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I Got Your Hypothetical Right Here. (anti-torture "signing statement")

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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 06:42 PM
Original message
I Got Your Hypothetical Right Here. (anti-torture "signing statement")
Edited on Wed Jan-04-06 06:55 PM by Plaid Adder
The Boston Globe reports that Bush has signed the bill that includes the McCain anti-torture amendment, but has issued a 'signing statement' in which he reserves the right to violate it at his pleasure:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/01/04/bush_could_bypass_new_torture_ban/

So.

We have a president who believes that he is not bound by the laws passed by Congress, or indeed by the Constitution, and who also seems to really, really, really want to be able to torture people.

Bush has spent the past couple of weeks articulating his 'theory' that the President can do whatever he wants to, regardless of what Congress, the judicial branch, or the Constitution tell him to do. That's the real reason that NSA spying scandal is important. Not because we're all apparently fair game for government surveillance, although if you were smart that would worry you. Because by authorizing this program, Bush was violating US law, evading the judiciary, and flouting the fourth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Yeah, there are other societies that have more intrusive government surviellance than what Bush was doing. Those other societies don't have a constitution that safeguards their citizens against unreasonable search and seizure. We do. Amendment #4, in the bill of rights. The bill of rights, incidentally, was initially added to the Constitution because there were some folks who felt that unless these rights were explicitly spelled out, the federal government might assume too much power and start to over-reach.

Imagine that.

So, Bush doesn't think the fourth amendment matters 'in time of war.' Also, he doesn't think that Congress's laws are anything more than gentle suggestions which he is free to disregard if they cramp his style. Also, if the judiciary rules against him on a few of his pet requests, he's got no problem just ignoring them.

And remember, he likes torture. At least he wants to make sure he can do it any time he feels it's necessary 'to assist the war on terror.'

All right, Republicans of America and other Bush supporters, let me explain what this means. You like hypotheticals, like that "ticking time bomb scenario," don't you. Well, I got one for you.

Suppose, through some vast mischance, you end up being incorrectly identified as a terror suspect--perhaps because you made a phone call to your uncle Mort overseas which was overheard and misconstrued by the NSA. Or because your name is the same as the name of some shmoe whose identity was stolen by a guy whose third cousin once attended an Islamic school in Pakistan whose alumni include one of the guys who blew up one of the tube trains in London last summer. Whatever. It doesn't apparently take much to become a terror suspect in this country, at least not under the terms of the USA Patriot Act.

What's going to stop Bush from torturing you?

Seriously. Let's say you get picked up and sent to some undisclosed location where you find yourself sitting in a room with a guy who's giggling and playing with a bunch of electrodes. What are you going to do about it?

Call your lawyer? Well, you may not have that option. A lot of our detainees don't. But let's say they're feeling generous and they let you call your lawyer. What's your lawyer going to do for you?

Well, I suppose your lawyer might try to make some kind of legal or constitutional argument that would convince the government to release you. Your lawyer might even convince a few levels' worth of judges that you should be released. After all, you are a U.S. citizen. Traditionally, under the Constitution and US law, you are normally presumed to have a number of basic rights, including the right to a speedy trial in front of a jury of your peers, as opposed to being held indefinitely without being charged.

But it won't matter how many judges order your release, because Bush doesn't think the judges have the authority to do that. If he wants to keep you locked up, he'll do it. It's a time of war. You might have vital information. You might not, but it's a dangerous world out there, and it's best not to take chances. Why not just torture you anyway, to be on the safe side, and if it turns out they were wrong, well, better to torture a thousand innocent victims than to take the chance of allowing another 9/11, right?

Well, so your lawyer is not going to be much help. Well, let's suppose you're either rich or lucky, and your case has been picked up by the media. Let's suppose, even, that Congress has had a belated attack of conscience, and they have all flown back from their vacations to pass a special law called the Release John Q. Hypothetical Bill, which explicitly states that you, John Q. Hypothetical, shall be released from prison forthwith.

It's nice of Congress to make the effort on your behalf. Unfortunately, it's not going to do you any good, because Bush reserves the right to violate any laws Congress might pass if he sees fit, including the Release John Q. Hypothetical Bill. So, too bad about your own special piece of legislation, but you're only going to see your family or fresh air again at the pleasure of George W. Bush or his lackeys.

So there you are. There's no way out. At this point, all you can hope for is that the guy with the electrodes will show a little self-restraint.

