A reframe and an apology. as to the sexist nature of spousal abuse.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

Why 98% men?

I was married for 10 years. I never hit my wife, she did hit me. I never hit back, I wasn't raised that way.

It happens way more often than reported. Hey. Who wants to admit that their wife just kicked their ass?

This is not an ugly question. Just a real one with real victims.

[LynzM]

1. I know a couple where this is the case

She is abusive, he will do no more than (attempt to) restrain her. Luckily, it has gotten better since they've had a child, but still. No one should abuse anyone, and no one should have to suffer it. :hug:

[seabeyond]

12. now i am thinking about the child.

and this isnt in judgement, because there are reason why people are as they are. but a woman that hits in frustration, is open to a lot of frustration with child. it might be something she addresses with herself, to heal, ergo not be as likely to project onto another.

[LynzM]

31. I hope that it doesn't project onto the child

They, as a couple, have a lot of long-term, unaddressed/unresolved issues. For lots of reasons, I don't think these issues would translate to child abuse, though I suppose one never knows.

[Warpy]

2. You're right, with two qualifications

First, male abusers outnumber females about 8 to 1 per NIH statistics.

Second, males are likelier to break bones and cause other injuries that send the female spouse to the ER or even to intensive care. Females are likelier to use a weapon, though, especially when they've had enough and fight back. Male abusers are 75% more likely to kill if a woman leaves. I don't know if any statistics have been kept on female abusers who have been dumped.

Spousal abuse is hideous to live with. The best advice to an abused spouse of either sex is get out now any way you can manage it.

Yes, abusers can change the behavior, but it generally takes years of therapy.

[mom cat]

9. Also, women get more time in jail for spousal murder than men do.

[TheWraith]

15. You're not listening.

"First, male abusers outnumber females about 8 to 1 per NIH statistics."

The point that the op was making was that when it goes the other way, it doesn't get reported. You can cite all the statistics you like, but it doesn't help if the stats are incomplete. You admit it yourself, noting that stats aren't kept on female abusers.

Nobody's saying it's exactly the same, but some of us get tired of the underlying assumption that men are the source of all bad things, and women are all sweetness and light. Violence and predation aren't exclusive to any one group.

On edit, I forgot to add:

"Second, males are likelier to break bones and cause other injuries that send the female spouse to the ER or even to intensive care."

I don't think you mean to seriously imply that violence isn't really abusive if it doesn't result in major injuries.

[Warpy]

26. What makes you think all women report it?

An appalling number think it's normal or think it's a husband's right to batter, "rule of thumb" and all that, plus it's deeply shameful for women as well as for men. I reported the statistic that is out there.

I'm afraid you've read a lot of your own prejudices into my post. I suggest a more careful reading to determine what I actually did say.

My advice at the end stands. Anyone of either sex who is being battered needs to get out ASAP, any way s/he can.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. It happens more than you'd believe

When I was starting out as a young lawyer, more than thirty years ago, I worked as guardian ad litem through local courts, representing abused kids, lost kids, kids who needed help. Very often, my job was to make sure the kids were taken out of a bad home environment.

My very first case involved a boy, about 9 years old, who was living in a tree - seriously - in his backyard because he was afraid his mother would keep beating on him as badly as she beat up his father. When the case went to Juvenile Court, the woman, who was bigger than I, sidled up to me before the hearing started and told me that she had a gun (this was in the days before metal detectors in courthouses), and that if I "broke up her loving, Christian family," she was gonna blow my head off with it.

Now, the statistics will never be known, but I would bet that the men getting beat up are in the double digits in terms of percentages.

Oh, and the story ended like this: I sent word via the bailiff to the judge that I'd just been threatened by one of the parties. The judge sent back word that his considering that "would be prejudicial." So would my brains all over counsel table, I thought, but what I did was go out into the hallway and find some of my male lawyer pals, asking them to stay close to me, and closer to her. She didn't do anything, of course, and I took her son away and got him into a loving, wonderful foster home where he stayed for a decade.

The mother and father continued to live together.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. Wow. Wonderful story there.

An very succinct. Thanks.

[undergroundpanther]

4. Sad

Anyone who abuses for control or whatever is a sick asshole.
I wish there was a way to cure them fast or kill them all off.

Too many narcissists,socioppaths and authoritarians with conduct disorders out there. I wish they did not exist.
I wish every asshole control freak bully was dead.

