Why the Congressional Dems won't stand up.

[the other one]

It seems that the Dems won't take the fight to the administration and the GOP no matter how big the opening is, or how polls show the people to be against Bush. Here is my cynical explanation.

The Dems won't stand up for anything because they don't WANT to be seen as standing for anything.

If the GOP self-destructs, the Dems could very well win this fall by default. If they do, they will owe NOTHING to the voters and especially not to the volunteers that will work all summer to get them elected. They will be able to replace the right-wing crony gov't with their own crony govt. But more importantly, they will not have to tackle any issue which they view as politically divisive, e.g. providing national health care, or equal rights, or getting rid of intrusive govt. Everything the GOP has built will become the Democrats property, and they will get at least two years to use it before the voters come calling.

Republican-lite is a strategy, and they are full on board with it.

[Derailer]

1. Or maybe they're just corporate lackeys

who "cleverly" put a D after their name instead of that mean 'ol off-putting "R"?

[Greeby]

2. Hey, now, thats a tad broad brush

We need something to distinguish the House Dems in the Black/Progressive/Out Of Iraq Caucus (often intertwined) that are fighting every day and are always on the "nay" list. With these wussy Senate Democrats who hog all the TV cameras and vote yes to everything

[bowens43]

3. What are you talking about?

They have been standing up. What exactly is it you want them to do, stage an armed revolution or something? You do understand the limitations faced by the minority party , don't you?

[Derailer]

5. Being the minority party is an advantage for them

That way they can shit on our head and then be like "hey, what'd you expect we ARE the minority party after all!"

Oh, and as a bonus the implication is its our own fault since we didn't get out and vote for their sorry asses.

[sandnsea]

4. Libertarian - Authoritarian??

I see that in your sig line, is that what you are? Maybe the problem is that you're on the wrong board because you haven't figured out that Democrats aren't Libertarians. Or maybe you have figured it out, and think that trashing Dems will help your Libertarian cause.

[cali]

6. What tripe.

I'm so infernally sick of this kind of statement. There are plenty of dems standing up. Just because you don't hear about it, or because they don't use language inflammatory enough for your liking, doesn't mean that all dems are folding, or that they're complicit with the repukes. I just watched the dems on the House Judiciary questioning the AG, and they weren't in the least bit complicit or deferential. They went full throttle for answers to tough questions. That they didn't get satisfactory answers is hardly their fault.

[Derailer]

8. Yes it is their fault

You say asking for immflamtory language is going to far. Fuck that, I want immflamtory ACTION. And we've been getting haven't we? Too bad the only thing its immflamatory toward is the goddamn American public huh?

Democrats and Republicans, same circus different clowns

EDIT: in one sense you can't blame any individual democrat since if they won't suck corporate cock they can easily be replaced by somebody else who will. That doesn't mitigate the elected membership of the party as a whole though

Are there forces far greater than them that should be held responsible? Abso-fucking-lutely. But cleansing them from our minds is a good way to start since they are merely a sleight of hand to keep us occupied with pablum

[cali]

10. Wow.

It's been a while since I've read such an illiterate post. Why should anyone listen to someone who can't even spit out a coherent sentence? Even excusing your pathetic post of its spelling and poor grammar, it's impossible to find anything redemptive about it. No, repubs and dems are not interchangeable.

There are many times when the dems are deserving of harsh criticism, but to state that all dems are no better than repubs and that they're all sucking corporate cock is, to put it bluntly, bullshit.

[Derailer]

11. to state that all dems are no better than repubs and that they're all suck

Individually I don't see that it matters but as an entity they serve their purpose very well. That purpose being to keep us...mollified? You seem to have a greater vocabulary than I so let me know if you have a better word...its in the vein of complacent, apathetic, etc

[oasis]

16. The discipline and patience of Dem leadership is about to payoff,

bigtime. Let's allow the experienced drivers get us over the finish line. Better yet, sign up for the pit crew, work your way up, and you may get your chance at the wheel. ;-)

[Derailer]

19. My mother said I can be anything I wanna be

and I don't wanna be in the pit crew

Oh, you mean blindly clinging to irrational completely unfounded beliefs like that won't get me anywhere in life? Shit :(

[ShortnFiery]

25. No worries, Derailer

When the opposition refers to you in a derogatory manner "illiterate post" it simple means that they are threaten (sacred to death?) that this may lead us into waking up the sheeple. The present "power base" in the Democratic Party is the ruling class types of the DLC. They want to keep their entrenched crones, continue to dumb us down via misinformation and, in essence, promote the status quo of continued privatization of every-damn-thing.

