Anyone know anything about Quixtar/Amway?

[D_Master]

I have a friend of mine who is 23 ( I am 24) and he is getting involved with a "business team" who does e-commerce marketing for a website called Quixtar. Basically he gave my number to his "upline" who gave me a call (several times actually) and I met with the guy who invited me to a meeting where they spelled out the plan on how to make 50k a year with only working 10-15 hrs. a week. To me the plan the guy drew looked a lot like a pyramid scheme with those under you giving you a percentage of the business they buy and they brin in. At it's most innocent it's multi-level marketing, at its worst I found some articles on the internet saying it's a rip-off. I'm trying to convince my buddy that this is a scam but he's already getting cd's and books and going to a national conference (which he spent $150 to go to) as well as pay $5 a week to go to "seminars" where they "train" you. I just wonder if anyone has had a run in with this organization and what you can tell me about their claims of money and work time?

[HereSince1628]

1. It is a pyramid structure, but because a product actually gets sold

and delievered it's been considered legal. Amway is the dream of people who believe in an endless stream of middlemen.

[Ian David]

2. I'd stay out of it. It's a pyramid scheme. n/t

[kedrys]

3. Stay the heck away

If your friend has already drunk the koolaid, there may not be much you can do, but save yourself at least. In my personal experience with Amway, which was mercifully short, they're basically a cult that uses the lure of money instead of God to get people to sign on (don't worry, there's plenty of God thrown in later).

I went to one of their big conventions in San Antonio, and I left completely creeped out and disgusted. Apparently, I was the only non-repub in the place, and I realized I needed to be elsewhere in a hurry after the endless parade of Amway stars hawking the business.

What pretty much cinched it for me was the endless "you are not of the body" dirty looks I got (even from my traveling companions - the "upline") the next day, Sunday, when I decided to sleep in and watch Wimbledon instead of going to the religious service.

Google "amway horrow stories" and check out some of the ordeals that some recruits went through.

The whole thing was just bizarre. I could go on, but take my word for it, run out of the room screaming. Do it now.

[1monster]

14. Loads of God thrown in. At every convention, big meeting, or do of

Amway, they actually had an "inspirational speaker" after which anyone who wanted to "take Jesus as his/her personal savior" was invited to forward... Just like a Billy Graham crusade. :eyes:

edited to add: And Ronnie Reagan was their earathly god. Both De Vos and Van whatever his name was were friends of Ronnie and worshiped at the feet of his "trickle down" economy.

[PaDem]

4. I have a relative involved.........

it's a sham. It sucks you in and devours all of your time. If you do really well, which entails putting in a minimum of 40 hours a week worth of time, you might be able to pull in $20,000 a year after all of your "expenses". This is if your 40 hours a week are fruitful. The way people in this organization make money is on the sale of "tools". Tools are books (of a rah-rah motivational variety) and motivational CDs. Everyone involved is implored by their "upline" (person responsible for recruiting them into the organization)to buy "tools" on a monthly basis. You are told that success is impossible if you don't buy the tools on a monthly basis. The people at the very top of the organizational ladder make a boatload of money on these tools. They mass produce the CDs, which are basically motivational talks given at large arena based conventions (typically attend one of these per month) at a cost of perhaps a dollar per CD. They then sell them down the chain of command for maybe 6 dollars a pop. Essentially the very few folks sitting at the top make millions on these CDs. It's possible to reach the upper echelon in the organization if you bring enough people into it AND if those in on the tools scam trust that you will not go public or expose the scam. It's virtually impossible to make big money in this organization strictly by selling products and recruiting people into the fold underneath you. To make the big bucks you have to get in on the tools scam. Essentially the sale of products is a front for the fleecing of the sheep through sales of the tools. If you refuse to buy the tools, you are ostrecized by your upline and all but shunned by others in the organization.

Mind control is essential to the success of the organization (again, for the few at the top crust). Members are discouraged from watching the news, reading newspapers or reading anything outside of the motivational books or the Bible. Christianity is used to justify the shameless pursuit of wealth, and adherants are taught to loathe the poor. Being poor is shameful, poor people are lazy and indolent and even referred to as losers. GOP politics are pushed on adherants as well. Liberals are communists and weak minded. Some GOP politicians are actively involved in this organization. The founder is running for Governor of Michigan and was a big Bush donor. There is some pretty funny audio on the internet of Newt Gingrich speaking at an Amway convention where he suggests that Amway is going to save the Soviet Union. Quixtar folks will try to tell you that it's not Amway, but it is the EXACT same organization. Just changed the name after some bad press and legal problems.

