What the heck is going on in France?

[DFWdem]

I thought this type of crap ended a month ago.

http://washingtontimes.com/world/20060104-115755-9546r.htm

A gang of more than 20 youths -- thought to be North African immigrants -- terrorized hundreds of train passengers in a rampage of violence, robbery and sexual assault on New Year's Day, French officials said yesterday.

The gang of between 20 and 30 youths boarded the train, heading from Nice on the French Riviera to Lyon, in eastern France, early on Jan. 1, as it carried 600 passengers home from New Year's Eve partying overnight. Once inside, they went wild, forcing passengers to hand over mobile phones and wallets, and slashing seats and breaking windows.

A waitress in a bar near the station said two young women from the train had come inside in tears. "They told me there had been groping. They talked about sexual assaults. They were really traumatized," she said.

The opposition Socialist Party said it viewed the incident with "astonishment." It said "such acts show a worrying lack of security" and questioned why it took so long for police to rescue the passengers and why so few arrests were made.


Apparently this went on for 5 HOURS before the police decided to do something about it. Unbelievable.

[LSK]

1. deep seating problems do not go away overnight

When you economically opress and isolate a whole group of citizens, things like this start to happen.

[corporate_mike]

24. true

[reichstag911]

2. Washington Times?

I would be skeptical of anything that Moon-rag publishes. Not saying it didn't happen, but I'd wait for more credible corroboration before even discussing.

[DFWdem]

3. I was skeptical, but...

The story was done by "AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE". I'm guessing that's like a French version of the AP?

[amandabeech]

27. Yes, Agence France Press (AFP) is the French version of AP

or Reuters. I read them frequently, because they have stories not seen in U.S. or U.K. papers, and frequently write from a different perspective. They are high recommended in my book.

[nickinSTL]

4. How about the BBC?

However, New Year's day saw between 20 and 40 teenagers, many of Arab or north African origin, go on the rampage on a train between Nice and Lyon, intimidating and robbing passengers, and allegedly sexually assaulting at least one young woman.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4581332.stm

Oddly, though, this was all I could find on BBC. There didn't seem to be (as far as I could find) a story from Jan 1 or 2 on the train incident itself.

[oregonindy]

5. I get really angry at herd victim mentality....it was only 20 or 30 vs 600

you rush the bastards and take them out

[pocket]

8. a small coherent group generally beat a large group of individuals

Happens all the time.

The small groups knows they have backup. Each of the many individuals has no idea if anyone else will step forward with him, or if he'll be alone and slaughtered.

[Blue_Tires]

23. that's my thought as well

unless that 30 was heavily armed and the 600 were a bunch of senior citizens, i don't understand how that happens

[enigma000]

6. This is just beginning

I suspect 5 years from now the average day in France is going to look just like your average day in Iraq: assassinations, bombings, utility shortages. Its going to be a mess. My advice is this, if you ever wanted to see the Louvre go there soon. A decade from now it might just be a crater.

I wonder where the French keep their nukes? Might be time to consider "relieving" them of their nukes, if you know what I mean......

[AllieB]

10. Do you live in France?

It is not nearly as politically divided as the US, and it's much more civilized. My sister and I lived in France for years, and I was there in November, when the worst of the riots were happening. There were no disruptions of train service, shortages, nor did we see anything happen in the middle of Paris. Kids don't have guns, so they rob people and burn cars. This does not excuse their criminal behaviour. BTW the crime rate is not nearly as high as in the US.

I doubt one of the world's strongest economies will fall from the rioting that's occurring. The US withstood the Watts and Newark riots. As much as you probably would like, France isn't going anywhere soon.

[bicentennial_baby]

12. oh give me an f'n break...

puhleeze... :eyes: France will be fine, as will the Louvre. don't you worry your pretty lil head about it... :eyes:

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[enigma000]

15. pardon?

Did I say I was looking forward to this? I'm just pointing out there is a large and alienated underclass in France and I don't think they are going to be easily assimilated.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllieB]

18. While I'm not as blunt as you, I agree with your assertion.

;-)

[AllieB]

17. It's not as large as the American underclass

How do you knw so much about France? Just curious...

