My retired parents' property tax just went up 62%

[auburngrad82]

I told them it was because the Republicans have squandered our surplus on pork and giving tax cuts to their rich buddies and have cut funding to the states so drastically that the states have to find alternate ways of funding their governments. That's why North Carolina just raised the gas tax by 3 cents. We are in effect paying a hell of a lot more in taxes under the Republican led federal government than before they took control.

Why can't people understand that when a Republican says "no more taxes" he means "no more taxes for the rich and fuck everyone else"?

[mrcheerful]

1. You'll never convince the true freepers of facts

they live in a fantasy world until its them paying out the nose, but instead of blaming it on tax cuts for the rich its those damn welfare queens at fault. I hear that daily btw.

[wryter2000]

2. Are they in NC?

I'm in CA, and we'd better not have that kind of increase, or I'll be forced out of my house.

[auburngrad82]

4. They're in Virginia

I'm in North Carolina. In one way it pisses me off but in another way I'm kind of glad that the GOP's policies are finally beginning to hit home in the red states. Maybe it will add to all of the other problems the GOP is having (and right before the elections! Abramoff, DeLay, the Iraq war, the domestic spying issues, Iran, and on and on.) We should be able to capitalize on their bad government decisions of the last decade.

[soothsayer]

20. Where in VA? My mom's getting clobbered in Arlington

[auburngrad82]

21. In the boonies east of Charlottesville

I think some of it may be payback by the County Board. My father raised hell with them last year about rezoning the property next to them under the table.

I figured they would do something like this.

[MountainLaurel]

24. I would bet.

Housing prices have doubled over two years' time (and then some, depending on where you are) in Northern Virginia; I would expect that assessments would rise as well. Too many people are going to be forced out of homes they bought in the 1950s because they can't afford the taxes.

[Gormy Cuss]

6. Unless Prop. 13 is repealed, no worry on real estate tax.

Of course, the income, gas and sales taxes could go up and make it just as bad as if the property tax increased.

[progressivebydesign]

32. Prop 13 destroyed California, and continues to do so.

That was the worst piece of shit initiative. It killed the parks, the schools, the emergency service, everything. While I think it's great for people to not get clobbered on prop tax, that one was the beginning of the end for livability in California...

[sweetheart]

33. The drugs war,

poor water management and urban sprawl are destroying california.
Prop. 13 is taxpayers saying enough is enough, and that would not
have needed to be said, were reagan not governor doing his first
rendition of "deficits are good for uz" in his massive freeway
expansion programmes.

Stupid government is destroying california, and i wholly understand
not wanting to pay for it.

[rinsd]

40. Agreed though I wouldn't mind amending Prop 13 for commercial prop (nt)

[Gormy Cuss]

42. Prop. 13 can no longer be blamed for everything

Other taxes have been raised to compensate. The percent of residential owners paying taxes built from the pre-1979 rates is shrinking rapidly because of turnover and newer construction. Local parcel taxes and bonds are common to pay for school programs and selected services. Local sales tax add-ons help pay to maintain parks and support services. The state collects a handsome amount of the income tax revenue too.

I'm no fan of Prop. 13 but the only way I would support a repeal would as part of a comprehensive overhaul of the state tax code.

As for livability, zoning restrictions, car-centric community planning and a failure to recognize how urbanized many former small communities have become affects livability more than Prop. 13 IMO.

[wryter2000]

59. You're so right

If they'd passed a prop that limited taxes on houses people live in, it might have worked. There was such a prop on the same ballot. They both couldn't win.

I swear, my taxes have gone up. Maybe they tacked on some fees or something.

[sweetheart]

18. doesn't howard jarvis's prop 13 "protect" you?

Arn't property taxes state level anyways, not really related to the
federal grand larceny?

[converted_democrat]

34. It's completely related.....

State and local governments are getting less from the federal government, and they have to make up for the shortages some how.. So, they raise taxes on the local and state levels.

[sweetheart]

38. thanks

So they're making it up with property tax increases... is there any link
for this ? I'm curious whether this is documented and systemic or just
anecdotal.