Anyways here is a few sites that might be useful for you..

http://drirene.com/
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/amibeing.htm
http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/fm/spouseafs.html
tfromwithin.org/html/spousal.html

[U4ikLefty]

6. I have never struck my partner anytme in my life...yet I have been

struck (hard!!!) twelve times by five different partners (female) eight of which drew visible scratches, scars or blood that would be "reportable" to the police.

Unfortunately, I am a man and we (men) do not call the cops as a regular practice. I am a black-belt with 2 championship trophies & could've killed any one of these women with my bare hands, but they knew I "wouldn't hit a woman" so they had "free pass" to use it aganst me in a fight....fucking losers!!!

My advice to men: call the cops EVERY TIME you partner touches you in a harmful way. You should not be treated that way just because you can take a punch & your "woman" thinks she has the "right" to strike you when she's angry.

I await my labeling.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

10. God. Thanks for sharing this.

I really feel that if this sort of thing were reported more often, there would be an outcry.

[Warpy]

14. I sincerely hope you left them all.

If you did, I'll label you "smart."

[U4ikLefty]

19. Yes I left them all. I was young, dumb & looking for acceptance

by the opposite sex. I learned to sort out the "good ones" from the "bad ones" over the years...thank goodness!!! Today I'm with a wonderful woman whom love & respects me...she sooo cool, and she's a lib!!!

[Warpy]

27. Good. I'm so glad you managed to get out

and it takes some of us a very long time to sort out the winners from the, well, freaks.

[seabeyond]

16. i would ask the same of a woman, struck by so many partners

why you chose these women. i have never struck a person, except 12 yrs old, one girl, about learned lesson how yukky feels, but certainly no male i hung with. i have never been struck either. husband and i 11 yrs, not only do we not physically fight, we dont fight. sometimes a little pissy, but then we say something and get on with life

one of the only nifty things i have seen on the show cops is when the woman would be taken away for being abusive. there were times i would be yelling at the tv when taking the male away, nooooooooo... not his fault, take the woman.

i use to listen to my brother and sister in law go after it. they would start early in the afternoon, go drinking that night, for a knock down drag out..... i would grab their child and bring to my place. they would wake in the morning and pretend nothing happened. odd odd behavior.

[U4ikLefty]

20. It was more a question of "how many" more than "the type" of women

I was "adventurous" for lack of a better word and I ran into the occasional psycho. I DID HAVE this thing about a woman whom challenged me intellectually, but often they just turned out to be confontational assholes (note that I didn't use the B-WORD ;) ) whom wanted to fight me more than they wanted to love me.

This was all when I was a younger man, but then again we come to the aching question in America: who shows a modern man how to love?

[seabeyond]

21. who shows a modern man how to love?

me..... but even more..... my husband. the father teaches this to the boys, the mom allows it in a boy so he can when he is older

i hear ya. thanks for sharing

[U4ikLefty]

22. no prob....it's good to reflect on the past (even the painful parts)

It keeps one centered, honest, lucid....or whatever it's supposed to be. I'll try to be that father/husband when the time comes (fingers crossed). Thx for the kind words!!!

[Poll_Blind]

7. A close friend of mine, an opera singer oddly enough, was...

...constantly beaten, on a few occasions beaten up by his girlfriend. He refused to hit her back and when he tried to restrain her she would just kick or headbutt him.

She weighed about 1/3 what he did- a really elfin creature, if one could judge by looks alone. This gentleman friend of mine was very handsome and the first time I saw him with a bruise on his cheek from a hard slap or a punch I really wanted to knock a few of her teeth out, regardless of her size or sex.

He actually spent the night a few times at my apartment because her violence got so bad. I didn't truly believe how bad it was until, after feeling comfortable enough in my presence, she would physically bully him openly.

We both knew that if he touched her she'd make sure that they threw away the key.

In America, currently, my experiences have been "If you're going to hit a woman who has just hit you, you'd better have the event on video tape because the police are just going to laugh at you or treat you like a wife beater."

I was so happy when they broke up- she drifted away and downward like the piece of trash she was and he recovered although until we had a few really long talks about it- he still blamed himself for some part of the abuse.

This guy was a real sweetheart of a man- truly gentle, thoughtful and loving.

I have little (but still some) mercy in my heart for those (regardless of gender) take out anger physically on their signifigant other.

