Why did we appropriate the term "American?"

[question everything]

The American people, the American flag, the American President, the American culture..

What about Canada? And El Salvador? And Costa Rica? And Argentina?

What am I missing?

[shraby]

1. I think it has something to do with

Amerigo Vespuci (sp?) is why this is America.

[applegrove]

3. Some Americans think all Canadians or Mexicans should be called

Americans too. We don't call ourselves that.

The adjective is for you guys only. America is in the title of your country is it not "the United States of America"?

So you are americans. Nobody else is. North Americans? Well that would be Mexicans, Canadians too.

[question everything]

4. Yes, but the United States is not the only country

in America. So are Canada and Costa Rica and Argentina. Yet, when we are talking about "Americans" we mean the people of the United States.

[MadisonProgressive]

15. Not true

The people of Canada are Canadians and the people of Costa Rica are Costa Ricans. We are the only country called America. The rest of the countries you're referring to are located on the continent of North or South America. Big difference.

[applegrove]

22. You guys took over the name. Europeans are Europeans from where-ever

in Europe they come. But likely their first identity is national instead of regional.

The same way - for all of us outside the USA our identity is national "canadians" and not continental (especially since North & South America are different continents).

So there is no identity with Americans. You are americans. We are not.

If someone says: you American I say NO!

You can call me North American. I wonder what the Mexican take is on being called North American? Don't know.

[MadisonProgressive]

24. Are you agreeing with me or arguing with me?

I'm sorry ,but I didn't quite understand. I think you are agreeing, but I'm only 62% sure.

[applegrove]

25. I'm agreeing! Sorry. I was just backing up your explanation. Obviously not

well.

[MadisonProgressive]

26. No problem! I appreciate it! Where are you from?

One edit: I just reread your post in a new light, and I understand it completely. I guess I'm so used to people arguing with me around here I was reading it wrong. Peace, brother!

[applegrove]

27. That happens on the boards all the time. Go in in a mood and read the

post off - because you cannot gage the mood of the posters. Happens every day here.

No problem.

Peace!

[MadisonProgressive]

28. Are you from Canada?

[applegrove]

41. Yup. Nowhere specific. Everywhere really.

[Kahuna]

42. Heh? We're located on the continent of North America too..

Soooo?

[MadisonProgressive]

46. Then we are Americans AND North Americans

[noahmijo]

8. It is from Amerigo Vespucci

In The Daily Show's book "America-The Book" I bet it was Stewart who wrote the bit about this where it said "Just think...we could've been called 'The United States of Vespucci'

:rofl:

[RoyGBiv]

13. On a serious note ...

South America was actually the only continent directly named after Amerigo Vespucci, on the first published map with the name, the Carta Mariana. This became popular in Europe among navigators, and when Mercator's groundbreaking map in the early 16th century was published, he adopted the name for both North and South.

How those living in what became the United States of America began thinking of themselves as "Americans" is actually a somewhat different subject. The name itself, of course, traces a lineage back to Vespucci, but the reasons for its use have little to do with him personally.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. Hang on - it may come from Richard Amerike, Welsh financer of John Cabot

In the book, the author acknowledges that while Vespucci played an integral role in the naming of America, he never actually took credit for the name for himself.

However, in 1507 map-maker Martin Waldseemuller prepared a world map almost entirely from Vespucci’s maps.

In this map, the word ‘America’ is written across South America. In later editions of the map, Waldseemuller tried to change the name to ‘Terra Incognita’, or ‘Unknown Land.’
...
This was purely speculative, he says, until 1955 when a misplaced letter was found in the Spanish National Archives. The letter confirms that Bristol merchants had reached Newfoundland earlier, and also notes that John Cabot’s map was sent to Columbus.

http://www.uhmc.sunysb.edu/surgery/broome.html

Also, as part of this theory, I've heard it pointed out that only royalty gets their first name used when places are named after them - us commoners get our surnames used (Prince Edward Island, Georgia v. Colombia, Tasmania). So why should Vespucci be an exception?

[KansDem]

50. Then why aren't we called "Vespuccians?"

Just think of the possibilities:

"I'm proud to be a Vespuccian!"

"Vespuccia, for spacious skies..."

