the law that makes this a story.
I'll also remind you, I was minding my business, eating ice cream. It was YOU who brought laura's manslaughter about.

[SPKrazy]

172. It Is Interesting That The Boy She Killed Was Her Ex Boyfriend

And she never faced any charges a ticket or anything

And she ran a stop sign!

So why not ask questions about it?

Oh, wait, we shouldn't ever question our ruling elite or their spouses.

It seems that there was a lot of questioning of Hillary when she was the first lady.

Hell people claimed she had people killed, and I know of no one that she did actually kill (accidental or otherwise) whereas Ms. Bush has actuall killed someone.

[FreedomAngel82]

217. Maybe you should talk to that dad about that now

And Bush made his ex-girlfriend have an abortion.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

3. Uh. So what? It still happened. Didn't it?

[johnfunk]

37. She DID kill someone -- not even Dick Cheney can make that claim!

... and he shot HIS vic in the face! :evilgrin:

[valerief]

68. You don't know that he can't. tee hee

[sallyseven]

92. How about all the young people

killed in Iraq during this war.

[Rosco T.]

4. From your own link...

Claim: While a teenager, future First Lady Laura Bush caused the death of a classmate in a car accident.

Status: True.

----------

The accident is difficult to understand it that it took place on a clear night on dry pavement at a crossroads described as "the middle of nowhere," where the view was unobstructed and the stop sign that faced Laura Welch was clearly visible. (The intersection was a two-way, not a four-way, stop.) Yet looking to only weather and road conditions to explain what happened is to miss the obvious: there were two teen girls in the car, girls who were on their way to a party and thus who likely would have been bubbling over with chatter about who would be there. Laura Welch, the driver, had turned 17 only two days earlier. She and her passenger were still of an age when they could all too easily shut out everything going on around them, even the approach of another car and the recognition of a stop sign.

----------

So, where's the error?

[July]

202. I note that Snopes seems to feel a need to make excuses for Laura,

even while confirming the known facts (some facts are unknown, e.g., why we can't see the full accident report, or why Laura and George got their driving records deep-sixed).

I don't think that being of "an age when they could all too easily shut out everything going on around them, even the approach of another car and the recognition of a stop sign," would keep my kids out of jail if they killed someone through their own negligence, no matter how young they were.

[Yupster]

233. She wasn't part of any influential anything

back when she was 17.

Her family was not well connected or rich.

[Occulus]

263. I bet it was scrubbed as soon as she married *

Do you for some reason think this is NOT how the law treats the US gentry class?

Um, just so you know... we DO have royalty here, we just call it something else or refuse to label it as such. But really.... we do have royalty, and those who marry into it get Special Treatment.

[lectrobyte]

5. crap? did you read the stuff from the link you posted?

Claim: While a teenager, future First Lady Laura Bush caused the death of a classmate in a car accident.

Status: True.

Michael Douglas, the young man who was killed, had been a member of Laura Welch's crowd at high school and her friend. He had been a star athlete, excelling in track and football, and was looked up to by his peers not just for his athlete prowess, but for his personality and intelligence too. By all reports, he was likeable, outgoing, and funny. He was nominated as the school's most popular boy while a junior, an honor that almost always went to a senior.

There has always been speculation about the nature of his relationship with Laura Welch. One rumor asserts the two had never dated, but that Laura had been romantically interested in him. Another claims he had been Laura's boyfriend when he died, and another that he had once been her boyfriend but the couple had subsequently broken up. (The latter theory is advanced in the 2002 biography of the Bushes, George and Laura: Portrait of an American Marriage, which states Laura Welch and Michael Douglas had dated throughout early and mid-1963, but by the fall of that year Michael was going out with Regan Gammon, one of Miss Welch's closest friends.)

[Thtwudbeme]

I've read the whole damned thing

Tell me, please tell me why this accident is fodder for DUers.

[lectrobyte]

23. Actually, I kind of agree with you, but I suspect lots of people are

just tired of 15 years of Limbaugh etc. trashing Mrs. Clinton, 40 years of Ted Kennedy jokes etc. It's fodder because it happened, but it seems as relevant, and as childish, as all the John Kerry French wife ketchup jokes made by pubs in the '04 campaign.

[acmejack]

31. I would agree with you.

But it would appear it a matter of personal considerations and styles. We had this very discussion last evening when we passed an accident scene where some unfortunate had struck a bicyclist. The lives of both had just been irrevocably altered forever and I cannot imagine the burden that was placed on the driver of that car.

[MADem]

43. Maybe because you started a thread on it, and got all passionate

about it? If you don't wanna have it brought up continually, don't help keep it afloat...JMO....

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

47. Uh, because she's married to the guy in charge of the country?

[MyNameGoesHere]

61. maybe because these

fuck wads act so god damn high and mighty? Maybe because if people saw them for what they are, just little freaking ordinary riff raff we wouldn't be in this fucking mess?

[FreedomAngel82]

218. Very interesting

[babylonsister]

6. Agree totally! There's plenty of ammo to trash, this doesn't

have to be part of the ammo.
It does get irksome to hear Kennedy brought up ad nauseum, though, and I think Stepford Wife's accident is a partial response to that.

[July]

204. If Kennedy makes a policy statement, the Mighty Wurlitzer never fails

to bring up Chappaquiddick. They will never address the merits of Kennedy's statements. Ever.

[Quakerfriend]

8. I agree with you.

I'd like to think that we at DU have a bit more class/compassion than to go there.

[robbedvoter]

28. My compassion goes to the victim. No bleeding heart liberal me!

[July]

205. I only go there when the thugs say things like,

"I'd rather go hunting with Cheney than driving with Kennedy." If they want to start slinging mud, they'd better be prepared to duck some.

[slor]

9. Ummm, it was her ex-boyfriend and...

she hit him on the opposite side of the intersection. So, it was a little more than an accident. If the rwingnuts want to bring up Kennedy, then we will respond in kind.

[Thtwudbeme]

14. How was it "more than an accident?"

please, please explain to me how a 17 year old girl was involved in an evil plot?

Give me a freaking break.

[slor]

Oh, I forgot about the intrinsic quality of humans...

to not kill while 17 years of age or younger. The point is, he dumped her, she got tipsy and used her car as a battering ram, on him. It was all so innocent that she had the records sealed.

[Thtwudbeme]

33. You weren't there, and you don't have a clue in hell

as to what you are talking about.

I have been to more wreck scenes than you can imagine....I very seriously doubt that it was anything like you described.

[slor]

38. And YOU were?

You examined the evidence?

[Thtwudbeme]

45. No, but I am not the one making wild assed claims either.

Jesus Christ, did you not ever make a bad driving decision when you were a teenager?

I am saying that this could have happened to anyone....drunk, not drunk, pissed off, not pissed off.

However, you are giving Laura special mystical qualities of evil that you claim other's don't normally possess, and that is beyond stupid.

[slor]

82. Yeah, the "special mystical qualities" of...

driving a car into her boyfriend. I know it sounds fantastic, but I have that kind of imagination. BTW, what is up with the heavy use of the word "evil". Humans have faults, that I do not normally associate with some demonic significance. She got drunk, and angry about being dumped, saw her boyfriend and made a rash decision. That is not evil, per se, but she did get away with it, and that is what I have a problem with. I guess it is like shooting a 78 year old in the face, all perfectly innocent, when in Texas, and with the right familial connections.

[Thtwudbeme]

85. You just made my point. That is the scenario that you CHOOSE to believe

Like a fantasy.

Whatever.

Bet you believe the old gerbil up the butt story too, because you know someone whose cousin is an ER nurse.....

[slor]

94. And you choose to believe she is...

innocent. I bet you still believe saddamn was behind 9/11 too.

[Thtwudbeme]

123. I choose to believe she was a teenager in a wreck

damn. Is that so hard for you?

[slor]

142. Is it so hard for you to understand...

that I will never agree with you that she is innocent? Might I also suggest that you stop bringing up the thread topic, if you cannot handle the truth.

[Thtwudbeme]

157. I don't recall ever bringing this topic up before

Gosh, I'll have to check for topics you prefer before I write.

Can you send me your phone number in order for me to expedite the process of checking with you first?

[slor]

178. No need to check with me...

Just do not get upset when I respond in ways that you do not like. BTW, I believe your original post was about how you do not like the "laura murdered her boyfriend" posts. Are you asking DU, prior to posting, to check with you?

Look, we are on the same side, and I am mad at what these people have done, to the WORLD. It might appear mean to blast on pickles, but that is really a small cost for what we will have to live through, thanks to her family.

[Blue_In_AK]

161. Most people who run a stop sign

and kill somebody get charged.

[FreedomAngel82]

221. So why didn't she even get a DUI?

[Yupster]

237. I drive those roads almost every day

I don't know what they looked like 40 years ago, but probably not much different.

Very little on the sides of the roads. Maybe hay or cotton growing. A few trailer homes spaced very far apart. Hardly any shoulders on the roads. I have trouble staying straight because it's so boring.