[enigma000]

22. I'm sure its not

I guess I know what I know from the papers. And maybe I've been brainwashed but it looks like the French have a growing problem. And I might have been a bit glib with the nukes remark but I think their social problems aren't easily solvable and in the long term this could be trouble.

[AllieB]

25. The French will eventually be forced to deal with their problems

and they will. You're doing a great job spreading the anti-French message of the current administration and mainstream media.

[LSK]

26. actually, he is pointing out flaws in conservative ideology

When you economically isolate a class of people, bad things can happen. Not sure why you are confusing this valid point with generic France bashing.

[Citizen Jane]

7. I read a pretty detailed story about this...

but now I can't find it. Anyone who wants to try to dig, it was on the website of the Italian paper La Repubblica.

[Citizen Jane]

9. Found it.

Link here:

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/a/sezioni/esteri/trenofrancia/trenofrancia/trenofrancia.html

Apparently it took people I while to get the word out because they grabbed or disabled the cell phones car by car first. Also, there is some confusion as to whether or not the police can actually go on the trains without authorization from the railway authorities. Then you add in the fact that they only sent 3 officers. Most of the group escaped when the train started moving again and the officers were transferring them from one carriage to another and one of the two gans/groups pulled the emergency stop switch between two cities and they jumped off the train.

Edited for typos..

[radwriter0555]

11. The story also wrongly indicated that the incident took some 5 hours when

it didn't... the entire train ride from Nice to Lyon is 5 hours, via Marseilles. Marseilles is 2 hours by car from here. And I am here, in France, in Cannes. Now. Cannes is next to Nice. The train ride to Marseilles from here is about 1.5 hours total.

The incident was wild drunken kids with easy prey, and plenty of opportunity. The police didn't know about the dollar fare which lead to the various social groups inter-mingling.

It was an isolated incident. Sorry, I know the republicans are imagining hordes of muslims taking over France, but it's not happening.

[AllieB]

13. How much do you want to bet

that some of the people happily celebrating the demise of France have never been there? They obviously don't understand that the world's fourth largest economy is not going to fall any time soon. If anything, with the unification of Europe, it's only going to rise.

[DFWdem]

21. Say what???

"The police didn't know about the dollar fare which lead to the various social groups inter-mingling."

The various social groups inter-mingling? So anytime the various social groups intermingle without a robust police presence we should expect this kind of behavior, and you don't see that as a problem?

Also, while a non-stop train ride may take 5 hours, the article states that the train was stopped for a while:

"Train staff alerted police, and the train pulled into a station to wait. The three officers who initially turned up later were joined by reinforcements. "

"The train resumed its journey with the heavy police presence on board but, just before Marseille, the youths pulled the emergency stop and many escaped."


I don't know that this can legitimately be called an isolated incident after the riots of a few weeks ago that lasted for 2 weeks.

[radwriter0555]

28. There were no actual riots. There were no groups of protestors with signs

or any organization whatsoever making any statement about anything while those nutso kids were torching out the cars... it was kids getting away with what they could for no good or real OR STATED REASON, and just to see crap go boom like in the movies.

You cannot find one single photograph anywhere of a gang of kids in protest during the car burning vandalism. You can find plenty of pix of cops in riot gear, but no riots.

The media -- in particular the US media -- has desperately tried to turn that wave of vandalism into some radical muslim terrorist fete, which it never was.

The US crime rate is still far and above THE worst crime rate of all developed nations. Better look to fixing the US before worrying about the piddly problems of France.

Some kids on a train on new years roughing up some partyers isn't a world crisis and doesn't mean the terrorists have taken over France.

[AllieB]

29. Well-said, radwriter0555

:applause:

[Loonman]

19. France doesn't care about assimilating or job training their immigrants

France is never good at problems that involve non-French people.

[radwriter0555]

30. Name a country that's good at solviing problems that involve non-nationals

...

*crickets chirping*

[JVS]

20. Wow. Just like pirates!

[Greyhound]

31. Over-hyped, non-incident to disparage a nation that proves the

lie of amerikan capitalism. Now watch the shiny object... :eyes: