Wasn't this a conspiracy theory a year ago here?

[jsamuel]

I have tried to stay out of the conspiracy wars taking place in GD today, but I think people are just concerned on both sides. One side is concerned that our credibility could be/is shot because of conspiracy theories explored here. The other side clames that they have credibility because the conspiracies are true.

Well, I just wanted to point out that this is one conspiracy DU pointed out over a year ago and here it is in the news today:

PLAME/AIPACGATE UPDATE: OSP tried to plant WMD in Iraq.

[in_cog_ni_to]

1. Indeed it was. Go figure! UP NEXT....

911 MIHOP. Mark my words. That's going to be exposed.

[thefool_wa]

4. Hate to sound new, but..

Could someone define MIHOP for me (there's antoher accronym used in re 911, LIHOP? maybe something else, define that one too)

Fairly certain it has nothing to do with pancakes and strawberry syrup :)

[annabanana]

5. here

LIHOP "Let It Happen On Purpose" re 9/11 (like ignore the PDB)
and
MIHOP "MAKE it happen on purpose" (like PNAC's fabled "new Pearl Harbor")

[Catherine Vincent]

6. Welcome to DU!

LIHOP = let it happen on purpose

[tkmorris]

7. MIHOP/LIHOP

Made It Happen On Purpose, or Let It Happen On Purpose, referring to the inner core of PNAC and the neocons, and their possible roles in the attacks of 9-11.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. PNAC=Project for the New American Century...neo-con's

group who wrote Bush's National Security Plan......YEARS ago. www.newamericancentury.org/

[OKNancy]

19. that is not really a conspiracy theory

it was and is totally out in the open for all to see

[radio4progressives]

22. If it isn't covered in the Corporate MSM - it doesn't exist or didn't

happen.

PNAC is out in the open only to those who were directed to it.

Ask a neighbor or a co-worker if they know what PNAC is.

But if isn't reported or referenced in the media, then there is a conspiracy to keep the public uninformed, hence the MEDIA are actors in the cover up.

to this day, I have never heard the term PNAC mentioned by any reporter or pundit in the MSM (apart from talk radio) or read any reference to it in any paper of record.

There may have been one reference made in a Frontline edition on the run up to the war broadcast a year or two ago, memory is foggy on that.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. : ) I know. I was explaining what PNAC meant just in case he/she

didn't know. I thought since he/she was new and didn't know what MIHOP meant, maybe he/she didn't know what PNAC meant. :hi:

[radio4progressives]

36. gotcha!

:hi: :toast:

[JohnyCanuck]

42. See PNAC 101 by LunaC

PNAC 101

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2137401

[jsamuel]

8. MIHOP = Made It Happen On Purpose, LIHOP = Let It Happen On Purpose

many here prescribe to one of those theories...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

9. Not a problem... we have our own language here

sometimes...

LIHOP -- let it happen on purpose

MIHOP -- made it happen on purpose

"it" being 9/11

[thefool_wa]

13. Thanks All

that clears it up. Me, I guess I am still somewhere in the middle, I know they LIHOP but am beginning to think they MIHOP.

again, thanks for the input.

[MadisonProgressive]

27. Get with the program!

Welcome to the nut house! :hi:

[IndyOp]

17. Nope. UP NEXT...

Revelation of who stole Election 2004 and how!

I'd be fine with a revelation about 911 -- but strategy-wise I think that revelation of who did 911 and how would be too big a jolt to the bushies -- they might fight back by imposing martial law.

And, we *must* have revelation of theft of Election 2004 within the next few months so we have half a chance of saving Election 2006...

Just MHO...

:kick:

[MadisonProgressive]

28. Yes, and the military just might refuse

[IndyOp]

40. From your lips to God's ears. (nt)

[QuettaKid]

45. I am solid with you on this one.

MIHOP all the way. How any sane person can look at the close up of the squibs, so clearly defined, exploding from the side of WTC 7 and NOT be MIHOP is beyond me. The truth will come out and when it does, you will see some very ugly scenes on your TV's. I predict riots in D.C.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/281104unmistakablecharges.htm

[applegrove]

2. I think if we can agree to call something a theory - and couch discussion

of something with no smoking gun as "a theory" or "speculation" then we are fine. Cause you don't know until you know.

But we should not be afraid of the discussion on conspiracy theory. At the least we will learn to be very exacting and discerning - the opposite of sheep.

