PREDICTION: We will spend all week discussing Hersch. Distraction 101.

[Atman]

Cynthia McKinney has apologized, so that one's off the table. "Will Bush Nuke Iran???" will be the main topic on the Sunday talk shows, and Bush's leaking/lying will be a quickly forgotten second-string story.

Score another one for the Rove propaganda distraction machine.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I have a question for you

what is Sly Hersh's record, as in how credible is he given his record so far?

Answer that one ok

[Terran1212]

4. I think he's won a Pulitzer and he uncovered Mi Lai massacre

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Among other things but that is where he made

his name, and got a pullitzer for it

[Atman]

5. I am not saying Sy Hersch isn't credible

I am saying this story is going to be the next distraction to keep the public eyes off of Bush's leaking and lying.

[Eric J in MN]

8. Whether the US is going to use nuclear weapons again

is as important as Bush's leaking and lying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Only if this hits ABC, CNN, CBS, FOX... which NONE

of his stories have done... why change that pattern?

Oh yes, if they did, the proles might react... the articles in the New Yorker rarely make it out of the New Yorker... the balloons, if you choose to call them that way, are floated there for the ahem, political class.

In fact, go ahead and ask your freinds OUTSIDE of DU if they know who Sly Hersh is or for that matter when was the last time they reaad the New Yorker.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Hersh's articles rarely make it to the corporate media gabfests...

Atman, I think Hersh is much too smart to let himself be played by the likes of Rove.:hi:

[Eric J in MN]

3. Tacitcal nuclear weapons are an important topic.

It isn't bad for us to talk about them now.

We should have talked about them more sooner.

Please ask your Senators to ban the use of tactical nukes:
http://contactcongress.blogspot.com/

[Atman]

9. By the way this B61-11 "tactical" nuke ain't so tactical.

Detonating a "fission-fusion-fission" warhead 10 - 20 feet underground will make a *huge* mess. I am not even sure how to put the scale of the fallout into words.

Even if they turn off the H-bomb section and just use it as a 10kt A-bomb, the level of fallout will still be unprecedented.

Even if they just make it do a 0.3kt fizzle, it'll probably be the worst fallout incident in history.


(Thanks to "Uzi" for the info)

[Atman]

33. Self delete

*

[KittyWampus]

10. Can we put the word Tactical in quotes. "Tactical" Nuclear Weaponry

because the word tactical implies control which will not be happening despite the fucked up daydreams of the NeoCons.

The Joint Chiefs want nukes off the table.

[Atman]

15. LOL!

Yup. I just did! Thanks for pointing that out. I think part of the bullshit here is to make the unthinkable thinkable.

[iconoclastic cat]

6. So, the New Yorker is a propaganda tool?

No, Atman, I disagree with you on this one. We may indeed be talking about Operation End Times all week, but it won't be Rove's fault.

[KittyWampus]

7. Bush IS going to hit Iran. And there's no Congressional opposition to this

In recent weeks, the President has quietly initiated a series of talks on plans for Iran with a few key senators and members of Congress, including at least one Democrat. A senior member of the House Appropriations Committee, who did not take part in the meetings but has discussed their content with his colleagues, told me that there had been “no formal briefings,” because “they’re reluctant to brief the minority. They’re doing the Senate, somewhat selectively.”

The House member said that no one in the meetings “is really objecting” to the talk of war. “The people they’re briefing are the same ones who led the charge on Iraq. At most, questions are raised: How are you going to hit all the sites at once? How are you going to get deep enough?” (Iran is building facilities underground.) “There’s no pressure from Congress” not to take military action, the House member added. “The only political pressure is from the guys who want to do it.” Speaking of President Bush, the House member said, “The most worrisome thing is that this guy has a messianic vision.”

Some operations, apparently aimed in part at intimidating Iran, are already under way. American Naval tactical aircraft, operating from carriers in the Arabian Sea, have been flying simulated nuclear-weapons delivery missions—rapid ascending maneuvers known as “over the shoulder” bombing—since last summer, the former official said, within range of Iranian coastal radars.