PB

[Poppyseedman]

8. A friend of mine wife hit him several times one night.

he finally got pissed and threw his wallet at her, first thing he could reach for. Lucky for her the lamp wasn't closer.

She called the cops because he throw something at her. She thought she had him over a barrel. You know poor abused wife verses mean husband.

The police investigated the call arrested her and tossed her butt in jail. He was issued a warning for throwing an object at her.

I know because I loaned him the money to bail her out.

This event definitely changed her because she knows the police were not going to be fooled. Plus she now had a record of being arrested.

It does work both ways.

[cynatnite]

11. Real victims on both sides

Spousal abuse is a major problem in this country whether it's women or men getting abused. It's worse for men that are abused, IMO, because there is such a stigma attached.

Thank you for the reminder about the other side of spousal abuse.

[Darth_Kitten]

28. I still think it's worse for the women ending up dead.

Abuse is abuse.

[supernova]

13. My sister in law is emotionally abusive

to my brother. And it rips me up inside. :cry: To the point I can't be around her. And sadly, he's too blind to see it. :cry:

I don't know if she has crossed the line to physical abuse in the 20 years they've been married, but I wouldn't be surprised. Well, that's not true, she had an episode so bad that they had to call the sheriff to cart her off to the psych ward.

But most men who are the primary victims are very ashamed of saying that their wives are abusive. I think it would be a good start if they started speaking up. There's no reason they shouldn't avail themselves of the support networks built in to communities for dealing with spousal abuse.

[seabeyond]

17. this is really a very good thread. i have been having issues with this

with my boys in school and their interaction with the girls. i talked ot a mother with girls last night and told her, us women arent doing good by our daughters, adn certainly effecting our boys. we have it down to teach our boys not to hit, and girls not to allow it, .... we have learned ot buildour girls confidence, but unfortunately, what i am seeing is our girls are feeling a power over our boys, and truly abusing them in school adn they are not being called on it.

i have been watching for about three four years now and is consistant in the three schools boys have been in. it really effects my boys on the fairness of it all. a boy does anything and their ass is in trouble. girls go around hitting, kicking pinching ears and the boy gets in trouble.... or they cant say anything, or told not a big deal

i dont like unbalance. either side. girls get away with abusing they are going to teach a whole generation of boys (once they are bigger) to not take their shit. there has been occassions when i have told boys angrily, dont take that shit, defend yourself. mom i am not allowed to do anything to a girl......

so

just sharing. but i do see a problem here

[blondeatlast]

18. It does happen way more than is reported.

I know both a straight and gay couple where this is the case.

It doesn't matter which way it occurs. People get hurt and I find that unacceptable.

[TheWraith]

23. Kicked and recommended.

What you say is too true. The cultural perception of "real" men as being macho, imperturbable pillars does them as much damage as it does to anyone else.

[JI7]

24. i think it's because men are usually more physically bigger and stronger

i remember one guy saying he had a girlfriend who always abused him and he got tired of it and one day after she attacked him physically he just grabbed her so she couldn't move and told her never to do that again or she will be sorry. and he said she never did it again.

women usually could not do the same to guys who are abusing them because they aren't as strong.

[Lefty48197]

25. I have a buddy who's ex maimed him on several occasions

He's an idiot for staying with her.

[leftofthedial]

29. my ex was emotionally abusive for most of the last 10 years

of our "marriage"

She hit me a few times, nothing major, just frustration on her part when her emotional abuse wasn't having the desired effect. I never hit her. She also threw things a few times. I was concerned for her mental health for a time back when I still cared.

[DiverDave]

30. My wife was arrested

when she tried to kick me in my knee.
The knee I was waiting to go into surgery to get fixed.
When I pushed her away from me, she called the cops.
The cops looked at my shin, where the skin had been scraped away by the boot she had on.
They cuffed her, and took her away.

The thing I did to get kicked?
Trying to leave the house to get away from an argument.
I wasn't leaving for good, just to cool things down.
I was ready to go with them, to jail, just to get out of the house.
She, and I, thought that I was the one getting thrown in the clink.
I would have NEVER called. Men don't do that.
I'm just glad we didn't have a gun, I believe she would have shot me...totally out of control.

The parting shot from the female cop?
"get out of the house when things get bad"
I told her that my wife wouldnt let me out of the door, would stand in the way.
What was I supposed to do?, I would never hit her, and she knew it...



She has never done it again, and things are MUCH better now.