[converted_democrat]

48. It's not just property taxes.. One of the other biggies is gas tax...

The state of NC just raised theirs, and my county just raised ours here in FL.. So on that one you can get the double whammy on that one.. Depending if they are raising at the county level, state level, or the state and county level.. I don't have any links, because it isn't something I study in great detail.. But think about it.. They are cutting the federal taxes of the wealthiest, so the money has to be made up somewhere. I'd google for "local & state tax increases" if I were you.

[sweetheart]

50. Here's a link confirming what you said

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=34039

If i were a democratic candidate, i would get deep deep in to discovering
exactly how much taxes have been raised where, as when republicans argue,
the best way to gut-punch them is to hit them with their own tax increases
and big government spending.

So, net-net, all the bush tax cuts have achieved is to simply shift
the burden down the curve.

[converted_democrat]

51. You got it!!!

"So, net-net, all the bush tax cuts have achieved is to simply shift
the burden down the curve."

Exactly-
And take it a step farther than that..Think about how much EVERYTHING has increased.. Health care, Housing, Food, Energy.. Everything has increased dramatically in cost.. The "lower taxes" many thought they were getting, are actually shifting more burden to them, just through another fashion, and the cost of everything is going up.. The middle class gets screwed at every angle.

[auburngrad82]

52. Some places have increased sales tax as well nt

[ThomWV]

3. Mine Went From $89 to $297

North Carolina

[Tsiyu]

5. Some counties will let you appeal

Perhaps they can get a reduction if there is a procedure in place for this.

Sorry to hear: a sign of the times for sure.

[acmejack]

7. We paid $11,000 last year

Which is why people are mad here!

[ramapodem]

11. I assume

your from New Jersey also. I just moved to South Jersey from the Princeton area and the taxes dropped to a measly 5 grand.

[LiberalEsto]

17. Move to Maryland, and they'll drop even lower.

My property taxes in Montgomery County, MD are about $2500. In New Jersey, taxes on a similar house in a comparable (excellent) school district would be $7,500 or higher. I lived in NJ until 1990.

Part of the reason is that Maryland's school systems are run by counties rather than individual towns the way NJ does things. In Maryland, each county has one bus system, one purchasing system, one personnel system, one library system, one cafeteria system, etc. Maryland has 21 county school districts plus Baltimore City, which is a mess partly because it's not part of the Baltimore County system.

New Jersey had 561 school districts last I heard, each with its own bus, cafeteria, personnel, administrative, library and purchasing system, etc. All this costly duplication of effort helps create NJ's sky-high property taxes. NJ wants "home rule," meaning decentralized schools and local government, but they pay an enormous price for it.

[mod mom]

28. We pay more in Ohio, but my kids are in a great school with 16 kids

in their classes. Since we can write it off, we see it as cheaper than private school. We paid $5,500 each for montessori preschool so it wasn't such a shock when we moved.

[adigal]

8. I wrote a LTE about this

and some guy wrote back and said I hated Bush, etc., etc. I replied, and the printed it, that when you take money out of the federal govt by giving tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, the federal govt has less money to "trickle down" to support the states and local govts with programs. So the burden falls on the local govts to pay for everything, thus, your real estate taxes go up.

I don't understand why this is so hard for freepers to understand.

[auburngrad82]

10. If someone told me I hated Bush I'd say "So what's your point!"

But I don't stop there. I hate the whole GOP. I think their policies are wrong and that they are corrupt. I just wish people would wake up. My parents are finally waking up to the fact that the GOP isn't so good for people.

[dchill]

15. I would answer,

"Yes, I do, but the real problem is that YOU don't." I've actually done this, and it seems to work well for me - I'm not really interested in freepersation.

(freepersation = attempted conversation with a freeper.)

[CornField]

13. Also, property taxes can usually be increased by a simple majority

Whereas other types of taxes sometimes require a super-majority in order to pass.

[SharonAnn]

19. I know. People here want more $ for schools, more $ for TennCare

AND want their taxes cut.

Some kind of fantasy world they live in.

[orion9941]

9. Mine just went up 22% this year.

Plus where the property taxes we pay for where we live in our city is one of the highest in the city. After this latest increase we've had it and have decided to move to another neighborhood where the property taxes are lower.

