Asperger's Syndrome

[David in Canada]

Hi, everyone!

My name is David. I am a 24-years-old male self-diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. You can find more information about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

I recently became aware of Asperger's on an online discussion group a few months ago. I was wondering if there are other persons on DU or people here with close friends and/or family members with Asperger's (AS for short) or other Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD's).

We Aspies (sobriequet for a person with Asperger's Syndrome; *NOT* a perjorative) often are bullied on at school. We also cannot read body language and while we honestly care about people, our emotions might be difficult to convey on the outside.

People with AS have huge difficulties finding friends and romance is nearly impossible.

This is my very first topic and I look forward to your responses. Please feel free to ask questions and I will attempt to reply ASAP. :thumbsup:

I apologise for any and all spelling errors contained herein. :)

[JohnKleeb]

1. I have it too

I actually did a presentation on it recently in a class, I really think I got through to a lot of people on it.

[David in Canada]

4. Cool!

Hi, JohnKleeb! Glad to meet a fellow Aspie!

Maybe if we get enough people on here that state their Asperger's, we could maybe get our own DU forum?

As an Aspie, do you tend to get sensory overload? I tend to be extremely sensitive to light and certain sounds. Do you have a high or low pain threshold? I've read that some have extremely high pain thresholds and others (as myself) can barely tolerate *any* pain.

Unfortunately, when I was high school, the hormones and Asperger's made for a bad combination and made me some sort of pseudo-fundie. I outgrew it, mainly because I didn't really believe in the religion crap to begin with. I tended to mellow out as I matured, however.

[JohnKleeb]

6. I don't really have sensory overload

I think I may have a low pain threshold though.

[AlienGirl]

12. I get sensory overload pretty easily

My pain threshhold is relatively high, but I can't stand itchy/scratchy clothes--I lack the ability to tune out constant stimuli, so the tag in the back of my neck will itch no matter how long I wear the shirt...

I also have prosopagnosia (inability to recognize faces easily) and recognize people by movement-patterns and shapes and hair rather than by faces. And I've got spatial agnosia: unfailing sense of the wrong direction (I can get lost anywhere!) and I can't guesstimate sizes, so I will search through all the pots and all the lids and have to try each one with each other one to find what fits what.

Besides being an Aspie, I have depression (diagnosed at 4) and anxiety/phobias. These are pretty commonly comorbid with Asperger's.

Tucker

[David in Canada]

16. My response...

I myself cannot block out external stimuli. I hate it when i'm reading and some obnoxious sound permeates my ears. x(

I don't have propagnosia though. I can remember faces and voices the best. I can tell who is on the phone by the time they've uttered 3 words. However, if let's say, I knew someone as say, a mail carrier and he or she were wearing something other than a mail carrier's uniform, i'd likely pass them by without knowing it...

As to guesstimating sizes, I too am horrible at that. I am horrible at 'eyeballing' length, especially depths.

I also have OCD. I don't have depression although when I do sometimes feel forlorn and occaisionally melancholic when I desire contact with the opposite sex.

[pnwmom]

44. I wonder if you have some strengths that are the "flip side" of your

weaknesses?

For example, my son is color blind for red and green. (Which affects lots of related colors, too.) I just read about some research that shows that people who are color blind -- in other words, not able to see the colors that the rest of us can see -- CAN see other colors that WE can't.

Maybe, in other ways, spectrum people can know things that other people cannot.

[Thirtieschild]

172. Astute observation

My husband's avocation was pottery and, at an arts festival, a couple we knew stopped by with their severely autistic son - he had never talked, etc. He stared at me intently - I felt as if my very soul had been plumbed, that he knew everything about me. When they left, he put his arms around me and gave me a big hug. I felt then that he may not communicate like we communicate, but that he goes deeper. Who is to say that our way is better.

[AndyTiedye]

405. No Reason to Put Up With Annoying Clothing Tags, Or Getting Lost

The tag on the back of your neck will itch until you get out the seam-ripper and remove the tag. :-)

I think the reason we don't recognize faces is because there is a whole communications channel
involving faces, especially eyes, that simply doesn't happen for us. So there is nothing for us
to recognize.

Navigation is a much easier thing to learn.
If the sun is out, it can keep you from getting turned around.
Modern pocket GPS devices can also give you an instant map and directions.
Most have a button for "get me home from here".

[AndyTiedye]

406. Do You Ever Do Sensory Overload On Purpose?

Sensory overload can be really disorienting to us,
but there are times when a little disorientation can be a good thing :beer::smoke:

Sensory overload can be quite energizing and fun if I am not forced
to respond to it according to someone else's script, but can just
stim out totally. Get me on the dance floor with some pounding psytrance
and I'm a happy camper! (or better still, bring a genny and a sound system
out into the woods so we can dance out there if this rain ever stops).
Dancing is the ultimate stim.

I think many of us try so hard to avoid sensory overload
that we end up in a state of sensory deprivation instead.
Too little sensory input makes me depressed.

[Oeditpus Rex]

2. You might want to cross-post this in the Lounge

There seems to be a few Aspies who hang out there.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[JohnKleeb]

3. We got a few that I know of other than me

Great idea though.

[shanti]

241. the mental health forum too

lots of aspie topics there.

[maddezmom]

5. My son has autisim

Glad your here. :hi:

[AlienGirl]

7. There are a lot of Aspies at DU!

Since text is often easier for Aspies than face-to-face interaction, places like DU become great gathering places.

I have not found romance to be impossible; but romance with *neurotypicals* might be difficult. My SO has ADHD and some other neurological differences, and though we have our times of rough communication, we can usually apply "theory of unlike minds" to get us out of the problem--if neither of us expects the other to act like we would, it makes things easier.

Communicating face-to-face with another Aspie is awesome, it's like finding someone else who speaks your language--or, more accurately, who isn't simultaneously expecting you to speak three other languages you don't understand. (Really, this expression/body-language has no meaning...NTs often don't get that.)

Tucker

[David in Canada]

13. Sounds great!

Nice to meet you, Tucker!

The whole body language thing is just jibberish to me. It seems to be worse in high school.

I heard many jobs require a knowledge of body language. One person said even real estate agents need to know body language. However, lack of knowledge of body language can put one in physical danger.

I was wondering about Asperger's and parenting. As an Aspie, I have no desire for children and wish to remain childfree. I intend to get a vasectomy as soon as a relationship becomes a realistic possibility... Thing is I kinda like kids but don't think I could do the parenting thing. I'd be a great uncle though. :p Multitasking is really torturous for me...

[AlienGirl]

19. I have two kids, age 10 and 7

The 10-year-old has sensory integration issues and was very sensory-defensive when he was younger, so he is on the spectrum. I was able to pass on a repertoire of self-calming methods it took me till adulthood to learn, as well as tips like "If something's making a painful sound, don't scream to cover it up; instead, cover your ears and hum." My younger son is neurotypical and astounded me by being able to calm himself down as a baby (instead of escalating fussing/crying until calmed by me). I used a style of parenting called attachment-parenting with both of them, and it worked well. But parenting, like flying commercial airliners, isn't for everybody--many people wouldn't enjoy it, and probably shouldn't try.

I have a hard time getting jobs because I don't interview well. One thing I've learned is to look at the place right between a person's eyebrows--it gives the impression of eye contact without causing me to feel scared/threatened.

I learned human body language by rote by reading manuals about the meanings of it. Desmond Morris's Manwatching was my guide through middle school.

Tucker

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. In my son's school they actually teach interpretation of facial expression

He's the best kid in the world, one of the things he has been doing recently is attempting to communicate better with me by looking in the mirror, making the face that he's seen in the picture at school then trying it on me.

I know that he's sometimes puzzled at why I'm reacting with a smile or a chuckle when he tries the angry face on me, but it's cute.

:)

Sensory issues are big with him, especially noise. The loud kind of commercial toilets are the worst.

[darkmaestro019]

57. I'm prettty sure I'm not an Aspie, but I'd never really heard of this

and it is fascinating. And thank you for "neurotypical" I collect beautiful words and that is a truly, beautiful, useful word.

EDIT: My, how rude of me. Thanks to everyone in this thread for the new knowledge and awareness.

And David, welcome to DU : ) It was brave of you to walk in and be so straight-up with that. I'm proud of you. : )

[David in Canada]

66. Hi!

Hi, darkmaestro019! :hi:

Another word that is useful for Aspies and Autistics is "neurodivergent". Those promoting the value of Aspies and Auties promote "neurodiversity".

NT is often use as an acronym for "neurotypical, although 'ND' for some reason is not used as an acronym for "neurodivergent" for whatever reason.

Although there is no rule of usage, Aspies tend to use NT for non-Aspies/Auties on message boards and the like. It's not used as a perjorative but just for reference purposes so we don't get mixed up.

"Neurodivergent" is a term more appropriate for NT's as 98%-99% of the human population is neurotypical.

I hope I haven't bored you to death. ;) You can add more words to your vocabulary. :D

[darkmaestro019]

70. Not at all. I'm saving the post.

I'm a writer, and I would probably have used neurotypical in a sense that would have been insulting in context in the realm of fiction without your clarification. I find "normality" awful, lol.

They're just so poetic, I can't explain it. I love some words the way some people love certain tastes or colors or styles of music. They just make me happy.

The only thing better than knowing a new gorgeous word is knowing the new one PLUS its other-side. Thank you. : )

[David in Canada]

92. You're welcome! :-)

I'm glad to be of assistance and contributing to people's enlightenment. :-)

[Syrinx]

8. just read the thing on wikipedia

And some parts of it fit me.

I've always been socially awkward, and I have a tendency to piss people off when I genuinely don't mean to. And I was a "smart" kid in school.

I need to read up on this.

Good luck to you!

[David in Canada]

14. People Getting Mad...

I tend to do that as well. I have a bad trait of making pretty bad faux pas.

I was smart in school but my grades were mediocre. I love history and English, but I loathe mathematics to this day. I cannot even BEGIN to comprehend geometry.

[AngelAsuka]

9. For the self-diagnosed

I would suggest getting the psych manual (DCM IV or something like that, I think?) as Asperger's and some forms of Non-Specific Affective Disorder (I think thats the one :silly: ) are very close to each other. I say this only from the perspective that I had s/d'ed with it also, but in the end it was the other.