There is sooooo much more I could say about this. I've done a ton of research and have debated both my relative and a friend who got sucked into this thing. Feel free to post any questions.

[MADem]

5. Whenever I hear AMWAY, I run like hell!!!

I've known a few people (not well, acquaintances, really) who tried to get me involved (I guess the rest of their pals were hiding behind the curtains, refusing to answer the door or phone!!). I'm not interested in making extra money, I like just screwing off when I can, so I was a bad person to approach for that sort of sucker deal.

What I did notice about these AMWAY types is that they are a)Desperate, b)Annoying and c) Cloying bastards--like a piece of dogshit on your heel that you simply cannot get rid of!

I had to get rude to get them to leave me alone!

[BR_Parkway]

6. Google info for the Devries (sp?) family that founded this - RW

the max, they are major Repug donors and their training seminars are major indoctrination into the koolaid.

[sproutster]

8. From someone who has been to one, it's just like on tv

Strobe lights. Heat. Talking forever. Money money money - family family family - values values values.

It was freaky. At the end you can't help but be lit up - everybody loves you. You will be rich...

LOL I was too much of a slacker for it to take. But at the end I was lit up for awhile.

[gollygee]

10. DeVos and Van Andel

are the families. Dick DeVos is running for governor of Michigan.

Right-wing Republicans. Power hungry. Evil company. Bad bad news.

[sproutster]

7. Oh dear god, I got dragged to one of their seminars in the 90's

Cult city.

I will state for the record, I love the laundry detergent, and buy it if I know an amway person.

[D_Master]

9. Confirmed what I read

Basically this thread confirms what I have read on other sites, especially the Dateline investigation into Quixtar. They said the $$$ is in the "tools", I was given one of these cd's for free by my friend's upline, I wanted it to this to it since someone said they are scary. I listen to it and it's a good listen, good story. Greg Duncan, IBOA VP talks about all the places he's gone and things he's done for his kids education, their famlies and their church, all the toys he's bought and I'm like how much $$ does this guy have? Or how long did it take you to make that up?

Also I am a Christian and my friend said that's what attracted him to this is that it's founded on "christian principles" and a lot of Christians have been successful.

I saw someone say they had more to post and if you could that would be great. Personally I don't want to do this but I'm trying to get my friend out but I don't think I will. Just post or message it to me directly.

[Lars39]

11. "If you work real hard, you too can be a millionaire".

Supply Side Jesus at it's best.
It's expected that you will use your church 'contacts' to reach your goals.
Sleep deprivation and up-line worship are some of the tactics used at the conventions/rallies.

They will stress that they do not want you talking and comparing notes with anyone unless it's someone higher up than you in the food-chain. It is a cult.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

19. Conklin products are so much better!

I wish I could afford to use them.

My Grandfather used to distribute them 15 years ago, they were a great company then, but I have no idea about now.

http://www.conklin.com/pg.asp?p=2

You can order straight from the company, and not have to deal with a salesman.

[oneold1-4u]

12. Born every day!

There are hundreds of MLMs out there and many are much more expensive to enter. Most like Amway start with one or two excellent products and then build inventory wanting more sales of a lot more junk.
Start one of your own with a new great item and you will be scrutinized by several government agencies quickly. If it is only something like a hula hoop (thins the hips) you may get away with it, but if it is something that takes away from a big establishment like OIL you can forget it!

[Jose Diablo]

13. I looked into it about a decade back

I had heard that Amway soap was the best and working in the appliance repair business, I figured selling soap was a natural add-on to repairing washing machines.

Went to a local get together that ended with everyone linking arms, swaying to the beat of "America the beautiful". I though, huh?

Trying to get the wholesale price of the soap before buying the 'starter package' was impossible. Then slowly, over a period of several months, it was explained I could make much more money by recruiting new downline sales people and get a cut of their sales.

Thinking through this sales scenario, it would go like this, getting a call to repair a washing machine, then once in the door, I was supposed to make a sales pitch to become involved in selling Amway products? Hmmmm, what's wrong with this picture?

So what I did, was convince the upline, he flew-in all the way from Dallas to do this, that having ready access inside someones home that I could recruit many new downlines, if only he would 'front' me about $300 worth of soap. I would pay him back of course. He bought it.

After getting the soap from the warehouse in Norcross, thats the last dealing I had with those poseurs. Never paid him back either.

It's a scam. First-off the soap is no 'better' than Tide, and the 'wholesale' cost is the same as Tide's retail cost. The whole point of it is to sell sales material and gain new sales people. It's not about selling a product.