[Divernan]

12. Lynn Swann, ex-steeler, GOP running for PA Governor -bogus tax relief

Lynn Swann, former Steeler & sports commentator just formally announced he's running for Governor in PA. All the idiot, sports-nut types who decide who to vote for on who they would rather have a shot and a beer with are SOOOOOOOO excited. "Duh, I always wanted to vote for a Stiller!" Swann has never held a govt. office or even a corporate management job in his life, and he would be a puppet like Bush in the governor's office. Don't know who his handlers are, but they would be in charge. It would be a real disaster for the state.

But to get to the tax issue, in his speech he said he would greatly reduce property taxes without "putting a bandaid" on them, or switching the taxes collected to another tax, like the sales or personal income or wage taxes. And this of course, is just what all the "people" want to hear. Of course, Swann did not offer a single explanation or fact of how the state, county, townships or school districts would continue to pay all their costs. In fact, taxes are a zero sum game, and what politicians like to call tax "reform" is always only tax "shifting". When the feds cut their support to the states and local governments,the states & loc. govts. have to increase their tax rates.

[auburngrad82]

14. So what will the wingnuts call him, the Immaculate Governator?

:evilgrin:

Eventually the idiocy of the wingnuts will come back and bite them in the ass. I hope it's November 2004

[Divernan]

16. Great term - I'll spread it around the state!

nt

[onenote]

22. did the tax rate go up or did their bill go up because property values

went up? Not trying to make any point, just trying to understand the source of the increase.

onenote

[auburngrad82]

23. The County revalued their property

Thereby increasing the taxes. They've been there for 20 years with no changes to the property that would constitute the increase in value.

[onenote]

25. property values in Arlington are skyrocketing

In 2004, the median sales price of a home in Arlington was over $450,000. And while the rate of increase may have slowed in 2005, prices certainly haven't fallen. Unfortunately, your parents could have left the lawn unmowed and the house unpainted for the past five years and the value of their house almomst certainly would have more than doubled. The fact is that, Arlington's Democratic majority board has cut real property taxes several times in recent years, such that the current rate is, as I understand it, the lowest its been since 1995. But because property values have been skyrocketing, the amount paid in still increases. It puts a burden on retirees who have a fixed income, sometimes forcing them to sell and move. Its a problem, but not one that is easily fixed.

onenote

[auburngrad82]

26. They live out in the country in central Virginia

Nowhere near Arlington. Taxes have increased in North Carolina where I live as well. A lot of it has to do with state and local governments trying to cover shortfalls created by the Bush administration and the GOP's tax cuts for the rich and the subsequent attempts to decrease the deficit by cutting funding for everything except the ultra rich's tax cuts.

[onenote]

31. sorry, my bad

I somehow got the impression they were in Arlington. And you are right that the need for local tax revenues (produced through property taxes) is exacerbated by federal cuts. In Virginia, the battle over whether to raise taxes was a huge fight last year. However, even in parts of central Virginia (in the boonies) property values have gone through the roof. Not sure if that's the case for your folks, but when I was in C'ville last year talking to some locals, they were describing how areas a considerable distance from the city that were considered definite "low rent" areas were now selling for ridiculous prices.

onenote

[SoCalDem]

36. It's a backhanded way to gentrify an area

and to move elderly people out of their homes. When people who are now old, bought/built their homes way back when, they had NO idea that someday their neighborhood would turn into what so many of them have today. For a LONG time, property changed hands in towns, but the towns themselves changed very little. The boom areas were impossible to predict 45 years ago, so when individuals get caught up in it, they are screwed in many ways. Their children become unable to buy in their own communities, and elderly people on fixed incomes cannot afford to live in their own homes because of taxes. The taxes can force them to have to move.

People who paid off their homes did so to be secure in their old age, and when they paid it off years ago, they never counted on having to spend such a high percentage of their income having to go to heating, lighting, gasoline to get around, and on top of it all, taxes...and then what percentage of their income goes to medicine & health care? Basically, if you are not rich, "owning" a home is not very easy these days if you are old...even if you paid it off years ago.

It may be time for the grown children of these elders to step in and pay the taxes for their parents, or that house they hoped to inherit someday and sell after their parents are gone, will be gone well before Mom & Dad are gone.

