I need help in proving this....

[stop the bleeding]

I added this part on edit. Please focus on the red statement below and what I am asking in reference to this, so far all of the responses are about the wrong part. Please help :argh:


This is from another thread in the GD

Titled: NOT ONE DEM took ONE PENNY from Abramoff...and ABRAMOFF says so himself. - THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO PROVE - I can't make it any clearer than this.

The first part of the title I have no problems with. It is the second part in red that I would like to prove. My reasoning is simple, what better ammunition than this to shut up anyone who tries to bring up this argument. I also feel that I am not the only one who would like to prove this for our own sakes.

I asked the author to please source this part of the title so that it can be used in debates and was told to consult the plea agreement.

I read the entire agreement again, like most people on DU I have been following this story very closely. Nowhere in the plea agreement does Mr. Abramoff make this statement. I have asked the author of the thread for more clarification or better follow up information and have yet to receive a response.

So that is why I am posting this now.


Here is the link to the plea agreement - maybe I overlooked something:shrug:
http://news.findlaw.com/usatoday/docs/abramoff/usabrmff10306plea.pdf

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSK]

3. who has said the money came from Abramoff?

Its money from INDIAN TRIBES.

[stop the bleeding]

4. the money that the DEMS are giving away came from clients of Abramoff

not Abramoff himself, but that is not the point of my post/question.

Please go back and read the part in red and tell me when and where Abramoff said this.

Thank you advance for you thorough and expeditious help in this matter.

[Jackpine Radical]

5. What dems giving away what $$?

Link? Proof?

Some of the tribes & others who gave to Abramoff also gave perfectly legal $$ to Dems, but none of that money either went through Holy Jack or was paid out at his instigation,
Just 'cause Rush & Hannity say it doesn't make it so.

[notadmblnd]

6. As I understand it, some Dems may be giving away money

that some of Abramoffs clients gave them (which is not illegal). No democrate recieved dontations directly from Abramoff. If I am mistaken.. please provide names and a link so I can see this.

on edit: still I don't recall any specific dems giving back money. I do know that I read a story that Harry Reid refused to give back money Indian Tribes gave his campaign.

Oh ...and enjoy your stay here at Du.

[LSK]

11. Indian Tribes gave Dems money, NOT ABRAMOFF

"No democrate recieved dontations directly from Abramoff. If I am mistaken.."

If you are mistaken, then the FEC is mistaken too.

[notadmblnd]

27. Then please post a link where we can verify this

nt
on edit
I replied to the wrong post. my apologies.

[babylonsister]

12. That's my understanding as well; Dems are

giving money back to the original source, or to charity, but none of them can be linked directly to Abramoff, so it's moot.

[stop the bleeding]

16. that is not what I am asking - please see original post again. n/t

[babylonsister]

17. I know what you're asking and I don't have an answer. This

response is not to you.

[stop the bleeding]

22. sorry - I just felt that people were getting off subject and arguing over

something that is common knowledge here at DU, BTW do you think that person that posted at response #1 is trying to mess with us??

[babylonsister]

28. I'd say ignore #1. They've probably been

listening to too much crap from the MSM and not reading enough for themselves.
They will either get straightened out or kicked out. :)

[notadmblnd]

33. people are saying this, but I can not find

a link anywhere, where the remark is contributed to Abramoff himself.

[SmokingJacket]

36. No, dear. YOU are lying.

They did not get it from Abramoff.

He HATES dems. Why would he help them out?

[LSK]

2. i would think that using the FEC website is pretty good proof

How could the freeps refute the FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION?

www.fec.gov

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Ok where on there is the Abramhoff quote?

That is what the poster asked for.

And, FYI, a freeper sent that very link to me the other day to prove his argument that Abramhoff gave to Dems. So that works both ways LOL :)

[stop the bleeding]

10. thank you out of 6 responses you are the first one to get the gist of

my question and hence my reasoning for wanting to get this proved/proofed - sorry for the grammar.

Any luck?

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. See my reply #14

[LSK]

21. that proves how stupid the freeper is

Because there are no Democrats in that search.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. I know and it gets funnier

He posted a list of Dems who took $$ from Abramhoff and I thought gee that looks familiar. . .

Then I remembered - someone had posted that very list HERE with a link to FR. So I go ever to FR and sure enough, there was the list. In the exact order as the one the freeper had posted to me. But HIS link wasn't FR, it was some other campaign list. And of course, the list of Dems was not there. So I called him on it and he tried to post this link and told me to look for the Dem names there. I told him to do his own homework AND I reported him to the mods on that board for faking the links.

I think he got kicked off - he hasn't been back since.

:rofl:

[stop the bleeding]

35. Both you and LSK are on top of things - BTW Larissa A is on AAR tonight

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen

Click on listen live

I think she comes on at approx 8pm EST

[stop the bleeding]

8. This does not prove anything about my question - go back to original

thread and read the whole thing.