Unless you can figure-out a way to 'play' the players, I'd stay away from it.

Edit to add: Before you think Jose is some evil guy, look at it from where I sit. I wanted to obtain what my costs would be, but was forced to buy this starter package for $100 before I could even determine my costs. Then the sales game plan changed into building a distribution network, a pyramid. Then investigating the claims that Amway soap was somehow better than all others, that proved false when I tested the soap in my own washing machine.

Maybe I am rationalizing, but I figured the $300 worth of soap was actually worth about $200 and my time investigating the whole deal was extended by them not being forthright from the start. I 'earned' every bit of that $300. I doubt the courts would get my money and effort back and they did try to scam me.

[tanyev]

15. My ex-husband fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

Run away as fast as you can. The only people who make big money in the program are the ones that speak at the pep rallies and produce the indoctrination tapes that you are strongly encouraged to buy. The products are OK, but there is no way to make money in Quixtar/Amway just by selling their mediocre products.

[DURHAM D]

16. If he converts to Amway you two will not be friends within a few weeks.

He will not be able to stop himself from recruiting you.

[Nikia]

17. When I was little, I thought that Amway was a drug

My mother was a probation officer and some of her clients were former drug dealers and/or users. I would overhear her talk about these clients with close relatives. "Mr. Smith is a pot dealer and got Mr. Jones involved with pot dealing. Mr. Jones got Mr. Adams involved with pot." She'd use the same language to describe Amway. "Mr. Smith is an Amway dealer and got Mr. Jones involved with pot dealing. Mr. Jones got Mr. Adams involved with Amway."

[burythehatchet]

18. WOW. Send info...How do I get in on this!!

[BeachBuckeye]

20. Best friend I ever had got involved and.........

He came to me a few months after getting involved with them and told me he could no longer associate with me because we "didn't share the same values" anymore. I hadn't changed, he had. He reminded me of someone taken in by a "Jim Jones" style cult. It is a pyramid scheme that sells terribly over priced products to the downline to feed the upline. Run like the wind!

[D_Master]

21. Sad

it's sad to think they rip off so many people and ruin relationships. That's why I'm trying to get as much info on the place now, because after he goes next weekend to Louisville for their big "Spring leadership conference" i have a feeling there will be no coming back.

[Batgirl]

22. Useful link

http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/

The site has a lot of good info plus a free downloadable book written by a former distributor. My interest in it came about because of a family member who was obsessed with "the program" to the point that it poisoned her relationships. All topics were twisted into a salespitch/recuitment effort. Distributors end up exploiting their friends and family, who are more likely to buy from them. And they're encouraged to avoid the ones who don't. On the grounds that being around "negative" people will have a bad influence on their success. Translated, why waste your time on relationships that aren't going to enhance your bottom line? Dear friends, close family members, even spouses have been kicked to the curb. And distributors are encouraged to hang out as much as possible with other cultists for reinforcement of the irrational belief system.

The mathematical irrationality of multi-level marketing schemes is easy to illustrate. The fact that so many fail to grasp it is testament to the power of wishful thinking. You're told success is as simple as recruiting a certain number of people to be your "downline." Let's say 10 for simplicity's sake. Doesn't sound too difficult on the surface, you only have to recruit 10 other people to distribute the stuff, and your percentage of their sales will provide you with a decent income. Except, for this to work, each of those 10 needs to have 10 more below them, and so on and so on. The equation breaks down quickly:
You
10 distributors
X 10 = 100 distributors
X 10 = 1,000 distributors
X 10 = 10,0000 distributors
X 10 = 100,000 distributors
X 10 = 1,000,000 distributors
X 10 = 10,000,000 distributors
X 10 = 100,000,000 distributors
X 10 = 1,000,000,000 distributors

The number of people needed to support you equals the population of a good sized town after just 4 levels.
It takes just a few more levels to exceed the population of the country.
For everyone to make this mythical decent income it would take a virtually infinite number of new recruits to occupy the bottom rungs of the ever-expanding pyramid. Since this is mathematically impossible, what really happens is people churn in and out of the bottom layers, depending on their pain threshold and how much money, time and energy they're willing to sacrifice in the pursuit of the fantasy. During the time they belong, they pay for mandatory attendance at the large cult hootenannies, and mandatory purchase of the books, tapes etc. This money flows to the actual top layers of the pyramid, the layers they're destined never to occupy.

I also find it fascinating there's a strong connection between this cult and the Republican party, in part because the current GOP has so many cultish aspects itself. I think there's a book waiting to be written about this subject.