Serious Q. on whether sex offenders gravitate to today's Repug. party.

[Inland]

Okay, sociologists and psych majors.

I have a serious thought of why this incredible list of child molesters and sex criminals in/from the republican party.

Not to say it's merely a matter of degree, but don't all republicans live with an enormous gulf between their public and political stands on morality and their actual practices?

If you were a person with a sexual life or drive that you wanted to keep private at all costs, doesn't it make a sort of sense you gravitate to the party where everyone understood that your public face is entirely different from the acts you take in private and works hard to keep the difference in place, just for politics? Isn't that a world where you could find some comfort, a world where everyone knows everyone else is pretending and doesn't ask too many questions past party ID, where everyone accepts hypocrisy as necessary?

I'm not saying that republicans would approve of a fifty plus man sending sexual messages to seduce a 14 year old girl. I'm saying that the republicans don't live in a fact based world, even when appraising each other or themselves. Where better for someone with a secret life to go? Where better than a place where nobody asks what you are like as opposed to what you are for or what image you are trying to project?

Where else would you go but the party where pretending a personality is an accepted part of the game?

[Mist]

1. I think that "image" and hypocrisy are part of it, but sexual predators

are power freaks, and power freaks certainly seem to gravitate to the Rethuglican party. I think they don't see anyone different from themselves (mainly rich white guys) as real people, so it's OK to do what they want to those who aren't really people, but are objects.

[Inland]

3. People as objects.

I suppose. But all politics is power, and power is an aphrodisiac, so I'm not surprised to see sex and politics mix. But we see crimes, and all in one party.

[electropop]

11. I think your theory is closer to the truth.

It is about power-lust and thinking of people as objects to be used.

[DURHAM D]

2. Before certain religions became political they hid behind the

pulpit and youth ministry of the church. Now the church has simply extended its sermonizing and mission into the greater culture.

[SharonAnn]

4. More like this. One who does this, also thinks like a Repug.

Perhaps even is self-loathing, so needs to be outspoken about "virtues and morality".

Kind of like how some closet homosexuals loudly condemn homosexuality.

Also, Dementia, which has "black & white" thinking as part of its pattern, as well as simplistic thinking, seems to have a relationship to the extreme RW Republican way of thinking.

No kidding. I've noticed this with a couple of my relatives. As they aged, they got very RW in their thinking and then were diagnosed with dementia. I think the development of RW thinking was a symptom of developing dementia.

Just my 2 cents.

[NYC]

30. Are you saying that simplistic thinking

comes with dementia? I hadn't thought about it.

[slackmaster]

5. Registered sex offenders here are concentrated in the "blue" parts of town

I think there are two major factors in play:

1. They tend to be poor because they can't get decent jobs, and

2. Rich ones blow off the registration requirement.

[FlaGranny]

83. You forgot one important reason -

the rich ones don't get caught as often - more able to hide their deeds and more able to come up with big bucks for payoffs and for lawyers.

[cali]

6. The premises in your screed are absurd.

"Not to say it's merely a matter of degree, but don't all republicans live with an enormous gulf between their public and political stands on morality and their actual practices?"

Uh, no, not all republicans live with an enormous gulf between their public and political stands and their actual practices. There are all types of republicans.

"I'm not saying that republicans would approve of a fifty plus man sending sexual messages to seduce a 14 year old girl."

Gee, that's kind of you. I'd be willing to wager that most republicans, like most dems, most libertarians, most greens and most independents abhor men who prey on children.

"I'm saying that the republicans don't live in a fact based world, even when appraising each other or themselves."

Got any evidence for that absurd claim?

I find myself in the odd position of defending repubs, but this sort of bullshit deserves to be condemned.

[Inland]

12. And yet, I don't see the arm-long list of dem sex offenders.

So it's evasive to say there are "all types of republicans." There are, but there's a certain dispicable segment that are, er, overrepresented in the republican party. That having been established, it's a nonsequitur to add that there are all types of republicans. It's the prevalence of a particular type that interests me. You don't explain it or deny it.