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of Vespuccia"

"Vespuccia, Vespuccia, God shed his grace on thee."

"God bless Vespuccia"

and so on...

on edit: I see from other posts that this is an old joke, but I still think it humerous...

[MrMonk]

2. Do they use "America" as part of their country's name?

That's the only non-controversial reason that I could think of.

[question everything]

6. OK. I will accept this. Thanks (nt)

[RoyGBiv]

14. Well, okay, but ...

That begs the question of how and why the country was named as such.

[onenote]

48. because it was descriptive and accurate

There were a bunch of states. They were located on the American continent. They united. Thus: The United States of America.

onenote

[RoyGBiv]

62. It's more than that actually.

[JohnyCanuck]

37. I agree.

With the country officially named the United States of America, it's only natural that America/American would be adopted as the easiest way to identify yourself. I am a Canadian and I have never had a problem with this. When people complain about inhabitants of the US appropriating the term America to refer to their portion of the continent only, I say big deal. There are way more important things to worry about.

[seabeyond]

5. my then 9 year old asked the same question of a bunch of adults

and they really didnt have an answer. he thought it a bit arrogant too.

[RoyGBiv]

20. Think of this, though ...

The name "America" was applied to the continents by Europeans. Why would the natives of these lands, and their descendants, want to adopt a title they didn't create?

[prole_for_peace]

7. why do you hate america(n)?

[question everything]

33. Hate? Where did you get this?

Can't one ask a question without being labeled - and with no answer, of course?

[CJCRANE]

43. Don't worry, it's a DU in-joke...

a sort of mock-freeper reference, like using spelling mistakes such as "hugh" or "moran".

[question everything]

77. Sorry. Should have caught this the first time.

Makes perfect sense..

[prole_for_peace]

60. sorry that was a joke.

that is a response that i use a lot and i see on du a lot too.

anytime some questions anything about great 'murica you answer with "why do you hate america?"

i should have put a sarcasm or eye rolly smilie.

[question everything]

78. Thanks. Should have caught it.. (nt)

[Catherine Vincent]

9. What's with all the questions?

:P

[Orangepeel]

10. It's short for "United States of American"

I guess we could have called ourselves "Statesians" or "USAites" but "American" makes as much sense.

[Osito]

11. Are you looking for a serious answer?

1) Our country was created from an affiliation of colonies and territories with different identities. What other generalized moniker would you propose? USAns?

2) Before we became a country, we were considered by the "First World" nations to be "The Colonies". And when needed to distinguish between the Western Hemisphere and, say, Africa or India, we were called "The Americas". When we achieved independence under the name United States of America, many in the old world continued to refer to as "Americans" simply because they were used to it and "colonies" didn't work anymore. As other colonies became other countries, it was easier to distinguish them by their names, rather than trying to work "American" in there.

[question everything]

35. Yes, thank you. Appreciate the history lesson (not my area) (nt)

[RoyGBiv]

12. What about them?

An all too common misconception is that Colombians, Argentinians, Mexicans, et al at any point in history thought of themselves as "American" in any sense prior to, maybe, the 19th century. That name was applied to the continents, and the vast majority of people living in them had no clue of the title they'd been given for literally centuries.

English colonialists began adopting the title in the 17th century. Read The Name of War : King Philip's War and the Origins of American Identity for a full, sometimes boring discussion of the fuller story. In summary, colonialists began to see themselves as a separate people and adopted the convenient title that had only recently become popular. No one else wanted it.

Only our modernism even considers that others might "deserve" the the title of "American." Not too long ago, at least as recently as the early 19th century, Canadians, for example, actively repudiated it.

[question everything]

34. Thank you for the history lesson

Always knew that I can rely on DU for adequate information - when not challenged or called name for the sake of challenge :evilfrown:

[ugarte]

16. Spanish speakers don't call US citizens "Americans"

They are called "estadounidenses" because everyone from Canada to Argentina are "americanos".

[MadisonProgressive]

18. That's strange

I lived in Santiago, Chile for 2 years and they always called me either Americano, or gringo.

We are the United States OF AMERICA. In other words the name of our country is America and it is made up of states that united together to form the country of the UNITED STATES of America.

