Gabriel W.: A 3rd Grader's view of Iraq

[BurtWorm]

Gabriel W is a 3rd-grader. He was born in New York City and watched the Twin Towers collapse. Since then he has internalized the truth that this event and the war in Iraq are only connected in the minds of politicians. He has recently started expressing his opinions on the subject by leaving notes on his parent's bedside table at night. He does not like fighting or war, but is an avid skier and soccer-player.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-w/a-childs-point-of-view_b_16398.html

[tgnyc]

1. No wonder Bush doesn't get it. He has the mind of a second-grader

[TahitiNut]

2. It's in almost new condition. Rarely used.

:evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. But you know MY Pet Goat is a 1st grade story

Just sayin that 2nd grade might be reaching just a bit.

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

4. hey my 2nd grader told me what he wanted for xmas next year

tonight he said he knew what he wanted. he wanted an end to the war. hadnt been talking about it. had put him into bed, walked past room and he calls out he knew what he wanted. i am thinking lordy, that is a ways away.....

an end to war

there isnt anything else he really wants, he is lucky and has so much he says. should have thought about it this christmas, sorry he didnt

shaking head here, he still has faith in santa and his ability to succeed

[debyoutaunt]

5. Sad

His parents need to help him put this in perspective. He is not yet into abstract thinking yet--that won't begin for approx. a couple more years yet--so he couldn't possibly be reaching those conclusions himself--he's working off an adult model and repeating what he hears, what he thinks will get him approval--that's all.

The responsible adults in his life need to help him through this and give him attention for more appropriate accomplishments. The kid needs to be a kid--and not some tool to help anti-Bush people feel more righteous about THEIR stance.

[hwmnbn]

6. Interesting long distance diagnosis .....

from the Frist school of psychoanalysis.

Enjoy your stay.

[debyoutaunt]

7. I am aware that...

...your little comment 'enjoy your stay' is shorthand for 'I've reported you and you'll get banned'. That, however, doesn't detract from the truth that I've told--and I've worked with disturbed kids for DECADES. You can tattle on me, ban me--run as much as you like--and what I've said is STILL the truth. Duers need to have the integrity and maturity not to hide from that.

I thought we Democrats were supposed to be SO tolerant of the ideas of others--and wanted DU to be a place of open debate.

We'll see.

Can you handle it?

[hwmnbn]

8. I never "report" so you're wrong on that too ......

next I'll only speak for myself. I regard long distance evaluations absent any other criteria other than a child's drawing to be bullshit.

I am extremely tolerant of other ideas. I do not accept your assertion that this child's parents consider themselves more "righteous" or are using their child as a "tool." You're making big assumptions about folks you don't even know.

That's downright insulting to those folks. But I think you know THAT.

In answer to your question, I can handle it.




BTW: I doubt you're a democrat. I think it's only a matter of time before you're exposed. Can YOU handle it?

[Tsiyu]

10. Are you a parent?

I am the mother of seven, here to attest to the abstract reasoning abilities of third graders.

Textbook regurgitations to the contrary, traumatized children often develop the ability to recognize cause and effect more quickly than non-traumatized children.

And I worked five years in pediatrics, so please try to argue with me about the subject ;)

[debyoutaunt]

11. Yes

I am a mother of twins--and I've also worked as a house mother of 8 teens at the same time.

Of course kids that age can do SOME abstract reasoning--I said that.

However, if a look is taken at all the information--poly sci, history, civics, government, military etc.--that would have to be known (and that's before we even get to the issue of brain maturation and his analyzing the info) this child cannot be making these conclusions on his own.

You have to look at who benefits from spotlighting this.

[seabeyond]

16. is the comment false. and what happens to our children that are aware

of what is going on in our world. unfortunately it is a kid that feels passionate enough to stop play and express what he feels. wouldnt it be more psychologically healthy to embrace what the kid creates, and pat on the back for the thinking, and then talk about how to heal the world, instead of pretend they really are not spinning out of control with all the mess us adults inflict on their lives cause of our own self absortion and agenda

[debyoutaunt]

22. Pat on the back?

Because the child is expressing feelings others wish him to? No child of 9 should be given the idea that 'things are spinning out of control'. The adults in his life should, instead, be letting him be a child, know that THEY will handle things, and that they will keep him safe. He surely should not be charged with 'healing the world', nor given the idea that adults have 'made a mess of things'. If a Democrat was president, I doubt entirely that this is the message he would be given by the adults in his world.