The roads are completely straight pretty much and cross each other pretty much at right angles. People drive very fast on them because they really are in the middle of no where even today.

[bunkerbuster1]

52. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

I won't bring up Laura Welch killing her boyfriend as soon as the Freepigs stop bringing up Mary Jo

EVERY.

FUCKING.

TIME.

that Ted Kennedy appears ANYWHERE.

[Yupster]

235. You couldn't ram a car at those intersections if you tried

100 times.

They are farmer's market roads that cross perpendicular to each other.

Cars go at least 50 miles per hour. I don't know how you'd even identify whose car was coming at a right angle to you at night with you both going 50 miles an hour. His car would have just been two headlights at a 90 degree angle.

[kittenpants]

273. exactly, it's embarrassing to hear people speculate otherwise. nt

[MADem]

39. I think she intended to scare the shit out of him, not kill him

...and she fucked up. Either that, or she was playing vehicular Pin the Tail on the Donkey.

There are bigger issues than this, sure, but screw it--the gloves are off, and Peter Griffin's little pronouncement was the sound of the gloves hitting the floor.

About goddamn time. They have been dishing it out for years, time for a heapin' helpin' of our hospitality....

[mattclearing]

48. There was no intent. She ran a stop sign.

You couldn't intentionally run a stop sign and kill someone in a car crossing in front of you if you tried.

[MADem]

66. Like I said, I think she wanted to scare the crap out of him

...and she timed it wrong.

[mattclearing]

80. Dude, they were both in cars.

I don't see how anyone can read the snopes article and not conclude that it was random and that she had no intent to do anything other than maybe run a stop sign.

[truebrit71]

95. Um, ever played chicken?

Of COURSE it's possible, especially if it is only a two-way stop and not a four-way stop which is the case here. She was approaching the two-way stop at 50 miles an hour (why wasn't she slowing down) and the car she hit has driving toward her at a 90 degree angle. It was at night. The weather was fine. Visibility was excellent. Road conditions were perfect. But this was just an accident...that's the ONLY logical explanation?

Um. not so much...

[mattclearing]

114. Yeah, you can intentionally cross-hit someone at night.

Give me a break.

[truebrit71]

126. Didn't you just get done saying how you COULDN'T do that?

Make your mind up....

And sure it's POSSIBLE, if you ignore the oncoming headlights that you can see for over a hundred and fifty yards... :eyes:

[mattclearing]

138. It's called sarcasm.

Don't they have that across the pond?

[truebrit71]

199. Sarcasm eh?

Must have missed the smilie..... ;-)

[MADem]

111. Uh, DUUUUHHHH, I KNOW that

Both in cars, clear view, (the roads were visible and there were no obstructions, and she was coming from a higher aspect than he was, and it is entirely possible she knew the car not only by the headlights but the motor sound, having dated the kid) she sees him, and starts GUNNIN' for his car. Her intent is to cross in front of him, scare the shit out of him, or get behind him, but she misjudges....ooops, shit, hit the brake, get the gas instead....BANG.

Read Kitty Kelley's book. She got real precise on this issue.

[mattclearing]

115. Interesting.

Did she say who told her this story? It seems like Laura would be the only eyewitness, and I know she didn't talk to her.

[MADem]

121. Laura had a passenger in the car

and the cops came to the scene.

AND, on edit, the kid's daddy was driving in the car BEHIND him...

And who knows WHO Laura talked to about it...

Read the Kelley book. She sources the shit out of everything. Footnotes and all!

[FreedomAngel82]

223. I've been meaning to buy the book

Do you think you can PM me a review of her book?

[rinsd]

125. Now I have to get my waders out....

"it is entirely possible she knew the car not only by the headlights but the motor sound"

Recognizing a specific car motor sound while driving at 50 mph?

Recognizing headlights at the same speed head on OR perpendicularly(depending on who's telling the story)?

[MADem]

132. Hey, read the friken book--I am not gonna do your homework for you nt

[rinsd]

140. I'm talking about physical near impossibilities

Like reconizing the sound of s specific car motor at any distance while traveling in a car at 50 mph or faster?

If you got that from the Kelley book than I need all I need to know about her "truthiness".

[MADem]

143. The kid was driving a CORVAIR

with a distinctive headlight pattern. She dated him, likely she knew the sound of the car.

If that is too much for you to deal with as a concept, well, you are not mechanically inclined. I can tell the difference between the sound of my vehicle and those of family members.

But you're just looking for an argument. Look elsewhere.

[Thtwudbeme]

152. I LOVE old Corvairs. My dream car is STILL a '65 Dodge Dart

with a slant six. (mopar rules...don't bother to argue with me ;) )

I could not recognize that car at that angle, at that time of night, at that distance, AND hit it just so ON PURPOSE.

[MADem]

155. OK, now you are being obtuse, I did not say she hit it on purpose

I said that, if anything, she might have been trying to scare him.

But we'll never know, unless she decides to go on Oprah and tell all. Who gives a fuck, really? The essential statement remains true:

[Swamp Rat]

234. Take a 1958 Chrysler 300 and one could t-bone someone.

BAM!

it

is

possible


... and yes, Mopar rules. :D

[rinsd]

156. She could very well know the sound

That isn't my point.

My point is recognizing the sound at a distance at 50 mph or higher?

Or is your point that she laid in wait, heard the sound of his engine gunned it taking the precise angle at which to t-bone a moving car?

"I can tell the difference between the sound of my vehicle and those of family members"

So can I. I can't do so while driving at 50. Windows down you have the wind, windows up you're cut off from the sound.

"Look elsewhere."

I should when people are using Kitty Kelley as their source.

[Name removed]

174. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rinsd]

179. LOL

You're the one who suggested it was possible to hear a car engine, while in a traveling car at a distance, enough to distinguish it as her boyfriend's.

I argued that this was near impossible.

And someone making pop psych evaluations who believes Kitty Kelley is beyond rich.

[slor]

182. Here is a possibility for you...

maybe his car had a mechanical issue, like a loud ass muffler, or some other such problem, that distinguished it from other cars. Is that within your realm of possibilities?

[rinsd]

187. Maybe.....

"Is that within your realm of possibilities"

My realm of possibilites states the likehood of her recognizing the sound of a car while traveling in a car is near nil. Laura doesn't exactly strike me as mechanically inclined (I know I'm going out on a limb there)and it would be difficult to accomplish for even a gear head.

[Thtwudbeme]

196. Or maybe the guy had a pet elephant who was in the backseat

waving a strobe light!!!

Bet you never considered that, either, rinsd!!!

I am glad you are still trying to talk to some of these people....I gave up except for trying to be a smart ass below about breathalyzers in 1963.

[FreedomAngel82]

225. Or how about

while she dated him she road in his car thousands of times? Or she was stalking him and knew where he was going to be and when?

[Yupster]

246. I think you have to realize how far away cars are that

are crossing each other at right angles at 50 miles per hour.

What she'd see is headlights but from a right angle not head on. They would just be two little lights to her right if she even looked that way. There are no streetlights or even likely any houses with lights nearby.

When the cars actually crossed, it would just be for a split second.

Picturing myself on those oads, I can't even imagine trying to hear the motor of a car coming from a right angle far in front of me. All you'd see is tiny headlights which wouldn't even be clear since you'd be seeing them from the side.

My guess is the two girls were talking or putting on makeup and they never looked to the side and never even saw the other car coming until the second before the crash.

How many yards does a car go at 50 miles per hour in a second anyway?

[Thtwudbeme]

145. I'm telling you dude, (or dudette)

people don't like to have their urban myths messed with.

It's virtually impossible to drive at 50 mph at night, and recognize another car by it's headlights, or sound, and THEN HIT IT at exactly the right spot in order to kill the other driver, but be OK yourself....

But, no one wants to hear that "crap."

I hope you are seeing how powerful myths are in this thread; it's actually fascinating.

[rinsd]

163. It's dude...

Of course myth are powerful espeically when some people see them as useful.

I just find it the height of hypocrisy to feel a tactic is deplorable when employed by your opponents but okay for you. Add to that the completely immature "they did it first" excuse when the hypcorisy is pointed out and frankly these threads make me sad.

[MADem]

177. If they make you sad, you shouldn't contribute to them

All you are doing is feeding the very beast you claim to despise. They sink like a stone if you don't float them, you see....

[rinsd]

181. Gee how many rules of internet arguing are you going to pull out?

[Yupster]

242. Motor sound?

Each going at least 50 miles per hour from right angles to each other and you'd hear a motor sound?

[FreedomAngel82]

222. She was drunk

[Yupster]

240. In Midland it's not really random

because even today there are only two high schools and back then the classes weren't very big.

If she hit someone the same age as her, she had a 50-50 chance of him going to the same high school and if that was the case, she probably knew him.

They both went to Robert E Lee High School (so did Tommy Franks). Back then there were two others. There was Midland High and George Washington Carver High which was the black school.