[ugarte]

30. In colloquial speech many terms are used

"Gringo" is the most common term, but since some "Americans" find that offensive, many people will call you an "americano" to be polite. No official representative of any Spanish-speaking country will ever refer to people of the United States, however, as "americanos" because, I repeat, everyone from Canada to Tierra del Fuego are Americans.

You can't just derrogate a word to apply to yourself when it is much broader than that.

[question everything]

36. What is the source of "Gringo?"

as long as we are talking about labels.

And, yes, I was thinking that if one listens to speeches at the U.N. for example, the Spanish and the French version would not include the world America but only the United States part. Or am I wrong?

[ugarte]

38. There are several legends about the word

The most common story is that during the U.S.-Mexican War, the U.S. troops were fond of singing the song "Green Grow the Lilacs," and Mexicans misheard "green grow" and began referring to the invaders as gringos. Some in South America, particularly in Argentina, debunk this and point to the word as an Argentinian invention (this speaks mainly to the rivalry between Mexico and Argentina).

This is just what I have always heard. An internet search could probably turn up more.

[Bridget Burke]

47. I've heard that "Gringo" comes from "Griego"....

And old-fashioned Spanish word for "Greek." (As in "It's all Greek to me.")

Mexicans apply the word to us residents of Gringolandia. Argentinians apply it to Italian immigrants. I knew a blue-eyed Cuban artist who did a piece involving some (Black) market sellers in Venezuela; they called him "Gringo." (That is, people of African descent working in the mercado--not Black Market!)

I don't find "Gringo" especially offensive. If someone calls you "Pinche Gabacho"--then you can be offended!

[ugarte]

67. As I said, there are different theories about the word

As for "pinche gabacho", that is strictly a Mexicanism, although much of the "pachuco" lingo has spread to Central America through exposure to gangs in California. Understandably, Mexicans and Chicanos/pochos have more colorful words for gringos than anyone else, having been on the reciving end of a fair amount of abuse.

As for being offended if someone called me that, you're damn right, since I'm Hispanic.

[Marie26]

54. "Green go!"

The American soldiers wore green uniforms during the Mexican-American War, so Mexicans would shout "Green go!" in English when soldiers passed. The name stuck as a slang term for Americans. (This might just be an urban legend, though.)

[BrotherBuzz]

17. Hell, half of 'those' Americans think Central America

encompasses all those damn states that starts with a vowel. :shrug:

[philarq]

19. Why do you hate America

you another one of them pinko commies?

:sarcasm:

[Boojatta]

21. "United" & "States" are both in the conventional long form name of Mexico

So you could say that "the United States" might refer to Mexico and that one needs to say "the United States of America" to make it clear that one is talking about the USA. However, "the United States of America" is long-winded and it would be awkward to try to get an adjective from "USA".

[donheld]

23. God bless America -- All of it.

[ugarte]

31. You are correct....nt

[Clara T]

29. America

the name is a contrivance and also through it's use an act of appropriation.

rec'd

[ugarte]

32. Why some "Americans" don't want to be lumped with Americans

from South and Central America strikes me as a little elitist.

[onenote]

49. the name is descriptive

When thirteen disparate colonies joined together to form a nation-state, do you really think the founding fathers had some "agenda" that they were trying to pursue with the name?

onenote

[Clara T]

66. I'm not a worshipper of

the founding FATHERS mythology nor of the patriarchical foundation of the nation.

As to who named the land that was taken that story is up for grabs.
An agenda? Of course. Mercantilists always have an agenda.

DID THE VIKINGS NAME AMERICA?
By
Dick Wicken

A NUMBER of theories regarding the origin of the name 'America' have been advanced, but none have been proved true.

First, and most generally accepted, is that the name 'America' is derived from the first name of Amerigo Vespucci, an Italian map maker and self-promoter who explored the seacoasts of North America in the decade following Christopher Columbus' 'discovery' of the New World for her most Catholic Majesty, Isabella of Spain.
However, there has been no substantiation that this derivation of the name 'America' is correct: and there is other evidence indicating that Amerigo Vespucci was not above turning to personal advantage an odd coincidence of phonetics in the sound of his first name and a composite word of ancient Norse invention, evidently in very current use by the North Atlantic sailing fraternity from about the year 1000 until well past the times of Columbus, Cabot and Vespucci.