[seabeyond]

23. you under an illusion that children dont already know they are spinning

out of control and the world is really messed up. they arent dumb. they can see. lordy. so do you pretend it isnt, or do you teach the child to find peace so they can be a kid.

if a democrat was president. but the democrat isnt president. and this is what our kids are given, on a regular basis.

wouldnt it be nice for the kids not to have this crap in their world. i ask that our society not put adult sex in my kids world and they tell me i am a fundy, a prude and my children should get it because it will make them informed on sex and they are going to get it anyway. a couple things, i dont want kids to use the porn world as their letmus for their sexuality,..... and they dont want it. yet.... people insist

to not have "drug" fairs so kids can see pot, and needles and guns at 5 years old, but we give it to them cause we insist on giving to kids, we are so fearful a parent wont. them we thumb print and foot print them, take a picture and tell them never talk to a stranger. ya..... no fear there.


to actually be under the illusion we are in a world where we can shelter our kids from all this stuff is really being simplistic and not honest. my kid looks out his window and sees a confederate flag flyin, or hears the hate of gays by classmates, or bush put there by god

are you purposely being obtuse.

as a parent when a school gives my children that it is possible for earth to be 6009 yrs old am i to be quiet so they can live in a kid world and not have the weight of adult world on their shoulders? or why it is not so good to decide who the christians are and are not, who the patriots are and are not, who the true americans are and really what our nation is about and what we do today, in their name.

i am flabberghasted that you feel it is better to ignore all this and not bring the child to comfort with all they are experiencing. that you feel a child is so uncapable. that you dont even have a grasp of the insight of a child at this age. my 10 yr old was doing the judicial system during alito hearing. academically should a 10 year old be taught this or not, so we dont incumber them with knowledge.

now i absolutely let my kids know this isnt theirs to do, it is ours, the adult. their part/role is being accepting and loving and respectful to fellow man. pretty big role. it is adults to fix this mess. and maybe when they are raising their kids, they will be able to in a much better place. not so much anger, and hate and fear and sadness. that there are some pretty awesome and loving and smart adults, eventually we will figure it out. and in the meantime, they live in a secure, safe environment, and with parents that take care of them. we live the peace and lite, we hope on others.

[Tsiyu]

20. You don't need an advanced law degree to know that murder is wrong

You don't need a degree in physics to understand that a hot stove will burn your hand.

You don't need to have an advanced education in any field to understand that when your country kills innocent children in another country, you - as a child - are more at risk from people in that country and from other people who think your country is wrong.

I'm sure this child struggles for answers. I'm sure, having seen the towers collapse, he has done some heavy-duty thinking. Why does it shock you that he understands the truth? Why do you dismiss his reasoning because it isn't qualified with his placing it in "historical context."

Snuff-chewing, poor, old Appalachian women know the Iraq War is wrong. They do not have much socio-political historical training.

And I'm sure he wants to let the world know how he feels. Many children wish to be heard, but many adults will not listen.

[seabeyond]

24. Many children wish to be heard, but many adults will not listen.

that is the big point. my children need to talk. they go on and on and on about the injustices they see. it is how they work it and resolve it. the race issues they see in school. different perspective and treatment of girls vs. boy is big issues in their little 8 and 10 yr old lives.

yes, y kids have a need to talk, and few adults listen.

but.... i do

[BurtWorm]

13. If that's what he thinks he hears, then he's probably hearing the truth.

It's obvious that this truth is being filtered through his 8-year-old mind. He may not totally understand what "invade" means, for example, that it happens once and can't be increased or reduced. But he is expressing a fear based on reason, that is, based on the reasonable conclusion that the war in Iraq is not keeping Americans safe.

This work of art is sad, but not for the reason you suggest.

[seabeyond]

15. my 4 and 6 yr old were given 9/11 hoopla and fear

and much of it was from bush and repugs. then they were given war. they are pratically stripped searched going thru an airport, they are being told to be afraid at every turn, they watched the ugliest of our politics of lie and hate fellow man with repug campaign. no honor no integrity. and they were getting the crap from the pulpit.

the church brought them passion at 6 and 8..... abortion, thru stickers dont kill babies, and sinful guilty homosexuality that we must hate and fear, way to early

what is sad is the parent that isnt respectfull of all the f*in pressure we are putting on our children. you want to get into child psyschiatry and parental responsibility, bring it on. cause i am angry..... what what us adults create for our children to live today.... and what we build for their future. how arrogant to say, let kids be kids, as we have done everything possible as adults to bring them to our world and our fears

[Marie26]

30. It is

It's so sad that a child should even have to think or worry about these things; whether it's Bush's fault, the parents fault, or 9/11's fault. Children are now doodling about terrorism, fear & war. There's something so wrong about that.

[debyoutaunt]

9. For instance...

"Since then he has internalized the truth that this event and the war in Iraq are only connected in the minds of politicians."



Someone as young as nine years could not POSSIBLY have the information in his head to examine this issue fairly. I doubt he knows very much about our government at all. Brain-wise, a child that young is not able to analyze the info he does have and compare it. He can do SOME of that, but not the entire job of it.

Thus, his conclusions MUST be fed to him from elsewhere. People would not do this for no reason at all; his pictures and comments serve the anti-war sentiments of the people around him--and here--or it would not have been posted.

[hwmnbn]

12. I woke up this morning and you're still .....

talking out your ass.

Someone as young as nine years could not POSSIBLY have the information in his head to examine this issue fairly.