Perhaps unlike the Republicans, the "status quo" DLC "money powered" Democrats will offer us a bandaid after they cut in half the average American Worker's prospects with a figurative machine gun, i.e., continue to rape the treasury and outsource our jobs?

We are being lied to - by both Parties it's just a question of the matter of degree.

If you have an outstanding representative who speaks truth to power, hold onto them like a precious Gem. However, if you have a gutless wonder Representative, how about VOID as a TRUE and HONEST choice to vote out all corruption and/or cronyism.

http://voidnow.org/

Again, there are notable exceptions, very notable - but they can't accomplish any damn thing when the DLC (working behind the scenes) calls all the shots.

Yeah, Clinton "feels our pain" - I hope that's not why he outsourced our jobs to NAFTA?

[cali]

27. Oh please,

so now a liberal dem posting on DU is your opposition? How ludicrous. And take my word for it, I'm not threatened by lame blanket condemnations of all democrats in the Congress. Way to incorporate all the moronic talking points of the out in left field crowd. From the DLC controls everything to the myth that the dems are promoting privitization. Not true.

Yes there are corrupt dems and dems that don't fight for the people but there are plenty of dems that stand up for their constituents. I know my representatives in D.C. do. I'm glad to thank Senators Leahy and Jefford, and Representative Sanders for all they do. While I'm at it, that goes for the entire Mass delegation, much of the NY delegation, many representing California.

[ShortnFiery]

29. The let's vote all the bastards out!

Think about it, there's not much that one could consider liberal (or even Christian if you mix Church and State) about NAFTA.

Clinton did a lot of good things and I supported his right to have a little piece of a** on the side without the world getting involved in his private life. But Clinton (either of them) = Liberal Democrat? Nope. Family Political Power Dynasty? Perhaps, they're trying. The Gore family already is considered the beginnings of a Family Political Dynasty, but at least Al loved caring for the environment - but picking Lieberman as his running mate? That does not make Gore a Liberal Democrat either. Many kids of politicians become politicians but I always am suspicious with the ones who are affiliated with the DLC.

DLCers please don't try browbeating to get Liberal (not progressive!) votes? We are wired to be those to "question authority", therefore the more you push and pressure the "thou shalts" the more we'll back away from you.

[cali]

33. Quite an accomplishment!

Your post is simultaneously nonsensical and non-responsive. Why on earth would I want to vote out Senator Leahy? Why wouldn't I be thrilled about voting for Bernie Sanders to replace Senator Jeffords?
Or do you consider them to be sellouts?

I am not now, nor have I ever been affiliated with, or supportive of the DLC. Please refrain baseless accusations.

I didn't address Bill Clinton or Al Gore in my post, so lecturing me about them is a tad presumptuous of you. You appear to be wired that way, too.

[ShortnFiery]

39. If you would go to my suggested web site and actually read

the mission of VOID, http://voidnow.org/

you'd FULLY understand my perspective. Further I believe that I mentioned before, there's no need to vote out GOOD representatives.

"All the bastards" means all of those crony and corrupt politicians, both Democratic and Republican.

Not everything democratic has to BELONG to being a member of the Democratic Party. Hell, if we had good independents or greens - I always vote for "the person" over The Party.

[monarch]

7. I do think that there is hope.

It's too easy to criticize. How would you like to face uncertainty about your job every two years. Sure, those who lose elections can often make more money lobbying but some people, initially at least, are motivated by altruism. Any candidate that I have ever known (and I have known several from governor to federal office holders) started out with the best of motives. It is a grueling job and once we get the money out of elections (something we absolutely have to do to get rid of special interests.) we can at least reduce their fundraising time. They need to stop spending all of their time fundraising before they can even think about solving problems.

[no_hypocrisy]

9. There's a difference between having no plan & not showing your cards.

I have a feeling this situation is the latter. Everytime dems have announced something in opposition to *, Rove goes after them. If they offer nothing, what can he do (effectively)?

