Perhaps explaining the Abramoff scandal as to a child would work...

[LynnTheDem]

I am legally allowed to give donations to any party I want.

So I give the Dems $1000.

LEGAL.

And I give the Repubs $1000.

LEGAL.

In exchange for the $1000 to the Repubs, I ask them to do me a favor in return; a bribe.

ILLEGAL. I'm off to jail.

A Repub says sure, I'll do that favor for ya.

ILLEGAL. The Repub is off to jail.

Now...because I also gave $1000 to the Dems, does that make the Dems guilty?

NO OF COURSE NOT DUHHHHHHH.

If my husband/parent/sibling/neighbor/friend gave the Dems $1000, does that make the Dems guilty because they took donations from someone connected to me?

NO OF COURSE NOT DUHHHHHHH.

*******

In the Abramoff case, Abramoff didn't give Dems ONE SINGLE PENNY. But it would have been LEGAL if he had, AS LONG AS NO DEMS DID FAVORS IN EXCHANGE.

Now my neighbor's 5-year old girl understands the Abramoff situ after I explained the above to her...ya think maybe a few rightwingnuts will understand it now?

No, I don't think so either, rightwingnuts being the STUPIDEST MFers on the planet. But hey, can't say I didn't try. ;)

[MercutioATC]

1. It's more complicated than that. A question:

(actually, it's already a thread here at DU)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2353650

[LynnTheDem]

6. Your hypo is not a bribe.

It's not a quid pro quo, and wouldn't be illegal.

[MercutioATC]

7. I didn't say it was. Does it merit investigation, however?

If a Republican Senator had done this, would you feel that it should be looked into?

[LynnTheDem]

9. No. What is even remotely illegal about this hypo???

[MercutioATC]

13. O.K....many here seem to disagree (me included), but I respect your

assessment.

I believe the issue is that we have the appearance of a possible impropriety that exceeds simply "taking money from tribes" (which obviously isn't illegal). While there's no PROOF of wrongdoing, the situation presents a possibility of such (taking a service and/or money from a lobby who admits to bribery).

[blm]

2. Simpler: Tribe money wasn't DIRTY until Abramoff used it for BRIBES

to his pet Republicans.

[LynnTheDem]

4. Exactly. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Yes. And the equally-simple corollary to your explanation is this:

You don't bribe somebody who can't give you anything in return.

Why would anybody offer a Democrat money to introduce a bill, or vote for it, when the Democrats don't have enough power to do those things for which bribes are offered?

[LynnTheDem]

5. Exactly too. nt

[MercutioATC]

8. A "friend" on the House or Senate Appropriations Committee could

be deemed as something of value...even if their party didn't hold the majority (especially if you had a lot of other "friends" who's party DID hold the majority).


By that logic, no minority party lawmaker has ever accepted a bribe.

[LynnTheDem]

11. Did Abramoff give any $ to any Dems? NO.

Would it have been illegal if he had? NO.

Did Abramoff give $ to any Repubs? YES.

Was it illegal to do so? NO.

Did Abramoff ask & receive any favors for giving $ to any Repubs? YES.

Was it illegal to do so? YES.

You can have all the "friends" you want; did you pay them money to do favors for you? The law doesn't give a damn about "friends".

[MercutioATC]

14. We don't KNOW exactly what he did yet...

...the investigation is ongoing.

I'm not suggesting that there's any wrongdoing by Dems. I'm suggesting that the lack of FEC-recorded personal political donations to Dems isn't proof that he never gave anything to them.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. Well, you have a point.

But when you consider the philosophy of the K Street Project == Republican lobbyists only; discourage contributions to Dems == it's pretty hard to imagine Abramoff and his crew bribing (as opposed to merely contributing to) Democrats. Also, proving actual bribery means you have to show evidence of a specific quid pro quo. Without that, all campaign contributions could be considered bribery (which they really are; I mean in the legal, actionable sense). So I guess my point is just this -- if somebody says, well, the Dems were doing it too, the answer will be: So, what specific thing, exactly, were the Democrats able to deliver in exchange for this money? And I think the answer will be, nothing.

[Cocoa]

10. here's another simple version

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=80259&mesg_id=80259

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w050620&s=crowley062305

So there you have it. A rich Washington lobbyist apparently schemed to use money from Indian tribes to buy paramilitary equipment from Russian oil executives and send it to Israeli settlers in the West Bank. What could be simpler?

Actually, this sounds just like the sort of thing you'd hear from a schizophrenic homeless man ranting outside the White House. But in reality, it appears to be the story of Jack Abramoff.

[ladjf]

15. Unfortunately, a few of the dummies are posting on DU.