[Trevelyan]

17. Murtha nearly shouted in a speech yesterday that "We will NOT" be in Iran

and that his subcommittee was refusing to fund it. Link was on DUs latest breaking about an hour ago.

Nothing on Iran, yet, but Murtha's site has some excellent articles:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa12_murtha/2005_12_14_dear_coll_iraq.html
America Needs a National Strategy to Win the War against Terrorism

[Terran1212]

21. House Dems are brave enough to vote against, but the SENATE isn't!

[cali]

26. He won't ask for a vote on this if he

decides to do it. And I don't believe he'd get very many dem votes to do it, either in the House or the Senate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. He got the IWR and that is

all he needs... never mind the Constitution speaks of OTHER requirements... he is acting like King George, FULLY.

[KittyWampus]

41. The IWR requires he send a letter to Congress, No?

[cali]

12. So you actually think

that Sy Hersh's article was generated by the evil rovian machine? LOL. As far as topics go, if you think this one is merely a distraction, instead of posting to that effect, why not post more about the leaking, instead of posting this?

I doubt very much that the possible bombing of Iraq will be discussed as much as the leak story or immigration tomorrow on the Sunday shows.

I for one, hardly think of Hersh's story as a distraction. The man has a record for breaking accurate stories.

[Ilsa]

13. I dunno. Given the potential for disaster over Iran, Bush's historical

credibility (Iraq) will be an important facet in any discussion of Iran.

[stepnw1f]

16. I Don't Buy This Iran Nuke Shit at All

Even if people do, what the fuck good is it to get hysterical about heresay? I just don't buy it and believe this is being hyped too much.

[Atman]

20. Hey, I saved you a seat over in the crazy non-believers section!

People need to read up on the B61-11 they are talking about using. This wouldn't be some neat little surgical strike. The fallout will land back on the United States, on all those bases we're building in the ME, all over Europe. This won't be "shock and awe." This will be "oh bloody fuck what have they done." The generals have families, too.

MAD. it is fucking M.A.D. I see no gain BushCo could possibly achieve which would make the use of this weapon worthwhile.

[stepnw1f]

24. You and I are on the Same Page

I don't see any benefit even for Bush. It will make his numbers sink even further. Mark my words.... the people will believe he is a nutcase just for reading any of this.

[Jack Rabbit]

18. That's not what's going on

The publication of Seymour Hersh's revelation in the New Yorker is entirely conincidental. Karl Rove probably doesn't talk to Mr. Hersh and probably wishes nobody else would. It is Hersh who has made major revelations about the use of torture by the junta and the OSP's mission of duplicity during the run up to the Iraq invasion.

Hersh has been writing this piece for some time and the publication date was set some time before Thursday, when word about Libby's revelation to Mr. Fitzgerald got out.

Besides, hardly a day passes now without some revelation embarrassing to the junta being made.

[Atman]

22. You are right. Perhaps I was oversimplifying it.

I didn't mean to infer that it was timed/coordinated with Rove. I am saying that I think the discussion of a HYPOTHETICAL, FUTURE POSSIBLE MAYBE event is going to take the focus of the NOW, off of Bush being caught lying/leaking, regardless of whether or not it was just a happy coincidence for BuchCo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Can you chew gum and walk at the same time

that is what is wrong with us as a nation. We CANNOT deal with more than ONE critical issue at the same time.

This is PART OF A PATTERN, of an administration that does as it pleases since nobody is putting a limit. In fact, this fits with Plame, and going to war with Iraq like a glove.

[Theres-a]

23. Hardly a day

You are so right.

[Trevelyan]

19. I always like Sy Hersh but read something on Rigorous Intuition about

Sy's crediblity. Don't know if it is true but with Murtha nearly shouting that America would "NOT be in Iran" and the fact that Hersh did not mention that the subcommittee that Murtha is on is refusing to fund it and the distraction factor, I wonder.

