Should Hospital employees (Nurses, Dr's, etc) wear/express political views

[Heddi]

Okay I'll preface--I'm "just" a student nurse that's going to be an RN in less than 4 months.

I've done many hours doing clincial rotations in the past year, as well as experience working in a hospital previously as a research assistant/phlebotomist.

I'm not necessarily talking about a Dr/Nurse speaking with a patient about politics WHEN THAT PATIENT EXPRESSES A SIMILAR OPINION--I think it's highly unprofessional to get into political discussions with patients who are ill, in the hospital, and are at the whim of those who work for the hospital. But that's not the issue I'm concerned with.

I live in WA, and recently there was an initiave on the ballot to cap damages in medical malpractice suits. It was a VERY contested battle and millions of dollars in advertising were spent by the pro-cap and anti-cap groups.

And while I live in WA, I don't live in Seattle. I'm in Eastern Washington, very red part of the state. Even the "liberals" here are quite conservative compared with Seattle liberals and moderates, even. And the town I live in has 2 hospitals. Just 2. THe only 2 for...oh, an hour and a half in either direction.

Before the election when the initiave was voted on, many of the MD's and Nurses at the hospitals (I did rotations in both) wore lapel pins in favour of the damage cap. Some nurses had pro-damage-cap bumper-stikers on the folders they carried around.

I don't know---I was highly uncomfortable with this. I witnessed on more than one occasion a Dr or RN making comments in favour of economic damages when they were in the room with a patient who was watching TV when the commercial came on.

It seemed highly unprofessional to me. And NOT because I was against the initiative. I'd have honestly felt the same way if they were arguing against the cap, and wearing pins that expressed such opinion.

I also worked around nurses who wore Bush/Cheney pins before the 2004 election, and had various Bush/Cheney regalia on them or the equipment (personal equip, like pen lights, stethoscopes, notebooks, etc) they used on patients.

I felt, and still feel that this is highly unprofessional. People in the hospital are ill. It's sad that they are so trusting of the medical profession--we don't know it all, and one should be very afraid of someone who claims that they do. Dr's and nurses are not God, and they are not perfect, and they're not always good people who got into medicine/nursing for the "right" reasons, or the altruistic reasons, or the "good" reasons. There are bad people in every profession, and I feel that someone in this position wearing political slogangs, or pins that promote or denegrate one candidate or idea or another is akin to coersion, in a way.

Not to say that the Dr's are forcing patients to vote their way, or agree with their views, but I've seen alot of patients in the hospital--elderly, young, rich, poor, who feel that if their Dr says the sky is green, THEY (the patient) must have been wrong all these years thinking it was blue. I'm afraid that people in the hospital are in such a position as to see their MD wearing a button or a sticker like that and thinking "Well, if Dr Jones is in favour of it, it must be good" and base their vote SOLELY on their Dr's slient approval.

--
There have been a few--and a very few--situations where I've been caring for a patient who makes very real and very negative comments either about the war, the president, the government, etc. While I watch what I say to the patient, I feel that when they express an opinion that I share (universal health care, etc), I can have a professional conversation with them about it. However, if a patient expressed an opinion that I was VEHEMENTLY opposed to (anti-abortion, racial, etc), I do NOT engage them in conversation. I go about my tasks and leave it at that. I'm not going to get into a debate with them, and under NO cirumstances would I ever INITIATE political/ideological conversation with a patient.

---

Do *YOU* think it's unprofessional for people in positions of relative authority, like hospital Dr's, RN's, and other staff, to wear or express political or ideological opinions or beliefs?

Do you find it more offensive if they wear a button that is in opposition to your opinion, like a Bush/Cheney pin but less offensive if you saw them wearing, say, a "Kerry/Edwards" pin?

Do you think that hospitals should make a regulation (in instances where there is none, like the 2 hospitals here) that employees cannot wear political or ideological pins or clothing, etc (barring religious symbols)?

[Lars39]

1. Sex, religion and politics used to be taboo topics *with* patients

in front of patients, or within earshot of patients. And still ought to be,imo.

[MADem]

2. Yes, I do, and that is REGARDLESS OF PARTY

Sick people do not need the agita.