Today there is only Lee and Midland.

The smaller the town, the more likely you are to hit someone you know.

[Thtwudbeme]

76. I think that's over their heads

It's a great point, but not many people here are going to get that one.

[in_cog_ni_to]

99. Now you're insulting the INTELLIGENCE of DUers? Nice way to make friends.

:eyes: What makes you so damn intelligent? You're the one who started a thread about something that's true and tried to make it not true. Now whose head did this go over?

[Thtwudbeme]

128. How did I try to make it not true

and I am not interested in making friends with you.

This is a political discussion board; I frankly don't care if I ever meet you in person.

[in_cog_ni_to]

149. Well, that's good. I had no intentions on being your "friend."

My friends are LIBERALS. They fight the Liberal fight. They don't tend to defend repukes and try to make conservative lives more pleasant.


But, the "Laura Bush killing her boyfriend" stuff is just crap. You insist she wasn't drunk (when there's NO PROOF she wasn't drunk) and you keep saying people said she did it on purpose. Who ever said that? I'd love to see that post.

So what if she was only 17 years old? I was 17 years old once and never killed my boyfriend while I was driving drunk. Why are you making excuses for her? Do the repukes make excuses for Hillary?, Chelsea?, Bill?, or ANY Democrat for that matter? NO. They do not. I will give them the same courtesy.

[Blue_In_AK]

165. Manslaughter/negligent homicide

She ran a stop sign and killed somebody. If nothing else, there should have been a reckless driving charge. People go to jail for less than this.

[FreedomAngel82]

220. You don't know seventeen year old girls do you?

It seems to me there are at least two different ways this could've happened. He could've broken up with her for someone else and she was outraged and went to a party and got drunk and had this happened or she was depressed and her friend invited to her to a party and got drunk and ran a stop sign. She didn't even get a ticket for driving drunk!

[DemVet]

36. No....

Go ahead if you want to. I'm better than this. It was an ACCIDENT. I believe this a political forum and will not resort to the mud slinging this sort of gossip/story entails...

[Occulus]

265. I think what bothers people most about this

is the thought that, PRIOR to her marrying *, you could have gone down there and pulled the records and found out just exactly what happened, but after marrying *, records were scrubbed in an obvious effort to "make it all go away".

The gentry do this, they get away with it, and THEIR crimes- accidental or not- DO NOT follow them through their lives. Our so, and that SHOULD enrage all of us.

That's more the point than whether it was intentional or not. SHE KILLED SOMEONE- and got NO verifiable punishment, period.

The crimes of * and his family and friends get regularly erased, even when they are decades old. They can't have anything- anything at all- sullying their "good name", you know... even if the something happened before the spouses ever even met.

No black sheep. Conform, conform, conform. Treat us special because we're rich and powerful and if we don't get our way we'll make sure YOU pay. Now, erase the record, please, and bid LOWER than $1500.

I don't see the intent or lack thereof as relevant in the least.

[mattclearing]

44. Read the article.

It's not clear that they were in a relationship. They were friends.

[Burning Water]

78. I don't know that this

is respondng in kind. Laura Bush is not an office holder, for one thing.

[slor]

88. Ok that is true, and what was Chelsea's elected...

office title?

[rinsd]

96. So the reponse to deplorable to behavior is to imitate it?

Because you think on some level rwers will see the error of their ways by having the tables turned on them?

Or is it a lazy justification to vicious behavior that many Duers simply enjoy?

[slor]

133. You can simply call it...

fighting fire with fire. The whole damn family is a criminal enterprise, sorry you feel the need to defend one of them.

[rinsd]

167. Sorry you feel the need to embrace their way of life....

..I'll stick to my principles, thanks.

:hi:

[slor]

185. No embrace of their way of life...

this is how I roll.

[rinsd]

188. Damn....

I couldn't find a decent enough Jack Black pic to respond.

[FreedomAngel82]

226. To get them to shut up about Ted Kennedy

I've used it plenty of times and it shuts them up.

[Occulus]

266. You apparently don't understand, there are some bullies and mindsets who

understand nothing but getting their own treatment back in their teeth.

These are usually the same types that kick YOU in the teeth after getting something FROM you. They have no conception of the fact that their actions harm others.... until they themselves are harmed by those same actions being done TO them BY others. THEN they screm bloody murder about how unfair it all is.

I believe this is part of the sociopathic personality, but I may be wrong.

[truebrit71]

201. When you're in a gun fight don't bring a knife...

..simple enough for you?

How's that playing by the rules and being nice working out for the Dems?

Not so well I'd say...

In the same sense that the British got their collective arses handed to them by the colonists because only ONE side was sticking to the "rules of combat" and marching in nice straight lines in bright and shiny uniforms, why in the world would Dems insist on walking in nice straight lines with bright shiny principles towards the enemy?

The rethuglicans decided to use a flame-thrower to kill the Democratic mosquitoes, it's time the mosquitoes armed themselves with tanks and responded in kind...

Next?

[Burning Water]

198. So we want a race to the bottom

with the Repukes??

No matter how that turns out, we lose.

[July]

208. They tell LIES about our people.

Example: Hillary and/or Bill killed Vince Foster. Hillary is a lesbian. The Clintons trashed the White House and Air Force One before leaving. Etc.

We can tell the TRUTH about their side when they choose to debate on the level of insinuation, lies, and hate.

If they want to respond to every POLICY statement Kennedy makes with "Mary Jo Kopechne" (a really juvenile debating strategy, IMO), then we are free to point out that Kennedy's not the only "killer" out there. The only difference is that, while we point it out, we don't use it as the basis for judging statements about policy or government by Laura Bush (she does get trotted out now and then to do just that).

But if they're going to be childish, a harsh dose of reality is good for them. I see it as a little bit of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," rather than descending to their level. They seem to need the reminder.

[Burning Water]

211. Maybe so.

Has it been an effective strategy for us?

Maybe it works for them because of the kind of people they are. that doesn't mean it will work for us, again because of the kind of people we are.

Well, whatever works for you is fine with me.:)

[July]

215. Um, okay then.

It's not a "strategy" for me. It's something I bring up when they act like assholes (e.g., when they don't respond to the content of a Kennedy speech but instead say "Chappaquiddick, Chappaquiddick," as if that ends all debate.

[NWHarkness]

10. How old was Chelsea

when Limbaugh called her the White House dog?

Just askin'.

[July]

209. And when John McCain said that Janet Reno was her father.

Classy guy, no?

[robbedvoter]

11. Snopes: true. On any person with a conscience, causing a death should

leave a mark somewhere...
The perspective is this: what gives her the right to get all preachy with us on anything from stem cells to child rearing? Just being W's lump in the bed surely is not moral high ground. So we are left with her other "accomplishments": raising boozing depraved daughters, causing someone's death - anyone can add to those?

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I was flipping 17 years old once

and I was pretty wild. But I didn't kill anyone.

So yeah, this is a big deal.

[izzie]

34. Not me it is a too painful age. I went from 16 to 18 thank God

--

[saracat]

13. Please. I have perspective. I don't think she was innocent

It isn't necessarily crap. Snopes seems somewhat biased
and leaning in favor of Laura. I don't buy their conclusion that to ram his car she would have to be thinking of murder by suicide. Lot of wives have run over both husbands and mistresses with their cars. And it didn't have to be preplanned. It could have been an impulse. She has admitted dating the victim but whatever. I am not sad for her. They don't give Dem women 5 seconds worth of sympathy. When do they defend Joan Kennedy's drinking or Jackie's extravagences? Sorry. Laura doesn't get a break from me!

[NYCGirl]

24. Wives, etc., may run over husbands, but they rarely do it when they have

a friend in the car with them.

[saracat]

116. They do if they have teenage friends egging them on!

and many have been using the AWW, she was just 17 argument!

[NYCGirl]

136. I guess the friend must've not cared if she died in the crash then.

Because that very well might have happened.

[saracat]

262. Yup. Teenagerts think they are invincible.

[NYCGirl]

264. I must've missed all those stories about teens jumping off buildings and

shooting themselves, then. Deliberately crashing into a car at 50MPH would be comparable.

[saracat]

280. You must have. I know several that have done just those things!

And many teens have deliberately crashed their cars! Hey! They see it happen on TV and the people survive and have no consequences. Why would they think differently? Esp back then, in the heyday of those Bond movies and chase flicks?

[LibDemAlways]

15. What's important about it isn't so much that

the accident happened, but that the press has totally left her alone about it. Had Hillary been involved, you can bet the media whores would have had a field day with the story and every American would have known every detail. It certainly would have played a big role in the 92 Presidential race.

And, yes, accidents happen. But how many people actually kill someone while behind the wheel? And of those, how many get away without so much as a ticket?

[Taguba]

16. I use it when the GOP filth bring up Ted Kennedy.

They need a reality check some times. And I read He was her boyfriend and he just dumped her that night. and she was Drunk. Dont mess with a drunk pissed off future Bush.