As to other premises: The general bent of hypocrisy in the republican party is easily enough proven. The president in the flight uniform struck us as incongruous. The 101st keyboardist brigade is the vast majority of republicans. And then there's the private life. They are against homosexuality while hiring or being homosexuals, they are so pro marriage that they have had three of them, seriatim, they are for huge drug penalities while having been illegal drug abusers. The republicans know the descrepancy between public stands and private lives better than anyone. Where have YOU been?

The entire Bush premise is based on deception.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Inland
I just wonder if that doesn't make people with secret sex lives gravitate there.

By the bye, the fact based world claim? That's from a quote of a neocon admin member that stated that THE PROBLEM of anti Bush people is that they live in a fact based world. Ask around.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=319751

I knew about pro-lifers Henry Hyde's and Bob Barr's abortion scandals, and a few others...but I had no idea that there were THIS many Republican scandals.

Here's a small sampling of what's available at the link below:

Merrill Robert Barter, Republican County Commissioner, pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy. Booth Bay Register Article

Robert Bauman, Republican congressman and anti-gay activist, was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar. Source: Washington Blade

Parker J. Bena, Republican activist and Bush Elector, pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography (including children as young as 3 years old) on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000. Source

Louis Beres, chairman of the Christian Coalition of Oregon. 3 of his family members accuse him of molesting them when they were pre-teens. Editor and Publisher article

Howard L. Brooks, Republican legislative aide and advisor to a California assemblyman, was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography. Sacramento Bee article

John Bolton Bush's appointee ambassador to United Nations, corroborated allegations that Mr. Bolton’s first wife, Christina Bolton, was forced to engage in group sex have not been refuted by the State Department. Raw Story Article

Mike Bowers Former State Attorney General, prosecuted the famous Bowers vs. Hardwick case, based on Georgia anti-sodomy laws. Admitted to a 10-year adulterous affair Slate article

Pat Buchanan predidential candidate, media talking-head. His campaign refused to confirm or deny whether Pat has had chlamydia or any other venereal diseases.

Andrew Buhr, Republican politician, former committeeman for Hadley Township Missouri, was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy. Source

Ted Bundy campaigned for the Republican Party. Infamous serial rapist who murdered 16 women. Source: BBC

Jim Bunn Congressman of Oregon: With his success due in great part to support from the Christian Coalition, Bunn won his congressional seat, then immediately ditched his wife (and mother of his five children), married a staffer, and put his new wife on the state payroll for the unheard-of salary of $97,500. Salon.com article

John Allen Burt, Republican anti-abortion activist, convicted of sexually molesting a 15 year old girl at the home for troubled girls that he ran. Source: Pensacola News Journal

Dan Burton, Republican Congressman who, while married, fathered a child by another woman. Salon.com Article

George W. Bush, Republican president, accused in a criminal complaint and lawsuit of raping Margie Schoedinger, who was later suicided. Accused by Tammy Phillips, a former stripper quoted in the National Enquirer in 2000 saying she had an affair with Bush that had ended in 1999.

John Butler, Republican activist, was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

Ken Calvert, Congressman (R-Ca), champion of the Christian Coalition and its "family values." Sued as an alimony deadbeat by his ex-wife. Said "We can't forgive what occurred between the President and Lewinsky." In 1993 he was caught by police receiving oral sex from a prostitute and attempted to flee the scene.

Charles Canady, Congressman (R-Florida), Judiciary Committee member. Lied to his constituents about his adulterous affair with Sharon Becker, which caused her divorce.

Helen Chenoweth, Congresswoman (R-Id.). Admitted to a six-year adulterous affair with a married associate. In 1995, Chenoweth had denied the affair when asked about it by The Spokane Spokesman-Review, but now she claims a pardon from a higher authority: "I've asked for God's forgiveness, and I've received it," she revealed.

Keola Childs, Republican County Councilman, pleaded guilty to sexual assault in the first degree for molesting a male child.Honolulu Star-Bulletin Article

[snowbear]

53. How about that wacked out Mayor from Tacoma?

Should be on that list.. I forgot what his name was.

[Inland]

60. You mean Spokane?

It's an old list, anyway.

[Betsy Ross]

7. Bad assumption

Although the numbers may be greater among Repukes, the assumption would lead to a false security. From experience, I know that Dems can be abusers too.

[Inland]

15. "Can be" vs. enormous list.

I'm not interested in ruling out dems. But it's a long list of republican sex offenders.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/14/93826/8594

[PublicWrath]

8. Yes, I do.

Their mission, as I read it, is to turn the clock back. I'm not saying all repubs are fundies, nor that all fundies support sexual abuse or rape, but I do think the "traditional family values" they espouse are based on a combination of a 1950's sitcom (you, mommy does the cooking in high heels and pearls) and a literalist interpretation of biblical scripture promoting father-right and women and children as possessions.

The real sinner as far as many fundie religious types are concerned, is not the abuser, but the victim who talks about the abuse.

[KittyWampus]

79. Why put so much emphasis on forcing "traditional" values on others?

IMO, it's linked to being extremely bereft of said values internally.

Example, people who lack an internal faith in God, go to ever more extreme measures trying to make the outside world fill the void. Prayer and Bible classes in school, Ten Commandments in Courthouse.

But even as they do more and more to make the world into what they consider more "Spiritual" their internal faith becomes weaker and weaker. Thus, they keep taking more extreme meausres trying to make others fit into a mold.

The Fundies suffer from a complete lack of Faith.
Republicans, by and large, suffer a complete lack of Humanity, having no sense of Community or Common Good.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. Not Only No, But I Find The Premise Absurd.

An issue like that has nothing to do with politics and is illogical to even surmise.

[Inland]

14. Which premise is that? nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Gee, Maybe The Premise Asked In The OP? Ya Think? Possibly?

You asked a question. I responded with my straightforward answer.

[Inland]

36. What was the "premise asked in the OP?" Now you're getting confusing

What do you want do know?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

49. Jesus Christ You're The Goddamn Poster And You're Questioning What You

asked?

Here's a clue. You're post asks if sex offenders gravitate towards today's repub party. I answered replied with my damn answer. Not a damn thing confusing about it.

[Inland]

50. You were confusingly speaking of "a premise asked".

One doesn't ask a premise, and one doesn't disagree with a question, and I was trying to help you explain yourself in the possibility that there's something besides hostility in there somewhere. But you seem to want to make me regret that, and I do.

Buh bye.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. Oh Whatever Man.

It was incredibly clear what I meant in my original post. The premise is that sex offenders could be related to party affiliation. The opinion was that the premise is absurd. Buh bye to you too.

[Inland]

56. prem·ise

A proposition upon which an argument is based or from which a conclusion is drawn.
Logic.
One of the propositions in a deductive argument.
Either the major or the minor proposition of a syllogism, from which the conclusion is drawn.


hos·til·i·ty (hŏ-stĭl'ĭ-tē)
n., pl. -ties.
The state of being hostile; antagonism or enmity. See synonyms at enmity.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. Now Use Them In A Sentence:

"The OP used hostility in response to a poster disagreeing with the premise he put forth in his thread".

There, how's that? LOL

I found the premise you put forth to be faulty and absurd, as something as serious as being a sex offender should not be undermined for sake of politics and party affiliation. Not my problem you didn't like what I have to say.

And once you say bye, it generally is proceeded by actually going away, no?

[Inland]

58. I think that's fine. Now, if you had used it correctly in the first place

instead of writing the "premise asked in the OP", and resisted getting all huffy because I asked for clarification, I might actually give enough of a shit to ask you again to clarify the premise you are referring to, and maybe even why you find it faulty. But that's water under the bridge. Nobody really cares if there's something besides hostility going on.

And by the way, good bye is supposed to be followed by YOU going away, not with showing off your new vocabulary.

[H2O Man]

10. Sex offenders

are found in all socio-economic classes. There are no serious indicators that would suggest that the republican party has a higher percentage than any other group of people.

[Inland]

16. Besides an incredibly long list, there's no proof at all.

And the lack of a similar one for democratic office holders and party members.

[H2O Man]

You are right on one thing.

You have no proof at all.