Either way, good luck and welcome to DU! :hi:

~AA~

[David in Canada]

17. I did :-)

I meet every single diagnosis of Asperger's whle not fitting as well with NSAD...

I did contact an Asperger's professional via e-mail and got sent several intensive surveys. I scored a 41 out of 50 on the AQ (Autism Quotent) test. Asperger's is usually 32 and up.

[NMMNG]

53. Welcome to DU AngelAsuka

:hi:

It's the DSM IV-you were very close. Here's a link to the criteria. Aspergers is similar to other Pervasive Developmental Disorders such as Autism, but different enough that it has a seperate classification.

[Heidi]

10. Welcome to DU, David!

:hi:

[David in Canada]

18. Thanks

Hi, Heidi!

Thanks for the greetings! Warm wishes! :toast:

[pnwmom]

11. Hi David. I don't have a family member with Asperger's, but there are a

lot of children and young adults with the syndrome in our area (near Microsoft). Some people think it is because there are so many engineers, mathematicians, and scientists around here.

A close friend of mine has a son with Asperger's, and my kids have always had "spectrum kids" in their classes. The one thing I've learned is that we're all unique.

Thanks for posting, David. Welcome!

[Hekate]

28. I think you're right about the families/genes

My engineer sis pointed out that traits that used to make it hard to socialize and marry--and hence contribute to the next generation's gene pool--have in these times become associated with some highly profitable careers in places like Silicon Valley, thus transforming geeks like Bill Gates into uber-desirable mates.

As for the proportion of late-night DUers with Asperger's and the like -- it makes sense to me, especially since there have been other conversations here around that subject.

In my experience, Mensans have a high tolerance for our more socially-awkward members, and in light of what I have learned here at DU it makes me wonder how many Mensa members were themselves "spectrum kids." hmmm

Anyway :hi: and welcome to DU, David.

Hekate

[David in Canada]

31. Greetings!

Thanks for the warm welcome! People here sure are nice. :-D

I myself am insomnia prone. Just hard to conform to a time schedule. Time is but a mere illusion anyways.

It is rumoured that Bill Gates is an Aspie. So is George Lucas.

As far as i'm aware, I believe that Dan Akroyd and Steven Spielberg are formally diagnosed as well. Akroyd did say so on an interview on NPR with Terry(?) Gross.

There was an old Newsweek online article (since gone offline) that said that Al Gore exhibited many traits of it as well.

[JohnKleeb]

33. The story on Arkord I heard is that he was joking

I have heard about Speilberg though. Really Al Gore, that would be something if he did have it. You know what I read while I researched my project that Asperger himself may have had it. On the made fun of thing, I was picked on when I was really young by some but people who saw my history knowledge seemed to be genuinely impressed though I dont know what they really thought of me because I never really was that close to anyone in school.

[David in Canada]

35. Re: Akroyd

I heard the interview with Akroyd. I seriously doubt he was joking. His tone of voice sounded like he was definately in reflective mode and not in comic mode.

Granted, Asperger's was not an available diagnosis when he was growing up in Ottawa, Canada but his early diagnosis might have been amended later on by a psychiatrist later on in life and he retroactively applied it to his childhood.

A lot of Aspies make good comics. Robin Williams DEFINATELY has Aspie traits.

[JohnKleeb]

39. I havent heard the audio yet

Williams I never noticed that though, I am interested by the Gore thing though. I Wasn't diagnosed until I was a junoir in high school/

[David in Canada]

51. Akroyd Audio

Hi, John! :hi:

Here is the audio for your enjoyment :)

Take care!

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13&prgDate=5-May-04

If link doesn't open, try here: http://tinyurl.com/ftwww

[JohnKleeb]

52. thanks

I just realized I pronounced it wrong during my presentation. I said Aus-berger not how this host is saying it.

[David in Canada]

56. Pronounciation

I pronounce it Awwws-pergers. I pronounce the 'g' softly as in 'girl' rather than, say, 'giraffe'.

The name is, unfortunately, a ripe target for wise alec's and smartasses. They have a prediliction for pronouncing it 'ASS-PURGE-ERS'. Ticks me off to no end. x(

[JohnKleeb]

58. yeah thats how I pronounced it too

Awwwws-pergers, this interview is interseting, I really wish i had this before I gave my speech. The doc is mentioning genetics but I dont see anyone in my family who may have it or anything like it however I never knew my patenral grandfather wo maybe had something like it.

[David in Canada]

62. Possible predisposition

There is a POSSSIBLE predisposition to Asperger's for those whose grandfather's were engineers. It seems to occur among children whose paternal grandfather has Asperger's or Shadow Asperger's.

[JohnKleeb]

63. My paternal grandfather was

a labor arbirator which is what I am studying to be. Though on engineers, my dad's mother's father was an engineer for the then largest building in Pittsburgh, Pa.

[David in Canada]

93. Very interesting!

I've hear my paternal grandfather was an engineer albeit I never knew him.

My dad was 56 years old when I was born so he'd be around 110 or so today. :wow:

[JohnKleeb]

121. Yeah it definely is

I don't know what my paternal grandfather's father did though. I know what my maternal great grandfathers were. I dont know this is certainly odd because I don't see anything like what I have in either my dad or two brothers.

[hunter]

130. Well then, now I know...

My own family tree is full of engineers and lunatics. One grandfather was an engineer for the Apollo space program, the other grandfather was a tech tending toward the lunatic side. (That's what I am -- a tech tending toward the lunatic side.)

I often got clobbered by bullies grades K-11. I did not make it through to my senior year in high school -- I'd had quite enough pain, thank you. But I did manage to graduate from college...eventually. Mostly I thank people who could see behind my madness.

Now I'm married and have kids. Life is good.

I think maybe until I was twenty five years old I coped by assuming everyone would eventually be pissed off with me, even if they weren't pissed off right away. And Lord knows I really could piss people off, in many, many ways.

Then I got this idea that if I tried to act like other people, even if I didn't know why the hell people acted that way, it might become some sort of habit with me. And it did. I may not always know what's going on in social situations, and I may be very, very quiet in real life, but I'm not so weird as I was when one of my old girlfriend's mom used to call me retarded. There is nothing good about being that kind of weird, which is why I dislike some of these "Look at me, I have Aspergers!" threads. Acceptance is a fine thing, but overall Aspergers is not a good thing. If I could trade my left testicle to instantly understand people the way my wife and kids often do, I would. And I still manage to mess up in life, sometimes badly, when things go off script for me. I find certain kinds of change incredibly difficult, the kinds of change most people easily deal with.

On the internet nobody knows you are a dog...

[David in Canada]

133. I understand!

Hi, hunter! :hi:

I used to addressed with the 'retard' epithet as well. Very hurtful. Sometimes I still have some bad memories of high school pop up...

As to the Apollo space programme, NASA is a mecca for Aspies as is Microsoft and Sun Microsystems.

Aspies are lucky to get government jobs as they have far stricter job-protection regulations and not subject to the hustle of cut-throat capitalism. When it comes to cut-throat, often the Aspie's throat is the one cut! :cry:

I have a terrible problem with job interviews as well...

[ikojo]

408. I, too, have mimicked what other people, particularly

one of my friends does. She is very proper and does everything right, such as thank you notes and such. Over the years I've watched her and tried to incorporate her behaviors into my life.


I am self diagnosed via several aspie quizzes online. I score very high on the aspie quizzes. I just don't know how to approach a professional with this.

I was brutalized from elementary school to my sophomore year in high school. I never had a wide circle of friends and still don't. I am as happy staying home or riding my scooter as anything else


I was a geek before being a geek was cool. In the 1970s and 1980s the last thing that was cool was being into Star Trek and Star Wars.

[tigereye]

393. there is a lot of genetic research in this area lately, John

also some parents with depressive disorders may be more likely to have children with ASD's, although that could cover a lot of territory and isn't definitive.

There are some great NIMH studies going on that might interest you and others.

[YOY]

118. Robin Williams is Attention Deficit . He is the poster child for it.

As someone with what has been pigeonholed as Attention Deficit (note that I do not write disorder because there is nothing wrong with us) I would know.

[JohnKleeb]

30. Thats an interesting observation

I don't really see it in anyone from my own family. My dad is the talkative type who gets to know and makes friends easily. My mom while introverted like me I think is just shy, she doesn't have the obbessions that I had and have.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. IMHO, I think that the prevalence is mostly environmental.

Often, when I hear people repeat the speculation that the epidemic of ASD diagnosis is mostly genetic, they'll say: "See? There is a huge cluster of ASD diagnoses at silicon valley and near puget sound. That suggests it's genetic, because we all know that the geeks live there."

I don't understand why the case is made that an environmental correlation implies a non-environmental (ie genetic) cause.

***edited to delete an insensitive attempt to explain my point. ***

[pnwmom]

71. I think it's genetic in the sense that there have always been people

with Asperger's, they often came from mathematical families, and we just didn't have a name for them before. (When I was growing up, there was a boy in my class who was very smart but just seemed . . . different. His father taught at the University. Looking back, I bet he had Asperger's.)

On the other hand, there may be environmental factors that influence the development of Asperger's, just as there are with certain autoimmune related diseases. For example, you might have a genetic predisposition to something like rheumatoid arthritis, but if you aren't exposed to some "trigger," you might never actually develop it.

We might be having more spectrum kids now because of environmental factors that triggered the potential for autism that lay in their genes.

[David in Canada]

95. Aspies & Inventors

There also seems to be a correlary between Aspies and inventors. Most inventors have Aspie traits.

Aspies often resist peer pressure and really push the boundaries of their obsessions.

Nicola Tesla, Sir Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, and Thomas Edison all had Aspie traits. Tesla might have suffered from simple schizophrenia (schizoid without psychosis).

The musician Sir George Handel also likely had it. He is best known for his Messiah oratorio from which the Hallelujah chorus comes from.

Of course, Mssrs. Tesla, Newton and Handel all are reputed to have died virgins as well. :-( Einstein got lucky and had a few groupies ;)

[pnwmom]

99. The label or diagnosis of Asperger's may be helpful if it

can help people around you understand you, or if it can lead you to people who can give you tools for dealing with the world.