[Deep13]

17. Bushes etc. dig out irrelevant skeletons all the time and just plain ...

...make shit up to smear the Ds. Pointing out failings in those close to Bush demonstrates how the rules apply to everyone but them.

[ThoughtCriminal]

18. The only reason it has up again

Was frankly the "I'd rather hunt with Cheney than Ride with Kennedy" right-wing talking point (or bumper sticker). Otherwise it would probably continue to be ignored. I don't pay much attention to the theories that it was not really an accident, but the death was Laura's fault. It seems that in the 60's that did not have the same kind of consequences - especially for certain families in Texas - not just the Bush's.

[izzie]

20. Good Point

and you should see if some GOP people would give some brakes to Dem. that made errors in their life 50 yeARS AGO ALSO. We carry sin for ever but in that party you are either 'born again' or it was 'youthful stuff' even if you were 45. It is a two way street on this.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Give me a fucking break! 8 years of a damn witch hunt on Clinton and

you don't want anything bad said about Pickles? Bwahahahahahahahahaha! Ya, OK.:eyes:

Have you heard? Pickles Bush killed her boyfriend because she was drunk and ran a stop sign.


<snip>
How fast Miss Welch might have been driving is open to question. That part of the police report is illegible (HOW CONVENIENT IS THAT?????) (PUHLEEEEEEEEZE!), although two biographies of the First Lady refer to her as having been going 50 mph at the time of the collision. The speed limit on that portion of road was 55 mph. According to the police report neither driver had been drinking, but no tests were performed. No charges were filed as a result of the accident.<snip>

[Thtwudbeme]

29. Please find ANYWHERE that I have posted where I wrote

"Don't say anything bad about Laura Bush."

Please.

She's a dumbass for not leaving her drunken, drug using jackass of a sperm donor years ago. For that matter, she was an idiot to marry the clown in the first place.

I hope they leave the WH in disgrace.

But, this urban legend BFEE shit about this wreck is just plain stupid.

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. It's TRUE! It's NOT stupid!

They portray themselves as the holier-than-thou-crowd and I beg to differ! She was DRUNK and speeding. Until they can PROVE she wasn't, I stand by my story.

[Thtwudbeme]

50. There is NO evidence she was drunk. You are melodramatic

and ridiculous.

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. They didn't do a test. How do you know she wasn't drunk? I say she was.

Prove to me she wasn't drunk.

Have you heard? Pickles Bush was drunk and ran a stop sign and killed her boyfriend.

[Rosco T.]

They 'Conveniently' did no tests... power has it's privlidge...

.. and yes, I misspelled that.

[rinsd]

135. Remeber the time period

And what was the testing procedure during that time beyond a field sobriety test? I would imagine it would involve drawing blood as the brethalyzer didn't exist.

While it is certainly possible that the officer simply let her go, the fact that non-observational testing wasn't done is not really an indicator of nefarious nature.

[Yupster]

249. She went to the hospital

That was probably considered more important as well as seeing if anything could be done for the victim.

Also you had two injured teenage girls and the dad of the victim on the scene. I could see why the cop wouldn't make his first priority seeing if the driver was drunk.

I am surprised a icket wasn't issued. I think today there certainly would be.

I do know for a fact that it wasn't because of political influence because having lived here for 25 years, I know which families have and had influence and the Welchs weren't one of them.

[Yupster]

248. What power?

The Welch family didn't have any power.

If it was the Bush's or the Scharbauers or the Midkiffs, then you could say they had power.

Laura was a high school kid who became a school librarian. Her family had no power in Midland.

[onenote]

54. ah yes, the great progressive value: guilty until proven innocent

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. Oh yes...g-d forbid anyone should say anything bad about a freakin' repuke

Give me a damn break and spare me your sarcasm.

Have you heard? Pickles Bush was drunk and ran a stop sign and killed her boyfriend. It's true.

[onenote]

151. prove it

its the American way.

No sarcasm this time.

[in_cog_ni_to]

154. No. You prove she wasn't drunk. It's the American way. n/t

[onenote]

169. LOL!

Thanks for the laugh.

[in_cog_ni_to]

171. My pleasure.

:evilgrin:

[Ms. Toad]

214. Last I heard,

The American way was innocent until proven guilty.

The Bush way is guilty until proven Innocent - and I've certainly read a lot of DU outrage of his implementation of that principle at Guantanamo and with warrantless wiretaps. I, for one, am not willing to join him in furthering that principle as "American," regardless of the identity of the alleged perpetrator.

[rinsd]

109. Closely followed by that other great "progressive" trait....

...invoking the "they did it" first defense.

[bleedingheart]

30. add to that the fact that Hillary and Chelsea have been

picked on relentlessly...

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. EXACTLY! n/t

[rinsd]

102. The "they did it first" argument? And we claim to be grown ups?

:shrug:

[bleedingheart]

120. neener neener neener

:evilgrin:

[FreedomAngel82]

227. She didn't even have to do community service either

I remember reading an interview with some friends of Laura's about this and they were like "oh poor Laura was so upset!" Personally I find Laura and George's relationship quite strange and interesting. They met and ninety days later married and you never see the people who "introduced them." Laura was also a pot smoker and drunk too just like George.

[Yupster]

250. Was there such a thing as Community Service

over 40 years ago? I don't know.

Also the guy who introduced them, Don Evans was until recently Secretary of Commerce. It's not like he's hiding out in a disguise.

[Yupster]

247. It's a perfectly straight road

pretty much bereft of traffic in the middle of no where. I'd say teenagers going 50 would be the absolute minimum. It is today anyway.

[iconoclastNYC]

22. Why wasn't she tried for involunary manslaughter?

[Lefty48197]

25. That murderous animal Laura Bush

Can you imagine if Hillary had killed somebody? Dear Lord, they would have dragged both her and Bill into the street and lynched them. The Republicans are SO LUCKY that we aren't them.

[smoogatz]

26. Seems to me the point of the story is that she got away with it.

Laura Welch nee Bush (or is it Bush nee Welch?) was the daughter of a wealthy family who killed someone either through malice or negligence, and apparently walked away without so much as a speeding ticket. That's just wrong, and emblematic of everything that's bad a bout Bushco.

[Benhurst]

104. Bush nee Welch. NT

[Nutmegger]

27. Everytime "they" bring up Kennedy

We're going to bring up Lady Bush.

[DelawareValleyDem]

35. So let's tell the whole story

She ran a stop sign. The accident reports has TWO boxes marked in the section Violations Contributing to Accident. She was not ticketed, let alone arrested, even though her recklessness caused a young man his life.

Her age can't be used as an excuse. Anyone not willing to accept the responsibilities of driving does not deserve to have the privilege. Finally, she is not the typical teen-aged driver. The typical teen aged driver never kills anyone.

Spelling edit

[Catherine Vincent]

41. Thanks for bringing up another thread on Laura Bush killing her boyfriend

I just know if this was Hillary, the right wingers and conservative media would never let her forget it.

[NYCGirl]

46. Good thing we're better than they are. NT

[Maraya1969]

49. This is the same as people bringing up Ted Kennedy all the time.

It has been 35 years and all the Repubs can say sometimes is someone died in Ted Kennedy's car.

We should not lower ourselves like that.

[FreedomAngel82]

228. Than YOU don't but do NOT speak for me

[Yupster]

251. No it's really not the same

Ted Kennedy was a 40 year old senator and his reaction to the accident was inexcusable, and he has agreed with that himself.

One should expect more responsible behavor from a senator than a 17 year old.

[Stephanie]

51. Good Queen Laura the Sacred Cow

Do not say mean things about Laura Bush! She has only dedicated her life to helping her heinous husband get elected and worked her ass off to enhance his image. Do not mention her car accidents or her pot-dealing or her face-lifts! Leave her alone! Don't be so MEAN. Nobody was mean to Hillary!

[Thtwudbeme]

56. Stephanie, I have never posted "don't say anything bad about Laura

Bush" in the entire 4 or 5 years I have been here.

I am saying this urban legend crap on DU is fucking ridiculous.

Isn't being the compliant wife of a war criminal bad enough without making shit up?

[Stephanie]

58. It's not made up. She killed him.

What's made up?

[Thtwudbeme]

62. That she was drunk, that she did it on purpose

and so forth.

[smoogatz]

72. That she was negligent at best? That she got away with it? That a poor

kid or a black kid or a Mexican kid who did the same thing would've been sent to jail or juvenile detention?

[truebrit71]

79. She wasn't tested for alcohol. She may (or may not) have just broken up..

...with the kid she killed...it was a clear night, no bad weather, excellent visibility....Yup, no booze or alternative theory could POSSIBLY be true right?

:eyes:

[FreedomAngel82]

229. She still killed him and did not serve her crime!

THAT is the truth!

[Stephanie]

83. Some things we'll never know the answers to - the records are sealed.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0743243838/102-0229217-9487365

Excerpt. © Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved.