I think it ought to be in the hospital standards of conduct that political or even religious speech is to be avoided with patients. Amongst coworkers, fine, but no prosletyzing of ANY sort with the patients...religion, politics, or Amway, for that matter....

[dryan]

5. Is not appropriate.

[Name removed]

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[MrMonk]

10. Doctors, nurses et al. also hold power over the patient

and every patient is very much aware of that. The professionals and the staff should keep their opinions to themselves while working around patients.

[LincolnMcGrath]

3. I highly doubt Hosp. Admins would alow Pro-Union stickers!

[Mend]

4. back last September 2004, when my husband had to have a

triple by-pass, his cardiologist wore a Kerry pin on his white coat. It sure made us feel a whole lot better. We live in Red-ville by the way. I would have hated to see chimp's button on any of his doctors but fortunately there were none. I guess I can dish it out but not take it.

[Pirate Smile]

9. Right. It will either make you feel more comfortable with them or

feel somewhat alienated from them.

My kid's Pediatrician had a "Doctors for Bush" sign in his office (not the room he sees the patient in, I just noticed it because the door was open when we walked by to leave).

It was very disappointing.

Since he was my Pediatrician as a kid and I know what a great Dr he is, I could blow it off more then I would have with any other Dr (he discovered my heart murmur when I was sick (12 yrs old) when no one else heard it).

He was also my (wealthy) in-laws neighbor so I wasn't completely surprised although I kind of thought he should know better.

I would have felt better not knowing.

[Mend]

15. I have had a gorgeous drawing of John F. Kennedy on my office

wall since I started my medical practice 25 years ago. I think it is a subtle message of where I stand and I love looking at it. I keep modern election stuff out except for the bumper sticker on the car during campaigns.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. I personally would prefer to not know if

my doctor was a Bush supporter. It might get things on the wrong side of the track with me and my doctor and he does a great job so I'd rather not know. If he had a pin or sign or whatever at his desk or his office I could care less personally with that and same for bumper stickers and the like.

[xray s]

6. Keep politics out of the hospital room

Also I am curious about the attitudes that medical workers have about their patients. I know some people (nurses, doctors and pharmacists) who work in the field that I see on a social basis, and sometimes I am shocked at the callous attitude they portray toward some of their patients. One nurse made fun of the way people on morphine talk with dry mouth, and others ridicule overweight people.

This may only represent a small minority of people in the field. I don't know. But it makes me wonder what others say behind their patents back.

[SushiFan]

11. But that's not politics, that's just poor regard for pt dignity nt

[Heddi]

17. I've seen what you're talking about

and, for good or bad, have participated in some form of it myself.

However, with regards to me, I'm new. I've never seen someone with X condition, or someone with Y disorder. And I'm not making fun of them, either, but I have seen nurses who have, and I find it distasteful.

I think there's a fine line between a nurse having dark humour about certain aspects of patient care---remember, many of these folks are working 12 hours, mandatory overtime, no lunch, one, maybe 2 breaks a shift. They're terrbily overworked and understaffed, and sometimes we say things that would have made my ears fall off if I heard it never being in a medical setting, but having been there, halfway knowing the absolute stress of doing total care for 8 patients BY YOURSELF, I understand it's a coping mechanism. I mean, one poor nurse I worked with one day had every incontinent patient in the state of Washington under her care. There were no nurse's aides for the floor that day, and she couldn't even pass medications because she was cleaning up shit every 2 minutes. It was very frustrating for her and at one point she said "Hey, everyone, give me all the quarters you have--I'm going to the Tampax Machine to plug their butts so I can get some meds passed"---that, to me, was humour and it was said out of the hearing range of patients and family and only in the presence of other nurses/students. Would I have thought that was harsh had I not partially been in her shoes? Probably. But knowing how things have a habit of going from really bad to unbelievably bad AND busy in a short period of time, I understood she was joking and frustrated at having no help in her "doody duties"

However, there's a flip-side to that, and I've heard/seen nurses and other staff make absoultey hateful and bigoted comments about people because of their weight, their mental status, their addictions, their homelessness, their occupation as a prostitute, etc. These are not comments made in jest. They're not coping mechanisms. They're cruel and bigoted and mean-spirited. THey conveyed an attitude of superiority over the "lesser" people of society--the fat, the poor, the homeless, the prostitutes, the addicts.