[Inland]

18. I said I had no proof at all? Ummmm.. Sure. Whatever. nt

[Marie26]

62. I'm sure someone

could compile one, if they wanted to.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

66. I can't find one...

I googled "Democratic Sex crime" earlier today, and most of the hits came back as "so-and-so (D) submitted an amendment today..." while googling "Republican sex crime" I came up with hits that listed (R)'s convicted or arrested for said crimes... I still haven't been able to find a dem list.

This was a serious inquiry, by the way. I just couldn't find a list for Dems like there is for Repugs. :shrug:

[Marie26]

67. I believe you

But I think that might say something about the anger among Dems. as anything else. We've got lists of Republican suspicious deaths, crimes, racist activities etc. cause Dems. are mad enough to do it. Also, the Internet is pretty liberal overall - you'll find a lot more on "impeach Bush" than "support Bush", simply because liberals are more active. I just don't believe that Democrats aren't ever involved in these types of crimes. It may be that there are more Republicans. But to me, it cheapens the seriousness & trauma of these crimes to reduce it to a political issue. Just IMO.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

68. I've considered that...

The internet is a haven for us libruls after all :)

The biggest thing for me is, if there are Dems convicted of these crimes, why doesn't FR have a list? or any of the r-wing bloggers? I mean, we discuss this at least once a month (from what I've seen) yet there is no list from the other side that tries to dispute it. That in itself makes this 'liberal' wonder... :shrug:

[Marie26]

77. Yeah, that in itself is telling

They certainly use anything else to try to destroy Dems. Maybe it's just that the Rep. mantra from the leadership isn't focusing on that, so they don't either. The Rep. meme now seems more about how "treasonous & anti-religious" Dems are. Maybe they feel less comfortable even bringing up the topic. I don't know.

[Inland]

69. Oh, please, please come back to reality.

You think that republicans don't have the interest or the time or the energy for actual democratic scandals of any kind, when in real life they manufacture scandals out of the trivial or nonexistent?

In the republican world, professors' lectures and a flag at a high school become the top story of the day. They spend time on cable on the color of cupcake frosting as proof of a war on christmas. Tom Delay resigns, and goes on Hannity and after a quick acknowledgment that he resigned for The Good Of The Country, move on to the real issue, Cynthia McKinney. Laura Bush repeated just this week the lie about vandalism at the White House by the Clinton Administration. But since all those accusations are trivial, nobody can say it cheapens anything serious, right? How much better is it that we don't cheapen crimes by paying attention to them and elevate cupcake frosting?

But of course, republicans feel free to cheapen themselves to "notice" crimes that never happened. The list of suspicious deaths close to Clinton got a Falwell videotape miniseries you could order right from his ministry. Barney Frank gets censured by the House for having a guest that turns out to be a prostitute. Hillary killed Vince Foster and Bill killed Ron Brown. Anyone remember the impeachment bit? Mena Airport. Rapes.

Here's reality.

After two or three high profile sex crimes by republicans, someone notices a pattern and does the research and compiles a list. A pattern. Research. List. Nothing nefarious about it.

[Marie26]

70. Reality

Yes, I'm so deluded. A Democrat notices a pattern & compiles a list. (Or you think a Republican would do this?) Of course it's politics. Republicans are even worse at taking isolated incidents to try to destroy their opponents. Where am I disputing that? Jeez. The Republicans are in power right now, so don't bother w/the lists of suspicious deaths as much. During the Clinton era, they sure knocked themselves out w/the research, though. Are people seriously implying that a Democrat can't be a sex offender? No - and that's all I was saying. This is a crime, & like any other, it'll cross political & socioeconomic lines.

[immoderate]

19. While that is true H2O Man...

People who gravitate toward a more authoritarian point of view, fundies and law and order types, are more likely to be seen as hypocrites and their transgressions will be more liable to draw attention. They are also more likely to feel that the rules don't apply to them.

On edit: In my school days it was called reaction formation.


--IMM

[Inland]

22. Which was called "reaction formation"? nt

[immoderate]

34. As I remember it...

It is adopting a posture that is at opposition to one's tendencies. Roy Cohn would be an example.

