US taxpayers to rebuild Golden Mosque in Iraq

[JohnnyRingo]

Actually, that's not the headline we're seeing, but it is a fact.

I'm not selfish, and I sympathize with the Iraqis for the loss of a 1200 year old historical landmark. I understand the religious impact of losing a shrine that is believed to be future host to a prophet of the last millenium.

I also understand how GWB is using this as a diplomatic bridge to "win the hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people. I don't think it will work, but I understand the motive.

What I don't understand is why my tax money is is being sucked into the black hole of Iraq at a faster and faster rate.
This is a country awash in oil where two million barrels of crude a day seems to be evaporating into thin air.

Is oil money being used to "rebuild Iraq"?
Is it providing "security" for the Iraqi people?
Is it going into a fund for the Iraqi's "future"?

Apparently not.
(The Iraqi Minister Of Oil is......Ahmed Chalabi. Our old English speaking friend who lost in this year's election. He was appointed by us.)

It appears more and more that the oil is being recovered by US oil companies for the sole cost of removing it from Iraq.

It seems that none of this oil money is being used in country because everytime a bridge needs built, or an electric grid needs refurbished, or if the Iraqis just need some "walking around money", it comes right out of our red white and blue pockets.
Security for shipping the oil out surely isn't cheap, but judging record oil company profits, they're getting quite a deal here at our expense.

When is enough enough?


STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT

On behalf of the American people, I extend my deepest condolences to the people of Iraq for the brutal bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra, one of the holiest sites in Shi'a Islam. The terrorists in Iraq have again proven that they are enemies of all faiths and of all humanity. The world must stand united against them, and steadfast behind the people of Iraq. This senseless crime is an affront to people of faith throughout the world. The United States condemns this cowardly act in the strongest possible terms.

I ask all Iraqis to exercise restraint in the wake of this tragedy, and to pursue justice in accordance with the laws and constitution of Iraq. Violence will only contribute to what the terrorists sought to achieve by this act.

The United States stands ready to do all in its power to assist the Government of Iraq to identify and bring to justice those responsible for this terrible act. And the American people pledge to work with the people of Iraq to rebuild and restore the Golden Mosque of Samarra to its former glory.

http://usinfo.state.gov/mena/Archive/2006/Feb/22-921703.html?chanlid=iu

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I think it is a gesture of good will

made by a murderous sob, but good will nevertheless.

It's ok with me if my money goes there. Better than tanks and bombs.

[Disturbed]

3. Are the 13 American churches that were burned being...

rebuilt with US Taxpayer's money?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. They are being rebuilt with insurance money

I would guess.

But they weren't burned because of a conflagration we began. I think we should feel some level of responsibility. At least I do.

[FARAFIELD]

8. You are kidding right?

I wouldnt mind so much if i hadnt seen so many churches wiped out when i did hurricane relief after Katrina.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. No, I'm not kidding at all

That shrine had some of the finest mosaics in the world and it has incredible meaning to the people there, and not just spiritual. It is a pilgrimage site and many jobs are based on it.

I am assuming the churches in NO had insurance and will eventually be rebuilt..if not in that exact spot, then somewhere else. I hope so. We lost some churches at the coast this year in FL and our diocese sent work crews, but they were also all insured. The crews just helped clean up. But FL after Dennis was nothing like Katrina...there was still an infrastructure to use.

But I think the US, by toppling Saddam, pulled the plug on this country and helping rebuild the shrine is the least we can do.

[MADem]

2. Gee, so now we are in the restoration of houses of worship business?

I should think the Iranians would pony up the dough for it--that masjid is one of the holiest sites in Shi'a Islam. Why are my tax dollars going to that??? It's horseshit! If some sonofabitch blew up St. Patrick's or the SLC Mormon Temple, I would be ADAMANTLY opposed to a taxpayer restoration project. Why is is verboten here, but hunky-dory there???

[DanCa]

4. The new Pottery Barn Rule.

Dubya and the GOP broke it, we gotta buy it.

[Critters2]

7. So let * pay to rebuild it

It's time he took some responsibility.

[DanCa]

9. I agree and lets let the gop by body armor with all the cash

that there raking in from republican fund raisers.

[rzemanfl]

6. Yeah, and we were going to tear down Abu Ghriab and build a

new prison. * lies to everybody. He needs that gold for his crown.

[Vinca]

10. Can you imagine, if we hadn't invaded Iraq, the kind of security

we could have afforded on our borders? Instead, we'll be building and building and building and rebuilding.

[spooked]

11. WHAT A JOKE!!

This is what the World Trade Center looks like 4 and a half years after it was ruined:




And this is what Louisiana looked like after Hurricane Katrina hit with TENS OF THOUSANDS STILL HOMELESS:




It's not our PROMISE to fix the mosque that I question, it's our CAPABILITY.


"Hurricane Katrina created an estimated 60.3 million cubic yards of debris in Louisiana, 25 times as much as the ruins of the World Trade Center and enough to fill the Superdome more than 13 times. Of that, only 32 million cubic yards -- a bit more than half -- has been removed."

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060226/NEWS01/602260329/1002

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. Actually, the stats in your post surprised me

to read that they have moved a bit more than 32 million cubic yards is rather amazing for six months. When Hurricane Kate hit here it took down about 1/4 of our trees and it took two years to get that cleared up.

My son was just in N.O. helping with the clean up (actually he is providing paramedic services) and he says the place is extremely busy, completely overrun with trucks of every kind. And remember, they couldn't even begin to start the cleanup until the insurance companies inspected the properties, and they were strained to the breaking point, borrowing adjusters from all over the country.