But that label should never limit you. The label itself is just an invention.

[David in Canada]

103. Exactly!

I find solace in it because it explains my rather quirky behaviour and helps people become aware of it and expand their acceptance for those differently abled. ;-)

[pnwmom]

112. And differently gifted. n/t

[David in Canada]

114. ;-)

Perfectly put, pnwmom!

[donsu]

175. I agree that the environment/toxins play a role

fathers and grandfathers lived with these toxins too

it's great and great, great, fathers and grandfathers probably didn't have it.

[David in Canada]

180. Well....

Well, Asperger's is likely to have been around for millenia while 'classic' or 'severe' autism, especially in the numbers seen today is a rather recent phenomenon.

I would agree that there is probably a link between 'classic' autism and environmental toxins. Many of the cases indeed might be neurological damage due to poisoning and that is mimicking autism rather than being autism, per se. Just my observation. YMMV.

Aspergers and HFA seem to be a different keetle of fish from my perspective. We are very adept at verbal communications while non-verbal communications are lacking or even non-existant. It seems to be a different rewiring of the brain. It is as if we are from a different planet at times. That might explain the Trekkie nomenclature among many Aspies and their being able to relate to Mr. Spock.

[Mr_Spock]

289. Trust me - there is ONLY ONE reason why I chose this user name

I also like Data and his struggle to learn correct emotional responses - nobody laughed harder while watching him struggle!! :D

[David in Canada]

293. So true!

I agree with you 100%.

There are some who say that Leonard Nimoy exhibits MANY Aspie traits.

Another Aspie Star Trek character is Commander Barclay from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

[Mr_Spock]

295. Yup - unfortunately Barclay emphasized some of the weaker

aspects of people who lean toward this side of the "spectrum" of human brain wiring.

[tigereye]

394. actually it's more the other way around

"Well, Asperger's is likely to have been around for millenia while 'classic' or 'severe' autism, especially in the numbers seen today is a rather recent phenomenoon."


Hans Asperger talked about this diagnosis/phenomenon in the 30's- 40s I think, it just didn't make it into the DSM until 1994, I believe. Until the last 10-15 years, there were many more folks diagnosed with typical (classic) Autism (although the classic dx. was still quite rare and usually accompanied by a dx. of Mental Retardation) compared to those dx. with Aspergers. The numbers have only reversed in the last 10 plus years.

[Mr_Spock]

288. It runs in my family

I suppose you wouldn't be able to relate to this as clearly as those of us who see nearly identical characteristics in our children & parents. My daughter showed issues even before she could talk. In the process of getting a diagnosis, I realized that I was just like her - it was great being able to explain the maddening difficulties I have had in certain aspects of my life (mostly social). I am an engineer as this is the perfect field for those of us who excel more in logic then socially.

[David in Canada]

294. Many Aspie Engineers

Hi, Mr_Spock! :hi:

There are MANY engineers who have Asperger's. NASA, Microsoft and Lockheed Martin are full of Aspies. :) Aspies are good problem solvers and inventors due to our near inability to conform to the cookie-cutter expectations of society.

The BBC once carried an online article that a German study found that Asperger's traits start appearing by the age of 9 months. That refutes the old theories of "bad parenting" that I know are BS because my parents are great!

Many also claim the child is "too sheltered" but Aspies need sheltering to stay sane.

Glad to meet you! :toast:

[Mr_Spock]

301. Nice meeting you as well!

There hasn't been an Aspergers post on DU for a while. Meeting nice self-aware Aspergers people is so refreshing - there are still so many who are in denial and live a very sheltered existence. Also watch out, even the open minded DU crowd has it's share of people who think we just use this "diagnosis" as an excuse for poor behavior. It's hard to ignore them and it sometimes sets off my sometimes bad temper. I have to wonder if some people here agree with tom Cruise's stance on mental "issues"... :think:

[David in Canada]

314. Thanks!

Thanks for the words of encouragement and friendship, Mr_Spock! :pal:

[AndyTiedye]

398. Only Insofar as It is a Geek-Friendly Environment

Most of us moved here, and we've always been this way.

[eppur_se_muova]

195. are you referring to this...Scientific brain linked to autism (BBC)

"Highly analytical couples, such as scientists, may be more likely to produce children with autism, an expert has argued.

Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, of the University of Cambridge, said the phenomenon might help explain the recent rise in diagnoses.

He believes the genes which make some analytical may also impair their social and communication skills."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4661402.stm

I happened across this while browsing, and was taken completely by surprise. It sounds like nerds & nerdettes interbreeding might not be such a good idea. (Speaking as an intense nerd.)

Be sure to check out the related links on the upper right.

[David in Canada]

198. Simon Baron-Cohen...

Simon Baron-Cohen is one of the most well-renowned Asperger's experts today.

TRIVIA: He is the brother of Sacha Baron-Cohen, AKA "Ali G".

[happyslug]

15. Get it diagnosis by a professional

Aspergers has many of the same characteristics as Schizophrenia and other psychiatric conditions.

More on Schizophrenia:
http://www.schizophrenia.com/family/sz.overview.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

Please note While Schizophrenia is often associated with hearing voices, hearing voices is NOT a required part of the diagnosis. One of the Characteristics of Schizophrenia is lack of friends and "Deviate" Sexual activity (i.e. you sleep alone instead of with a mate). Thus see a professional to get a proper diagnosis.

[David in Canada]

20. Quite Difficult :-(

It's quite difficult.

I found out about it when I lived in Florida but I left for Canada soon afterwards.

There is a serious dearth of Asperger's experts outside of the UK and Germany due to the fact that Hans Asperger only published his works in German. Then, it wasn't even known to the English-speaking world until Dr. Lorna Wing wrote her dissertation in 1981.

You can find it here: http://www.mugsy.org/wing2.htm
It is, to the best of my knowledge, a verbatim duplicata of the original.

Finally, circa 1994, the American Psychiatric Association FINALLY recognised it. Therefore, most mental health professionals to this day know very little about it and specialists are quite a rarity, even in urban areas.

[tigereye]

395. acutally there are many more hear than you would realize

Univ. of Chicago and UPMC (Pittsburgh) and many other universities in the US. Reams of research are being done as we speak.I know a lot about this area and would be glad to tell you about more resources if you like.

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. I'd agree on seeking a professional diagnosis

I have a 7 year old son with Autism, but until he was 6, they were pretty sure he had Aspbergers. Precisely where on the spectrum a person lies is an imprecise science, and precision helps determine therapies/advice.

I would suggest getting in touch with two organizations:
http://www.autism-society.org/
http://www.thearc.org

Welcome to DU!

[AlienGirl]

25. A professional diagnosis opens many services to you, also

[AlienGirl]

23. Schizophrenia is very different from autistic spectrum disorders

For one thing, schizophrenics usually have flat affect and no sense of humor. Aspies have a normal emotional range (though sometimes skewed toward depression/anxiety; a serotonin and dopamine mess-up is common in Aspie brains) and a fine sense of humor, though it's often connected to unusual things. Aspies and other Autistic Spectrum people don't normally hallucinate or have delusional or psychotic thinking, which are common in schizophrenia. And schizophrenics (and other people in psychosis) generally have a loosening of associations, whereas AS people often have tighter associations than normal and a hyperfocus on one or two subjects. (In my case, animals.)

Tucker

[David in Canada]

29. True...

I have a normal emotional range although the external manifestation of it might be messed up.

I love puns and satire. I am a huge Monty Python fan.

Can't relate to movies with a romance theme.

I love history, computers, and politics. I follow the politics and elections of every nation on Earth, albeit I only follow the results for individual seats of the US, UK and Canada when it comes to legislative races.

While I am a novice DUer, my posts so far are heavy in geopolitical content which I have followed since I was 9 years old. I started reading at 4 but have no clue as to HOW I learned.

I have kind of a brain barrier between the visual and verbal. If I am reading or hearing a description, I cannot make an image in my head. Conversely, when I have a concept in my brain of an image, I cannot properly verbally express it. :cry:

I love animals as well. I have a cat and a dog. I really understand cats.

[TrogL]

192. Schizophrenia is very dissimilar to Asperger's

Schizophrenia is a problem with brain chemistry. One of the main symptoms is a difficulty understanding reality.

To quote the article:

Schizophrenia is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality and by significant social or occupational dysfunction. A person experiencing untreated schizophrenia is typically characterised as demonstrating disorganized thinking, and as experiencing delusions or auditory hallucinations.


Asperger's is a problem with brain structure. Aspie's are quite, even painfully aware of reality. Their thinking is quite organized (unless they are co-morbid with ADD) and distinctfully lacking in delusions. One of their problems is their inability to buy into the delusional world of socialization - "Hello, how are you?" "I'm fine" (bullshit)

Since when is sleeping alone deviant?

[David in Canada]

199. Right on...

You are spot on, trogl! :hi:

Asperger's in fact can be TOO realistic at times. Aspies tend too be good arbiters in disputes due to the fact that we have a hard time forming biases. In fact, I could rule against MYSELF in a dispute if I were in the wrong.

As to sleeping alone, until I was 11 or so I needed to be near my mother when I slept. I would feel abandoned if left alone to sleep. Due to the fact we can't read body language and can't decipher true emotions, we tend to be at least a tad emotionally insecure.

[Deja Q]

341. My previous shrink diagnosed me with schizophrenia...

Of course, he wasn't quite qualified and if I hadn't wiped my PDA could have provided a case against him.

Still, I found people who actually use their brains and became properly diagnosed.

They have listened to me, from discussing recent events to my childhood.

Nothing fanciful or fictitious about it; I am responding to the world's concerns. Not making them up. Not by any measure.

I am not schizophrenic or schizo-anything.

I am an Aspie.

[David in Canada]

343. Very true...

Hi, Hypnotoad! :hi:

I'm seen you around DU. :D You have very interesting insight! Glad to finally chat with you!

:yourock:

Asperger's has only been really recognised in the United States fairly recently. The Germans and Austrians have more experience with it and the UK has a 15-20 year head start over the United States in regards to awareness. That likely explains why most English-language Asperger's experts are either British or British educated.