[Kurovski]

21. That's just about the best formula for dealing with

conflicts regarding speculation as I've ever seen.

[applegrove]

34. Now we just have to agree on the smoking gun part. !!!

[Kurovski]

38. Yeah, the devil is in the details.

Well, it never helps when we call each other idiots for believing/not believing different things. it's hard not to get hopped up, but it's best to discuss such things carefully. And then there are the outright disruptors with an agenda. ( Not to say every challenge makes one a disruptor...or an Agent Mike.)

like you basically said, it's best to talk about EVERYTHING and take the "wait and see" approach when no direct evidence is forthcoming.

It seems clear that anything is possible with the criminals in Washington, so most discussion falls squarely within the realm of possibility.

[applegrove]

39. But we must admit it is a scenario until the evidence form a substantial

pattern.

[BattyDem]

3. Like the old saying goes ...

"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't to get me." :evilgrin:

Yes ... our "theories" on DU may sound a bit nuts sometimes, but that doesn't mean we're wrong!

[MadisonProgressive]

29. My signature says it all for me...

“Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko.”
-John Loeffler

[BattyDem]

31. I love it!

:toast:

[NuttyFluffers]

47. "..."conspiracy stuff" is now shorthand for unspeakable truth." -vidal

we live in interesting times. oh, and every day is opposite day from the mouths of this maladministration.

[thefool_wa]

10. There's another saying

You give a thousand monkeys a thousand typrewriters and a thousand years, eventually you will get the complete works of Shakespear.

Not saying we are a bunch of monkeys (please, I'm really not), what I'm saying is that with such a large meeting of the minds and enough basic information, evetually one of us is going to hit every nail on the head at least once. It won't be the same person every time, but someone is going to hit it each time.

It makes this type of thing fun. Like playing the paranoid lottery.

My theory: Someone out there somewhere is out to get somebody.

[w13rd0]

14. Thing is...

...there is no statistical proof that this is true (regarding a 1000 monkeys with typewriters for 1000 years). But yes, aggregating data is good, but there's also the problem of mis/dis-information which increases the volume of white noise/static along with the good bits. Heck, you almost need an NSA datamining/spying application to sift thru the noise and get to the meat.

[thefool_wa]

16. Of course its not true (monkeys)

but the idea is totally applicable. When you have over 80K people who sift through the information and share what they think/know on a regular basis, then apply the creative minds of those willing to go out on a limb and put the pieces together, and I think someone will get it right every time.

That, and this administration is so predictable that "theory" becomes relative. I mean, did anyone seriously doubt that this would be found to be true?

[MadisonProgressive]

30. I kind of discount the monkey theory

I know a guy at work that has 20 years experience, but he really only has 1 year of experience 20 times in a row.

[thefool_wa]

41. BWAAAAHAAAAHAAAA!

I've known guys like that myself.

[Kurovski]

24. Shakespeare, with an "e".

;-)

[info being]

43. And the more intelligent those monkeys, the more often they are right

How often to Republican monkeys get it right?

[thefool_wa]

44. I don't know

they seem to know a thing or two about fixing elections and selling influence.

[Eric J in MN]

11. An unnamed source saying unnamed Americans

asked unnamed Iraqis to plant WMD.

Anyone else bothered by the lack of names?

If "Raw Story" had at least one name for the people above, this could be the story of the decade.

But without even one name for those people, I wouldn't even link to the "Raw Story" article from a blog.

[serryjw]

12. Remember this article?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0413-02.htm

[fooj]

18. IMHO, the problem is "conspiracy" has been given a rap...

Please tell me from this definition where "conspiracy" equals "crazy"...


con·spir·a·cy (kn-spîr-s) KEY

NOUN:
pl. con·spir·a·cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.


Just another "Let the RW define us" moment!

I am sick to death of liberal, conspiracy and a plethora of other "words" being re-defined...it's maddening.

:smoke:

[Oversea Visitor]

20. Haha

The Taliban try to warn the US about OBL planned attack weeks before 911 and BOOM they got destroy instead.

They end up getting painted at the bad guys.

Poor Americans you guys just not getting the real truth.

[MadisonProgressive]

32. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder...

:spank:

[Oversea Visitor]

37. Nah

Me just say whats out there beyond the media curtain.
Chip or no chip
Truth cant be buried
The British knows about that and do the UN people

Afganistan get liettle talk about
Why Nato has to step in
Where the UN force?