I assure you, though, that in 99% of the conversations nurses and other staff have about patients is 100% professional and related directly to their care. The hospitals here have very strict standards of professionalism (which is troubling regarding the nasty comments I relayed above) and we're not even allowed to use the word "complained" when writing up reports. Like, you can't say that the "Patient complained he had pain that rated 9 on a scale of 10". That's subjective. What's "complain"? Rather, you write "the patient STATED he had pain that was 9/10". Same with "complied" or "did well" or "acts better" or stuff like that. How can you quatify "compliance"? how can you quantify "did well"?

[xray s]

29. thanks for your post

I can understand the need for some dark humor to try to get through hard situations.

People who work in the medical field are human. I am sure they have their share of bigots and jerks as well as angels, just like any other field. Actually, I think the medical field probably is top heavy with angels :)

[politicat]

7. I think sex, religion and politics do not belong in the workplace. Ever.

In your case, sex is only acceptable as it pertains to someone's health; religion only if it restricts treatments a person can take, and politics never.

If a doc or a nurse taking care of me expressed sentiments I disagreed with, I'd be mistrustful of their ability to treat me effectively and appropriately. Maybe they wouldn't respond as fast to a Dem or an atheist as to a fundy Rethug. It would undermine my faith in their abilities to treat me.

Pray and politic on your own time....

[Name removed]

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[Osito]

12. The profession has standards on this subject.

My wife and daughter are nurses. It is considered unprofessional to express such views in the hospital, especially where any patient may see or hear. Nurses may refuse to participate in something that is repugnant to them, as long as the patient is not jeopardized. Like abortion, judgments on this issue may vary considerably. It would be wise to get in writing the policy of the hospital on such issues.

[Canuckistanian]

13. No. Absolutely not.

ANY workplace (unless it's specifically a political or issue-driven business or organization) should NOT be displaying issue advocacy or political (or religious) messages in ANY workplace or public area while on duty.

There are a whole lot of reasons for this rule.

It just shouldn't be done.

That's the way it is here in Canada and it avoids MANY problems.

[SushiFan]

16. This could be just your opinion, not nec. true for all nt

[Canuckistanian]

20. Sorry, not where I live.

This is proabably a much different society than yours.

Let me explain something. We Canadians hate public fights, whether in out personal lives or from public officials.

And, the one sure way to get in a fight with somebody is to challenge their beliefs. Not that we don't ever fight, but we pick our fights very carefully and react very emotionally at times.

But this case is even worse. The patients might not like the "NO CAPS" sign flashed in front of their eyes, especially when the patients are "PRO CAP" kinda people.

Much discomfort ensues.

Whoever likes this kind of system must be a masochist.

Sorry, we may have different opinions about what is acceptable behaviour.

[Ilsa]

18. I can see why they might express a view on an issue, but I think it is

inappropriate to do so.

My father in a small town was given the impression that docs would go out of business and there wouldn't be any docs in his small town unless they got pain and suffering liability caps, so he voted for it. I haven't heard of docs' premiums dropping yet.

[Heddi]

19. That's the bullshit line that Dr's and the Repubs here were pushing

"Imagine...you're in a town with only two hospitals within a 200 mile distance. Now imagine both of those hospitals had to close because the Dr's could not afford medical liability insurance due to jackpot verdicts in the case of medical malpractice. Now imagine your husband is having a stroke, and the nearest hospital is 2 hours away...Vote Yes for Medical Liability Reform. YOUR family could be affected" :cue doomsday music:

Of course that's not going to happen, it hasn't happen, and all the figures show that there hasn't been this mass fucking exodus of Dr's from Washington to states where there are caps on Econ. Damages.

Bullshit. And patients were fucking FALLING FOR IT>

[kath]

40. Agree. So, so many LIES are put forth by the pro-"tort reform" people.

I am totally against "tort reform" "liability caps", etc.

And I'm a doc. (currently not in practice, though.)

