"Submission" by Theo Van Gogh

[Mizmoon]

I posted this the other day, but I wanted the weekend people to see it too.
Lots of folks have never actually seen Theo Van Gogh's film "Submission". It's about ten minutes long. I had to watch it a few times to really get it. Here it is if you'd like to see it:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=846339861805446088&q=submission+Van+Gogh

[Taxloss]

1. He paid for that film with his life.

The actress is still in hiding.

[Mizmoon]

2. In one part the actress says to Allah in her prayers:

"I shall never see the people and places of the world because it is so important to You that I guard my modesty."

Heavy shit, man.

[im10ashus]

3. K&R!

Thanks for sharing this.

:kick:

[JDPriestly]

4. I can't play the video.

[im10ashus]

5. Do you have Macromedia?

You can choose to download it on Windows or Mac. :shrug:

[JitterbugPerfume]

6. sigh

I have tried to down load Macromedia and it just will NOT download

[im10ashus]

7. There is a link to the right of the page.

Or you can click that download button for whichever system you use (i.e. Mac/Windows or iPod). Hope that helps. :shrug:

[JDPriestly]

9. Thanks.

[leveymg]

8. Theo takes a universal problem -- the abuse of women, particularly

poor women in developing countries -- and tries to particularize it as a problem with Islam.

At best, the film is exploitative of women's vulnerabilities. Its message deceives rather than reveals a greater truth. As such, this isn't art. It's propaganda.

Mr. Van Gough wasn't an artist like his great-great uncle, or even a kind man like his namesake. He muddied his family name, and committed the greatest sin against himself - he wasted what little talent he had in the name of a lie.

I grieve for his waste of a life.

[Mizmoon]

11. I don't think he'd call it anything other than propaganda

propaganda - The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

He was a bastard, but the film is very interesting.

[leveymg]

13. I didn't say it wasn't interesting. I said it wasn't art.

The Sistine Chapel was intended to propagate the faith, but its form is so beautiful that it transcends the intended purposes of its patrons. It doesn't limit the viewer, it liberates everyone who sees it.

We can view the Sistine Chapel critically, and question the validity of the underlying Biblical teachings that it depicts, but there is nothing in the paintings themselves that deprives the viewer of understanding.

Van Gogh's movie, on the other hand, is not only mediocre art -- it's not particularly creative in its dramatic approach or cinemagraphic methods. What really negates whatever asthetic value it might have is its clumsy message. As I posted above, it's message is not honest. It is obviously, self-consciously deceptive. Unfortunately, that also robs the actress, who is physically beautiful, of the accomplishment of her otherwise competent performance.

After sitting through it, the only interest "Submission" held for me is as a study in propaganda film-making, and as an example of how a troubled individual can provoke his own suicide by assassination.

[Mizmoon]

15. Art is in the eye of the beholder

you didn't see art. Others did. Such is the nature of art.

[bloom]

14. People should keep in mind

that you could make a similar film about abused women in the US and insinuate that it is the fault of the Christian Churches. The American women may not wear a veil - but the abuse some women suffer is not all that different.

I saw Theo's movie as designed to generate hatred of Muslims.

[Mizmoon]

16. Theo's movie was cowritten and acted by a Muslim woman

who asked him to help her show what she saw as the plight of her fellow Islamic women.

[FloridaPat]

10. Thanks.

[bridgit]

12. we were just speaking on this over breakfast, these are not the sins...

the innate sins of allah/god/god/allah, these are the sins of 'hakims', or 'earls', or 'fill in the name', from within whatever society they are preying upon woman that theo has paid for as well.

perhaps an article of faith, but it is man that has cast woman beneath veils her oft times beauty a force many common men are unable to attenuate, or deal with in close proximity thus...she is covered. enshrining as well among the ultimate taboo = that what some of us will then covet from afar.

thanks for the link