Secondly, and less generally accepted, is a theory emanating from Bristol, England, submitting that the name 'America' was derived from name of one Richard Ameryke, a tax collector for King Henry VII as well as the city's leading lumber merchant. Ameryke was an enthusiastic supporter and financial backer of the Italian navigator, John Cabot. Under letters-patent from Henry VII, dated 5 March 1496, Cabot set sail from Bristol in 1497, accompanied by his three sons.

On 24 June 1497 he sighted Cape Breton Island and Nova Scotia, thus 'discovering' the mainland of North America - about 600 years after the Vikings had done so.
There is no more factual substantiation of the Bristol theory of the origin of the name 'America' than the highly questionable claims of Amerigo Vespucci.

Thirdly, the theory has been advanced that America was named for a Spanish sailor bearing the ancient Visigothic name of 'Amairick'.
Since these unproved - and quite possibly, unprovable - claims and theories are being advanced and accepted, it seems only right to submit a fourth unproven, equally logical and far more possible theory of the origin of the name 'America'.

Therefore, it is herewith submitted that the word 'America' is simply a phonetic derivation of an ancient Norse compound word 'omme-rike'. In its simplest translation from the largely four-letter language of the Viking discoverers of the New World, it means 'the remotest land'. The various parts of the New World were referred to in the Icelandic Sagas as Helluland (Stoneland), Markland (Woodland) and Vineland (Wineland).'Omrne-rike'would have been the logical name to apply to the great land mass as a whole.

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/viking.html

[gorrister]

39. reminds me of song

by the Canadian band, the Arrogant Worms

I am not American

I am not American,
Though I live in North America
Which is part of the Americas
Which should make me an American

Geographically Canadians,
Are certainly Americans
As are Venezuelans
But not Hawaiians

They're out in the middle of the Ocean
Just like the U.S. Virgin Islands,
Who shoudn't say they are Americans,
Or even virgins

How could two whole continents,
Lose their name to one constituent
Where were we when the U.S. went
And took the word American away?

But to be fair to them,
Their other name options,
Like U.S.A.ers or United Statesians,
Were pretty bad

Still I want to be as American,
As the French are European,
Or those in Antarctica are Antarctican
Even if they're just penguins

That leaves us Canadians as Northern North American,
But Alaska’s norther, curse them
We're surrounded by Americans
Americans, Americans!

I just called those U.S.A.ers Americans
A name meant for two continents not just them
For if I said I was American,
People would probably think I came from Maine

Still I think I have a plan,
Let's become Antarctican,
And join up with the penguins
For just like them, we're not American!

[question everything]

40. LOL. And having the Penguins as fellow citizens

is not a bad proposition, either.

[blindpig]

44. To make the real Americans, Native Americans, disappear down

the memory hole along with their claim to the land. Not a conscious, conspiracy sort of thing I don't think but can a society have a subconscious?

[sweetheart]

51. any alternative is cumbersome

"united states citizen" is a mouthful

"yank" is no replacement, though it is in britain.

Americans is what people outside the US call US citizens,
because it is easy to say, and everyone knows what it means.

It also recognizes the people as not being creatures of
a nation state or a constitution, but rather by their
land mass... something i agree with myself.

[Boojatta]

64. "not being creatures of a nation state or a constitution"

"It also recognizes the people as not being creatures of
a nation state or a constitution, but rather by their
land mass... something i agree with myself"

First, do you really think that use of the word "Americans" constitutes recognition of people as not being creatures of a nation state or a constitution, but rather by their land mass?

Second, what restrictions on freedom of movement do you favor? If you don't favor restrictions on freedom of movement, then in what sense are people creatures of their land mass?

Third, what do you mean by the words "recognizes the people as not being creatures of a nation state or a constitution"?

Example: After people found out that Maher Arar had been arrested, taken to Syria, and tortured, do you think it would have been acceptable for the Canadian government to say the following?

We believe that Maher Arar is not a creature of a nation state or a constitution. So his Canadian citizenship is irrelevant. Let the Mexicans help him. They're part of the North American land mass just as much as we are. Also, Maher Arar was born in Syria and we believe that people are creatures of their land mass. So he had no business being in the Kennedy airport in New York.