Chapter One: Midland

We feel really fortunate to have grown up in West Texas where I think values are really rock solid. It's not very easy to be pretentious....West Texans will call you down immediately. I think that gave us a really solid base.

-- Laura Bush, in the Midland Star-Telegram, September 5, 2002

She was seventeen, a few days past her birthday in her senior year, a girl with her daddy's car keys. There was a party, on a weeknight. That wasn't much the sort of thing Jenna and Harold Welch let their girl do, go to a party in the middle of the week. But really, Laura was such a good girl, this only child of theirs, an angel, a love. She had never given them a moment's trouble. She was steady and smart and quiet, and her friends were the Brownies she knew from grade school. She always laughed at her father's jokes; he was a cutup, easy and friendly and open. She always sat by her mother, though. On visits to her grandmother some hours away, Laura and her mother would take turns reading in the car out loud to each other, the huge sky of West Texas arching out before them, vast and familiar, Manifest Destiny beckoning in the shimmering of the nighttime stars.

That sky, it let you see forever. Between Midland and Lubbock, some 150 miles apart, nothing stood but a few villages and scrub and electric poles and those lonely oil pumps, dipping up, swinging down, up and down, up and down, a rhythm that gave pace and purpose to an entire region. Midland proper was so orderly, a firm societal stand against the whims and sins of the prairie. There were no bars, and dozens of churches, and the streets were testament to the disciples of commerce who had delivered the good people from a lifetime of grit and toil. Laura lived on Humble Avenue, named, transparently enough, for one of the petroleum conglomerates; the next streets over were Shell and Sinclair. That was Midland in the 1960s, the Midland that Laura's father, Harold Welch, helped to build: Your aspirations could be realized in your address -- Lockheed or Cessna or Boeing avenues for the white-collar engineers, or Yale, Harvard, and Princeton avenues for the East Coast elites like George Herbert Walker Bush who came west to seek their fortunes in the fossils.

Those streets were laid out on a tidy grid, with millions of gallons of water sent to sustain lush lawns hardly native to West Texas, lawns that decades later Laura would decide were environmentally incorrect. The people in the houses liked to think they lived tidy lives -- two parents, a carport, drinks at the country club, touch football after church. Beyond the town limits was untameable terrain, a flat expanse of ranchland, parched brown and ocher, unbroken by trees. You could see for miles. And it was dry, and it was clear, and it was so bright at night under the star canopy, and there wasn't traffic back in those days, not like there is today, everybody hurrying over to the Target or the Sam's Club or the Jumburrito. So there would have been no reasonable excuse for even protective parents to say no to a daughter who wanted to go to a party, especially when she was such a good and responsible girl.

And so they said yes.

And Jenna would have had her book, and Harold would have had his television, and after a spell, the phone would have rung with the news, preceded with an, "Ah'm so sorry to have to tell you..." My word, she hadn't been gone but a little while, and now Laura's parents were being summoned to Midland Memorial Hospital.

Laura, they learned, had been speeding blithely out of town about 8 P.M., east on Farm Road 868, her high school friend Judy Dykes in the passenger seat. She never saw the stop sign. She never saw the other car. She plowed right through that stop sign and slammed hard into the 1962 Corvair coming south and with the right-of-way, on State Road 349, the La Mesa Highway. She was fine, really, the officer assured her parents, but bruised and banged up, and awfully upset. Judy was shaking but unharmed as well. But the boy in the other car, well, the force of the broadside impact was so severe that, well...He never had a chance. Michael Douglas, golden boy of Midland, high school track star, was dead on arrival at Midland Memorial Hospital. The two girls were taken there, too, in another ambulance. Mike Douglas's father had been driving another car behind his son. He saw the entire horrific scene, the explosive beginning of a nightmare that haunted him his whole life.

The front-page story in the Midland Reporter-Telegram was blunt and nonaccusatory. "Police said death was attributed to a broken neck," the paper reported, using that passive voice peculiar to newspaper writing. But the news flew through Midland about whose actions had caused that death.

Killing another person was a tragic, shattering error for a girl to make at seventeen. It was one of those hinges in a life, a moment when destiny shuddered, then lurched in a new direction. In its aftermath, Laura became more cautious and less spontaneous, more inclined to be compassionate, less inclined to judge another person.

What made the crash even more devastating was that the boy Laura killed was no stranger but a good friend of hers, a boy from her crowd. Some said Mike Douglas was her boyfriend. Or had been, or maybe she wanted him to be. Douglas was also a senior at Midland's Robert E. Lee High School, also seventeen. A star athlete, the kind of boy other boys wanted to be around, the kind of boy the girls sidled up to. That face and that grin stared out from the paper's front page the next day, under the headline "Lee High School Senior Dies in Traffic Mishap."

"I can see his face today," said Robert McCleskey, a contemporary of Laura's and the Bushes' personal accountant, when I interviewed him forty years later. "Always smiling. Just like his dad."

In Midland, Texas, in 1963, there were no grief counselors. No one had yet conceived of the need for such a job. And so the teenagers of Midland were at sea when it came to explaining and contemplating and coping with the shock and guilt and grief and existential angst that the young Laura Welch experienced. There were pastors who might comfort with a piece of Scripture, murmur, "Let us bow our heads in prayer," and ask for the Lord's healing power. There were parents, who might sit at the edge of their child's bed and pat a shoulder heaving with sobs. Mostly, Mike's death left his classmates stunned into silence. For most of them, and certainly for Laura, it was their first experience with someone dying young, behind the wheel. Another classmate had died a year before. Hit in the head during football practice, he was discharged from the hospital after a cursory examination, then went home and died. But with the gregarious, energetic Mike suddenly gone, the kids didn't know what to say. They didn't know what to do. They wept together at his funeral a few days later, groping toward comprehension, the girls falling apart in each other's arms, the boys stoically trudging into the Douglas home to visit the bereaved parents. "It was the first time you find you're not bulletproof and invincible," McCleskey recalled. "You don't have to deal with death. It was the first time we had to deal with all that."

Laura suffered alone. The pain was "crushing," she said years later. When all her friends went to Mike's funeral, she stayed home. Even her best friend then, who has grown to be her closest confidante, did not reach out to her. When I asked Regan Gammon, now a community activist in Austin, to recall how Laura coped with the accident, she said, "That was a very hard time. He was wonderful. It changed everyone in some way. I know I was so sad I might not have been able to see how sad Laura was. He was a very close friend of Laura's."

"Have you ever been around a high school where that sort of thing happened?" asked Tobia Hochman Gunesch, who had lived two doors down the street from Laura for much of her life and went on to become the salutatorian of Laura's graduating class. "There was a lot of high school girls' sobbing. I'm sure I never said anything directly to her, and I bet most people didn't."

[greatauntoftriplets]

110. What a piece of sap....gaaaaahhhh!!!

:puke:

Badly written.

[FreedomAngel82]

230. What shit, so why didn't she go to jail for KILLING HIM?!

The republicans want every woman who has an abortion to go to jail and their doctors who perform it but yet Laura Bush clearly killed someone and she gets off scott free. And yes every damn time they bring up Ted Kennedy I WILL bring this up. Those of you who do not like it tough shit. You don't speak for me.

[FreedomAngel82]

236. Some question's from me

If she was out in the middle of nowhere how could she not see the other car or the stop sign? My grandmother on my mom's side lives out in the middle of nowhere and I've gone on so many country roads all my life and YOU CAN tell stop signs and other cars. The roads are pretty straight and if there are hills they are little. I've also been out to Texas and I remember their roads are pretty straight and narrow. So that doesn't make any sense to me. The only way she couldn't have seen the sign is if she was drunk or lying. I've also read plenty of stories that Laura did like to party and she smoked pot and was the "go to" girl for the pot in her area and everyone knew it. Wasn't her family also very rich and elite? Funny how people drink and than go to church when drinking is supposed to be a big no to Christians (nobody in my family who is Christian drinks including my parents, brother and I). If Laura had so much guilt inside her why didn't she ever do any type of community service and why doesn't she today talk to kids about reckless driving? Or drunk driving and being careful at parties? Why didn't she ever have to go to jail for murdering someone? If she was your average seventeen year old girl why did they let her get away with it? Most seventeen year old kids wouldn't ever dream of getting off with murder. This just doesn't make any sense to me. And if Laura was such a close friend why didn't she go and give her sympathies to the parents of the boy? Don't most people usually at least try to make some type of peace with the victim if it truly was an accident? Wow I wonder what it's like to know you got away with murder. Has the father ever been interviewed?

[Yupster]

253. To not see the stop sign, she'd

have to really not be paying any attention at all because tody there are warnings that a stop sign is ahead since cars are going quite fast. I don't know if it was the same 40 years ago.

To not see the car is more easy to understand. Two cars going 50 miles per hour perpendicular to each other, you'd have to really make ann efort to look o your right to see the headlights from far away and even then they could be mistaken for a trailer, a lit pumpjack, or whatever.

