Liberals make up only 16 percent of the population

[Berserker]

Say What? I find this very hard to believe. I consider myself a crazy eyed far left radical what is the percentage of people like me? 2% http://www.westernwisconsindemocrats.org/
A nationwide survey found that self-described liberals make up only 16 percent of the population, compared with 36 percent who call themselves conservatives and 47 percent who say they are moderates. -- Pollsters Penn, Schoen, and Berland.

[benburch]

1. I call bullshit. nt

[Berserker]

2. I call bullshit also

if you google them it says the pollsters are friends of the Clintons?

[radwriter0555]

44. 63 million registered Democrats, 47 million registered Republicans

out of a total of 204 million eligible voters (age 18 or older)

32 million registered as independents or with minor party
62 million not registered

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnists/neuharth/neu057.htm

[Ksec]

3. Because they villified the term, Liberal

[Maddy McCall]

10. Exactly.

[Berserker]

17. Villified is a great term

people that listen to this slimy bastard here things like this.
"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus—living fossils—so we will never forget what these people stood for."
- Rush Limbaugh, Denver Post, 12-29-95

[nonconformist]

23. Ding ding ding ding! nt

[napi21]

4. Hmmmm, I think that 47% moderate is pretty close.

I have no way of knowing if the 36%/16% is close or not. I really do believe most people are not radicals in either party. At least they don't think they are, and that's the way they would answer a poll question.

[Ksec]

8. Is anyone a pure Liberal or conslobatard?

I dont think so. I dont know anyone who agrees with everything from either side. I would guess that most people are moderate.

[Finder]

45. Agree. n/t

[silverweb]

5. They sound like masters of spin.

NOT legitimate pollsters.

Just read some of the stuff _here_.

[RoyGBiv]

6. Self-described ...

That sounds about right actually for "self-described" liberals. The word has taken on such negative conotations that a lot of people won't associate themselves with it, regardless of their beliefs.

Statistics such as this one mean nothing in the context they are generally presented. IOW, it does not necessarily follow that 16% of the population is liberal simply because 16% of the population says it is liberal. I very much doubt half the population would describe itself as "below-average" in intelligence, but by definition, just less than half are below average.

Considered in the context of other polls, such as the one that lays out policy positions in terms that aren't immediately associated with political parties or ideologies, a majority of Americans are liberal or liberal-leaning. They just don't realize it, and they allow others to define who they are.

[benburch]

11. I think you have solved it.

Were instead you to poll on specific beliefs that make up Liberalism, such as State help for the infirm, 5 day work weeks, public schools, etc, you would find the true answer is about 30%.

And would you poll those conservatives on the same basis, about 8% would wind up fascists, the rest moderates.

[DanCa]

7. Fuzzy Math

Has to be.

[Montagnard]

9. DLC

Google Penn, Schoen, and Berland

[benburch]

15. Ah! In their self interests to inflate the "Moderate" numbers.

People have to learn that it is all in the exact wording of a question in a poll...

You can ask the same population different versions of the same basic question and get wildly different results.

It also matters what other questions you ask first!

Suppose the question before "Do you describe yourself as a Liberal?" was "How do you react to Michael Savage's call for all Liberals to be executed?", you could expect a much lower response self-identifying as "Liberal".

People lack this basic information in judging the results of polls, and I think we need to educate them on this matter.

[TahitiNut]

12. So many people don't really think for themselves ...

... that they seek the 'cover' of such contemplative terms as 'moderate' and 'centrist' thinking it portrays them as not herd-oriented or 'extreme.' It just shows they don't think of the core meanings of the labels they adopt and haven't examined the issues sufficiently. Strangely, this syndrome isn't unknown on DU ... where so many try to associate themselves with a 'moderate' label but measure up as far more liberal when they actually take positions on a variety of issues.

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. The interesting thing about the Political Compass test

is that of the 2004 Democratic candidates, only Kucinich, Moseley Braun and Sharpton were in the lower left quadrant. The others were somewhere in the upper right - where no DUers who took the test appear. I suspect that both the positioning of the candidates by the site designers is suspect, and that we fool ourselves when answering - we often give a 'theoretical' answer, rather than what we'd do in practice, in the real world. I really doubt DU is quite as left and liberal as the results imply.

[TahitiNut]

43. I'm reminded of the depiction of New York City in the New Yorker years ago

... where it's 90% of everything and the rest of the country is dwarfed while the rest of the world is virtually non-existent. I doubt we fully comprehend how far right we've been seduced.

The Political Compass is, afaik, authored by UKers and reflects a more international terrain than merely US. I read quibbles on DU all the time, yet the positioning of Canadian, British, and European politicians is rarely challenged. The fact of the matter is that the relative positions of various politicians is virtually never challenged - only the positions in relation to the 'compass axes.' In my opinion, that merely serves to underline its credibility.

I tend to agree that non-politicians answer differently than politicians. While politicians answer according to their near-term focus on what they'd (rationally) WANT to implement while in office, people tend to answer in terms of what they'd like to EVENTUALLY see implemented, 'pragmatics' aside. If anything, this then portrays how far away we are from where we really want to be ... and how we're 'settling' for something less when we support the politicians. When it comes to 'compromise,' just how many times will we cut the baby in half?


Stated another way, would most DUers support the 1845 candidate that proposed humane regulations (and 'fair trade' prices?) on the treatment of slaves or an abolitionist??? I can just see the posts now: "The abolitionist is unelectable!!" and "We're not REALLY abolitionists here."
:puke: :puke:

[Montauk6]

13. Given how "liberal" has become such a dirty word over the past few decades

this doesn't surprise me.