I was able to diagnose myself via someone mentioning it, I checking it up on Wikipedia and Google. I then looked around for disorders that resemble it. There were a few. Now, this was a few months ago so the names aren't fresh in my mind but one name was Schizoid. I remember this because I made a rhyme in my head schizoid and trapezoid. :D I checked off how many characteristics I had. I fit all the Asperger's diagnoses, albeit 1 weakly. That is around 95% compatability, way more than necessary for diagnosis. The others were all under 50% matching. Ergo, Occam's Razor dictates that I almost certainly have Asperger's.

I checked my criteria by answering the questions objectively and dispasionately. I sought out looking for the truth and not just a label for label's sake. I then confirmed my yes-no answers with me mother who knows me better than anyone and she concurred. It has given us greater understanding and respect between us.

Knowledge IS Power! :thumbsup:

[SPKrazy]

208. Depressive Disorder NOS

Social Phobia
Avoidant Personality Disorder
Schizoid Personality Disorder

Anxiety disorders

many possibilities.

self-diagnosing such a serious disorder, worrisome to me.

[flyarm]

22. welcome to DU David!! i am glad you have come to join our community! n/t

[David in Canada]

37. Hi!

Thanks for the warm welcome! Hope to see you around :-)

:hi:

[aquart]

24. My brother-in-law was diagnosed with it a few years ago.

Romance is certainly not impossible. It takes a highly determined female, however. He and my sister conducted a mostly telephone long-distance relationship for 11 years. They'll have their fifth anniversary in September.

Let me edit in how lucky she believes she is to have found him. He has a great heart, thinks just as he ought on religion and politics, and loves animals and sci-fi. And other things she's rather fond of.

[JohnKleeb]

27. Anyone who has AS here also have problems with fine motor skills?

I've always had a hard time cutting things with scissors, tying a tie when I wear one, etc.

[David in Canada]

34. Oh, yes!!!

Yes, John (may I call you John?), I definately have those problems.

When I sheer with scissors, the area cut it usually rather jagged and not smooth and even. I have always hae had problems with making things even. To this very day, I need rule-lined paper to WRITE evenly!!!

I always had problems tying my shoes so I tend to wear loafers. I can't get my arms to function in perfect unison. I usually have a second or so delay in response.

Of course, I also have a mild deformity on my chest. I have no right pectoral majoralis (sp?) albeit I have a nipple. No fat, no muscle. Just a think membrane of skin and a nipple on that side of my chest. That affects my right arm, most likely.

[JohnKleeb]

36. Yeah I go by John or Kleeb

Yeah I am also left handed so I was given those "left handed" scissors and they never worked. I had always thought that my bad handwriting prior to being diagnosed with because of being a lefty.

[David in Canada]

40. Handwriting...

My handwriting tends to be rather large and I can take up a lot of paper.

[JohnKleeb]

42. Thats my case too

I was so happy to have gotten a laptop as my graduation gift because without it and my quick typing skills I would have never passed one of my classes last semester because it was all based on what hte professor said and from what we heard. NOthing on the board or outlines.

[David in Canada]

45. Computers

I love my computer. I remember the awe and joy I experienced when I first logged onto the internet on the evening of February 6, 1997. Oh, what a joy. I remember the date because that was the day that then-Ecuadorian President Abdala Bucaram was impeached by the Congress of Ecuador for "mental incompetance". (Hey, why can't we use that here? :p)

When my laptop needs repair, I do tend to get depressed and have separation anxiety disorder.

[JohnKleeb]

46. Depression ah yeah

I get pissed off quickly too, its why I dont have an iPod anymore. The day I had someone go to Apple to get it checked out for me and I was told it was beyond hope I got really upset, didn't take it out anyone but I was bummed.

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. My son has a problem with both fine and gross motor skills

The result is that the school tries to separate the elements of his curriculum.

An example: his spelling tests are often given verbally, one of the paraeducators will write his responses for him. Only when the basic point of the lesson is the physical act of penmanship will they require him to write.

It helps because it saves the frustration of writing for situations in which it's actually necessary.

[JohnKleeb]

41. is your son old enough to have gotten in to cursive yet?

I remember when I was in third grade and I could never learn cursive, truth is I just connected the letters and called it cursive much to my teachers dismay. My signature is fake cursive too.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. No, they use a style called denelian.

The style looks bad to me, but what do I know - I'm an engineer.

http://jackandjillpreschool.tripod.com/Denelian.htm

Lately, for him they've started using a modified style that's simpler. Denelian has all these little curly-crap tails on the letters. My son was unable to separate the important parts of the letter forms from the irrelevant tails. It'd frustrate me too.

[JohnKleeb]

49. That would frustrate me too

Its gonna be kind of interesting for me personally to see how my youngest brother who is five deals with this stuff. I don't think he's like me or my other brother, he has leadership skills which is something I myself have never felt I have had and don't see it in my other brother. You knwo what I hated as a kid and I imagine your son may too are these lousy art projects that teachers give. They drove me and my dad insane.

[David in Canada]

54. Art

I am horrible in art. I can only draw stick figures.

Many Aspies are great in art though.

I hated art as a kid. I made up a little witticism at 6 years old. Imagine it song out like a limerick.
Art is fart and fart is art! :rofl:

I still chuckle when I think of that one.

[JohnKleeb]

55. We're exceptions to the rule then

I hated art too, I dont hate art but I just didn\'t like it.

[David in Canada]

59. On Art

While I despise producing what I excuse for 'art', I can admire a good art piece.

I like Renoir and Monet. Picasso is beyond my scope of comprehension, unfortunately.

[JohnKleeb]

61. I have the same feeling about photography

I love beautiful photos but I took photography in high school and I sucked, my fine motor skills or there lack of made me mess up.

[Rhiannon12866]

73. You're either up really late or up really early, little brother! LOL!

Welcome back; we've missed you!:hi:

And great post, as always. You're smarter than you give yourself credit for, my friend.:-)

Rhi :D

[AndyTiedye]

370. I Can't Draw, But I Can Do TieDye

[David in Canada]

373. Cool!

You're an artist, Andy! :yourock:

[Kailassa]

382. That's gorgeous, I saved the pic.

just looking at it makes me happy.

[AndyTiedye]

359. Didn't Get On Well With Cursive, But I Got Really Into Calligraphy

[David in Canada]

43. He's lucky!

I only wish I had those opportunities when I was his age.

I had speech therapy when I was younger and to this day I have a youngish voice. I am often called "ma'am" on the phone! LOL!

I had major difficulties when writing notes. I would always be way behind and my grades suffered.

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. It happens to me too

The flat and unusually-pitched voice.

I think it's very possible that I'm on the ASD spectrum, and I also think it likely that Colin's two older brothers are as well.

Yes, I think he is lucky compared to his prognosis if he were born 10 years ago. I'm an optimist, however. I hope that ASD kids born 10 years from now consider themselves lucky that they weren't born today.

[mandyky]

77. My son doesn't like to write

it is hard for him to press hard on the paper, same with coloring.
He is learning cursive though. (3rdgrade level)

[David in Canada]

94. Same here...

I hate writing longhand. Very stressful, albeit I prefer cursive as it allows me to write continuously and without breaks after each letter.

My computer is probably my best asset when it comes to my mental health and happiness. I'm almost a cyborg. :rofl: It seems at times that my brain and my computer have melded into a new uber-brain.

[happyslug]

194. That can be cross-eye dominance or other factors.

Cross eye dominance occurs when someone's dominate eye is opposite his or her dominate hand i.e. Right handed but see out of his left eye with the right eye used only for depth perception. Often this occurs from birth and the best solution is to train the person to use the same hand as his or her dominate eye (Which means OPPOSITE his or her dominate hand).

When someone with cross eye dominance uses his dominate hand he or she is NOT looking at something from the same "side" but opposite sides. No problem with things done without looking at something (like tying a tie WITHOUT looking at it) but most people learn to tie a tie by LOOKING at how it is done and using their eyes to do things.

Now Asberger's (like Autism and schizophrenia) is a disease of the brain and as such may affect how the hand-eye co-ordination is working, but I suspect it is something else (related but not Asberger's) like cross-eye dominance (Which I suffer from and have terrible hand writing, terrible hand-eye coordination and while I can use tools, I can not use them as precisely or accurately as someone who does NOT suffer from cross-eye dominance).

The hand-eye coordination is very important and a huge restrictions on people when it is cross-wired.

[David in Canada]

200. Eyesight...

I am nearsighted and require glasses. My eyes are 20/270 and 20/360, respectively sans glasses. I can read small print perfectly well ithout glasses if close enough to my face. Go figure. :eyes:

I am also left-handed and my right hand is only useful as leverage due to the fact that I have no pectoral majoralis on the right-side of my chest.

[XemaSab]

252. What happens if you don't have a dominant eye???

I'm left handed, but I see two of whatever I'm not looking at. My eyes don't combine into the "3-D" that other people see.

:shrug:

[TrogL]

221. My handwriting is utterly illegible

I can't read it.

My parents sent me to typing school after grade 5 otherwise I'd have completely flunked grade 6.

[Mr_Spock]

290. My daughter shakes so bad she can't do many of those things

I am OK at those sorts of things, but I was always into athletics even though I have a characteristically unusual gate and running style - people often make fun of me for that though I don't give a crap. My daughter also has "the worst case of ADHD I've ever seen in a girl" which is kind of additive and makes things even more difficult for her than for me :(

[David in Canada]

297. Running

Hi, Mr_Spock! :hi:

I too have an unusual gait. I tend to walk pidgeon-toed and have a prediliction to loose my balance of harried.

I was always the slowest running in track and every once in a while, my feet would lock and i'd trip myself.

As to the ADHD, reference, I hate to pry but does you child consume a lot of processed foods? Processed foods often contribute to ADHD symptoms in Aspies as well as EDTA, MSG and food colouring. Our brain chemistry is apparently much more sensitive. It's one of the reason if scared of genetically-modified (GM) foods as if they are too widespread, it can literally harm me atrociously. :scared:

If the ADHD symptoms occur only in school, the flourescent lighting might be the cause. In extreme cases, it can cause seizures, albeit very rare.