[sweetheart]

65. jurisdictions and grazing fences

I'm a product of my age and education, believing that modern human progress has outdated
some of the traditional concepts of nationality. One of these be the absolute right of a
nation to claim sovereignty over what is a nomadic animal. This is why i believe the
US should ratify the universal declaration of human rights that it helped draft in 1948
and bring through the UN general assembly. That document encapsulates the wisdom of so
many civilizations, putting in place safeguards that a WW2 never happen again.

A naturalized citizen has to say that they agree with the constitution, whereas, i, born
a yank, never was conferred with whether i agree... and i don't at all. Does that make
me a citizen of the US? Or does it make me a human being who happened to be born inside
the US grazing fence? Is there a difference?

If i introduce you, here in scotland, as "bojatta", a citizen of the united states of america,
people would find my introduction a bit long, and a bit pretentioous, as if you'd then be
expected to sing the resounding praises of george bush, as that is what people do in britain
who announce themselves as "citizens of the united states of america.."... its not-so-subtle
american flag waving.

If I intorduce you, as "bojatta" an american. Then people will thank me for brevity, and
not necessarily equate you with political america. I accept your point, that it DOES mean
a US citizen as well. I don't agree with any restrictions on human movement. It is a matter
of freedom and individual choice and damn the grazing fences, for one is living subjectivity,
and the other, inanimate illusion.

The Universal Declaration of human rights does not endorse any torture or kidnapping; it also
grants an inaleinable right to nationality, and treatment of the rule of law.

[Boojatta]

68. "to claim sovereignty"

I'm a product of my age and education, believing that modern human progress has outdated some of the traditional concepts of nationality. One of these be the absolute right of a nation to claim sovereignty over what is a nomadic animal.

Yes, the individual is sovereign and a government is not sovereign but instead derives its powers from the consent of sovereign individuals.

Here is that idea expressed in traditional language:

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...

[sweetheart]

70. so there we are faced with it

i'm sitting in the UK repeating modern variations of clauses from the revolutionary declaration
that founded a new society by breaking with past nationalism.... talk about layered irony.

So what is an american that agrees with the declaration, but not the constitution? Is that one
that only has blue blood, and no red? Oh, a lifetime search for blue.... no wonder i like diving. ;-)

So where is left to paint a revolution in blue paint online, one that has a theme, a cast
and a passionate heart greater than any neocon. As evil as they are, the spirit of life is
10,000 times brighter, burning in every heart...

[onenote]

52. first person to use "United States of America" in writing

Was Thomas Paine. Founding Father. For those of you who think naming the country United States of America was some sort of reactionary plot, I suggest you read up about Tom Paine and then think some more.

onenote

[Marie26]

53. We're arrogant

The name "America" originally referred to the entire continents of North & South America. Within those continents are individual countries w/different names - Canada, Mexico, etc. Our country is called "the United States" on the continent of America. America just described where it was located. Like, the "United Autoworkers of Michigan." Could the United Autoworkers start calling themselves Michigan? No. But we started calling ourselves America. I think it shows a certain arrogance, like we are the only country that matters in the Americas. But also it's probably because the name of our country is so boring. The "United States" is more of a description than an actual name for a country. There's not much to rally around there. People from Mexico can call themselves Mexicans, Canada can call themselves Canadians. What are we going to call ourselves - "United States-ians"? I think people grabbed onto "American" because it was a simpler word to define ourselves; and because it offers a sense of patriotism & place that the bland "United States" doesn't.

[question everything]

80. Similarly, we have the "World Series"

with only two countries playing..

Should have been called the North America Series..

[Marie26]

81. And don't even get me started on Miss Universe! nt

[Bushy Being Born]

55. Because we are the United States of America

If you find another country on the continent that incorporates 'America' in their name, let me know.

Really, this was one thing you didn't need to question, question everything. ;-)

[Bassic]

56. I don't know about English canada, but there are a lot of people in Québec

Who refer to Americans as "états-uniens" (at leas in writing). I do so myself actually.

It pretty much translates as United-Statian or something.

[oneoftheboys]

57. Hold on, I'll be right back...

with my hair splitting hatchet.