The cars would only be within a couple of hundred yards from each other for a second or two and again only if you're looking that direction. So I can see her not seeing the car if she wasn't paying much attention.

To not see the stop sign, I can only assume she was completely not paying any attention at all. Maybe yucking it up with her friend or putting on make-up, etc.

[truebrit71]

71. No-one is making shit up. She killed someone in a car crash...

Next?

[Thtwudbeme]

81. Bullshit.

DUers are claiming she was drunk, and that she did it on purpose.

Next?

[in_cog_ni_to]

87. WTF! You do not know that she WASN'T drunk.

GEEZUSFUCKINGKRIST. Now THAT is ridiculous. YOU are DEFENDING something you don't even know to be true. WTF?Sheesh!

[Thtwudbeme]

93. omg...the melodrama

Please show me where I wrote "I KNOW she was sober!"

Please.

[in_cog_ni_to]

113. Ahhhh...so now you're changing your tune. She COULD HAVE BEEN DRUNK?

Here's your post.....

Bullshit.
DUers are claiming she was drunk, and that she did it on purpose.

Next?


I've NEVER seen a DUer claim she did it on purpose. Please show me that post. I'll be waiting.

[truebrit71]

101. No tests were done. It was a perfectly clear night.

She couldn't see the headlights of the car approaching hers at a 90 degree angle?

Next thing you'll be telling me is that Gore lost the vote in Florida in 2000.... :eyes:

[FreedomAngel82]

231. She murdered someone

Next?

[slor]

146. LOL...Amen...

heaven forbid anyone pick on this fucking family, why, it might hurt their "beautiful" fucking "minds"!

[f-bush]

53. You know, I don't give a shit if it was an accident or not

and I don't care that it was x number years ago etc etc...she still did it and she happens to be married to the president which belongs to a political party that loves to flip shit at oppenents. That makes her open season as far as I am concerned and if spreading that shit around gains just one vote, as far as I am concerned, it's worth it!

[JitterbugPerfume]

Thanks

ranting over and over about this makes us look like a bunch of schmucks

[JitterbugPerfume]

55. deleted

[fasttense]

57. Ok, during my teenage years I drank like a fish and drove my car

and never got into any wrecks and never killed anyone. I'm about Laura's age and legal drinking age back then in some states was 17. Back then the cops would tell you to go home and sleep it off if they caught you drinking and driving. I'm not kidding. Folks made jokes about drunk drivers but didn't realize how truly dangerous they, we, were.

But I never ever killed anyone or even had an accident while drinking. Maybe I was lucky, maybe I was careful. But I never killed anyone and I made a point of not driving when I was seriously drunk. Since then, I've changed my ways and don't hardly drink let alone consider drinking and driving.

I just wonder how much more reckless Laura must have been to have killed someone. I don't know, it just seems to me that her money probably protected her and some other family had to suffer for her carelessness. I'm sure she has learned her lesson but at whose expense?

[NYCGirl]

67. Her money? Was she from a wealthy family? NT

[fasttense]

150. She was a whole lot richer than I was.

Maybe by your standards she was not well to do but I grew up with five brothers and sisters. For us to go get a soda was considered a very special treat. To go out to eat was a gift. I would have loved to have that white middle class life she had. My parents tried but with six children finances wouldn't allow it. Yes I believe her father's status in the community and their wealth protected her or at least gave her a careless attitude.

[onenote]

282. it was a treat to get a soda, but you had money to get drunk

[Yupster]

255. It was a middle class

1950's family.

They were not politically involved or politically connected.

[FreedomAngel82]

241. And she was supposivley a "good girl"

[Yupster]

254. Just a few days ago there was a good DU thread

It said the Democratic Party message could be summed up in one phrase and that one phrase was "there for the grace of god go I".

You and many other teenagers drove drunk and did many other very dangerous things and never got in an accident. Other teenagers drove drunk and killed themselves or someone else.

There for the grace of god go I.

[OKNancy]

60. I agree

Having known a sweet teenager who did almost the same thing ( a student of mine)
I have a lot of sympathy toward the situation.
It's an unproductive argument and mean spirited.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Thtwudbeme]

90. Oh crap

See you later, dear.

[truebrit71]

203. What a stunningly intelligent response...

:eyes:

[Stephanie]

89. she is not a "bush apologist"

you're so wrong there

[Thtwudbeme]

97. who in the world are you talking to?

;)

[Stephanie]

100. that brit!

doesn't he know who you ARE? :)

[truebrit71]

117. Someone that calls a fellow liberal, a freeper...

..that's all I know about this person...

Oh, that and the fact that they can't debate to save themselves...

[Thtwudbeme]

122. S/he screwed up and thought I was the Cool Stephanie

You know, someday we are going to have to have a "Stephanie DU get-together" except that that's creepy and like "Heathers...."

OMG, a Lounge thread in the making!!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

243. LOL! What a joke!

How come she's brought out than every time dear Georgie needs help such as with Sam Alito's wife and Harriet Miers? LOL!!! Please you just aren't paying attention are you? LOL. That's the most hilarious thing I've heard!

[Balbus]

193. The OP is probably the last person on this board

that would be considered a Bush apologist.

[EOTE]

64. Turn about is fair play.

She is in politics. If the idiot pugs would stop talking about the equally ancient Chappaquidick incident, I'd shut up about the accident as well. As it is, they need something to shut them up.

[formerrepuke]

70. The OP has a point. But she's the only 1st lady who ever killed someone.

[smoogatz]

77. Funny--Cheney's the first VP to shoot someone since Aaron Burr.

They keep making history. We just record it.

[Marie26]

74. It's mean. True, but mean. nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. LMAO Are You For Real? Of All The Things To Post About This Is Your

passion? :rofl:

Yeah, that's what us libs need right now with everything going on, a good preaching to about Laura killing her ex-boyfriend LOL Thanks for this public service announcement. I'm sure it'll just get raves from the members here as to its importance in these troubling times. :rofl:

[onehandle]

84. She's got a long way to catch up with smirk...

...who kills people on purpose for profit.

[liveoaktx]

91. She DID kill someone .. whether she MURDERED deliberately is a

a separate issue. Laura Bush, who is a liar and a chump, can certainly have a spotlight shone on her past.

[China_cat]

98. I think the object is that it wasn't JUST

an 'accident'. She was driving drunk at the time.

[Thtwudbeme]

105. why do you believe that?

the true answer is "because you want to."

I don't mind that; but try not to post it like it's a proven fact. There is no evidence of this.

[China_cat]

153. Except her own admission

on Good Morning America to Diane Sawyer.

[rinsd]

173. Laura Bush admitted she was drunk on GMA?

[China_cat]

180. In a round about way that was very clear.

She said that at that time of her life her actions were very much like that of her own daughters. (Dubya's drunks) And that if she'd used better judgement, the 'accident' would never have happened.

Considering the reports of weather, road conditions and traffic at the time, what would YOU think those words meant?

[bobbieinok]

224. was that the interview when she told of 1 time she disagreed with

something W said when he was driving and he ran into something and scared her????

saw this statement discussed at salon's tabletalk in the 2000 campaign

[China_cat]

261. A continuation of that one

There were 2 parts on 2 different days.

I've watched her reactions when with * and truly believe that she's being abused. Not where it will show readily but before she started looking like a robot painted with her face, she used to have an involuntary flinch reaction whenever he'd get too close to her, reach for her or even look like he was going to put a hand on her. It's a reaction I'm very familiar with.

[bobbieinok]

279. salon tabletalk discussion was basically 'how can US allow a wife

abuser become president??'

[adriennui]

103. laura did kill her friend in an auto accident

i'm sure she regrets it every day of her life. at that point she wasn't involved with the chimp so why would there have been a cover up?


what i really would like to know is what was incurious george the chimp doing all those lost years when he was supposedly in the national guard, doing community service, his many trips to mexico, etc.


where was he, any photos of the asshole during those years? any girl or boyfriends? dancing nude at bars, abortions, giving it to kkkarl in the behind, DUIs.

the pubs spent years investigating bill clinton......
we know everything about clinton and all we could find out is that he likes women....and for that he was impeached.

[FreedomAngel82]

244. Why wouldn't their be a cover up?

Well gee why didn't she go to jail than?

[Occulus]

268. "why would there have been a cover up?"

There wasn't- THEN.

The scrubbing happened AFTER she married into the rich, internationally politically connected, powerful Bush family. And you can bet rel good money on that being true, because that's the MO for these types.

They just can't handle having spots on their family records. Too dangerous for them to have loose ends dangling that people can later dig up.

[Minnesota Libra]

106. Thtwudbeme, I haven't figured out yet whether.......

......this is simply a slow news day for some people or they are trying to give new meaning to the term "conspiracy theorist".

I'm the first one to usually believe any "conspiracy theory" about this administration. Even so, I don't buy into the idea that Laura killing the guy was anything but a very tragic mistake by a teenager.

