for a white man's execution, where are those screaming for his head?

[ulysses]

:shrug:

[MercutioATC]

1. They're executing a white man? Any white man in particular?

[benburch]

2. Why should those people scream?

There is no chance of clemency here. They already have what they want.

[msongs]

3. "...screaming for his head?" - care to tell us what you really mean nt

[ulysses]

4. just wondering where all the bloodlust went. n/t

[MercutioATC]

5. Is this a Tookie reference?

[ulysses]

6. sort of. n/t

[MercutioATC]

18. I was kinda involved in that discussion....

I wasn't "screaming for his head", but I certainly made it clear that I didn't consider him to be anybody worthy of clemency. My posts weren't generated by his execution, they were generated by all of the DU posts "screaming" for his clemency.

That's the reason I'M not "screaming for his head". I haven't seen anybody asking for this white guy (whomever he is) to be granted clemency. I'd imagine there are a lot of people here who would say the same thing. Our posts had nothing to do with demanding Tookie's execution, they were a response to those that painted him as some sort of hero.

[ulysses]

20. ok, here's one.

Clarence Ray Allen should be granted clemency - not because of his "worth", but because the state should not be in the business of killing citizens. The death penalty is wrong.

Our posts had nothing to do with demanding Tookie's execution

Perhaps you missed the posts that referenced "taking out the trash".

[MercutioATC]

24. Were threads with that theme started, though? I didn't see them.

You asked why people here weren't screaming for a white man's head. I'm saying that many of those that you might say "screamed for Tookie's head" didn't do so on their own...they posted their views in response to the "Save Tookie" threads.

I haven't seen any threads about this new (white) man's execution, nor have I seen any details of his case. THAT'S why I'm not posting about him. I'd imagine that's why a lot of posters are not replying to the "Save (random white guy)" threads.....there ARE none.

[ulysses]

28. but the folks I talked to on the other side of the issue

during the leadup to Williams' execution were simply *for the death penalty*, not reacting to "save Tookie" posts. Several were all but orgasmic.

[MercutioATC]

31. I only saw 3 or 4 of those....most seemed to be like me.

I'm undecided on the death penalty but if there was a reason to grant clemency, Tookie certainly wasn't it. My issue remains unresolved, but I'm not losing any sleep over Tookie's death.

I won't get excited about it, but I'm certainly not upset about it (beyond my usual death penalty reservations).

[hiaasenrocks]

21. I was heavily involved on those threads. And it was in

response to the two main DUers (SapphireBlue and nofurylike) who created all the "Save Tookie" posts. I was aware of the upcoming exectution but never would have posted about it, had it not been for all of the misinformation promoted by those two members and a few others on this board.

[ulysses]

may we assume

that you're readying the popcorn for the upcoming event as well?

[hiaasenrocks]

25. Sure, you may assume that.

That is, if you're in the habit of totally misrepresenting a person's position.

Have at it. :hi:

[ulysses]

26. thanks, I was curious.

:)

[hiaasenrocks]

29. MercutioATC's posts are spot-on.

No one has been posting about this person you've brought up tonight. No "Save (white guy)" threads. Nothing at all. I think that speaks to the fact that the pro-DP posts during Tookiemania were responses, not thread-starters.

[ulysses]

34. some folks just seemed to get such enjoyment

from the deed when it happened, I was just curious. Seems strange to me to have enjoyed it so much simply because some folks believe the DP is wrong.

[hiaasenrocks]

37. I don't recall any 'enjoyment' posts.

But if you say they exist, I'll take your word for it.

That certainly wasn't my intention. I wanted to see justice served, for the victims and their families, and for the sake of the system itself. But we could go back and forth on that one forever...and I won't.

[MercutioATC]

27. Naw, I'm unintentionally popping my own batch...

This Abramoff stuff gets people PISSED!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2350299

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x82569

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2353650

...and the list goes on.

:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. So this white guy doesn't deserve to go out with a lot of noise too?