I think the Hersh comments were about another topic but would have to check.

[Jersey Devil]

25. This is not a "distraction" - It is the heart of what is wrong

The total distortion of the checks and balances set forth in the Constitution and the arrogance of the Bush Administration. This is much more important than Plamegate.

[mdmc]

29. when them nukes go off

that will be very distracting...

[Rainscents]

30. Hersch broke the news on WE TORTURED Iraqi's!!!

How fast, we had forgotten!

[grytpype]

31. Jesus Christ...

... yeah, Rove is pushing America toward nuclear war so the TV shows will talk about that instead of Plame.

I get pretty sick of the tinfoil-hat BS on DU, it's almost as bad as Kos.

[Atman]

32. Read posts #9 and #22 before you pull that "Jesus Christ" stuff

Did you read through the discussion, or just jump in at the end so you could post a cute little tin foil hat smiley? My guess is the latter.

[Atman]

34. Reposting #9 since no one seems to want to address it.

Detonating a "fission-fusion-fission" warhead 10 - 20 feet underground will make a *huge* mess. I am not even sure how to put the scale of the fallout into words.

Even if they turn off the H-bomb section and just use it as a 10kt A-bomb, the level of fallout will still be unprecedented.

Even if they just make it do a 0.3kt fizzle, it'll probably be the worst fallout incident in history.



And BushCo/Halliburton gain WHAT by detonating this? So many have managed to respond to every other one of my posts and flame me for my opinions, but no one has addressed this and put it in a real world context. What would Bush gain by doing this?

[Jersey Devil]

35. He yearns to go back to being the fighting President

I think you have to put yourself in their place to figure out why they think it would help them. His popularity was very high when the Iraq war started, with him being the Great Terror Warrior. I think he may believe he can regain that status by bombing Iran, perhaps after an provoking 'incident' (that he may already have planned). That might sound crazy to you and I, but don't forget that these guys are living in a cocoon in the White House and as far as I can see have no real comprehension of just how much they are distrusted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Ok you want to take over Iran

you have no army left, even the generals tell you this... and you DO NOT live in the normal world. Using a nuke in their eyes is just a bigger boom. Rummy has been itching to use one since the bad old days of NAM...

When you deal with insane people you need to stop thinking rationally, becuase they are not. Oh and by the way... where is the benefit? CLEANUP... that is one of the things that KBR has been contracted to do at times...

[radio4progressives]

36. This isn't "Distraction 101" .. Sy Hersch is the only one that's

been unebbedded trying to keep the most important things on track.

The real distraciton is the immigration issue and Cynthia McKinney.

if you think anything is going to be done about this leakage, well it should have happened on the day after it was reported... instead, congress was busy falling over themselves trying to see who can come up with the biggest bait and switch /shell game to offer... let the clock run down.

The Leak gate thing is already being allowed to lose significance in the Public arena (maybe the Dems have something up their sleeve to keep the story alive for a little while longer?)

But Nuclear attack against Iran is even bigger, much bigger.

[sproutster]

37. I'm thinking nuclear war is in fact as big as the leak

The administration can certainly multi-task. This puppy hasn't even made it to my newsgroups yet. If it was rovian, it would be out there already - todays talking point.

I fear nuclear war with every fiber of my being. I have heard serious justification from my crazy right wing cousin - It wont hurt US. Turn it to glass.

He would be a hero in every one of those peoples eyes. They have been pro nuclear for a long ass time.

Just like DU -- They had no thought to the people that is hurting. And yes, it's hurting some of US. The poor brave ones who thought it might be nice to go to collage.

Jeez. We cannot stick our heads in the sand because it "might" be a bluff. Not discuss it, because it "might" be rovian. Allow it a pass because it "might" not happen.

[dogday]

38. The Tornados are the top story, The M$M are already

trying to take the focus off and underplay * part in this leak...

[Theres-a]

39. And steroids

Lots of steroid stories out there.