Hope this helps! ... :)

[Mr_Spock]

304. We have experimented extensively with foods

There was no apparent food or alergy related issues adding to her ADHD - she only seems to repond to ritalin - and she really responds well to it as well. We have also been doing neurotherapy along with talk therapy and we are seeing some very promising results. She may never give me a hug without me having to ask her to, but she is very quickly learning to adapt to new situations without a melt-down. She also chooses to eat foods that do not contribute to her ADHD - it's as if she knows from experience that these food will push her over the edge and she just says no to junk food. Thankfully she is amazingly focused on learning and has an IQ at least as high as her dads ;) . My gait is the opposite - I walk like a duckling :rofl: poor me.

[Pithlet]

303. My 5 year old son was recently diagnosed with Aspergers

and he was recently thoroughly evaluated by an occupational therapist, who noted problems with fine motor skills. I think that's pretty common with aspies.

[David in Canada]

315. Hi, Pithlet!

Hi! :hi:

I have problems with fine motor skills as I have mentioned earlier. I have major problems with hand-eye and hand-hand co-ordination.

I have major problems using a hammer and other similar impediments.

[monarch]

32. Let me add a welcome too

I hope that you can find enough like-minded individuals to form your own forum, but, as you can quickly see, you will definitely enjoy your stay here. I say that as a gay person who does not necessarily hang out in the gay forum but who loves the fact that there are so many gays on DU, and, even better, so many who are wholly supportive. I have learned so much on the board, not only about things like Asperger's, but many many other things that are completely unrelated to politics.

[David in Canada]

48. Hi!

Hi, monarch! :hi:

Thanks for the welcome. When I found out about Asperger's, I felt a comraderie with gay people as society at large tends to ostracise both Aspies and gays.

Albeit gays, in right-wing areas are treated far worse than Aspies, there is a correlation between a tolerance and acceptance of gay rights and respect for Aspies. By that, I mean, if discrimination against gays drops, by say, 10%, discrimination against Aspies also drop by around the same numbers. There are exceptions and anomalies, of course, but I think it is a plausible observation. Would make a great study...

Lastly, before I go off into a tangent, may I ask about your DU nom-de-plume? Are you interested in monarchy and history? Perhaps you like butterflies? If I made you uncomfortable, please accept my sincere apologies.

:toast:

[monarch]

68. Thanks for your thoughtful message

Not only will you love it here but it is apparent that you will be making a significant contribution.

As for the monarch name. It does go back to butterflies in a way. Many years ago, my partner and I raised miniature horses and we used monarch in the name of the farm. I was a VERY unsophisticated computer user when I joined DU and it was the first word that came to mind.

Thanks for asking!

[northofdenali]

64. Welcome to DU, David - and thanks for the openness.

:hi:

[David in Canada]

96. Greetings!

Thanks for the warm greetings! I love this place. :-)

[Random_Australian]

65. Hi there! If you're new, I've a present:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=276

A forum when you want somewhere 'safe' to discuss any arising problems.

Welcome to DU!

[David in Canada]

91. Thank you!

Hi, Random_Australian!

Thanks for the warm invite and the link! See you there. :-)

[MadisonProgressive]

67. Hi David, and welcome!

My son is 15 and an aspie. I am going to try to get him to read this thread. I think he would enjoy reading about other people's experiences. I can tell you that most of what you've said applies to my son. I really love him, he's a great kid. He draws really good anime and does really good at voices (impersonations, etc.). I'd love to see a DU group for aspies. BTW, I have always had milder symptoms my whole life. Pissing people off without being aware of it is my calling card!

[David in Canada]

97. Aspie Q & A

Hi, MadisonProgressive!

Sounds like a great idea! I wish I knew about it when I was 15. Better late than never! ;)

I can't use the buddy list (no credit card to donate with yet) but when I have enough posts (should be soon :D) please send me a Private Message if you wish. I can answer some questions you or your son might have about Asperger's.

Knowledge is power!

[dipsydoodle]

69. Two of my nephews

are both high functioning autistics. My sister Julia's family are in Perth Western Australia. Over the years she has accumulated a substantial amount of knowledge on the subject which I'm sure she'd be pleased to share with you by email. If you would like to get in touch with her then please reply to this note and I'll send you her email address direct to you.

Yes - welcome ,and ............don't worry about spelling mistakes etc. !!!!

[David in Canada]

100. HFA & Aspies

Hi, Edward!

HFA and Asperger's are very close together on the spectum. Both also tend to of rather high intelligence, albeit IQ scores are often 5-20 points lower due to testing methods designed for NT's. However, this intelligence does not translate to success as we tend to have very poor EQ's.

Luckily, this is the best time (so far!) to be alive with AS or HFA. Many people only 30+ years ago suffered far, far worse. :scared:

I read earlier that Quebec's government in the 1950's under Maurice Duplessis, who ran Quebec as a quasi-fascist theocracy (no social benefits, church ran schools and hospitals) had HFA and Aspie children declared retarded so the Catholic church could cash in.

I'd be delighted to find out more information! :)

By the way, have you ever read anything by or about Dr. Temple Grandin? She's a University of Colorado professor who invented a humane and stress-free way for slaughtering livestock. Donna Williams is another person with HFA, who is a fairly prominent HFA author.

Some links here:

Donna Williams -- http://www.donnawilliams.net
Dr. Temple Grandin -- http://www.templegrandin.com

Hope this helps :)

[Duppers]

378. more info/links

It was your reference to your sis's family in Australia that spurred me to post this info to your post, Edward.

"The University of Melbourne and the Australian Catholic University have produced a very useful e-booklet called "Towards Success In Tertiary Study with Asperger's syndrome and other autistic spectrum disorders", which can be downloaded for free from http://www.services.unimelb.edu.au/ellp/publications/towards.html."

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~cns/study.html

[Kailassa]

384. Thanks from another Aussie aspie family .

I noticed in that booklet a suggestion of making use of a "buddy system" the university can provide for aspies. (though of course it's much harder to organize that than the booklet would have you believe.)

When my son could not cope with school I let him change to a freer type of school, set up for adults, know as TAFE, (technical and further education). It's sort of a poor man's university, but with some wonderful, very dedicated teachers.

He could not bring himself to go there alone, and got too tired to cope with full time study, so he and I found a part time course I could enroll for too. When the lecturers realized I was his mother, they were disgusted with me for going, accusing me of being responsible for him being, (in their eyes,) wussy, and would not believe that aspergers was a real condition.

I had to continue going, or he wouldn't go, but got hell from the teachers over it. The people who were nice to me were the really "nerdy" kids studying I.T.. (Btw, I'm a nerd, always have been. I don't see that term as an insult, and nor did they.) They helped me with things I didn't understand, and included me in their group as though I'd always been one of them. It made for happy times in which I'd quite forget I was any older than the rest of them.

After 3 years of that, my son's stamina had increased, and he no longer needed me, so he then did a 2 year full time programming course on his own. This culminated in a professional project which he was asked to do public presentations for.

So I recommend to any other aspie, who finds it difficult to get themselves to attend classes, to get a buddy to go with them if it can be organized. It really helped my kid, and I enjoyed it too.

[David in Canada]

385. Thanks!

Thanks for the links, Duppers! :toast:

[Boomer]

72. My mother was never formally diagnosed....

...but I'm fairly certain that she had AS, although at a high functional level, which was why it was never obvious to casual acquaintances. And my mother had learned to never try to have close friends (she always ended up insulting them in some way). Given her age (she died recently in her early 80s), there was ZERO awareness of this explanation for her "odd" behaviors during her childhood and early adulthood. Such a shame, because I think she would have taken some comfort in understanding the source of her social difficulties.

After her death, when I could look back on her life and on our floundering relationship, I finally saw the pattern and kicked myself for not having made sense of it all while she was still alive. But I had been too close to the picture, too focused on navigating the emotional pitfalls of our mother-daughter relationship.

Here's a checklist of her behaviors that seem to fit the AS profile:

* High intelligence
* Obsessive hobbies, some that lasted her entire lifetime
* Extreme difficulty reading other people's emotions
* OCD habits of keeping detailed records of even the most mundane aspects of her daily life
* Quirky dietary preferences that made eating increasingly challenging

The food obsessions were a contributory cause to her death, because year by year new foods would be considered off-limits, and she continued to lose weight even though intellectually she knew her low weight was a problem. She was painfully self-conscious of being so thin (so this wasn't an eating disorder associated with distorted body image), but eating was a chore rather than a pleasure.

On the plus side, she was quite nimble with her hands and many of her obsessive hobbies involved some intricate craft works. They results were all highly geometrical and ordered, almost static, in their symmetry. Give my mother a ruler and a pencil and she could happily spend hours drawing boxes and angles.

As for romance, there was just the one with my father, and that came when she was in her early 30s (quite late for a woman of her era). He wasn't AS, but he was also odd and socially clumsy, so I suppose that's why they managed to hook up despite my mother's emotional disabilities.

I'll say this for growing up as her daughter, I never doubted that she loved me, despite her inability to show it in "conventional" ways. The tricky part was that I never quite found a way to be a "good" daughter on terms that made sense to my mother, although she never seemed to hold that against me. She was a fascinating women, very bright, who taught me to value reading and learning and constant analytical discourse.

[David in Canada]

102. Your mom...

Your mom was almost definately AS. I have many of the same characteristics as well.

My hobbies tend to be politics and history. My main political obsession is with geopolitics and psephology (study of elections). I can pour through old election statistics until the cows come home! :rofl:

Off topic, but these traits seem to describe my former senator, Bob Graham as well. He made a successful political career however.

[Boomer]

120. My mother was obsessed with geology

This was her lifetime passion, above all others. But she didn't just read about geology, she spent decades developing her own maverick theories of how continents had formed and where conventional science veered away from the "obvious truth." Among her voluminous papers (she kept every piece of correspondence she received, annotated with the draft of her reply) were dozens of manuscripts outlining her theories, complete with diagrams and maps that she had drawn.

Of course, she also kept a detailed list of every single Christmas card she had received since her marriage, plus a record of her outgoing cards. All written down on identical sized pieces of paper that she had ruled by hand to provide the precise number and width of columns that she needed. The record from 1953 looked identical to the one from 2001, expect for a slight variation in ink.

