Does it feel like the crisis has passed?

[yurbud]

I know the Bushies probably have a couple of nasty last gasps and flailings in them to try to scare the bejesus out of people so they stop thinking and love him again, and they could rig the election in '06 and '08, but it feels like the danger has passed and one way or another, we are going to drift back toward something more like where we were pre-Bush, if not better, especially given the trend of public opinion.

This is totally subjective, but I'm wonder if others feel the same way.

[yurbud]

1. OK, if you vote no, tell me why, so I can go insominiac again

[EstimatedProphet]

2. No way

Here's why, to me:

This last round of treason from the Right shows that Bush's base will back him to the point of lining up to be executed, if they thought it would keep him in power. He should have collapsed by now. The fact that he hasn't means these people will never go away, and they will eventually become so full of self-righteosness and sadistic hunger that they will take to the streets "to finish the job the guvmint ain't done with yet." They WILL start coming for us all. It's just a matter of time.

[yurbud]

4. without a majority, he's left with dregs--they have guns but not brains

I don't think the short bus commandos will be able to get the rest of us under control.

[EstimatedProphet]

7. Well, let me just say that I'm not worried about them winning

But I am convinced that they will get to the point where they decide to take things into their own hands en masse regardless of who is in charge. If bush is impeached, it will be revenge on the lieburals who took away God's gift to them. If he consolidates his power, they will eventually decide that they have the divine right to kill people they consider "dark-sided". There may not be enough of them for it to go their way, or enough smart ones to be of any use at all, but the day it happens will be dark indeed.

[yurbud]

10. I thought we would get to that point, but the time to try that was at 60%

or above.

You can't use violence as a tool as the minority. You'll get crushed.

[EstimatedProphet]

18. I agree, and I'm not arguing whether it will work

I think the main mitigating factor here is we have a large group of people that believe with total certainty that they are Right No Matter What. They are convinced of it, some of them believe that God tells them they are Right No Matter What, and they believe that not only are we Wrong No Matter What (and in many cases evil), but that we are involved in a huge conspiracy to keep them powerless and un-raptured. This is Heaven's Gate stuff, but instead of them thinking they will magically go to their reward, many of them believe that the world must be destroyed, by their actions, for them to get to their reward.

Yeah, we're nowhere near past the bad times coming.

[yurbud]

26. the bright side is, most in government DON'T believe in rapture except

the rapture of rolling around in oceans of money.

There is a chance Bush might believe that stuff, but I doubt it.

Uncle Dick definitely does not.

[EstimatedProphet]

39. It doesn't matter

When you have a group of people that are delusional, that believe they are God's chosen people and that everyone else is a tool of Satan, and believe that they are involved in a holy war which will result in their going to their reward where they can gloat over other people's pain and misery and death-you have a bad situation.

The government doesn't have to do anything for these people to keep being delusional, and anything that happens is automatically interpreted within their delusional framework. They see what they want to see, regardless. The fact is, there is no bright side to people believing this sick Domionist bile. It is a powderkeg waiting to explode. The Bush administration has been extremely shortsighted in empowering these lunatics. I believe that there is little seperating Dominionists from mass-murderers except a matter of time. They openly want the majority of people on earth to die, and believe that it will be a holy thing to aid in obliteration of humanity. What this means is that 1) either Bush manages to start a disastrous war involving the entire Middle East, with their approval, or 2) a great war is avoided, and the Dominionists get pissed off that their plans were averted and try to take things into their own hands in some way.

Yeah, they scare me. Crazy people that believe their salvation is dependent on me dying scare me, especially armed ones.

[AndyTiedye]

19. They Are Armed to the Teeth

[yurbud]

33. there were definitely days I worried about them going Hutu on us

The scariest thing was political discourse and action was moving toward the lynch mob mentality of right wing talk radio, and their columnist like Ann Coulter. The gap was closing between rhetoric and reality, and several of their talking heads discussed rounding up or killing those that didn't follow their beloved leader.

I used to enjoy reading or listening to their stuff or even hearing someone go off on a rant in person, so I could analyze what they are saying, see if they have any new arguments, or even valid points. Now after 9/11, I can only take them in very small doses because I it bothers me so much that these people could fucking kill me, and it would just take the slightest of pressure to move them that small step from violent rhetoric to violent action.

[AndyTiedye]

21. All That Means Is That They're Wrecking the Country Even Worse

they have guns but not brains

[justabob]

3. We've got a ways to go

I think BushCo has the will to go all the way with their plans and so much of it is already up and running... we just haven't heard about it all yet. We are now learning about things that supposedly started in 2002 and earlier.... imagine what they have done that we DON'T yet know about during the last three or four years. Plus, what we know about what is also coming soon... federal police force, Patriot Act fight, no telling what kind of executive orders are going to continue to flow out... on and on. We aren't out of the woods yet, and if more people don't snap out of it soon, we are going to be stuck with this mess for a long time.