[lectrobyte]

29. Come on, if they sold it today would they sell it for what they paid

for it 20 years ago? I kind of doubt it, the value has gone up I would suspect. It's a bitch to have taxes go up, but they should consider themselves lucky if they were able to pay the same property taxes for 20 years. Where I live in NC, properties seem to be reappraised every 3 or 4 years, and often dramatically.

[auburngrad82]

30. It was just revalued two years ago.

A 62% increase in 2 years? Prices must be rising faster than those of gasoline!

Yes, prices rise over time. Not that fast though.

I'm not anti-tax. I think taxes are necessary to pay for things that I think are necessary. I'm just pointing out that all the "tax cuts" that the GOP is so proud of is just redirecting who pays the taxes from the wealthy to the regular people.

I also live in North Carolina. Since 2001 I've seen about a 50% increase in my health insurance, about a 40% in fuel prices, and a big jump in property taxes.

The first two are because the current federal government is allowing the oil and pharmaceutical companies to run roughshod over the general populace in order to produce record profits. So much for consumer protections. The third is related to the fact that all states and local governments are facing shortfalls and need to generate revenues to replace all the funds that have been cut by the federal government since Bush and his boys pushed through the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in 2002.

I don't blame the states for raising taxes. They need to run their government and, unlike the Bush government, in many cases they have to submit balanced budgets.

[lectrobyte]

39. Sorry, I was way too harsh, I read the OP as 62% in 20 years

somehow.

[auburngrad82]

49. NP, and in 20 years it wouldn't be out of the ordinary

Taxes over the last 4 years have skyrocketed on a local and state level as local and state governments make up for shortfalls from federal spending cuts.

It effects us all. I just wish everyone could see it.

[sendero]

27. A point about property taxes....

..... that many don't understand. Now I'm talking about Texas here, where we don't have an income tax and so property taxes provide most of the revenue.

There is a tax rate, and an appraised value. The tax rate is the percentage of the appraised value that will be the tax amount.

Ther way it works here, and I suspect in most places is this: you are essentially paying a "portion" of the entire revenue collected based on the relative valuation of the property you own. By that I mean, the tax authority cannot raise overall revenues by raising appraised values. The total collected is set by law, and the appraised value is just used to figure out how much of the total you are going to pay.

Used to be, the country did reappraisals rather infrequently, and appraisal valuations were often way way below market value. The problem with this is that it was not fair. People who just bought a new house were being taxed at the selling price, and older homes might be being taxed at half their market value. Of late, appraisals are more frequently adjusted and they are pretty close to market value. They want to stay a little under, because there is an appeals process and if you can reasonably prove that the valuation is out of line with the actual market price, you can get an adjustment. I know, because I successfully got my valuation lowered once. I told them fine, find me a buyer for that price, and I'll sell. :)

My point is this - property taxes are complicated. And without knowing the actual value of the property, the previous valuation and the current valuation, there is no way to assess how fair or unfair this is, at all.

[Cleita]

41. This was how property taxes were collected in California

before the Jarvis ammendment. Many old people lost their homes because they couldn't afford the higher taxes on a fixed income.

So many a liberal voted for the Jarvis ammendment which reduced property taxes to 2% per year. They should have been wary of Republicans bearing gifts.

A better way of doing it is too fix taxes on the primary residence at the time the property was purchased. Other than that, owners of secondary homes, homes for rentals and out of state homebuyers should pay according to the appraised value of those homes.

In my area alone, over 60% of the homes in my area are vacation or second homes. Mostly they go empty most of the year and the people who need homes, the workers, often live in homeless shelters, trailer parks and other marginal housing.

[sweetheart]

55. but the issue you omit

is that a progressive view on tax looks at income. A retired couple on a fixed income
is not in any position to handle changing appraisals, or any other property tax issues
based on "value".

The UK has no property tax per-se, but rather what is called a "council tax" and this is
rationalized as the tax for garbage pickup, roads service, water and sewage in your town.
The more a house is worth, the higher its band in the council tax, but
the ultimate determinant of the tax is the persons living there... as it involves
headcount. This tax is levied on all persons in a community, not on the property.
I think the term "property tax" is used with it, only to keep it from being called
its common name: "poll tax"... a tax on headcount for the right to vote. In a funny
way, it is that, but arn't all taxes.