[C_U_L8R]

12. Shame on us

if we don't hold our representatives accountable...
(and shame on them if the forget who they work for)

[Trevelyan]

13. I think you are right and this is the thing that progressive are anguishin

over. I would love to see Congressman Conyers as head of the Judiciary with subpeona power but would the bought and sold and frightened of BFEE dinos support Conyers and Feingold and the American people in investigating bush's crimes and removing him and his cronies from the offices they stole from us?

[cali]

14. Do you even know who's on Judiciary along

with Conyers? No one who knows anything about the composition of that Committee could ever categorize those dems as bought and sold. Lofgren, Van Holland, Waters, Wexler, etc. They'd all do a stellar job under a Chairman Conyers.

[Minnesota Libra]

15. Oh come off it - how do you think we've gotten the info we have now if....

....it wasn't for the :dem: hammering away every single day at this WH criminal bunch. The :dem: are waking people up a little more every day and now they've even woke up some of the media to the criminal acts.

No, I don't agree with everything the :dem: do but I've got the good sense to give credit where credit is due.:grouphug:

If anyone here thinks they can do a better job it's called running for office and going to Washington DC.:patriot:

[Squeech]

17. Yes and no

Certainly some Democrats (cough*Lieberman*cough) are looking to plug into the K Street money machine and think it's just a matter of waiting their turn. They're wrong; the whole institution of lobbying is inherently tilted to the country club crony culture that's overwhelmingly Republican-dominated.

Some Democrats were just scared of the cards Dubya can play and the strings Rove can pull-- the 9/11 war-on-terra catchall, the Jeebus intolerance frame, various species of Swift Boating. But they're beginning to understand how hardball the Repukes play, and I don't think they're knuckling under any more, not to the degree they did in Dubya's first term. The coherence of the Democratic caucus-- "party discipline"-- is way higher under Pelosi and especially Reid than it was under the feckless Daschle. (Part of the reason for the recent improvement is that the more compromise-prone Dems like Daschle got voted out, which makes sense if you think about it: they represented redder constituents and had to toe a more balanced line that ultimately satisfied nobody. Now we mostly have Dems whose voters have their backs-- note how laughable all Republican challengers to Hillary Clinton are.)

The biggest problem is just getting their faces and their messages on television. And that's because of the VRWC stranglehold on the media. They won't give an Obama or a Feingold the "face time" of a McCain or a Lieberman. In fact you might consider that the real subtext of your observation is that every legislator seems to spend more time and effort figuring out how to get a camera in front of him than about how to run the country!

[meganmonkey]

18. Keep in mind, too

that they are turning off independents left and right (pun intended). The people who campaigned for Dean or Kucinich in the primaries in 2004, and truly believed in the grassroots Dems as a power for change. A year and a half later, only a handful of Dems have taken a stand against the corporatocracy and the lethal Repub policies. So unless the Dems start to stand for something, and back it up with action (at the least, loud voices, given their lack of power), they won't win by default, because they will lose a lot of votes.

:shrug:

[populistdriven]

20. The democrats are the good guys .

Just compare the shithole this country is in now versus under Clinton.

[the other one]

21. Thanks for all the great responses!

I was away all morning and didn't get to participate in the argument.

You see, I've learned something today: you can't say something on DemocraticUnderground without expecting a shitstorm one way or another. And that is good.

On the one hand I would like to believe that the Dems in power would be different. On the other hand I am too cynical to fall for that crap anymore. The whole system seems to have been overtaken by rot, and I fear that a change from one party to another will have little effect. Inertia, you see.

Is there really any voter accountability when you can only vote once every two years?

I appreciate the need to hide one's cards, but the cards the dems are showing lead me to suspect the ones they are hiding. The only principle they are standing on is that they are not the GOP, that they are not Bush. If they win based on "not being Bush", who will they owe this victory to? As soon as they take office they can assert that the voters got what they wanted - anybody but more republicans.

And this is not to deny people like Conyers and Waters and some others. I applaud their efforts. I admit things would be incrementally better if dems directed committees instead of gops. But the Dems overall are positioning themselves so that they don't have to be the agents of change,and based on that I wonder if they will really work for the interests of their base if they regain power.

[ShortnFiery]

24. Thanks for posting ...

What some DUers here do not understand is that many democrats cannot be brought "on-line" through this type of pressure.

Hey! We're not republicans - when it walks like a one world order, and talks like a one world order. No regulation of run-away capitalism is going to be the death of this Democratic Republic.