So sorting through her effects was like falling down into Alice's Wonderland. The sheer volume was staggering, which made it difficult to sort out the mundane from the truly important.

I've inherited faint echoes of her AS, mostly in terms of OCD tendencies. Just enough to make me love computer programming and other detailed work, and to have spurts of intense interests or food cravings.

On the other hand, my social skills are normal, which always rather perplexed my mother. I could tell in an instant, just from the sound of her voice, if she was upset, a feat that exasperated her when she was trying to hide things from me. Heh heh.

[David in Canada]

126. Interesting!

Aspies tend to break away from the herd and form their own theories. Many of these theories eventually gain acceptance. Did you ever consider making copies of her geology papers for possible peer review? She might very well be correct!

As for tones of voice, I can actually tell a person's emotions by that unless they make a decent attempt at hiding it, then I get confused. My mom has a sarcastic wit so I picked up sarcasm somewhat. Most Aspies can't pick up sarcasm at all. I can (somewhat) due to my early and repeated exposure to it. I probably recognise it via rote memory rather than a bona fide understanding of it.

Some sarcasm I don't pick up. For example, someone might sarcasticly say "Thanks" and i'll reply "Your welcome." When I get the one-finger salute, I then realise it was sarcasm. The subtle, snide sarcasm is hard for me to grasp to this day.

[Boomer]

129. It's hard for me to judge

It's hard for me to judge the merit of my mother's theories, since I never could muster the same interest in the earth sciences.

As a child, I accepted without question that my mother was a misunderstood lay scientist who had developed theories that were too radical for acceptance within the existing geological paradigms.

As a young teenager a creeping edge of doubt began to erode my faith. There seemed to be some alarming science gaps in my mother's view of the world, one formed largely through reading of general textbooks rather than any formal training or in-depth study of the most current research. The arguments we had over whether air had weight (my mother dismissed it as non-existent or trivial) or the validity of carbon-dating raised a little alarm in my mind. I began to suspect that whenever she encountered science concepts that were too complex or that didn't fit her theories, she simply dismissed their relevance to her work.

I have several boxes worth of her manuscripts because I can't bear to throw them away, but I truly don't know what to do with them.

[TrogL]

226. Donate them to a University

Or send them to me and I'll deal with them. PM me with details.

[Der Blaue Engel]

74. I have often thought that my son might be an Aspie

The psychiatrists didn't know what to make of him when he was younger and in constant trouble at school. They said he wasn't ADHD, and that was about all they could say definitively.

After reading this thread I am even more convinced he is in this spectrum somewhere. He's very smart but does poorly in school. He's always had trouble with certain fine motor skills, like cutting with scissors, drawing, writing, and hates to tie his shoes to this day (he's almost 15). But the school said his motor skills were fine since he could do other things with no problem (e.g., he's an obsessive video gamer, and is very good at it); they just felt he was being lazy about the writing and shoelaces.

He also had a really hard time making friends up through jr. high, although he seems to have found his niche recently with some other kids from his old school who share his interests in video games and have formed a band together. It's as if he can finally be friends with them because they don't go to the same schools anymore, so maybe there's less opportunity for social mishaps. :shrug:

I may even have a few of the traits myself. I don't make friends easily either, and have never been able to pick up on social cues to figure out if people like me or are being friendly or not. I tend to do best when there's humor involved, because I seem to be able to communicate better with humor and irony than straight on.

Anyway, welcome to DU. :hi: Fascinating topic. :)

[David in Canada]

104. Similarities

After reading this thread I am even more convinced he is in this spectrum somewhere. He's very smart but does poorly in school. He's always had trouble with certain fine motor skills, like cutting with scissors, drawing, writing, and hates to tie his shoes to this day (he's almost 15). But the school said his motor skills were fine since he could do other things with no problem (e.g., he's an obsessive video gamer, and is very good at it); they just felt he was being lazy about the writing and shoelaces.

This descrition fits me to a tee! I could use that almost verbatim to describe MY life! It's uncanny!!!

[npincus]

75. Welsome to DU!

I'm looking forward to reading your posts. I don't know anyone with Asperger's, but I suspected a friend's daughter may have a kind of autism (she's only 3)... sorry, I don't know much on this topic.

best regards!

[David in Canada]

105. Greetings!

Thanks for the warm welcome! Please feel free to PM me with any questions. :toast:

[mandyky]

76. My son is Autistic Spectrum

He is 9, and his special ed teacher is working wonders wiith him.

I often wonder what will happen with him, he likes people but he also can do without them.
I often wonder if he is ever lonely.

[David in Canada]

107. AS & Loneliness

AS and loneliness is quite complex.

Aspies, in regards to relating with others, often tend to be aloof but loveable like cats.

We tend to like socialising even though getting themselves to do it is nearly impossible to do. Aspies need a lot of solitude and quiet time. We also like to have a tight-knit group of friends. We rarely make a friend but they tend to be for life. In fact, if we had a large cotterie of friends, we'd be depressed from the constant social interaction.

Aspies tend to like to hang out in places they are familiar with. For example, we often are leery of trying new restaurants, but if we do go and enjoy the food, we tend to want to eat there the next several times we go out. :)

Lastly, sometimes Aspies are lonely but probably to a slightly lesser extent than neurotypicals. I like having a few friends albeit i'd rather have no friends at all than a lot of them as the chronic socialisation would make me very, very depressed.

[MannyGoldstein]

78. Just Curious: Is Your IQ Fairly High?

David:

Just curious - is your IQ high? It is said that there is an autism "spectrum", but from what I can see, everyone on the "spectrum" seems to either have substantially-below-average or substantially-above-average intelligence; thus, it's possibly really two separate conditions: Autism, and another distinct condition that only affects very smart people.

[David in Canada]

108. IQ

My IQ according to various online "unofficial" tests, are over 120.

I never was tested by my school as by the time it would have been available, Jeb Bush took over and slashed special education and special needs funding.

Oh, well... I guess some multi-millionaire needed a new condo. :grr:

[lumberjack_jeff]

205. Not necessarily

It's possible to have a diagnosis of high functioning autism and have an above average IQ. It's notoriously hard to determine IQ on children who may have numerous behavioral issues. My son and one of his classmates are both in this category.

[David in Canada]

220. IQ & Aspergers/HFA

Many persons with Aspergers and HFA are very intelligent albeit they often score 5-15 points lower than they should on an IQ test.

I used to have consistent lacklustre test scores on timed tests as the very fact it was timed psyched me out.

[NC_Nurse]

79. Welcome David!

My son is an Aspie and my brother is Autistic. My son just turned 18 and is doing really well, still having the occasional social glitch or school problem. He has trouble with fine motor skills and a lot of the same things you have spoken of. His sense of humor has really pulled him through. I am bookmarking this thread for him!

Great topic, I am constantly meeting folks who have never heard of Asperger's and know someone who probably has it. It's amazing.

[David in Canada]

109. Cool!

Hi, NC_Nurse! Thanks for the encouragement. :thumbsup:

Feel free to send my a PM if you have any questions. :-)

[nonconformist]

80. I think my almost 11 year old son might have Asperger's

He was diagnosed with ADHD when he was 7. And while he does exhibit some characteristics of ADHD - like with the focus on mundane tasks areas - he definitely isn't a "typical" case and treatment has had spotty success. I've been reading up on Asperger's and I am going to talk to his doctor about it next time he goes in.

He is extremely intelligent, to the point where he has been "labeled" as such by everyone he has even had the most brief contact with. He has a very sophisticated vocabulary for his age. However, he is starting down of the road of the "underachiever". The main reasons I think that he may have Asperger's are his lack of social skills and his obsessive nature with hobbies. He tends to bounce around, and it's ALL he can talk about until he moves on to another. Lego is a recurring one - to the point that he knows the history of the Lego corporation and such. It was dinosaurs for many years. He has great difficulty carrying on a socially acceptable conversation with anyone - he will immediately launch into the details and specifics of his obsession of the moment. Right now it's Pokemon, again. He cannot seem to read social cues and facial expressions - it's like he's in his own little world that revolves around whatever hobby he's "addicted" to at the time. He hasn't been able to make any meaningful friendships and is socially rejected and seen as "annoying" because of his inability to carry on a normal/topical conversation.

As far as motor skills - his handwriting is a disaster. I have never noticed any problems with sensory overload, but he's always been extremely disturbed by tags in his clothing.

He's also the sweetest boy you will ever meet.

[MadisonProgressive]

84. Sounds like he has it to me!

Does he tie his shoes? To this day we have to buy my son shoes that don't require tying.

[nonconformist]

85. No, he sure doesn't!

We too have to get him shoes that don't require it.

[David in Canada]

115. Loafers

I always enjoyed wearing loafers.

I detest the feel of tennis/running shoes.

[DesertRat]

106. Your son sounds exactly like my neighbor boy

He's been diagnosed by a child psychiatrist as having PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder)

[David in Canada]

117. PDD

Asperger's Syndrome is indeed a form of PDD.

PDD is a category of disorders, rather than a disorder, per se.

[lumberjack_jeff]

176. I've read that PDD is a diagnosis to avoid

Apparently, there are almost no services available for those diagnosed with it. It's the medical equivalent of "yup there's something wrong here, but darned if I can say what", and thus, no recommended therapies available.

[David in Canada]

183. Asperger's and PDD

Hi, Jeff! :hi:

PDD is a category of 'disorders' and basically quirky behaviours. Asperger's while it has no therapies or cures Most Aspies don't want a cure anyways.

Those who seek a cure to make us regular extroverts are often referred by us as 'curebies' and that term IS often used as a perjorative.

However, Asperger's diagnosis, in some areas, is necessary for getting concessions in university. Such aid available is private tutoring, allowing someone to write notes, extra time on timed tests, et.al. Also, it might be necessary if one were arrested as police officers tend to use body language that an Aspie won't pick up. Aspies often will give off a "thou doth protest to much" gesture that neurotypicals do. Aspies tend to be very nervous in stressful situations and are prone to panicking and signing false confessions when pressed by an unsympathetic cop. Even prosecutors indict persons they KNOW are innocent! :scared:

The problem is that there are so few psychiatric professionals who have the necessary expertise to make a diagnosis.