--IMM

[PublicWrath]

20. But aren't fundies more likely to be repubs?

Fundies have an extremely high rate of familial child sexual abuse.

[Texasgal]

13. I'm sorry Inland...

But your post is silly! This is why Republicans think we are all bat-shit crazy!!

*sigh*

[Inland]

24. What's so silly about it?

I'd be glad for a republican to argue with me about it. Something has to explain the existence of all these republicans and their sex crimes, rather than brushing them off.

[PublicWrath]

25. Here you go:

From Sexual Abuse in Christian Homes and Churches, by Carolyn Holderread Heggen, Herald Press, Scotdale, PA, 1993 p. 73:

"A disturbing fact continues to surface in sex abuse research. The first best predictor of abuse is alcohol or drug addiction in the father. But the second best predictor is conservative religiosity, accompanied by parental belief in traditional male-female roles. This means that if you want to know which children are most likely to be sexually abused by their father, the second most significant clue is whether or not the parents belong to a conservative religious group with traditional role beliefs and rigid sexual attitudes. (Brown and Bohn, 1989; Finkelhor, 1986; Fortune, 1983; Goldstein et al, 1973; Van Leeuwen, 1990). (emphasis in original)

[Inland]

27. What's your point? nt

[PublicWrath]

31. It's one explanation (one I like) of why their are so many

molestors amoung repubs. Extremely conservative religious values. 3,000 year old gender roles. Etc.

Do you think this could be part of the problem?

[Texasgal]

29. How about you stop using the republican label ...

Try replacing that word with BLACK, Or HISPANIC, Or Poor... see what you come up with.

[Inland]

32. Okay, let's try it.

"Serious Q. on whether sex offenders gravitate to (becoming Black)."

Doesn't quite work, does it? That doesn't seem like a serious Q at all, simply because a sex offender doesn't choose his or her own race like they choose their own party.

[Texasgal]

54. Try googling that and see what you come up with...

Fuck this is ridiculous!

[Inland]

59. Sure, why not.

I'll do the research and figure out both your point and my response. I'll get back to you.

[radwriter0555]

17. The GOP is the party of criminals, perverts, predators and thieves... It's

not hard to understand... it's about being insecure, yet feeling privileged... predatory yet entitled.

[Texasgal]

21. I'm sorry Rad...

But that's just bullshit, My parents are both life-long Republicans who voted for Bush and regret it now. They are not "insecure" they are not "privileged" nor do they act "entitled" to anything.

There are plenty Republicans that are not outright "Neo-cons".

This broad brush stuff gets old... :(

[Roaming]

23. I think any attempt to try to politicize this is ridiculous. /nt

[Inland]

26. *sigh* Fine. We'll just drop the entire sex crimes by politicians thing

Wouldn't want to have THAT become an political issue.

[BlooInBloo]

39. Doesn't it even so much as APPEAR that we hear a LOT MORE about...

... republican sex abusers (of all sorts) than Democrats?

Doesn't it SEEM that way even a lil?

[TheBaldyMan]

28. Sadly, sexual abuse is not limited to class, race, occupation

religion, age or any number of boundaries.

Gender does play a part, women are much less likely to sexual abusers.

Media attention does increase the perception of sex offenders being segregated to certain cultural groups. The countless redneck jokes about them being incestuous or indulging in bestiality is one way that popular imagination attaches certain groups to certain acts.

The reality is sobering. Most victims of sexual abuse are abused by family members or close associates of the family.

There is no corrolation between income and the prevalence of abuse. Statistically. a consultant plastic surgeon is as likely to abuse as a postman.

Abusers have a higher likelihood to have been abused themselves.

There are also certain positions of responsibility that abusers attempt to occupy, especially positions of authority that allow access to children or other vulnerable groups.

edited for typos:

[BlooInBloo]

37. He didn't ask if it was limited to a group, confined, or anything else...

... He asked about a TENDENCY - if there was a LIKELIHOOD - for abusers to GRAVITATE....