[newyawker99]

63. Hi oneoftheboys!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[McCamy Taylor]

58. When we decided to be named for an Italian map maker.

[kcwayne]

59. Because it sounded better than White Conquerors or Religious Bigots

[uppityperson]

61. USAnian (use-A-nian pronounciation)

I refer to myself as a USAnian, pronounces use-A-nian (A is hard A with emphasis on A sound), since it combines the USA (united states of america) and the using quality of our country. For a longer wod, United Statesian works.

[question everything]

79. I like this. Will have to train my mouth to say it ;-) (nt)

[tenshi816]

69. Years ago in the UK,

whenever I was asked if I was American, I began replying that I was a North American from the United States and that's what I still say. I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking, but once I moved out of the States I began to realize how arrogant it is for "us" to act as if we're the only Americans on the continent of North America.

[onenote]

73. so how many Canadians

when asked "Are you American" would answer the question "I am an North American from Canada" as opposed to simply saying "I'm Canadian"?

When someone asks me if I'm an American, I understand what they are asking and answer yes. I suspect most folks in other countries who ask "are you American" are just going to roll their eyes to an answer that suggests that they are stupid for framing the question that way.

onenote

[tenshi816]

82. You'd be surprised.

If you lived outside the United States for very long, you'd find that many people find it refreshing for an American to acknowledge that the USA isn't the only country on the North American continent. I know Canadians in the UK who are fed up with being mistaken for Americans and hate that they're automatically assumed to be American as soon as they open their mouths. That's one of the reasons I started answering the question the way I do. It makes people think.

[NuttyFluffers]

71. because we forgot to get a real name! :P

:evilgrin:

remember, USA isn't the only country that operates on a governmental organization of states (versus provinces, cantons, etc). that's why in spanish USA is abbreviated to EE.UU. (arbitrarily doubled in letters) to differenciate from other nations that are also 'estados unidos' (united states). essentially, since there are other united states on the american continents, calling ourselves the 'united states of america' is almost comical. it's like we forgot to get a real national name or something. :+ it'd be as ridiculous as the united provinces of europe, or the united prefects of asia; in the end it really doesn't mean anything, unless we all agree it means 1, and only 1, thing.

so think of it as the rest of the world being *really* polite to us. apparently we're *special*, safety helmet special. :7

[onenote]

74. is it more silly than calling Canada , Canada or Mexico, Mexico

Canada was the name of a portion of what is now the entire country. Does calling the entire country slight those from outside the provinces that were Upper and Lower Canada? And Mexico is named for Mexica, a group that originated in a portion of what is now Mexico and that established its dominance over a population descended from other tribes/civilizations that outnumbered them. Is there arrogance involved in the country being called Mexica?

Aren't there more important things to worry about?

onenote

[philarq]

76. come on---everyone knows

that Canadians live in Canadia

[liberalpragmatist]

72. Because there was no collective name for the British colonies

They were "The Colonies" or "British America".

Only the 13 colonies themselves had proper names. What was the country going to be called? I suppose someone could have come up with a name, but at the time, the 13 colonies considered themselves independent states joined in a league of association. That's why we're called the United "States" instead of the "United Provinces." Only after the US did the term "state" take on a double meaning such that it could denote both an independent country and an internal division within a country. At the time "state" meant independent or self-governing country with a clearly-organized government and institutions. Had the individual states been considered simply internal divisions of a larger country at the time, we would have been the United Provinces.

That arrangement made it unnecessary for there to be a national name. I could be pulling this totally out of my ass, but I do seem to recall reading somewhere that some proposed calling the United States "Columbia". I suppose if the states wanted their confederation to be totally geographically precise, they could have said "The United States of East-Central North America" - fat chance of that. Besides, by that point, the colonies were referring to themselves collectively as "Americans" and many at the time had expansionist ideas of eventually taking all of Canada and most of Spanish North America or at least the Caribbean.

[ieoeja]

75. Everyone was called Americans.

Well before the Declaration of Independance colonists born in the western hemisphere were called "Americans". The United States of America became an independant country well before anywhere else in the Americas.

The people of the USA did not coopt "American" for themselves. Everyone throughout the Americas was using it at first. But as time went by the others took on new names to differentiate themselves. So it was just the opposite of Americans being arrogant.