Most Aspies are also sympathetic to the gay rights movement as we are both basically bullied and expected to follow the life plan as dictated to us from birth. Also, the maltreatment of gays is usually proportional in many ways to that inflicted on Aspies.

Sorry for going off into a tangent. We can focus on a topic and talk in to death. :lol:

[lumberjack_jeff]

189. Trying not to be a "curebie".

But I do know that an autism diagnosis (as would an aspbergers diagnosis) has helped my son get speech therapy and accomodations that are helping him. He is now able to spend about half of his school day in a "learning center" and the other half in his general ed classroom. This is a big success and he loves school.

:toast:

It is not my hope to turn him into someone other than he is, but it is my hope to help him realize his potential. The advice given to me indicated that a PDD diagnosis would preclude many avenues of help.

[David in Canada]

201. I know :)

:hi:

I know you're not a curebie! :) :hugs:

Aspies need to fine tune their skills as their best chance for success is to turn their hobbies into a profession. Unline NT's, Aspies cannot develop an interest unless it comes naturally to them.

[tigereye]

396. David said

"The problem is that there are so few psychiatric professionals who have the necessary expertise to make a diagnosis."


this is not wholly true. There are lots of mental health professionals, particularly associated with Universities, who do have the expertise. Children's Hospital Child Developmental Clinics are very good for a global evaluation and more and more Universities and clinics work with adults.

[DesertRat]

196. Yes

My neighbor was diagnosed as PDD-NOS.

[David in Canada]

113. AS & Dx

Asperger's is very hard to get diagnosed. It's only been recognised by the APA since 1995, so many psychiatrists, especially older ones are almost obliviou to it.

The odd part is, if he has Asperger's, he's the total 180 opposite of ADHD. ADHD is when one cannot focus. Asperger's hyperfocus to the point of being considered nutty. As such, psychological trauma can be far more acute in Aspies and need intense therapy if any horrible trauma befalls them.

As to speech, I spoke early, stopped and then started back up. My vocabulary has almost been rather advanced for my age group as well. I don't want to come across as a braggart, but when I was in my sophomore year of high school, my English teacher told me that my vocabulary was akin to that of a post-graduate college pupil. It has been stated by many that Aspies tend to speak as if they learned the English language from Masterpiece Theatre, and many do! ;)

I was a bit of an "underachiever" as well. I don't know about your area, but in most of Florida, the schools are based around passing classes and socialising rather than deep study and the pursuit of knowledge. Perhaps they don't want a well-informed citizenry? :tinfoilhat:

I developed a deep devotion to politics and history at a young age. Unfortunately, finding kinship with my fellow teenagers via these interests was non-existant. I can go on and on and on, and I can't tell when someone is bored.

Social conversions are mundane and bothersome. Many (most?) people tend to talk about the most mundane things and I can't tolerate the insipid banter for too long. I was often the kid that sports teams in PE would fight over NOT to get. My athletic abilities are basically nil.

I can't read social cues or facial expressions either. I am totally oblivious. This has le to a lot of teasing and humiliation when in high school. To give you an understanding of the severity, say, a movie with a villain that is going to kill someone, I won't know it until he takes out the knife, gun, etc. Most people can see it and have told me so but I can't. Over time, I hae learned to pick up clues via the climatic music which never fails to betray the hidden intentions of even the most villainous characters. ;) Sadly, should something happen to me in real life, I am, quite literally, screwed. (Pardon my French.)

[MadisonProgressive]

167. My son took tests in 8th grade that put him at the 17th grade level

in english, writing, reading, vocabulary, etc.

[David in Canada]

184. Similarities

I would say his history in the regards mirrors mine perfectly, albeit my writing, while great in prose and grammar has atrocious handwriting.

[MadisonProgressive]

185. Yes, I wasn't thinking about handwriting - I meant creative writing

using a big vocabulary and grammer of a much older adult.

[David in Canada]

187. I see...

I'd say the similarities in that area between your kid and I are around 100%.

I'm quite excellent at writing factual accounts. Fiction is extremely difficult unless it involves something that I am very well aquainted with on a factual basis.

[MadisonProgressive]

190. My son thinks fiction is pointless!

[David in Canada]

203. Re: Fiction

I tend to agree albeit two exceptions. Science fiction and alternate history. I love stories on "what if" history turned out differently. :D

[MadisonProgressive]

273. Well, yes, he reads comic books and is a big 'One Piece' fan...

[nonconformist]

392. For a long time, I thought his hyperfocusing might have been

exasperated by his ADD treatment. And it DOES, but it's always existed, it's just gotten more pronounced with age.

I think he's also getting better with age - actually, more adjusted to his own personal shortcomings methinks. I am especially intrigued by the notion that Aspies learn social cues intellectually - because that is what it seems he is doing.

Thanks for starting this thread David - it's fascinating!

[saltpoint]

81. David, welcome to DU. Your post on AS is noble but I would like to

think that you would have been met with genuine welcome on DU no matter the topic of your post. AS is a relatively new entry into the DSM. It wasn't a possible diagnosis when some of us were younger. I hope you find your path unimpeded in life generally and ESPECIALLY here on the DU boards.

So a warm welcome to you.

[David in Canada]

119. Gee, thanks :-)

Old Crusoe,

Thanks for the warm welcome! It is greatly appreciated. :pals:

The folks here on DU are great! Even before I had the prerequisite posts here to post my own topic, the people here are very warm and caring! :grouphug:

[saltpoint]

132. Well, welcome again, and we'll hope to run into your posts on

these boards from this poitn forward.

:thumbsup: :hi:

[Pharaoh]

82. I have it too!

I just turned 50 and only recently found out that I have asbergers, It certainly is good to be able to put a label on what I have. Life has been very difficult, I believe aspergers is a symptom of our very sick society, we aspies are more sensitive to the emotions of the world.

[David in Canada]

123. Agreed!

Aspies also tend to be conscientious. I first expressed socialist opinions when I was 6 years old and didn't know what socialism was! My dad, who is an old-fashioned WWII Navy veteran, was a bit uncomfortable with it and wondered "who put those silly thoughts in your head". He's an old-school JFK democrat.

[FlaGranny]

83. Hello David,

My grandson has diagnosed Asperger's. He's 10 years old. As I have some of the same symptoms I may have a touch of it myself.

WELCOME. :-)

[David in Canada]

127. Hi!

Hi, FlaGranny! :hi:

I used to live in Florida myself until last year. I'm in Canada now.

Thanks for the welcome! :D

[egadsbrain]

86. This thread is FASCINATING!

Thank you David. :hi:
I've been reading all the posts wanting to respond to at least 6 of them individually! Words & language, animals, art, engineers... I've been fascinated with autism but you've piqued my interest now and it's time to explore. What is your opinion of Dr. Temple Grandin? I'm an "animal person" and wonder if her books are worth reading. Animal rights/animal welfare people joke about our dysfunctional but loving community and I now wonder how many may be "aspies." We get criticized for preferring animals to people (like that's such a bad thing!) but how often is it just a case of being more comfortable in the company of non-human beings because of this syndrome?

[Boomer]

90. I highly recommend Grandin's writings

Her books offer fascinating insight into how she sees the world differently, even thinking differently.

[pnwmom]

116. I've read one of Temple Grandin's books and found it fascinating.

[David in Canada]

131. Yes, it is!

I haven't procured any copy of her books yet, but I have read her essays that I have been able to scavenge for online. Very interesting insights.

I am an animal person. I love cats and dogs. I am companion to one dog and a butler to a cat. :rofl:

I've always said, half-jokingly, that when we compare dogs and cats to humans, we are comitting slander against them! ;-)

Part of the reason, I believe, is that Aspie behaviour and feline behaviour have many paralells. It thrills me to think my brain has evolved to that of a cat. :-)

:toast:

[Rhiannon12866]

87. Hello, David, and welcome to DU.

Thank you for your very courageous and informative post. And JohnKleeb is a friend of mine, and to many on DU, a really amusing and intelligent guy, so I'm glad that you two met up here. K&R, from me.:-)

Rhiannon:hi:

[David in Canada]

134. Hi!

Hi! Thanks for the warm greetings of friendship! :hi:

If you don't mind me asking, are you a Fleetwood Mac fan? If so, is it any relation to your nom-de-plume here on DU?

[Rhiannon12866]

166. You're most welcome!

That was a pretty courageous post to start off with on DU, but you'll find that most of us liberals are a pretty compassionate and welcoming bunch.:toast:

And, yes, I'm a long-time Fleetwood Mac fan, like Stevie Nicks' songs, especially.And Rhiannon was my amazing cat, ans Sara, my dog. I'm also an animal lover, but there are also a lot of us on DU, which you've probably already figured our, LOL!:D

Welcome aboard! It's great to have you with us...:hi:

[David in Canada]

181. Cool!

Thanks again for the greetings! :pals:

[pitohui]

88. welcome!

there was no asperger's in my day, but i was dx'd as a high-functioning autistic, as there was no treatment, i didn't get any, nor do i think i would have wanted any now that i'm older, i'm happy as i am

finding friends and romance is not impossible, indeed, can be easy once you find other nerds who share your obsessions, many of us are a little more to the math/science end of it so not liking math might make it tougher for you, i have to admit you don't go too far in the cliche hang-outs for asperger's such as card-counting or even science fiction fandom w.out stumbling over quite a few who share your challenges and accept you for being a little different

as you say, i'm terrible at reading people and faces, hate the noise of crowds, hate being all gooshy and sentimental and the whole thing of "conveying" affection, what's wrong w. the good old stiff upper lip, i'm a wasp after all! oh, and i do spend a lot of time driving in circles because i get lost a lot

but you know what, that's life, the NTs have problems too and plenty of em from what i see

i believe that finding your obsession is the key to finding true friends -- and i hope you find some friends here also

[David in Canada]

135. Re: Gooshy

Hi, pitohui! Thanks for the greetings of friendship!

I too hate the gooshy stuff. Too much of society focuses on showing feelings and not experiencing them. I'm bad at hugs and stuff like that. I am somewhat comfortable with putting my arm over someone's shoulder when they are grieving.