Laura probably does more to herself in her self-recriminations than anyone else could do to her.

[robbedvoter]

139. How do you know of self-recriminations? The way she reared her kids?

What proof did you ever get that she ever regreted what she did?
All I see is a high and mighty empress telling people why they shouldn't benefir from stem cell research or accept being spied on. Why assume remorse? What did she ever do in her life to amount to that? Name one UNSELFISH act! (and son't forget the adopted kid they sent back when she got pregnant)

[FreedomAngel82]

245. What's the deal with the adopted kid?

I never heard that one I don't think. Interesting. How selfish.

[stepnw1f]

107. She Married a Murderer

So go cry us a river, then jump in it. What a load of bullshit!

[The Backlash Cometh]

108. And Henry Hyde was 40 when he had his youthful indiscretion.

You have to stop thinking like a Liberal if you want to beat these Mayberry Machiavellis.

[in_cog_ni_to]

166. Exactly right. You have to play their game. n/t

[benburch]

112. In prespective?

In perspective she killed a guy she had just had a nasty breakup with as their cars collided at an isolated intersection.

It was covered over and made nice nice at the time because her daddy was rich, but it was murder,

So, go ahead and quote snopes as an authority... They also said for years that the Bin Ladens were not evacuated from the USA after 9/11...

[slor]

118. Amen Brother Burch...

all the shit these fuckers have wrought on this world, and he wants to defend pickles murdering her boyfriend? That is just wrong.

[in_cog_ni_to]

158. The OP is a SHE.....

;)

:hi:

[truebrit71]

134. BINGO!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

:thumbsup:

[BiggJawn]

119. "I'd STILL rather hunt with Dick Cheney than drive with Ted Kennedy!"

As long as the Ditto-Monkeys want to bring up Chappaquiddick, I feel perfectly good and tingly telling the "Laura Welch ran over her old boyfriend" story.

[in_cog_ni_to]

127. Thank you, BiggJawn. ME too!

:hug:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

124. And if Hillary or Tipper or Teresa had done the same thing.......

....wanna bet it would not only be bought up and joked about, but made into a full fledged talking point for the right?

[NYCGirl]

131. And that's why we think the right are shitheads. NT

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

137. But we aren't bringing it up every five minutes.....

......in fact, I'm willing to bet even the most politically informed people don't know a thing about it. Most don't even know about Dumbya and Dicky's DUIs.

But the right will never let anyone forget any scandal a Dem has been involved in.

[rinsd]

147. A new slogan for the left, "We're sitheads too, just not as big"?

[im10ashus]

129. Get a grip man.

When you hold the highest office in the country you and your whole family should be open to scrutiny. She's certainly no exception.

[Pastiche423]

130. The truth: Laura Welch killed a guy

There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. She was the driver of a car that crashed into another car killing its driver.

Just like Dead-Eye Dick shot a man IN THE FACE, Laura killed a guy.

FACTS!

TRUTH!

Our country and the world, because of our Madministration, is going to hell in a hand basket. I will use every fact available to fight their march into armageddon. Including the FACT that Laura Welch Bush KILLED A GUY!

[Skittles]

141. I agree

it was a terrible mistake by an inexperienced driver

[EC]

144. And Kennedy's accident was a plot?.. n/t

[Yupster]

256. I don't see the benefit of bringing up Kennedy's accident

He behaved horribly after the accident and has said so himself.

[hyphenate]

148. It doesn't matter to me

that she had an accident. However, I really do think it's a story when all of the records pertaining to the incident were mostly purged or wiped clean when George got into the governor's office in Texas, and that no one mentions it when Ted Kennedy is being cited daily--nay, hourly--for the accident in Chappaquidick. If we are to continue to listen to the bullshit on Kennedy, then the case involving a young Laura should also be cited for the same reasons, and once the Chappaquidick/Kennedy story goes away, so will my reiteration of the Laura accident.

Freepers and nasty fuck pukes like to bring up the Kennedy incident and Robert Byrd's membership in the KKK when he was young. But when we try to bring up GWB's drinking, his DUI, his addiction to cocaine and other such events from the past, they always respond by saying that people are allowed to change and that the past isn't important. So why is it that such shit from GWB's past is sacrosanct and those incidents from Kennedy and Byrd are not? Double standards such as these are not only frustrating, but reflect a mind that is backwards and definitely nasty.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

159. Raise your hand if you've killed somebody.

[slackmaster]

162. I was FRAMED!

:nuke:

[rinsd]

164. Does shooting a man just to watch him die count?

[Catherine Vincent]

168. Locking!

Laura Bush ran a stop sign and killed her ex boyfriend, unfortuntely. She got off. Case closed.

[in_cog_ni_to]

170. And she was DRUNK. Don't forget that. She may have been high on pot

too...she use to be a dealer.

[rinsd]

175. And she ripped out the guy's heart as an offering for George (nt)

[im10ashus]

267. You are too funny.

:rofl:

[leftofthedial]

176. she killed someone

true or false?

true.

Laura Bush killed her ex-boyfriend.

[mitchum]

183. DAMN! LAURA BUSH KILLED SOMEONE? THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP!

[savemefromdumbya]

184. was she stoned at the time?

[Rex]

186. Jumped into the fire I see.

:popcorn:

[Ksec]

189. Its like them always bringing up Chappiquidack.

Not nice, but done regularly.

[burythehatchet]

190. Holy cripes! Laura Bush killed her boyfriend???

Damn!

[Ksec]

191. Yep. She murdered that poor guy deader than a doorknob

And then skated because she was a priveledged Republican.

[burythehatchet]

192. So she didn't get charged with Vehicular Homocide?

That's good because if they had searched her car they might have found a lot of weed because she was dealing dope at the time. Luckeeeeee...

[Ksec]

194. Nope, Laura murdered her boyfreind and got away with it.

Not even a breathalizer administered.

Can you imagine?

Whats the odds of killing your spouse at an intersection? Of all the people , your boyfreind just happened to be the one that crossed thru that intersection at the exact same time as Laura did. The odds are astronomical. It was just an accident....right.

[Thtwudbeme]

195. I can't imagine the officer not giving her a breathalyzer in 1963!!

because we all know that type of technology was commonly available then.

Laura probably was already on the cell phone with her future husband's attorney's too---

[Ksec]

197. Well , you may have a point but drunk drivers were put away back then

And you must admit that those two people meeting at that busy intersection at the same exact time would be like hitting the lottery twice in a row.

[fasttense]

212. The tech was available but the cops didn't use it.

I had a friend pulled over for drunk driving and the cops told me to drive her home. No ticket no nothing, this was in 1973. In 1963 drunk driving was probably ignored as well.

[Yupster]

257. She wasn't nothing at the age of 17

The voting age back then was 21.

When she went to work for the school district she voted Democratic when she bothered to vote. She only became a Republican when she married Bush.

[LittleClarkie]

200. As soon as they put Teddy Kennedy's mishap in perspective

I'll put Laura's in perspective.

[indie_voter]

206. BINGO!!! n/t

[TallahasseeGrannie]

207. Yes, this kind of juvenile accusations and smearing

make me want to just forget about politics and give up, never read the news, forget about voting and live my life in the garden. And I'm including the RW and Chappaquidick and all the folks who cheer when somebody on the other side gets sick, has a heart attack, cancer...the folks who call the Bush twins slut whores and Chelsea a dog and Hilary Clinton a dyke and bitch about what color somebody's wife and kids wore or decide that they just "look gay." It is all beneath us ALL, right and left.

But it is also the way we are.

Specifically in regards to this accident, young Laura would have to be a professional stunt driver to know just how to hit this car and kill that kid.

[kittenpants]

275. well-said

and there are worse things than spending your life in your garden, but we'd miss you here!

[Coexist]

210. Just for fun:

http://euskalherria.indymedia.org/es/2004/09/16744.shtml
<snip>
At the north edge of town, Laura turned her big new Chevrolet Impala left again, heading east on farm-to-market (FM) road FM 868.

Meanwhile, Michael was leaving his home on Solomon Drive, heading east toward the highway, state route 349, a couple hundred yards away. From here, he would turn right, south, on 349 toward the fateful meeting at FM 868.

If Laura or Judy was watching, they could see Michael's car, or at least its headlights, on his street, Solomon Dr., which paralleled FM 868 and was the first street to the north.

Later, Laura reported she didn't even see his headlights even as he, headed south, approached the intersection with FM 868. In the 1000 yards to the intersection, he had time to accelerate to the legal speed limit of 65 mph.

The police report said it was dark but that, otherwise, driving conditions were ideal. It is easy to overlook a car in daytime, but on a dark night, it is hard not to notice the headlights of an approaching car, about the only light around, except for what one's headlights illuminate.
:evilgrin:

[AndyA]

213. We will likely never know the details about this accident

But there was something significant enough about it that the records were sealed. If there's nothing to hide, why go to the trouble? No one really cares about a few parking tickets, or a few speeding tickets.