Seems like people in this thread don't seem to want to acknowledge the ACTUAL question asked, and instead prefer to deal with a strawman question that was NEVER asked.

[Inland]

41. That's right.

I didn't say that republicans are.

Or that republican party causes.

Or that even dems aren't.

I noted the long list of republican sex criminals, implicitly noting that there isn't a similar list for dems, and asked if they chose the republicans. The only thing I accused most republicans of being is easy with hypocrisy and pretending, which is also, I think, pretty much within the pale of accepable opinion.

[TheBaldyMan]

44. please read the whole of my post, I did mention that aspect

I am expanding the debate to add a wider perspective to the subject. A subject that is, in my view at least, far too convoluted to be reduced to the form of 'Please tick the boxes that apply'.

One of the reasons I usually refrain from posting on this subject is simply because it is not a black and white issue but any attempt to put a considered response is viewed as support for paedophiles, a charge that could not be further from the truth.

If you want a simple answer from me on this subject I am afraid I can't supply one.

[BlooInBloo]

45. Your 1st subject title contains a false asssumption....

... and sets up a strawman question that was NOT asked.

Plain and simple.

If you didn't want to address the OP, then why did you PURPORT to address him by posting an "answer" in the thread s/he started?

[TheBaldyMan]

46. Which straw man question is this? I did address the OP

Read the OP again then read my post again, please. I answered the question perhaps I didn't spell it out in ten-foot high letters but it's in there.

[enid602]

35. self loathing

Because it's no fun to do something truly antisocial unless you associate yourself with a group that constantly reminds you that what you're doing is illegal, punishable and immoral. Plus, you can reason to yourself that you couldn't be too bad if you're one of them. Plus, you can atone for your sins by joining the Republican Party, because they're against people like you. I think similar motivations exist for gay and African-American GOP members.

[rniel]

38. Well one thing I do know

Republicans like to dominate people weaker than then that don't have any power to fight back or to even speak up against it. So is it a surprise child rape would be right up their alley.

[file83]

40. Yes - and there isn't much difference between what happened at

that child camp and Abu-Guhraib. The weak being tortured and abused by the strong.

[cali]

42. What a stupid generalization.

But are there any other kind? Demonizing an entire group of people because of their political affiliation is just fucked up. Yes, the republican leadership is unsavory. The neocon movement has been disasterous for our foreign policy, and by extension our domestic affairs. Fundamentalist right wingers are bad for public policy and science, but none of those specifics justifies the demonization of all republicans. Most of my in-laws are republicans. A nicer, kinder, more generous and loving group of people it would be hard to find. I know some democrats whose politics are a lot more in synch with mine who are just not very nice people. This typecasting is bullshit.

[BlooInBloo]

43. We now criticize QUESTIONS based on family membership?

I gotta admit, it SEEMS to my eyes that there are a LOT more republican abusers on the news than Democratic. I'd be interested to know if it's JUST perception, or if there's something to it...

otoh, maybe certain lines of questioning are off limits because they involve groups to which members of your family belong.

You do recognize a MASSIVE difference between:

(a) Abusers tend to be republicans

and

(b) republicans tend to be abusers

don't you?

Do you realize the ONLY slight to your familiy could come from someone investigating (b)?

Do you realize the OP said NOTHING about (b)?

Do you realize the OP asked ONLY about (a)?

Sheesh.

[marions ghost]

74. Just as one has to defend

good people, it is necessary to analyze the nature of bad people. Don't you think it might be possible that there is a trend worth discussing here, no matter how many times you may have to make the point that the negative image should not be applied to all?

Republicans have committed extreme abuses. Real crimes against humanity. Do you expect people not to discuss the psychology of such abusers? Unless your generous and loving relatives are actively opposed to the current administration they are ignorant or deliberately looking the other way. (That goes for Liberals or Dems as well who stick their heads in the sand). I think everyone understands that there are always supporters of crimes who are not directly involved. Dupes, or pawns in the game.

It's hard to face, but we have to look at the question of just what type of people are running this country. The time has come to ask these questions.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. I think it's a symptom of their absolutist views

If premarital sex, homosexuality, pornography, seeing Janet Jackson's booby and masturbating are all sins, then you might as well go for broke; troll for kids on the internet, buy hookers in Thailand and rape some "ho's".

:mad:

[Jose Diablo]

48. Curious about the Moonies

It would be no secret that the republican party gets a big boost from the moonies. I'm not casting negative aspersions, but didn't the moonies have 'arranged marriages'. And wasn't there some stuff about minors being abused? Non-moonie parents wanting their adult kids and grandkids out and trying to separate the kids from the church. Allegations the church was a cult. That sort of stuff. Then the moonie big cheese went to jail for tax evasion.

I seem to recall something that hit the news radar, been about 15 years or so, then the news was quietly shut-down. Something about blackmail of politicians using minors recruited by this 'church'. It was right after big dawg got elected but Bu$h the elder was still in the WH. When it hit the news, It seemed like it had been going on since Reagan got in. It was about dealing with politicians by Reagan/Bu$h. Runaways were recruited and used in DC, and down in Texas. I don't remember the details. But nothing ever came of it, no trials.

[Mist]

51. Wikipedia has an entry on this, if this is what you're talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Coverup_Scandal

and just googling "Franklin scandal" takes you to a number of sites.

[Jose Diablo]

55. No, it wasn't the Franklin deal it was something else

I need to dig back into my notes and journals from the early 90's.

[Marie26]

61. Don't think so

There's Republicans, Democrats, rich, poor, different ages, races, professions. I don't know that you can put a label on any group that is "more likely" to have sex offenders, except, sadly, a profession that deals with children. Sometimes it seems like people have an image of the "typical" offender, w/o realizing that it could be a liberal, or a doctor, or a pillar of the community.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

63. Have you read much about the members of the old Nazi Party?

[seabeyond]

64. personally i think it is a universal law thing. what you call to attention

the strongest is what is in your life. the people yelling loudest for eveyone to behave. the homophobics yelling about gays taking over our world and hurting our children. the religious that yell for women to be submissive.

are in strong need of the woman that isnt submissive,..... have their own sexual perversions to feel guilty about, have the hardest time behaving

we are all sinners

from preschool in christian school this was the big taught, and immediately. we are all sinners. start brainwashing the babies that they are sinners,.... dont we then have to become sinners to make that statement true.

all a universal thing.

the louder repugs yell about what christians they are, the more evidence they give us in their failures as christians.

[leftofthedial]

65. it appears that criminals of all types

have gravitated to the repuke party

[marions ghost]

71. good point

predation is predation...abuse is abuse

In a political and business climate where exploitation & destruction of vulnerable groups is commonplace there are obvious parallels to the sordid underworld of sexual predation & victimization. I think most people would agree to the existence of this link.

The OP is not far-fetched at all in questioning what is becoming a statistically significant fact--that there are more conservatives brought up on sexual offenses than liberals. There is a certain mentality that goes along with predation and violence to others. It is not at all ridiculous to explore the question, especially now when we are seeing the mind-boggling abuse of the system by conservative Republicans at the highest levels. It's a fair question. Those who can't even bear to see the issue posed might ask themselves what they are protecting at the expense of victims of abuse.

It would be a thick-skinned investigator who would attempt a serious analysis of this question. Maybe it has already been done.

[Giant Robot]

78. I think the question is good but...

I do not know of any studies linking political ideology and sex offender status. It is a long way from presenting a list of 50 Republican sex offenders to saying that there is a statistically significant link between ideology and sexual predators. These are all high profile things, at least to us, so clearly they will stick out in our minds more. I think this would take more research to uncover whether the original premise is a good one or not. And actually it would not take that long to do a study on it; studies of this nature can be done quickly and fairly inexpensively (especially if grad students are involved :) ).

I can certainly understand the desire to discuss this. I certainly believe power, shame/guilt, and a rigid conservative belief structure play a part in molestation. And I can also see how many Republicans are really defined by those very traits. But that that does not mean one equals the other. This needs to be explored further, if it has not been done already.

[marions ghost]

80. right

I don't know of any studies on this question either. It's possible that it is just now being seen as a valid theory worthy of study. There is always a lot of resistance to exploring volatile social issues.