In NYC, that mess was cleaned up in a year and the only thing keeping them from rebuilding that is the huge muddle and controversy over exactly what they are building. They worked night and day for less than a year with trucks moving in and out of there lined up for blocks.

It takes time. And it will take time to rebuild the shrine. If we had stayed home and minded our own business it wouldn't have happened.

[JohnnyRingo]

19. You make some good points Talgrannie

I think my original beef with the cash going to the mosque was due to the oil money that can be used to rebuild their country going into the pockets of Exxon stockholders.

I think if they owned their own oil they wouldn't need my money.
Instead we pay on both ends. $2.75/gal + $80b/year to occupy the country and liberate their oil.

I guess I got upset because now we're going to start paying for renovation too.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

21. I certainly hear you on that

and there is no fairness in the distribution of money, not with the greedy corporations all with their hands open.

And the hard part about that is I don't think there is anything we can do about it.

But this mosque..I think about how I would feel if it were, for example. St. Patrick's cathedral. I hope they can rebuild it. Maybe something positive can come out of the rubble. It will be jobs for skilled craftsman, something they can be proud of.

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. agree

I work with a number of Shiites. This destruction caused so much ill will -- some of it directed at America. We did indeed create the conditions that led to this mess.

[Posteritatis]

12. To be honest...

I'm getting a you-break-it,-you-buy-it vibe out of the whole thing. I'm not exactly convinced the US did directly wreck the mosque, but the US sure as hell created the conditions in which it should happen. I wouldn't pin sole responsibility on the US unless I was convinced that they directly attacked it, but I also wouldn't absolve Washington entirely either, since they did start the war.

On a more general level, it's not like this particular shrine was some run-of-the-mill mosque built in the fifties or something along those lines - not that I'm trivializing the destruction of new houses of worship, of course! It's an ancient work of art with enormous historical, social and cultural value. The historian and (very amateur) art/architecture conoisseur in me in me is almost as furious over this as the current-affairs/politics junkie in me.

If that mosque was destroyed or seriously damaged in some alternate history where the Iraq war never happened, where Bush may or may not have been president, and where foreign countries clearly had nothing to do with the blast, I'd still not mind seeing countries offer a hand - yes, even with taxpayers' money! - to repair or even rebuild it. Simply as a gesture of goodwill, or respect to the institution. I'd say the same of the Hagia Sophia, or Taj Mahal, or Notre Dame or any other tremendous cultural landmark received this kind of barbarous treatment. Lending a hand in the aftermath is a civilized thing to do.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. Thank you for saying it so well

[spooked]

18. Yes, the gesture is nice, but strange coming from a country

whose invasion provoked the looting of the Iraqi National Museum with artifacts dating back to the dawn of civilization.

And few remember that we DESTROYED the archealogical remains of one of the 7 Wonders of the World - The Hanging Gardens of Babylon - when we decided to set up camp there!

"In April 2003, the US chose Babylon for a military base and hired Kellogg, Brown and Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton, to develop and maintain the encampment—which expanded to fill 370 acres, housing 2,000 soldiers. In September 2003, the camp was passed to a Polish-led force. Babylon was finally handed back to Iraqi authorities this past January; what they received was a severely contaminated and irreparably damaged site... Constant traffic from heavy trucks and machinery has crushed the original brick surface of the great Processional Way leading into the city. Acres of the site were flattened, covered with imported gravel, and sprayed with petro-chemicals that are seeping into unexcavated deposits.

These areas were used as foundations for parking lots, housing, storage facilities, and a helicopter landing pad—the wind and dust created by the helicopter blades has weakened the ancient walls of adjacent monuments. Trenches were cut into previously undisturbed archaeological deposits... Thousands of tons of archaeological material were dug up and used to fill sandbags and mesh crates; when that was stopped, sand and earth was brought in from elsewhere and distributed over vast areas in more sandbags, which birds are pecking open, causing the intrusive earth to spill out—compromising the stratigraphy forever. Due to security concerns, the State Board of Antiquities and Heritage was shut out, and the Iraqi archaeologist in charge of Babylon could not stop the military construction."

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:OuNqPYCGaCAJ:www.savingantiquities.org/ESlecture.excerpts.doc+hanging+gardens+%22landing+pad%22++helicopter&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

Like * gives two hoots about a golden dome on a mosque!!

[Daphne08]

14. I have two things to say to this.

New Orleans & The Gulf Coast

[AndyA]

17. Putting the rest of the world before America

Let's build up India's economy by outsourcing jobs there.

Let's bomb the sh!t out of Iraq and spend billions and billions over there by granted no-bid contracts to Halliburton - and they don't even need to keep good records on how that money was spent!

Meanwhile, people in America have no health insurance, have a hard time heating their homes and putting gas in their cars, and can't rebuild their homes or their lives after devastating natural disasters.

And that natural disaster has a name: George W. Bush.

[neweurope]

20. The motive is not to finally "win the hearts and minds". Bullshit.

The motive is to show the whole world: WE are giving money to REBUILD it, how could we ever have DESTROYED it??!

And, forgive me: The loss of a 1200 year old holy site doesn't only affect Iraqis. It affects the whole world. It's really incredible what the whole world has lost in Iraq because you destroyed it.

If you have to pay for that mosque - even if for totally the wrong reasons - you get off easy. Very easy.

----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Hell, we probably paid for the explosives that blew it up.