And you CAN NOT POSSIBLY have all the information about this child and family to examine this issue fairly, yet you are still diagnosing them from afar. Your ignorant assumptions betray you.

his pictures and comments serve the anti-war sentiments of the people around him--and here--

As opposed to serving the pro-war sentiments of the people around you--and freeperland.

to help anti-Bush people feel more righteous about THEIR stance.

As opposed to helping pro-chimp people and YOUR stance.

I am aware that... your little comment 'enjoy your stay' is shorthand for 'I've reported you and you'll get banned'.

So OBVIOUSLY, you've done this shit before and you DO KNOW how to get banned. It's very transparent.

[debyoutaunt]

14. Everyone...

...reading at DU for even the shortest amount of time knows that DU does not like differing opinions--and bans those that do not conform. And one doesn't have to be a rightwinger, a leftwinger--or Darkwing Duck--to understand that children do not have the abilities to make the sentiments expressed in the original post--and who WOULD be able to, and the uses to which it can be put.

[BurtWorm]

18. You seem to be overlooking the key piece of Gabriel W's biography.

He witnessed the collapse of the Twin Towers. I don't know how that 9/11 affected children where you're from. It traumatized children in NYC. It grew them up quickly to the fact that the world is a dangerous place because dangerous people live in it.

[seabeyond]

19. what if the majority simply think you are wrong

and i have had differeing views from day one. and i have never had a problem with administration. as i have a differing view with you. and i assure you i will not be banned.

[michael_1166]

21. As far as I remember

I was only 6 or 7 when I decided to never join an army because I regarded it (and still regard it) as a completely stupid thing to do. My parents were completely indifferent to that, so couldn't have influenced me. I don't regard myself as especially gifted or of an above average intelligence.

I don't care what the textbooks about children say, I just know I made that decision on my own. What I was able to do, other kids can do to, and probably can do it even better than me at that age.

[hwmnbn]

25. Conformity is not required here at DU ......

However intelligent thinking is. Coming into a forum and immediately denigrating a family for their anti-war stance is bad form. Doing so without proof or having established any prior credibility here is stupid. We all know stupidity is the freeper flagship quality.

I don't care if you are pro-chimp or not. If you can support his policies with rational arguments, please do so. I'd love to engage in meaningful and civil debate with you. If you are here just to sneakily insult or cause trouble, then fuck you. You should be ashamed AND banned. I trust these sentiments are stated simply enough for your understanding.

As for the child development issues, without your direct knowledge of these individuals, your comments about them are pure speculation with no basis in fact. If you are speaking in generalities, you know there will always be exceptions. Welcome to DU. :hi:

[seabeyond]

17. my 8 yr old asked about malcom. learned about mlk. decided he

was an mlk kinda dude. looking at his own bursts of anger, adn how he didnt like it, found it nonpoductive just sometimes sooooo hard

this kid had no trouble whatsoever grasping the productivity of hate, vs reason and love

arent you selling kids short

[Tsiyu]

26. Dupe

Dupe

[Tsiyu]

27. Using the "Sell kids short" logic

I'm sure Iraqi children should be taught that bombs aren't falling all around them and the electricity is really on all day and the grownups will take care of everything! Just be a kid, ignore the carnage all around you!

The bottom line fact is that every kid on the planet is in more danger because of **. And they make more sense when they recognize that fact than all of the "grownups" who worship the son-of-a-bitch like he is the second coming of Jeebus.

Bushlicking fuckers don't care that he's gutted their education funds, that he's gutted programs to feed poor kids, that art and music programs are unfunded bcause we need money to bomb Iraqi kids, that their country's air is filthier, the water is more toxic, national parklands are being given away to **'s buddies, parents can't make ends meet because the fucking greedy pigs need MORE crap to become even FATTER pigs, that kids in New Orleans died for FEMA's incompetence, that fathers and mothers and sisters and brothers are dying in a war so that those same greedy fucks can have a bit more.

No, they don't care. "Just shut up, kid. I don't want to hear what you have to say. Bush is Gawd! "

[seabeyond]

28. what a kick ass post. i just mean it.

for about a zillion reasons. just enough with this insistance we the people stay ignorant. my rw brother who wants everything the dems offer, go figure, purposely stays uninformed, told me my son reads too much, our house is too intellectual and i NEED to allow him to JUST BE A KID. i as a parent can MAKE him quit reading adult books. shaking head

so this hits me

[Tsiyu]

29. Don't worry about what other people say about your wonderful kids

I know you don't ;)

Kids make a lot more sense than adults do in a great many cases these days.

Your kids sound like wise, wonderful, intelligent, caring people. You were just unfortunate to land in a family with a few Neanderthals roaming in the gene pool.

There are books in every nook and cranny of my place and were in every place I've ever lived with kids. People who disdain books are also people who disdain peace and knowledge and truth and freedom.

You and your kids are what we need MORE of, seabeyond!