How is it they went from 160,000 trained Iraqi Troops to NONE

[Postman]

The number of Iraqi army battalions judged by their American trainers to be capable of fighting the insurgency without U.S. help has slipped from one to none since September, Pentagon officials said Friday.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/breaking_news/13954682.htm

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Maybe because they were lying in the first place?

[serryjw]

2. The last number I heard was 9,000

and I'm sure that was an inflated lie. We are taking National guard troops and teaching them to be soldiers in hand to hand combat...You can only fight the insurgency IF you are prepared to die for your freedom. WHY should they IF OUR troops are dying instead?

[fooj]

6. You think?

:grr:

[brokensymmetry]

3. Because...

they put the pResident in charge of training them. It worked like a black hole - sucking their minds into nothingness.

Not a pretty sight....

:evilgrin:

[yurbud]

4. It's not a matter of needing training, it's whether they obey us

same problem as Vietnam.

How is it that one part of the country is perfectly competent to be insurgents and the other part can't get it together in the war we are directing?

Because the insurgents are fighting for their country, and troops we are training are fighting for a paycheck.

[teach1st]

5. Some numbers

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/18/bush-admits-administration-misled-on-number-of-trained-iraqi-troops/

Bush 12/18/05:

Reconstruction efforts and the training of Iraqi Security Forces started more slowly than we hoped. … At this time last year, there were only a handful of Iraqi army and police battalions ready for combat.

Rumsfeld, 12/8/04

Their security forces, as I mentioned earlier, are – oh, they’re now up to something like 110<000>, 120,000 — up from zero. And they are putting their lives at risk as well…they’re being trained rapidly…

[bigtree]

7. dig these

Here's Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace, testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee Feb.8:

Pace said only one Iraqi army battalion is capable of fighting without U.S. help. That is the same number as in September, when U.S. commanders disclosed that the number of such highly trained battalions had dropped from three to one, prompting criticism from lawmakers.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/sanmateocountytimes/news/ci_3486910


here's U.S. Army Col. James Greer, chief of staff for the U.S. military command responsible for training Iraqi troops today, Feb. 14:

"In an interview, U.S. Army Col. James Greer, chief of staff for the U.S. military command responsible for training Iraqi troops, said 40 of Iraq's 102 battalions have taken over security in the areas where they operate. A typical Iraqi battalion has 700 to 800 soldiers.

Greer said he sees the process speeding up, as in March 2005, there were only three battalions manning their own areas in Baghdad, he said. But now, Iraqi battalions are taking control in violent areas such as parts of Fallujah, Ramadi and Samarra."

http://www.washtimes.com/upi/20060214-104055-9071r.htm

[Bigmack]

8. Two things....

First, I think the US and it's "private contractors" have taught some Iraqi troops VERY well.... witness the bodies that keep turning up every morning. The death squads appear to be well disciplined and trained.

Second, last nite on PBS news, Shields made a great point. He noted that the USMC takes kids from every background.... from ghetto to suburb, and hammers them into a cohesive fighting force in 16 weeks. He's exaggerating a bit, but he makes a great point. The US can't build an Iraqi army... never could, never will.

[Arkansas Granny]

9. The troop numbers that the government has been so proud of

putting out in the media have always been disputed by people who are in a position to know. The truth has finally caught up with them.

[stillcool]

10. I wonder if anyone knows...

WTF is going on. The number of PMC's alone is astonishing...to me. And, with all that private security...and many of those company's hire Iraqi's...how does anyone know who's who?

http://www.basicint.org/pubs/Research/2004PMC.htm

In response to a request from Congress the CPA did compile a report listing 60 PMCs with an aggregate total of 20,000 personnel.66 That number included U.S. citizens, third-country nationals and Iraqis. But the CPA list is obviously incomplete, missing, for
example, CACI and Titan personnel, both implicated in the Abu Ghraib
prison scandal.67 Most of the armed personnel are the 14,000 Iraqi guards who work the oil field contract for Erinys. Global Risk Strategies, said to be the largest PMC in Iraq, employs 1000-1200; Blackwater has about 600; SOC-SMG 300; Triple Canopy about 350; Control Risks Group 750; Olive 265; DynCorp 175. Of the 60 PMCs that the CPA identified as working in Iraq only eight have direct contracts with the CPA, for obligations
currently totaling about $147m: $8.14m appropriated dollars and $66.5m in funds from the Development Fund for Iraq. PMC operations in Iraq tread the difficult line in providing protection in a manner that meets the intricate demands of corporate, military and government ethics, and come at significant cost. To date, at least 58 non-Iraqi PMC personnel (excluding those who worked as truck drivers and the like) have died. If one includes Iraqi PMC personnel the toll is much larger. The PMC firm Erinys alone has had about 21 killed and 26 wounded thus far.68 Appendix 1 contains more details on PMC casualty figures.

[izzie]

11. The Field Marshals at DOD are nuts.

All the good ones are gone because they did not speak the party line.It is like the Germans and the Div. that were just sitting around waiting to save Berlin.

[Postman]

12. Even some of the "party-line" troops have left...

Wilkerson and Powell to name 2

[izzie]

13. Powell I think was used badly. I think he was for votes only

He did his job but I think he got in over his head and did not know they would use him so badly. President and Vice were running the whole thing. Even if Bush does not seem to always know what he is doing I am sure he knows what he wants. He leaves how to do it to any one who will do it.