[seabeyond]

22. my gosh, have you not heard the dems all over the place the last

week. this is not going any further then last week. maybe the dems not standing is purely a bunch of empty words for whatever agenda because i heard the dems kick ass all over the place. you are off track,. i am sorry the you ignore what the dems do for your own purpose but you just feed the tired talking points to dismiss and queit dems that we have been hearing for quite a WHILE NOW. THIS IS A USELESS, shallow, nontrue post.... sorry about caps

[ShortnFiery]

30. Don't be disheartened "the other one"

When they flatly dismiss your views ("THIS IS A USELESS, shallow, nontrue post") you gotta know ===> You've really struck a nerve ... everywhere! ;)

[seabeyond]

31. ya right. or you are just telling yourself a story to once again ignore

fact for agenda purpose

[ShortnFiery]

32. What facts, sir? I see little if ANY true fact that the Power Dems have a

SPINE. Again, with notable execeptions, there's a big push to remain neutered by the republicans.

[seabeyond]

34. exactly. notable exception. with the exception of the dems

that have been standing up and speaking out, there are no dems that are standing up and speaking out. i learned a long time ago, with posts like these it is a waste of time to present the facts cause you simply ignore them, as you are doing presently in this statement. hugest of duuuuuhs

[cali]

36. Let's see:

Leahy, Kennedy, Kerry, Harkin, Feingold, surely you'd admit that these are powerful dems. Leahy backed up Feingold at the hearing about Censure. Kennedy has long fought for liberal causes. Feingold introduced the Censure Resolution. Harkin has one of the most independent and liberal voting records in the Senate. Sure, they're not perfect, but all of them are on the right side of liberal and progressive causes far, far more often than not. Durbin, Mikulski, Boxer. I could go on.

In the House: Practically all the members of both the CBC and the Progressive dem coalition.

You NEVER provide specifics in your posts. That makes for a very weak argument.

[ShortnFiery]

23. Well put ... that's why

I am seriously considering staying home this upcoming November.

The only thing I fear is the strong belief that, as a Country, we're going to have to "feel the pain" and feel it BAD. :grr:

I'd much rather have what I consider the "worst party of corruption" (Republicans) in power as the Country degrades into a totalitarian police state. ... That is, after speaking truth to power, my "financial" head is still bashed in and my job outsourced, even IF my Democratic Party riot police representative politely remarks "Excuse Me. or "I feel your pain."

[cali]

28. So you'd rather have the repukes in power?

Because of course you're right. There's no difference between them. The dems would privatize SS. They'd nuke Iraq. They'd continue pillaging the environment. They'd force more unfunded mandates on the states. Right. There's no difference between the parties. If you're a registered dem, may I ask why?

[ShortnFiery]

35. The only thing I love about VA is that we do NOT declare our parties

It's lots of fun in my Kool-aide drinking district to beat feet to the republican primary in order to vote for the RW secularly oriented local rep. ... so the rabid "talking in tongues" "execute abortionists" type opponent don't win. You have no idea how relieved I was to get just the generic Right Winger in. Oh gosh, maybe I should just move? <g>

[cali]

37. Non responsive once again n/t

[ShortnFiery]

38. What you call non-responsive is only "an independent thinker"

I'm admittedly not in near the same league as Mark Twain - no implied comparison, for he one of the best (world class) pro-human rights promoters. But like one of his famous quotes that had words to the effect that "I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would have me." That's the way I have lived my entire life.

No, I'll give you that there are far more humane and pro-liberty Democratic Representatives than Republicans, far more! And as a party, we don't degrade (in general) to character assassination tactics and whisper campaigns ... my point is that the Democratic Party's "purse strings" may not be controlled by those who have the best interests of the non-investor , average American Worker at heart. And we ALL know, *money* changes everything! Money can't buy you love but it can buy you most anything else, cha ching ...

gotta get me some of that MEAN GREEN, not do no "goody goody works" bullshit. :sarcasm: <--- the DLC leadership will not help the GOOD Democrats do what's right for the American Worker with regard to regulating Capitolism.

Very responsive, but not the perspective you wish to hear. Although I worked for our local Dems during 2000 and 2004, I've never been a joiner, but the closest I come to that is voting for Democrats about 90% of the time. That's not so bad, aye? I'd love to see many more GOOD folks with a D after their name run. :-)

[European Socialist]

26. Very risky--Like the Detroit Lions going into a prevent defense....

with a two touchdown lead,in the 3rd quarter.