Everything about the Bush family is shrouded in secrecy. WHY? What are they protecting? What are they hiding?

This could have just been an accident, a tragic one where someone was killed.

As long as people keep bringing up Kennedy's accident, I say Laura's is fair game. No one seems to be reluctant to bring up Ted Kennedy's accident - the details of which were more widely known to the public at the time.

The Bush family has gone to great lengths to cover their tracks. The real question here is: If there's nothing to hide, why go to the trouble?

[FreedomAngel82]

216. So why now did she get away with it?

They can rag on Ted Kennedy so can I with Laura Bush. Don't like it? Too bad, it's reality!

[Catherine Vincent]

219. I thought I locked this thread!

I guess I have no pull here. :-)

[depakid]

232. Hey- the woman DID kill someone AND she was negligent

That, my friend IS A CRIME and one that would have landed most anyone else in jail.

Had the tables been turned- the far right would have been apoplectic and never let it slip from the media. Every single person in America would know about it

That's one reason why they win. They're willing to get nasty and do what it takes to tear down an opponent.

Dems, on the other hand- jut want to play nice and would rather be abused themselves than do what it takes. That's why they lose- and when the lose, we all lose.

[Cleita]

238. I waited a long time to disagree, but

I think I have to get personal here. I was forced to kill a dog who came in my way when my father was teaching me to drive. The dog was involved with a dog fight and came my way across the road. I made a choice to go into the shoulder of the road (gravel) to let the dogs move on. My father grabbed the wheel, ran the dog over, and then yelled at me to keep going.

It put a big rift between him and me because all his arguments about endangering my life over a crappy animal didn't make sense to me. But I know how little regard some rural people have for animals, my father being one of them.

So I think that Laura may have thought she was shoving some animal out of the way because that is the way some people think about all the critters who share the earth with us. She was taught this in Texas. I know. I lived in Texas for awhile and talked to the ranch people and they really believe that animals are here for our purpose and that it doesn't matter the pain that we put them through because, as far as they are concerned, they are no different than plants.

But I think that Laura may have believed that whatever was in front of her was some sort of animal so she thought it was okay to get it out of her way.

Now I am going to get every Texan in the world pissed off with me, but to tell the truth, the most roadkill I ever saw in the western USA was in Texas.

[Yupster]

258. There never was anything in front of her

The cars were riding at right angles to each other when they crossed.

The other car would have been in front of Laura's car for a fraction of a second.

[FreedomAngel82]

239. Here's some more interesting stuff on the event

I googled Michael Douglas and Laura Welch and found this information.

According to USA Today ( http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e1698.htm ) Laura was on her way to meet him and not on her way home. She ran through the stop sign and she broadsided his car and he died immediatley. His car was a small Covar. Here's the intry about what happened according to Kitty Kelly's book.

Link: https://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/1719472.php

Snip: < This is one of the stories investigated thoroughly in the unauthorized (very) biography by Kitty Kelley, "The Bush Family," which tells of the deeds of the Bush family and how they have been covered up.

At about 7:30 p.m. on November 6, 1963, Laura Welch left her family home at 2500 Humble Ave. in Midland, Texas, after some sort of incident. She headed north on Lanham St. and, after four blocks, turned right and stopped to pick up her girlfriend, Judy Dykes, at 2409 Neely Ave.

A couple of blocks east, Laura headed north again on North Garfield St. and headed out of town in the direction of her boyfriend's house.

Michael Dutton Douglas, also 17 and also a senior at Lee High School, left his home before Laura got into the vicinity. He left with his dad close behind, perhaps in pursuit.

At the north edge of town, Laura turned her big new Chevrolet Impala left again, heading east on farm-to-market (FM) road FM 868.

Meanwhile, Michael was leaving his home on Solomon Drive, heading east toward the highway, state route 349, a couple hundred yards away. From here, he would turn right, south, on 349 toward the fateful meeting at FM 868.

If Laura or Judy was watching, they could see Michael's car, or at least its headlights, on his street, Solomon Dr., which paralleled FM 868 and was the first street to the left.

Later, Laura reported she didn't even see his headlights even as he, headed south, approached the intersection with FM 868. In the 1000 yards to the intersection, he had time to accelerate to the legal speed limit of 65 mph.

The police report said it was dark but that, otherwise, driving conditions were ideal. It is easy to overlook a car in daytime, but on a dark night, it is hard not to notice the headlights of an approaching car, about the only light around, except for what one's headlights illuminate. In fact, Laura could have seen Michael's car even sooner, driving down his road, parallel to her path.

That night, Laura didn't see the headlights of Michael's Corvair. As she approached the state highway doing 50-something miles per hour, according to the police report, she didn't see the stop sign either, she said.

Michael's little Corvair was no match for Laura's new land barge. The collision swung his car around fully three-quarters of a turn and set it skidding 50 feet to the east, in the same direction Laura's car was heading. It was like a billiard ball approaching from your left, and you hit it and it goes more or less straight away from you.

Michael died of a broken neck, at the scene. His father, who was following him, arrived seconds after the wreck. Laura was unhurt and Judy had insignificant injuries.

The police report noted that Laura committed two violations of traffic laws that contributed to the wreck: "Disregard stop sign or signal" and ""

In the box labeled "Is investigation complete?", the police officer checked "No."

The officer went through all the proper motions: measured the skid marks, diagramed the wreck, went to the hospital to check on the dead (Michael) and others (Laura and Judy). He took statements from the survivors and photos of the wreckage. The next day, he filed his report.

He did not issue a citation to Laura Welch!!!! The investigation apparently was never completed. No grand jury was convened.

Laura had killed the most popular boy at school, more popular than Tommy Frank, also a student there, who later would become an Army general and lead US forces in the invasion of Iraq. She stayed home until about Christmas. >

The Douglas family later moved from Midland. Some other interesting information:

Snip: < Media reports have appeared in "Reader's Digest" and other places with incorrect facts that would seem to be ameliorating circumstances. For example: Michael Douglas was driving an open Jeep, from which he could easily be thrown. The wreck happened right after a thunderstorm, which would imply that the pavement was wet and slick.

The fact is, Michael was driving a closed sedan that was very small and no match for Laura's much larger car. The pavement was dry, as the officer checked the box on the police report form. Laura never bothered to correct these and other misstatements, including the one that she was not Michael's girlfriend. She will not acknowledge the accident or even her relationship with the victim even to this day.

The true facts came out when the police report was released in 2000, 37 years after the fact, also after the Midland city attorney refused to release the report. The Texas attorney-general compelled the release of the report after a newspaper in another Texas town, Odessa, filed a Freedom of Information Act request. >

The report is also on the link provided.

[Yupster]

259. Is any car a match

for a car hitting its drivers door at 50 + miles per hour?

I don't think it mattered much what he was driving.

A car plows into your driving seat going 50 miles an hour and you're dead.

Also the chances of a young man in 1963 wearing a seatbelt would be about 0 % not that that would have probably made any difference anyway.

[SammyWinstonJack]

252. What I find amazing is that this thread has 200+ responses.

:wow: As if this will get us anywhere and as if it matters in the larger picture? The bush family for generations are scum and truly Un American and still they reign supreme among the morans in this country. That is what is amazing.

[robbedvoter]

270. An inflamatory original post would do that on almost any topic

We were challenged to not talk about it (while none of us was0, so it raised an universal :wtf:

[upi402]

260. Do freepers give Ted Kennedy a break? Clinton whacking Foster?

Though cookies if her reputation is sullied. She has benefitted from the suffering of Americans. And for all these users and enablers I have no pity.
:nopity:
"Guyyyiyee! Like jeez! I mean my rep is like totally trashed now!"

[Little Star]

269. The family of Laura Welsh were wealthy in Midland

(snip)
Welch built five of Midlands housing developments, which made him a wealthy man by small-town standards.
(snip)

Read more here:
http://euskalherria.indymedia.org/es/2004/09/16744.shtml

[in_cog_ni_to]

271. Well, well, well. Would ya look at that?

Little miss rich girl kills her boyfriend while drunk and never has to pay for the crime because her daddy is who he is...A WEALTHY MIDLAND BUSINESSMAN. I'm Shocked! Shocked! Shocked!

[Little Star]

274. When you have the dough

cops can over look a lot of their usual investigative techniques.
The poor Welches lived in such poverty! :tinfoil hat: NOT!!!!

[LisaL]

272. Accident or not, she did kill him.

[Rhiannon12866]

276. Good point. Here's a relevant take on this from Arianna online:

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434

[TallahasseeGrannie]

277. In this article

he mentions the fact that "she is the first lady" hence all records should be opened.

I disagree. She didn't run for office. She was not innaugerated. What she says, does, thinks, writes, dances, plays, eats, dreams or makes love to should have no relevance to us whatsoever.

[FreedomAngel82]

278. She ruined that when she campaigned for him

[Catherine Vincent]

281. This thread hasn't died yet?

:evilgrin: