Has anybody read the ad to the left on this page (Hotel Workers Rising)?

[MercutioATC]

I'm 100% behind the right of workers to unionize.

I'm 100% behind hotel workers being paid a living wage.


Am I the only one who thinks that a job in housekeeping at the local Holiday Inn doesn't have to be a "middle-class job"? http://www.hotelworkersrising.org/edwards.asp

[MADem]

1. What's your definition of middle class?

The goal is for these people to be able to support their family. I think that's fair.

Cleaning rooms is hard work. Pay people a living wage, and they'll do a better job of it.

[MercutioATC]

6. Maybe it's a matter of scale.

Personally, I break it down into three basic "classes":

(and I know "lower class" has negative connotations, but I'm speaking strictly in economic terms when I mention "lower" in this thread)

1) Lower: $0 - $55k/year (zero to about a quarter of the U.S. median home price)

2) Middle: $55K - $250k/year (one quarter to a little more than 100% of the U.S. median home price)

3) Upper: $250K+/year


Obviously, these numbers are adjusted by location...


In the average market, I don't see the "need" for housekeeping at hotels to make $55k/year.

[lakeguy]

2. yup, pay people a living wage and they will spend more money,

which keeps the american economy rolling. the only ones who don't want this are mainly corps who can't see the forest through the trees. i do think it would hurt small business some but if you can't afford to pay someone a living wage then maybe you shouldn't be in business.

[MercutioATC]

7. Living wage? Absolutely.

"Middle class"?

I dunno...

[MADem]

8. You are inserting YOUR definition into the equation, though

We don't know if this advocacy group's definition is the same as yours. I suspect it isn't.

Personally, I know a shitload of people who make WAY less than 55K per annum who consider themselves "middle class."

[MercutioATC]

9. That's the problem. It's an ambiguous term.

Philosophically, I've always defined "middle class" as skilled workers who do better than just "providing for their families". I just don't consider housekeeping as a "skilled" profession.

A question, though. If we're going to advocate that housekeeping be a "middle class" job, where do we draw the line? By definition "middle class" means the "middle". Should EVERY job be "middle class"?

[MADem]

12. I think every job ought to pay enough so that people can live in dignity

You can make exceptions for kids working after school jobs of no more than 20 hours a week, but if you work full time, you ought to be able to get by on your salary, have access to health care, and live a reasonable distance from your job. If we need to adjust our priorities to make that happen, well hell, maybe that is what we should do.

Years ago, the bozo who went to work in a gray flannel suit was paid better than a plumber. The plumber worked with shitty toilets and bent wrenches, and was a "blue collar" guy who didn't do as well as the suit guy. Nowadays, a plumber is a helluva job to have, and most do better than cube rats, live in nicer homes, and have more cash in the bank than the suits.

Your value as a worker depends in large measure on what people think you are worth. I think a clean hotel room is an important item, especially given how much the bastards charge at some of those places.

[MercutioATC]

14. I agree with your premise.

"Living in dignity" is a relative term, but I'll go with it in principle.

The distinction I'm making is between skilled and unskilled labor. Housekeeping seems, to me, to qualify as unskilled labor...plumbing does not (it involves learning a trade).

[malaise]

3. They import many hotel workers

from the Caribbean so they can pay lower wages. Go Unions!!

[MercutioATC]

10. As I said, I support paying workers a living wage...but "middle class"?

I think that unskilled labor making "middle class" wages skews the equation. It's not a "middle class" wage if EVERYBODY gets it.

[malaise]

15. I'm often confused about the use of the term

'middle-class" in the US. A lot of these people are working class and barely making it.

[Maraya1969]

4. What is the difference between them and union protected grocery workers?

And the others are right, room cleaning must be a back breaking job.

[Mutley]

5. Not just backbreaking but disgusting, absolutely filthy.

You don't want to know about some of the stuff that goes on in hotel rooms. :puke:

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Here is the key question:

“Can we still really call America the land of opportunity when hotel workers who work full time for profitable hotel companies can not make ends meet?”
-Sen. John Edwards

[MercutioATC]

13. Which is it, "making ends meet" or "middle-class jobs"?

Edwards says both.

I think they're different things.


Again, I'm 100% in support of the right to unionize and a real Federal minimum living wage. I think that's a LOT different than advocating unskilled labor making "middle-class' wages.