[texpatriot2004]

23. Well, it's reality now baby nm

[Jara sang]

25. The Holocaust was a conspiracy theory until 1945

And the concentration camps were found. If Hitler had won in Europe it probably would have remained a conspiracy theory to this day.

[il_lilac]

26. Yep, just mentioned this one

Hubby and I were discussing thread on theories proven true and remembered how many here believed the administration outed Plame. We were told to get a life then...:eyes:

[autorank]

35. Some conspiracies...

1) LBJ and others work together, CONSPIRE, to make people believe that North Vietnam attacked American ships in the Gulf of Tonkin.
2) Prior to that many at the state department, the White House, and in the press and academia work together, CONSPIRE, to get the public to believe that there really is such a thing as South Viet Nam. This is not true. South Viet Nam is a geographical contrivance by the west to create the illusion of a "free" country being attacked by a "communist country" when, in fact, the peninsula was always one cultural and political unit.
3) Ronald Reagan, David Stockman and others work together, CONSPIRE, to convince us that the purpose of tax cuts, massive, is to encourage growth in revenues beyond what would ocur under the tax system at the time. The real purpose, admitted freely now by ultra rightists, is to starve the Federal budget thus making the Great Society and New Deal programs unavailable through lack of funds PLUS give big business, not the common taxpayer, major breaks from taxation.
4) Many in the State and Defense work together, CONSPIRE, to convince people that the US is not engaged in weapons sales to Iran and that the money gained is not being used to fund the "Contras" in Central America.
5) Many in the government work together, CONSPIRE, to convince us that the plain truth is not plain; namely that the use of Central American drug lords in our war against "communism" there in no way contributed to the introduction of crack cocaine by those same drug lords in American cities.
6) Many in government work together, CONSPIRE, to convince us that there are WMD in Iraq and that Iraq is a danger to our country.
7) Many in government and industry work together, CONSPIRE, to convince us that there is no such thing as global warming.
8) Many in government work together, CONSPIRE, to say events in Iraq are going well and that we're accomplishing our mission.
9) Many in the press, main stream, work together, CONSPIRE, to keep in depth stories on the * administration from emerging, particularly the obvious problems with the last two elections.

These conspiracies were groups of people working together for what they feel is a noble but what turns out to be a nefarious end. Get used to it. The only single person crimes are robbing 7/11's, murder, breaking and entering, and solo embezzlement. With government, it's always a conspiracy if there's a crime afoot.

[SoCalDem]

46. When two people talk , it can be a conspiracy...by definition

The rub is that it's USUALLY a conversation of a "negative" kind...leaning toward criminal.. But is it necessarily a conspiracy when OTHERS band together to unravel the possible contents of a "prior meeting of two or more"?..How is THAT the conspiracy?

If you find out that several shifty types have gotten together to "possibly" plan something illegal, and YOU convene a group to investigate or discuss it, just HOW does that make YOUR group a conspiracy as well?..It DOESN'T..







An action by two or more persons to secretly plot to commit an unlawful act.
www.remember.org/eichmann/study5.htm

The activity of a group, such as a Secret Society, acting together against the interests of the community. Often 'conspiracy theories' are pooh-poohed by Authority. The 'Cock-up or Conspiracy Theory' states that either authority doesn't know what it is doing (and that is frightening), or it does know what it is doing (and that is frightening too).
www.embassy.org.nz/encycl/c7encyc.htm

The act of two or more people planning a crime together. The crime need not necessarily be committed in order for there to have been a conspiracy. Literally means breathing together.
karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Definitions.html

[Stevepol]

48. As it's used nowadays, "conspiracy theory" is meaningless. Better:

Any crime involving more than one person is a "conspiracy."

The election theft was a crime and more than one person was involved, hence, it's a conspiracy. But how many people were involved, the nature of the involvement, and a hundred other factors are unclear. What's clear is that a crime was committed.

It's confusing to use conspiracy theory as if this is something contrary to the reported evidence. Blaming the CIA or Cuba for Kennedy's assassination is rightly called a conspiracy theory because most of the evidence doesn't support those conjectures or at best only weakly supports it.

When the evidence is overwhelming, IT'S NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY. It's merely reporting a crime. Accusing people of believing conspiracy theories only serves to keep people from investigating how an obvious and easily proven crime actually took place.