That being said, I DON'T believe that only 16 percent are DE FACTO liberals. My guess is that the 16 percent in this poll were the "I'M A LIBERAL, DAMMIT! WANNA MAKE SUMPIN' OF IT???" crowd (aka the "I'M A LIBERAL, DAMMIT! YOU GOTTA PROBLEM WITH THAT???" gang), of which I would align myself btw.

[Union Thug]

14. Part of this may be due to the fractured nomenclature of the Left.

An anarchist doesn't describe him or herself as Liberal. Nor does a Socialist. I know slightly more moderate lefties that don't identify themselves as Liberal, instead opting for Progressive and so forth...

I think we are just starting to see a similar fracturing of the right. I hear the terms "bush republican" contrasted against "Reagan Republican", neo-conservatives and paleo-conservatives...etc...

Perhaps in a few years the same numbers will be true of the Right..?

FWIW...

[benburch]

16. Agreed completely.

I describe myself as a Bullmoose Progressive.

[DBoon]

22. people who know the difference between "anarchist" and "socialist"

are probably about 2% of the population, I'm afraid.

[bookman]

18. In their minds...

..I'm a liberal.

I consider myself more moderate. Although I've never called myself a conservative.

[Berserker]

21. Not one of us in this thread

will agree on every issue but I do have a problem with the results of the poll that states 16% of them said they are Liberal. As said above the term Liberal has been Vilified. I will be at that meeting.

[OneBlueSky]

19. people have been conditioned to react negatively to the word . . .

"liberal" . . . mainly because the right has been demonizing that word for 20 or 30 years now . . .

but if you dig a little deeper, you'll find that a far larger percentage of the population agree with the "liberal" position on many, many issues . . .

[bluestateguy]

20. Yeah. And?

Majoritarianism is not a technique of argument I respect. The fact that a majority believes something is not prima facie evidence that it is the correct position. I have always quite honestly thought of myself as just a little smarter than the average American. You know, a step above everybody else.

[EST]

25. Interesting point.

I read a study, a few years back, in Scientific American, I think, and one of their points was that nearly ninety percent of respondents to a question about where one is on the scale of intelligence placed themselves as "not the smartest, perhaps, but in the top ten percent.
Let's see now, if 90% of the population is in the top 10%, then only ten percent is in the bottom 90%. Hmmm...
I consider myself to be pretty conservative, but the usual questions, answered truthfully, place me in the very liberal category.
Self descriptions are particularly inaccurate.

[KingFlorez]

24. 21 percent is the correct number

And that's based on election numbers and how people identify. The catch is, most people who call themselves moderate have liberal economic and social beliefs, just not to the extent liberals do and then from the conservative column you probably get a number of persons who identify as that, but have beliefs that would classify them more as moderate. So the truth is, there really is a Liberal-Moderate majority here and so Conservatives truly are a minority.

[Old and In the Way]

26. I like the liberal label.

From the Merriman-Webster Online dictionary-

Main Entry: 1lib·er·al
Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lEodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free
1 a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts <liberal education> b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2 a : marked by generosity : OPENHANDED <a liberal giver> b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way <a liberal meal> c : AMPLE, FULL
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS this would actually apply to Rush
4 : not literal or strict : LOOSE <a liberal translation>
5 : BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6 a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives

So a liberal is a free man who is generous and open handed (honest).....OK, I'll accept that. And I would say that people like Limbaugh who trash liberals would be polar opposite. Hmmmm, wonder if the dittoheads ever bother to understand the defintiion of words?

[LaPera]

27. This country was founded on liberalism, freedom to do & think openly as

one chooses...but the republicans don't want you to remember that.

[Marie26]

28. sounds about right. nt

[Flubadubya]

29. That means we're ALL right here at DU then...

:P

[entanglement]

30. Makes sense. If humane, sane, smart people were in the majority

we wouldn't be in so much trouble.

[jsamuel]

32. sh&t I call myself moderate all the time, and liberal too

:shrug:

[tsuki]

33. What people call themselves and what they actually are usually

don't track. A better poll would have been to list liberal, moderate, progress and conservative traits. Then figure out what each were.

[JCMach1]

34. Best reason to deep six the two-party system!!!

We often get ignored by the party we call home..

[LoZoccolo]

36. Yeah because often getting ignored is even worse than...

...always getting ignored. And getting 16% of the vote.

Oh hey, wait a second, liberals would need a seven-party system to win then.

[newportdadde]

35. Probably more like 30/30/60.

That mix sounds right, each side has around a 30% core that will not change no matter what and both groups think they are right. I see the rest about 60% being a mix of moderates who shift over economic or cultural issues depending on who is a better marketer.

Lately as the Democratic Party has given up its worker populist roots and turned more corporate the Republicans have done a very good job and pushing cultural issues to the front and capturing more of that soft gooey moderate center.

[seabeyond]

37. moderate and i am here every day, and i always vote dem n/t

[CrazyForKucinich]

38. I believe it. There's about 16% of liberals in congress.

[ecstatic]

39. most people say they're independent because they have no clue

of what the labels stand for. LOL

[skipos]

40. I believe it

The 2004 vote by ideology...
Liberal (21%)
Moderate (45%)
Conservative (34%)

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

While I think most Americans agree with most liberal beliefs, I think that most Americans do not like the label "liberal." It has been successfully made into a bad word. That's why I don't blame people who use the word progressive instead.

[librechik]

41. Liberals are a Grave and Gathering DANGER!!!

note to repukkkes: I think you won the war on words like liberal.

[robcon]

42. I agree with the poll.

My experience is that true liberals are a small part of the population. People mostly call themselves moderates (like me.) That's why Bill Clinton was elected, and why Hillary Clinton will be the next president.

edit: grammar