Property does not use sewage, people do. People have varied incomes over a lifetime,
so the tax needs be progressive for when persons are not so solvent.

You can see the main difference when you look at the exemptions at this link:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/n6w/index/life/tax/council_tax.htm

[sendero]

56. The problem is..

.... no matter how you do it, nobody likes paying taxes. In Texas, we have no income tax but property taxes are consequently high.

In Texas, there is a "homestead exemption", that reduces the appraised valuation by $56,000. That helps some, but certainly folks on a fixed income struggle.

I prefer progressivity in all taxation schemes, but to look at the reality of it is it really fair to increase property taxes on young people who own a $75,000 home to reduce the taxes on a retired person's $250,000 home? Probably not.

[sweetheart]

57. that is why i posted that link

the exemptions to the council tax are exemplary for a more
progressive system. I understand the reality of texas property
taxes as presented and am merely exploring what "progressive"
mind does in this area of taxation, if we use it at all.

[sendero]

58. I agree with you..

.... that a tax system outlined there is very progressive, and I would certainly support such a system.

However, the political reality in America is that such a system will never happen. :(

In Texas, our big problem du jour is school financing. Many years ago, the state started funnelling tax revenues from property-rich districts to poor districts in an attempt to make the schools at least close to equal state wide. The "Robin Hood" plan was immediately attacked by the richer districts (where I live) and after years of legal wrangling was declared unconstitutional. Now, this perfectly good method of achieving equality has been scrapped, but the legislature has been unable, after many months, to come up with a better alternative.

Rich greedy people really piss me off, and there are plenty of them here in Dallas.

[Number9Dream]

35. Is their school district spending crazy?

Here in the Lehigh Valley, PA, we have many Taj-Mahal school districts, who rejected optional property tax relief initiatives.
My old high school in NJ was bare-bones-basic, and I managed to go on to college. We had no swimming pool, we shared a football stadium with no lights, and our cafeteria was far from being a food court.
Some Lehigh Valley high schools have natatoriums, planetariums, food courts, and padded bleacher seats. One gym has a rock-climbing wall. The Bethlehem school district wants to supply all students with their own laptops!
I don't know how much longer I'll be able to afford to live here, and I'm not retired!

[auburngrad82]

37. That I couldn't tell you

They have no kids in school and all the grandkids live in other states.

[nonews]

43. local taxes

federal government has nothing to do with local taxes

[Ksec]

45. when they cut fed taxes

that puts a higher burden on locals to pay . Ststes must then pay more for highways, police, fire, schools etc. So cutting fed taxes raises your local taxes

[nonews]

46. states

states have their own highway funds, etc. This is clear example of poor fiscal management ALL the way around, not just Federal

[auburngrad82]

53. Right...

If the states managed their money better then we could afford to give trillion dollar tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans.

The poor fiscal management is most obvious at the top.

[Ksec]

44. EXACTLY

The idiots dont get it. It costs what it costs and if it isnt fed taxes , itll be state, local, property taxes that pay it.

As far as your parents property taxes Id say thats a huge jump in property assesments saying the property is worth 62% more this cycle. Thats bullshit. They got robbed.

[pitohui]

47. if they're retired why not request assessment be frozen?

i guess if they're retired i don't understand why they don't file to have their assessment frozen, so that the taxes can't be raised as long as they live there, is that only done in louisiana?

how could people no longer in the work force ever afford to keep their homes if assessments can keep rising after they have retired and have a fixed income?

i would research this a little more, the money paid is gone i think, but you could get it frozen for subsequent years at least

assuming one of them is already age 65, of course, if they are young retirees, they're just screwed and i'm sorry

[auburngrad82]

54. Their over 65 and thanks for the idea

I doubt they ever thought about it. I don't know if Virginia does such a thing but I'll suggest it to them.

[wishlist]

60. Most areas have tax exemptions for over 65, but often only for low income

They may qualify for a property tax exemption or freeze, however many areas do not automatically grant relief just based on age, but eligibility is also based on meeting an income/asset limit.