Restraint? What for? He knows that Bush considers torture a valuable tool in the war against terror. Your legal rights are null and void. Any information he gets out of you, whether it's credible or not, will be treated like pure gold by the gang above him, if the way they handled the 'intelligence' they got about Iraq through torture is any guide. Of course he's going for the electrodes. That's his job, isn't it? He's been doing this so long he's kind of got to like it now. It's true most of his subjects up to this point haven't been Americans, or English speakers, but that just means the novelty of torturing someone whose pleas for mercy he can actually understand adds a little spice to the afternoon's entertainment. And how happy he feels knowing he's doing it all to protect America, because when you finally tell him where the bomb is, he will be a national hero, just like Jack on 24.

Except you don't know where the bomb is. You figure there must be a bomb somewhere, because he keeps asking you about it between zaps, but you don't even know enough about whatever he thinks he's interrogating you over to make up something that would sound plausible and get him to leave you alone. Which is too bad, because those electrodes REALLY HURT.

Implausible? Maybe. I'll tell you what, though, it's 1000 times more plausible than the "ticking time bomb" hypothetical Bush and his mouthpieces are using to justify their assertion of supreme and unchallenged executive power. Look at the way these jerks run things. What are the chances of their ever having the right guy in custody at exactly the right time? What are the chances that even if that did happen, torturing him would actually produce the information that would allow them to neutralize his diabolical plan?

The point is: Bush is now asserting the power to suspend your legal and Constitutional rights at any moment that he deems it necessary. Just on a whim, or because God told him that it would help. That should scare you, whether or not you ever come face to face with a bundle of electrodes.

:scared:

No? Not doing anything for you? Bush would never do that to me, you say? Seeing as you are a good upstanding loyal red-blooded Republican-American?

OK, try this: re-run the hypo, but insert "Hillary Clinton" wherever you see "Bush."

NOW are you feeling it?

Bout damn time,

The Plaid Adder
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. We are in a bad situation.....
the baby and the bathwater..... right out the window. Great essay, PA!
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hey, McCain, how does it feel to get screwed
again??? Sycophant.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. In the meantime we are treated to the bizarre sight of
Newt hawking his anti-Culture of Corruption plan to fight the Culture of Corruption that he charted and built via the Contract on America, maybe even covertly running for President. Don't forget to think about Newt and the Patriot Plan and expanded Presidential powers at his fingertips.

In the meantime, 3 more sordid years of the George W. Bush saga... Its just depressing.
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why are the majority of americans afraid of being an american as defined
by the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is all terrifying...
:cry:

What happened to my country?

Peace.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. "But it won't happen..."
"...Because they only go after terrorists."

Sorry PA, but the people you are presenting this 'hypothetical' to do not have the imagination to understand that this could happen to them.

They have made up their minds that it will only affect brown people. If that brown person happens to be their neighbor or kid's kindergarten teacher, then they must have been a terrist all along... or at least a sympathizer.

If the 'brown skinned' person happens to be them... then maybe they should just turn themselves in already.
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeah, I know.
Scared the shit out of myself, though!

:scared:

The Plaid Adder
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Then we're on the same page....
I wasn't kidding when I posted this either;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=53765&mesg_id=53765

No... there really is reason to be scared.

Did you see the excerpt from the fellow whose neighbor is leaving the country because "he's seen this all before" as a boy in Nazi Germany?

It was posted here. On DU. And it seemd rather credible what that he gave his name and all.

We live in interesting times.

May you be blessed PA.
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sweetm2475 Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bush Get's His Torture, McCain Gets His PhotoOP
Everyone's happy in hypocritical lying sack of crap Freeperville. Did anyone really think it was gonna turn out any differently?:grr: :grr: :grr:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. Don't matter. He gets what he wants while we are "at war"
He has already signed on to five more years of "war on terror" in the Sahara. It's OFFICIAL. FIVE YEARS of war. Signed, sealed and delivered.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Here is the link.
Abidjan, Ivory Coast -- The U.S. government will spend $500 million over five years on an expanded program to secure a vast new front in its global war on terrorism -- the Sahara Desert.http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/27/MNGISGDLR91.DTL


There is much to read there, but the point is that he has already signed onto war for FIVE YEARS.

Kiss yer constitutional rights goodbye. Commadoincheif has placed himself in the beginninbg of perpetual war.
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