[yurbud]

5. yeah, but people don't believe what they haven't seen...

the torture and widespread wiretapping are things that people would have said were paranoid fantasies if you predicted it before hard evidence.

Few leaders seem to be willing to go out on a limb and figure out what their NEXT moves are going to be. They seem to be content with revealing the prior ones.

I could see them trying the police state or another terror attack, but the fundamental difference is they have lost the trust of the Pentagon, CIA, and the majority of the public, so acts of desperation are likely to blow up in their face and accelerate their downfall.

[justabob]

9. I know

but that isn't what I meant exactly... I mean that we here know how bad this admin is and even if we don't know exactly what he's got up his sleeve we know that there are a few things, like the federal police thing, that support the supposition that there is more coming. I wasn't really thinking about how to sell these ideas to the masses, just answering your question about whether the danger has passed.

[bananas]

6. Bush has three more years to start WWIII

When he starts bombing Iran, things will get worse real fast.

[American liberal]

8. what he (or she) said n/t

[yurbud]

13. I think Iran has been working to make that harder with China & Russia

[justabob]

17. Yep nt

[uppityperson]

11. Enough people are not uncomfortable enough yet.

People have to be pretty uncomfortable for change to happen. Katrina/Rita helped, the job loss is helping, raising of prices is helping, gas/heating oil costing more is helping, deaths in Iraq is helping, enough publicity of the amorality of the administration is helping, but people are not uncomfortable enough yet and the crisis has not yet passed. The recession must be worse, more jobs lost, more retirement disappearing, more people dying and homeless for it to hit home enough for the change to happen.

I am positive about the publicity improving the last 6 months, but the crisis has not passed yet.

[niyad]

12. are you kidding?? these people are so damned arrogant that they

think they can get away with turning this into a complete theocratic police state, no matter what it takes. I think we are in for even worse than most of us imagine.

[yurbud]

16. don't you think if they try worse that the public backlash will be worse?

and swifter?

[AndyTiedye]

20. I Think They Actually Revel in Our Disapproval

[yurbud]

22. that would be stupid--though slightly possible

What has shocked me about these guys is there's a great deal of crap you can get away with and enough people won't notice to stop you--but they have so dramatically over-reached that they have inflamed the otherwise apathetic.

Do they really think Americans aren't capable of doing what the Russians did less than two decades ago?

[regnaD kciN]

14. I wish I could feel more optimistic...

...but, unless we can defeat Alito and keep Bush in hot water until November, we're in as dangerous a position as we've ever had.

If Bush and the Republicans succeed in ramming Alito through the Senate, it's all over. Based on his pro-warrentless-eavesdropping comments, it seems safe to say we'd have a SCOTUS majority that believes that a President has near-absolute authority to bypass the Constitution whenever he feels it necessary. We'd be on the road to dictatorship, and not even an electoral housecleaning of Congress would be enough to stop it. Bush would do whatever he wanted, and the SCOTUS would rubber-stamp it as perfectly legal, leaving Congress powerless. It would be like the 2000 (s)election decision every time. :-(

[AndyTiedye]

15. The Danger Increases as their Hold on Power is Threatened

I know the Bushies probably have a couple of nasty last gasps and flailings in them to try to scare the bejesus out of people so they stop thinking and love him again,

It is the only thing that has ever worked for them.:scared:

and they could rig the election in '06 and '08

It's easy when you're someone like Ken Blackwell. Votes are just bits on the disk. Behind 35-65? No problem! Watch them "win" by 65-35. And watch the media make excuses for the discrepencies. :boring:

Even easier when you can Watergate your opponents continuously and get away with it.

Say good morning to President Jeb Bush. :scared:
and a filibuster-proof majority to boot. :scared::scared:

Or if they can't rig the election plausibly and continue to stonewall the prosecutors, they drop the facade and go to martial law.
(Does anyone else think Patrick Fitzgerald bears an uncanny resemblence to whoever played the prosecutor in the movie "Z"?)

but it feels like the danger has passed and one way or another, we are going to drift back toward something more like where we were pre-Bush, if not better, especially given the trend of public opinion.

This is totally subjective, but I'm wonder if others feel the same way.

Can I PLEASE have some of whatever it is that you are smoking :smoke:

[LibertyorDeath]

23. yurbud they are just getting started

In a larger sense Bush is not the problem the media is not the problem

The individuals that control and own them are
bush will be replaced by some other thug when it suits them.

The foundation for a police state has been laid it has been decades in the making.

The people behind the curtain are not going anywhere.

The Worlds resources are ruining down and they plan on making the best of what's still around and that does not include "we the people"

Politics is about Power and the people with the REAL POWER are not politicians.

Politicians are just window dressing.

Unless Americans shake off their deadly apathy
and demands Justice these power mad freaks are going to fuck us like we've never been fucked before.