[robbedvoter]

21. No. After 3 days of labor, I was being interrogated what my religion is

by someone dressed in white. I had been quite restrained in the delivery room, but now I yelled: get the hell out of here!
It was some stupid form/survey of the hospital - I was tired and found it totally inappropriate.
There's a reason for the uniforms.

[KoKo]

22. I switched Dentists after the one I was going to kept trying to engage me

in political discussions by making snide comments about Kerry. I was reading a magazine waiting for the anesthesia to take hold and he walked by and looked at the magazine "Southern Living" FGS! and spotted an ad for Jane Fonda's new book int the upper right hand corner and made a comment about her and Viet Nam to me. He wasn't even old enough to have served in Viet Nam! Southern Living is a hugely mainstream Southern Magazine...and I was reading an article about Home Decorating...but he snoops to some ad and attacks about it.

My hubby also used him and he kept trying to engage my hubby with political Bush stuff. We changed dentists. The guy was a jerk anyway, and I don't think his dental work was up to what it should have been.

So...NO ...it's a terrible turnoff to be subjected to health care professionals politics when one just needs their services. But, given my experience in my RED STATE...it seems to be "the thing" these days. :shrug: Not much you can do if you are in a hospital and sick and have no alternative...but at least I could change my dentist.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

23. If it has nothing to do with fixing the broken body in front of them

they need to put down their personal opinions and get on with the healing. Who and what you may be has nothing to do with any of that, and it's not their business. EVER. And a sick person could not possibly care less what your views are- they just need to know a competent healer is standing over them. Everything else is outside their purview.

[Name removed]

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[Prisoner_Number_Six]

28. Ever had major surgery?

The last thing you want to see before the joy juice takes hold is a politician. I'd MUCH rather see a surgeon with the repair of my body on his mind standing there.

Not harsh. REAL. I've been there on that table more than once.

[Name removed]

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[AlienGirl]

47. I want to know my doctors' political views ahead of time

Yes, maybe I'm just weird this way. But even in shopping for an oncologist, I felt a deep need to make sure my physicians didn't hold certain political/social views (like social darwinism). I can cope with a moderate Repub, or an Independent, but I would rather die than trust my care to a right-wing whack-job.

Tucker

[Cleita]

24. In my experience, when I was going with my husband

to the dialysis clinic, it seemed among the staff that the RWingers were in charge and able to express their opinions openly and we liberals had to whisper to each other.

I guess if it's the other side that prevails, it could be equally obnoxious to you if your political beliefs aren't the same. This is really that proverbial place between a rock and a wall.

I don't think it shouldn't be discussed at all, but just when and how much?

[gardenista]

25. Just what I want when I'm in the hospital- to see a "malpractice cap"

pin as they lean over me in my bed.

This, like any political pin, sends the wrong message.

[rucky]

26. That's just creepy.

Imagine being a patient, and your doctor is basically wearing a button that says "we don't want to be held responsible if we screw up."

There's a real confidence-builder.

[AlienGirl]

46. It's a warning label

Just like the Promiser Keepers calendar one of my former OB's prominently displayed was an effective warning label...I quickly found another OB.

Tucker

[crispini]

31. You know, you're right.

I hadn't really given this much thought, but doesn't the Hippocratic Oath in fact say, "First, do no harm." ? I think that a healer should in fact concentrate on providing a positive environment for their patients.

But, I do think it's OK to wear a little pin or badge to some workplaces, if the environment is such. :shrug:

[AlienGirl]

48. I don't trust a hard-line RWer to do no harm. nt

[earth mom]

34. I was shocked to find out a nurse I know does not believe in Universal

Health Care! :wtf:

I would think that with all the suffering the medical community sees that every last person who works with the sick and suffering would feel compassion for those who don't have or can't afford health care and would want to see health care for all! :freak:

Boy did I want to tell her off...but it wasn't the right time or place...maybe one of these days! :evilgrin:

[Cleita]

35. A lot of medical professionals don't..

Some even think that health care costs should operate like the free market, with no insurance or govt. medical plans. Doctors should be free to work out treatment and fees with the patient.

I can't believe it myself, but it's true. It's like they go through their day in denial of what is going on around them.