I think you'd have to break the question down into a number of variables. There may be purely psychological factors at work that really aren't so much about ideology as identification. Perhaps it might more clearly be approached if it were applied to the continuum of conservative to liberal, rather than a Repub vs Dem dichotomy. Yes, a comprehensive study is needed to support the speculation. But the list of 50 R offenders, etc. is certainly indication enough of a trend worth exploring.

[Giant Robot]

82. I don't know if it is a trend worth exploring based on a list

50 perps out of the hundreds of thousands of abuse cases is hardly a drop in the bucket. I am curious, but it is for probably more political reasons than to aid the understanding of sexual predators.

I honestly don't think it would take much to design a survey to measure this. It would have to be done under the guise of a general personality profile, and the interviewer should have no idea of what the purpose of this is, so a double blind kind of thing. In the course of getting data, you could certainly ask whether they were a Republican or Democrat, for whatever that label means. Then have some general personality type questions, a truth measure, and questions about political ideology mixed in there. I think a 1-5 scale of Strongly Disagree to Strongly Agree with statements that would reflect conservative beliefs, like "Men should be the primary breadwinners of the family." Of course it would be necessary to prove that what you assert truly measures conservative ideology. Seriously don't think it would be hard. Just would need people willing to interview, some willing participants, and some one with better statistical skills than me.

[MadisonProgressive]

72. It's well known that perverts are republicans and vice versa.

You don't want to hide out in plain site, with the "perverts" in the democratic party. The hippies, druggies, gays, baby-killers, etc. You want to blend in as a conservative businessman, a righteous Christian, and a responsible citizen.

It's all very simple psychology 101.

[Neil Lisst]

73. Definitely. Because SHAME and REPRESSION play a large role

in their deviant behaviors, and those two emotions are essential to the psyche of the hardcore Republican. Think of how all their arguments include some element like "if you don't support the president, you're hurting the troops." SHAME. Or there's some event that is used to disclaim their own lusts, like the Janet Jackson fiasco. REPRESSION.

[marions ghost]

75. From Wikipedia --"Shame"

Shame in society

Shame also generally considered one pillar of socialization in all societies.

Shame is enshrouded in legal precedent as a pillar of punishment and ostensible correction.

Shame has been linked to narcissism in the psychoanalytic literature. It is one of the most intense emotions. The individual experiencing shame may feel totally despicable, worthless and feel that there is no redemption.

According to the anthropologist Ruth Benedict, cultures may be classified by their emphasis of using either shame or guilt to regulate the social activities of their members. Some Asian cultures, for example China and Japan, are considered shame cultures. European and modern American cultures, as for example the United States, are considered guilt cultures. For example, traditional Japanese and Ancient Greek society are sometimes said to be "shame-based" rather than "guilt-based" in that the social consequences of "getting caught" are seen as more important than the individual feelings or experiences of the agent.

Shared opinions and expected behaviours that cause the feeling of shame (as well as an associated reproval) if violated by an individual are in any case proven to be very efficient in guiding behaviour in a group or society.

Shame is the favorite form of control used by those people who commit relational aggression also known (incorrectly) as female bullying. It is potent weapon in marriage, family, and church settings. It is also used in the workplace as a form of covert social control or aggression.

[Neil Lisst]

76. The essence of shame is "you are morally inferior if you don't do as me"

[FlaGranny]

81. I don't know, but

I think the main reason is power. Republicans like power. Even the poor ones are suckered in by the belief that one day they will be rich and powerful - if it just weren't for all those "liberals." Sex crimes are "power" crimes. Pedophiles, especially, do all they can to get in a position of power over children - priests, scout leaders, teachers. Also, I believe, there is a feeling of entitlement. This is something they accuse liberals of, but they are more guilty of it. They feel entitled to power, control, and keeping everything for themselves. There is little generosity, unless it is to make themselves look good to others. It is an entire selfish mindset.

Edit: That's a generalization and in no way means I think Republicans are all child molesters or even that there are more Republican child molesters, but the power thing is there nonetheless.