The part I am trying to prove is in red - the second part of the title thread that I was referring to.

I have had 4-5 responses on this and everyone is missing the point.

Please help.

[Jackpine Radical]

25. I'm not missing the point. I just don't have the answer, and

am as interested as you in getting that answer. In the meantime, I was responding to somebody trying to imply that the Dems are dirty on this one.

[Catrina]

30. I haven't come across anything that Abramoff himself said

about not giving money to Democrats, but maybe the poster was thinking of the 'K Street Project', thought up by Tom Delay to ensure that Democrats would be cut off from money, and that K Street itself would be populated only by Republicans and their sympathizers. He was more than successful, although the means he used to achieve this end, are questionable.

This 'project' while appearing to be successful, may now be a huge thorn in the side of those trying to pin any of the corruption now being uncovered regarding Top Republican Lobbyist, Abramoff, on Democrats!! Even if they wanted it, it seems Democrats would have had a hard time getting their hands on any significant money in DC while Tom Delay had anything to do with it.

Iow, Abramoff could not, would not, nor would he have survived on Delay's K Street, had he even though of channelling money towards any Democrat. No, he was the golden boy of Republican lobbyists as imagined by Tom Delay. This scandal is all theirs. Funny how, what they were once so proud of, has turned around and hit them in the face! The irony is that this project has finally worked out very well for Democrats!! Poor Tom, I wonder if he sees the supreme irony of all this yet, or is he still too much in shock?


Something Stinks In America
by FIP (reposted) Thursday, Oct. 06, 2005 at 3:18 PM

The K Street Project is little known outside the Washington beltway and its effectiveness as a political stratagem is only possible because of the unique importance of campaign finance to American politics. DeLay, together with Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum and some conservative activists, notably the ubiquitous Grover Norquist who runs the anti-state, anti-tax lobby group 'Americans for Tax Reform', conceived the notion 10 years ago that they should use the Republican majority in the House as a lever to ensure that the lobbyists, law firms and trade associations that inhabit Washington's K Street, heart of the industry, should only employ Republicans or sympathisers. To be a Democrat was to bear the mark of Cain; K Street was to be a Democrat-free zone.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/10/1772955.php#1772956

Sorry not to have a quote from Abramoff, but it is conceivable that one exists, considering the reality of the situation ~

[Justice Is Comin]

9. I don't think that

has been sorted out into neat piles yet. At least not clearly defined by the FBI for the public. The dirty lawmakers know who they are though and hence the panic.

Most of our troops got it from his clients, you can bet on it and nothing to sweat.

[stop the bleeding]

13. aarrrrggghhhh! - you guys are killing me - so far only post#7 seems to

get what I am asking.

Please help.

Thank you in advance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Ok I read the whole thing

And you are right, it doesn't say anything about not giving money to Dems. But it also doesn't say he DID give money to Dems. It says he gave to Repukes, but the word 'Democrat' isn't even mentioned.

[stop the bleeding]

19. Exactly! - According to author of the other thread A'moff did say this

I would very very very much like to use this as a source in debates if it can be verified.

If you look at my posts/responses to the author in their thread they seem to have left for the evening or got tired of me wanting them to source this. I think they think that I was being a jerk, but if they only realized that all I wanted is this statement proved.

2 things about a statement like that.

1. someone like Rawstory or K.O. would have shown us by now. &
2. I highly doubt that the prosecution would let him make statements like that because of future proceedings with the case.

Thanks for your help on this and BTW if you can find that Abramoff did make this statement out in the regular MSM please PM or better yet start a thread with it.

Cheers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Yes I am looking too

If I find it, I will PM you.

[stop the bleeding]

24. cool and thank you - I also saw the graphic down below - WOW

I don't think I have seen that one before and it is probably one of the most detailed that I have seen yet.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. I got it from the liberal Wash Post

:)

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Interesting graphic (still not what you want though):

[Justice Is Comin]

20. Whoever the poster was

that has got you struggling with this my friend I believe is hypothesizing. Abramoff has not made any statements directly or indirectly. All we know is the donor list.

Prior to K street, a little more money was floating to democrats also.

[LSK]

26. i heard something about Abramoff wanting to destroy democrats on AAR

Either Malloy or Randi's show.

[stop the bleeding]

31. Yeah I think that it goes back to some statements he made in the 80's

BTW Larissa A. is on AAR/ Laura Flanders tonight at approx 8pm EST

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen

Click on listen live

[skids]

34. Pitt blogged it here...

"It is not our job to seek peaceful coexistence with the Left. Our job is to remove them from power permanently."

- Jack A. Abramoff

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/010506Z.shtml

Though if this is what the OP's OP was referring to than it's a sloppy attribution to make.

[stop the bleeding]

37. Thank you and leave it to Pitt and Truthout to set things straight

BTW Larissa A from Rawstory is on AAR tonight at 8pm EST

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen

Click on listen live

[stop the bleeding]

38. so the answer is no this can not be proved - thanks to everyone n/t