[earth mom]

50. Whoa...what happened to compassion in the medical field?

When did it become "just business"? I guess I never noticed before because I grew up thinking that doctors and nurses were by nature altruistic and compassionate. Naive of me, I see now. How sad. :(

[FreedomAngel82]

36. My position is

if it doesn't have anything to do with your job talk about it OUTSIDE of work.

[newspeak]

38. I have a very good friend who is a RN

she's lived in India and Afghanstan and she has worked with critical care patients. When it comes to critical care, she has certain beliefs, she is a native American traditionalist, she's seen some pretty strange things working---I think you have to go with the flow. You don't want to discomfort the patient, but on the other hand you don't have to compromise your values. I know situations will flow that you will know what to do. She faces it everyday and has no problem.

[laststeamtrain]

39. Yes. But patients should not.

[newspeak]

41. yeah, she told me a story

that she came in on duty and they had a patient with infectious hepatitis sharing and bathroom with another patient. She immediately rectified the situation. There has been times where she has had to ask the doctor are you sure you want to give this patient a certain combination of drugs because they would have been lethal together---you don't tell the doctor, you have to ask----workers rights, however, she's in the forefront, and I think there's nothing wrong with that---of course, she's in California. If you know a doctor is giving a combination of drugs that is lethal or that there's something wrong with the care of the patient--it is UNCONSCIONABLE not to speak up. It is for the safety of the patient---of course, politics should not be a part of care!!!!

[Heddi]

42. not only that---

you say:
. If you know a doctor is giving a combination of drugs that is lethal or that there's something wrong with the care of the patient--it is UNCONSCIONABLE not to speak up

---

Legally, she HAS to speak up or risk losing her license for not doing so. Nurses have to take so much pharmacology so that we can look at med orders and know if they're right or not. If we don't "catch" it, and the patient becomes ill or dies from it, not only is the Dr who ordered the medication held liable, but the nurse who took the order (and didn't catch the error) held liable, and the nurse who gave the med and didn't "catch" it held liable as well. That goes not only for medication, but for all aspects of patient care. If a Dr is adamant that a certain med or procedure be given/done, and the nurse feels uncomofortable with it, the first recourse is to speak with the DR. If the Dr still won't change the orders, the nurse brings the issue to the nurse manager, and details EVERYTHING in the chart that they felt the order was incorrect, the doctor insisted, etc. Also, the nurse can refuse to give a medication or perform a procedure if he/she feels it is unsafe or whatever. Again, liability wise that nurse is just as responsible if he/she carries out a bad order as the Dr is who wrote the order to begin with!

[newspeak]

43. yeah, what bothers me

is that the nurse has to approach it as a question "doctor are you sure that you want to give this combination of drugs?" Instead, of saying, hey doc if you give these drugs your going to kill the patient. I mean wonder if the doctor says, yes give this patient these drugs. I guess, I don't like the approach. Like the menial nurse must question the god-almighty doctor. I guess it's good I'm not a nurse, because I'd be in their face saying "your going to kill the patient if you do this."

[AtomicKitten]

44. My doctor discusses politics with me ...

but people in service industries won't; fear they will be recorded I guess.

I am also in the medical field and most institutions forbid any paraphernalia. However, people wear crosses to designate their christian faith, and quite frankly I don't think there's anything wrong with wearing a political button. In the work environment, rules are rules, and the tone is set by management.

That's one of the many reasons I'm self-employed.

[AlienGirl]

45. I used to ask anyone taking blood from me who they voted for

It was a way of dealing with panic attacks. Besides, if a health-care professional has some view that I just can't stand, I'd rather know ahead of time--so I can avoid them!

Tucker

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

49. It is inappropriate, especially for doctors/nurses to express their

political views to their PATIENTS. It is unprofessional.

Imagine if you are the patient, and the doctor is a Repub. It might be an emergency where you don't have an option to walk out or choose another doctor.

It has no place in medical care.

[Loonman]

51. No...it just causes problems

Think about it.

[pitohui]

52. it's unprofessional

since we no longer get to choose our doctors and hospitals, our insurance plan does that, they should not be allowed to advertise religious or political views in the workplace period