Count on it.
They are just getting started imo

[yurbud]

27. elite aren't going away, but may revert to screwing us in quieter ways

like Arnold just shifted to here in CA, with his autobahn plan. The contract will likely go to the usual suspects, our tax dollars will be wasted, but most of us will be screwed so gently by something like that, it will just feel like a slight ass itch.

[LibertyorDeath]

40. LOL !

You have a great way of getting your thoughts across.

"but most of us will be screwed so gently by something like that, it will just feel like a slight ass itch."

"elite aren't going away, but may revert to screwing us in quieter ways"

That would be the best scenario we can hope for right now


Cheers

[donheld]

24. yurbud I feel you're a bit premature in your optimism

Until is see some real action being taken against this cabal I will continue to fear this group. I see words now I want action.

[yurbud]

28. its just a feeling. It's hard to see them getting their mojo back

Can they still do damage to us and the rest of the world?

Yes.

Can they retain control long term?

Now, clearly NO.

[donheld]

44. I think it's unwise to underestimate the lengths

that the neo-cons will go.

[yurbud]

45. I'm not--just prospects for success at regaining public support

without that, they can't hold on to power indefinitely, and once gone, they will be out for a good long time.

[The2ndWheel]

25. This didn't start with Bush

and it certainly isn't ending with him, either.

Drift back toward something more like pre-Bush days? What was so great about pre-Bush days? The wonders of the Clinton years? Those years when we supported sanctions on Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of children(what, as long as our dear soldiers don't get hurt?)? The years where economic globalization was being thrown down our throats with a smiling smooth talking face?

Bush is such a small part of "the crisis" that it's just completely insane to think when he's gone things will magically be fixed, we'll all live happily ever after, in our world where everyone gets treated fairly, and justice is held up against all that would attempt to break the law.

[yurbud]

30. Sadly, the big difference with Dems is they screw us less, foreigners

about as much as GOP.

I don't think we'll automatically live happily ever after, but things will move back into the fixable range, and we'll have time to fix them without worrying about the institutions of democracy being shut down.

[Marr]

32. Very true. I do think the Bush Admin. represents a sort of endgame

for them though. For decades we've had many of these same policies, sometimes in softer forms, sometimes not- but always covered and somewhat inconspicuous. It seems like, with the Bush Administration, they finally reached a point where they just decided the smokescreens were more expensive that just brashly putting it all on display.

It seems like they've been cashing in their chips on so many fronts for the last few years. Just one small symptom- for years it was taboo to suggest the US had an empire. You'd be laughed at if you said so publicly. I about fainted a couple of years ago when I read an op-ed titled "Why Not Empire?" in the paper (either the Wall Street Journal or the NYT, IIRC).

[yurbud]

37. yeah, I saw something like that in George Will too. Problem is past

empires could use mass retaliation, over-whelming force, and weren't required to put up even a pretense of democracy.

The internet and world media, imperfect as it it, makes it impossible to use the level of brute force necessary to hold onto an empire of unwilling subjects.

I just hope the empire crumbles in other places too, like Latin America. I can't imagine another Pinochet or Operation Condor in South America succeeding today.

[Marr]

29. I think they're about ready to go for broke, personally.

Consider this for a moment. Everything these guys have done has been supremely authoritarian. They have attempted to place all power in the Executive Branch in a thousand different ways. You don't do that and then just give up the WH.

I know it sounds nuts, but I really think we've got a sort of perfect storm of fools, crooks, and arrogant robber barons in power at the moment. Small-minded people do not let go of power. I almost expect there to be some sort of showdown before these people leave. I don't think the law alone will compell them to exit the WH in 2009.

[SPKrazy]

31. Shit hasn't even started to hit the fans IMO!

I think these guys are going to start feeling cornered, and who knows what is next!

[Uncle Joe]

34. Do you like sports analogies? If you do,

I believe we are early in the third quarter of a game that will go in to overtime.

The Truth Team however is playing much better than they did in the first half, when they forgot to put their uniforms on. We have just scored a field goal with Delay announcing he will not keep his position, however depending on who the Repubs pick to replace him will more likely determine which side momentum is on. We are still behind in the score and with some of the refs bought and paid for by the Evil Team, this will still be an uphill fight. Do not leave your seats for a restroom break, rapid developments could occur within a short period of time, just have another beer and cross your legs.

:toast: :popcorn:

[yurbud]

35. "forgot to put their uniforms on..."

that sounds about right.

[graywarrior]

36. They're cornered rats at this point.

Multiplying and carrying bubonic plague fleas.

[SmokingJacket]

38. We will know this fall.

If the fall elections really do swing dem, I'll believe the worst is over.

If not... the shit has only just begun.

[yurbud]

42. If Dems fuck up this election, people will go the route of Russia at White

Palace.

People will go in the streets, and when the Bushies tell the military to put them down, they will refuse.

Then it will be over.

[yorkiemommie1]

41. i think that they will do ANYthing to retain power

ANYTHING. The laws of the land mean nothing to them.

[yurbud]

43. morally, you are right, practically, I'm not sure everything is within

their reach any more.