[MercutioATC]

36. I haven't seen any noise to respond to.

What white guy are we talking about?

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. My point exactly

[MercutioATC]

40. Well, without anybody clamoring that this white guy was some sort of hero.

I wouldn't expect many people here to be "gloating" over his death....

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Well they sure gloated over Tookie's death

[MercutioATC]

42. Two points:

1) Most of the posts in favor of executing Tookie were in response to posts here supporting his clemency. There haven't been any calls for clemency here for this white guy (who's specifics I STILL don't know).

2) The media made the Tookie story a big issue, so a lot more people had some familiarity with the case. That hasn't happened this time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. There have been several threads about this guy

[MercutioATC]

44. I must've missed them.

Regardless, I think we'd agree that Tookie got much more ink.

[hiaasenrocks]

8. Same place the "Save _______" posts went. n/t

[dsc]

7. In fairness we weren't treated to revisionist history

and odes to the white man in several threads. In should be noted that NC has executed two people since Tookie has been executed with nary a word on this board. I think one was black the other white.

[ulysses]

11. iirc, the salivating over Williams' impending death

preceded the talk about his reformation.

[dsc]

17. Maybe it did but I doubt it

I am against the DP in all cases but frankly I was sick to death of hearing about Tookies great works given the fact he helped found an organization that is responsible for more deaths among poor blacks than virtually any other. Add to it his refusal to either take responsibility for his crimes or help break up the gang he helped create, and he was close to a singularly bad example of going against the DP. Tookie had great PR people and thus got a huge amount of attention while other more meritorious cases die in near anonyminity.

[ulysses]

19. fair enough

but to your mind did that justify DUers creaming their pants in anticipation of the execution? You saw the same threads I did.

[dsc]

22. admittedly the anti Tookie people went too far as well

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. LOL you are so bad

Ate your Wheaties this morning, eh?

[ulysses]

13. something like that.

:D

[Jack_DeLeon]

10. Good...

I have no problem with his execution.

Althought I have no idea who you are talking about?

[laureloak]

12. You should look into the Coleman case in Va.

Executed white man. Convicted on circumstantial evidence and .09% DNA match. Now in the news because new methods of DNA testing are going to be used to retest the evidence. If Coleman's innocence is proven it will make history as the first time DNA proved and innocent man was executed.

[ulysses]

14. I've read about that.

Interested to see if he's exonerated, and what the justification will then be for the DP.

[Connie_Corleone]

15. I don't see a bunch of threads begging for his life to be spared either.

[ulysses]

16. so it has been mentioned. n/t

[H2O Man]

23. Nominated.

Good post.

[RagingInMiami]

30. Do you really believe it was a black and white issue with Tookie?

Nobody seems to raise a fuss about all the other black men that get executed. Perhaps it was the fact that Tookie spent a good part of his prison life trying to steer kids from the gang life.

[ulysses]

33. I suspect it might have been for some.

Not on the whole, though.

[NaturalHigh]

46. Not a black and white issue.

The "Tookie" movement was more of a jumping-on-the-celebrity-bandwagon situation. It was fashionable to proclaim "Tookie's" redemption and/or innocence.

[hiaasenrocks]

35. Some info on this case (for those, like me, who had no idea about it)

Clarence Ray Allen (b. January 16, 1930, in Blair, Oklahoma) is a death row inmate at the San Quentin State Prison, California. Allen is slated to be executed on January 17, 2006, and would be one of the oldest and most disabled inmates to be executed in the USA since the death penalty was restored in 1977. Allen is of Choctaw heritage.

He was sentenced to life in prison for commissioning the murder of his son's girlfriend in 1974. Then, in 1980, he was convicted to death for ordering the murders of eight witnesses of the first murder from his cell. While killing the first of these targets, his hit man also killed two unconnected teenagers on the scene.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Ray_Allen

[RagingInMiami]

39. Well maybe if he would have written children's books

[Obamanaut]

45. Is this guy a 'white guy', or a native american (choctaw) as listed

in other threads? They're not the same, are they?