As to "treatments", most of them are sadistic and end up making things far worse. Sometimes it seems Aspies are living in a Gattaca type existence. :tinfoilhat:

[pitohui]

161. oh yeah i hate real life hugs

the virtual hugs OK but in real life i have to admit i feel funny hugging anyone who is not my sexual partner -- even my mom!

the asperger's/high-functioning autistic treatments i've heard of in recent years just sound pointless, hey if i want a drug to say "i love you man" i think that one is called beer :-)

[lumberjack_jeff]

177. Funny thing is that hug aversion is not universal

My son is very affectionate and cuddly. Of course, if he's occupied reading or playing video games, he's ambivalent :) - but most of the time he likes to curl up on my (or his mom's) lap.

... but he doesn't have a concept of personal space, I've tried to get him in the habit of making eye contact during conversation - with limited success. When I say "look at my eyes (or my face) and tell me what you want" he'll often get practically nose-to-nose with me. That's fine with me, but it's less fine with the school lunch lady. :D

[David in Canada]

186. Hug Aversion

:hi:

Hug aversion is indeed not universal as is any trait for Aspergers. It's a total sum of Asperger's traits with some prerequite traits that makes one an Aspie. Like we say on the Aspie fora, meet an Aspie and you've meet an Aspie. ;)

However, does he like to hug others? Perhaps he has an exception to a close knit circle, i.e. mom and dad. Maybe grandma and/or grandpa as well?

I myself have major eye contact problems, especially when I was younger. It's like someone is flickering a bright flashlight on and off in my eyes. The eye movement and blinking can give me a headache and even squeamish over a long period. I learned to make a quick glance at the eyes every few seconds without the eye-lock.

To this day, I never notice a person's eye colour. When in high school, I had a crush on a girl but I never knew (to this day!) her eye colour.

As to personal space, I use caution and tend to stick my hands in my pockets and not stand to close. No problems thus far.

[Der Blaue Engel]

225. Wow, this thread is totally resonating with me

Not just for my son (mentioned upthread), but myself as well. My entire life I have HATED being hugged, even (or especially) by family members. I don't really like being touched at all, except by a sexual partner. (And even then there are issues.) I've always thought it would be wonderful to have a massage, just for the relaxation of it, but I cannot bear the thought of having someone give one to me. Lol.

And eye contact, too. I tend to look at people's mouths when they talk, and it makes me uncomfortable to have someone look me directly in the eye, even my partner.

I don't even like it when someone steps inside my two- to three-foot personal space.

[David in Canada]

230. Welcome :-)

Hi, Der Blaue Engel! Welcome to the thread! :hi:

I myself am a complete virgin (not even a kiss), so I can't relate to the sexual touching part. Not yet anyways. ;)

I myself cannot have a massage. I get very tense when most people get CLOSE to me! I am also very ticklish and can't have my feet touched.

[Der Blaue Engel]

237. I'm extremely ticklish too

If someone just pokes me lightly anywhere on my torso I pretty much shoot through the roof.

As for sex, I never had a kiss (or a date) before college, myself. The only way I could get past that was with alcohol, unfortunately.

To be fair, my last therapist attributed all of these issues to PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), so it could have nothing at all to do with Asperger's, but it's certainly interesting to read all of these responses and mentally tick things off in my head. :)

[hunter]

308. I used to hit people who touched me, especially if I was startled.

It made me really popular in school.

:sarcasm:

I stopped hitting before I was an adult, which was a good thing.

The very idea of getting a massage of any kind gives me the willies... and don't touch my feet.

I can give and receive hugs just fine now, but it's never been natural.

In middle school I had a teacher who was really big on eye contact, shaking hands, etc. He claimed it was all part of being a "man." Whenever he demanded it of me I used to run away.

[David in Canada]

316. Hi, hunter!

Hi, hunter! :hi:

I agree with you 100% regarding massage and feet. A massage for me would be like torture for me. I also refuse to let anyone touch my feet.

When I used to be touched, I would jump as if touched by Freddie Kruger himself! In elementary school, classmates would mock this trait by yelling "Boo!" as they came up to me. Very traumatising. The only thing worse that that in elementary school were "wet willies" which would freak me out due to my deep aversion to liquid in my ears and my germophobia. I used to refuse to touch dirt when I was 5!

I was and am good at handshakes. A handshake is not creepy to me as long as I can wash my hands thoroughly before eating. In fact, for me, a handshake is a good ersatz hug or embrace. ;)

BTW, I got the "man" speech several times myself.

[Der Blaue Engel]

347. I used to swing out at people who tickled me

or touched me in a ticklish area (most of me). I've pretty much got that under control, but I WILL hit someone if they tickle me and I ask them to stop and they decide that that's just funny and keep going.

[pitohui]

212. oh can't stand eye contact either!

i really don't like making eye contact w. people, to me it is rude and creepy, yikes

[lumberjack_jeff]

216. I recognize that it's a tough skill for people with ASD to master

... but it's quite important for productive social interactions with neurotypical (nt) folks. NTs are hardwired to interpret a darting glance as a sign of dishonesty. Loved ones know better, but the cops, the store security guard and the teachers may not.

My son's teacher has given him several good methods to look like he's making eye contact; look at eyeglass frame, look at eyebrows, bridge of nose, etc. It seems to help a little.

[theobscure]

217. your reference about what cops may think..

Suddenly brought back to mind kind of a traumatic, but in a way funny experience I had back in college.

One of my house mates had his car stolen from in front of our house. When it turned up missing after a weekend night of partying, I told my friend that I thought for sure I had seen it when I came in that night after everyone else. He mentioned that to the cops I guess in terms of trying to figure out a time frame when it was stolen.

Anyway, a few days or a week later, the car turned up in this little town a few hours away from campus, apparently after a chase, but I guess the perpetrator got away some how. When they called my friend to tell him they had found his car, they asked him to bring the guy along who had been the last to have seen it(me). I thought whatever, they must want to ask me some follow up questions.

So I drive him over there to this small Virginia town and before I know it, they've sent my friend out and I am locked in this room with two officers who looked like they were straight out of "Deliverance". They are giving me the business about how they knew I had been the one that had taken it, they recognized me from the chase, and they started pressuring me to confess.

I'm just totally stunned, much like I was on this board last night. Just flabbergasted. I mean the one guy is spitting tobacco on the floor between my feet and they're telling me I'm caught red-handed and all this stuff. Finally, they let my friend in and they tell him their suspicions and he just bursts out laughing, telling them how ridiculous they are. Telling them how I could have just grabbed the keys off his dresser instead of breaking out the driver's side window and that I would have been free to use his car if I wanted to anyway.

Well, they decided to let me go. But I was fingerprinted before I left and was questioned again back at home by the local police where I went to school. All of my friends were also interviewed separately. I was on the verge of having to get a lawyer. But, it all went away as quickly as it started.

I always thought they were just a couple of good ol'boys wanting to have some fun and put a scare into a college kid. But you know, maybe I did act suspiciously. I mean, of course, I denied it right away. But I didn't burst out laughing like my friend did or think to raise the objections that he brought up right away either.

Anyway that cop reference you made, suddenly brought that whole episode rushing back, in a much different context.

[TrogL]

229. Welcome to the Reid Technique

I was subjected to something very similar a number of years ago.

I'm seriously contemplating getting a lawyer and suing because it ended up costing me a LOT of money.

[David in Canada]

231. That's sadistic!

Using that crap is utterly sadistic. :scared:

In Quebec, I don't think that kind of BS is allowed. :mad: ... Oh, I forgot, Canada is HUMANE!

Sorry for the coarse language but this makes me very discomforted.

[David in Canada]

233. My sympathies.

That must have been discomforting! :hug:

I know I would have been so upset and nervous I wouldn't be able to eat nor sleep and would probably be puking. :cry:

Do some people actually get their jollies from making people's lives a living hell, albeit temporary? :protest:

[theobscure]

235. I was definitely freaked out...

My friends were all telling me when I got back from the interrogation and while the "investigation" continued; there was nothing to worry about. Of course, I agreed on some level; but when you've been the target of as much bullying as I had been during my school years, it was a little hard to shrug it off.

[David in Canada]

238. Very true

I find it very hard to shake off my fears or various trauma.

I'd be afraid of being framed. Some police ARE only looking for a conviction...

[lumberjack_jeff]

274. I listened to a talk from a gentleman with autism at advocacy days...

... in olympia a few weeks ago. He told a terrifying story of being detained by the cops while walking along the street near a crime scene. "Up against the car!" Gun drawn, the whole bit.

Luckily, the Chief of police knew him and explained it to the officer.

I had a cool brochure for policemen that I distributed to my police friends a while back. It was similar to this; http://www.inlv.demon.nl/avunsi/

[David in Canada]

280. That's terrifying!

Hi, Jeff! :hi:

That's terrifying! :scared:

It's a good thing he knew the police chief. Nonetheless, he must still have PTSD from the trauma!

It is disgusting that police officers will do that to an innocent person because they're different! :mad:

Aspies/Auties tend to be oblivious to danger and unusual situations. That probably is a major factor in our 'reclusive' tendencies. It is just a protective instinct, methinks.

BTW, thanks for the link. :toast:



Edited due to emoticon problems.

[lumberjack_jeff]

335. I'm sure it was horrifying, but don't be too hard on the cops

Watching this fellow for a few minutes would easily give you the misimpression that he was on drugs. His speech was very hard to follow, his coordination is poor and his disproportionate distress at the situation led a cop with a limited knowledge of developmental disabilities to suspect that he was a bad guy. Compounding the matter, people with autism have a very difficult time answering complex and figurative questions. "What do you think you're doing? Are you on some kinda drugs? Turn around! no! turn around and face me! What are you, some kind of smart alec?".

Perhaps you can understand why what should be a simple interaction can degenerate into a debacle. The speaker made the observation that the key is educating the officers, and letting him/her know "I have autism, here's my card" early on.

[David in Canada]

344. That is true!

Hi, Jeff! :hi:

I have had a few mundane interactions turn into someone being rubbed the wrong way. So I can relate to it!

Of course, it just makes me act more stiff. I figure as long as I don't joke or try to act "cool" i'm OK.

[Kailassa]

356. I hate being asked "how are you?"

Most people don't seem to realise how complex an honest answer to that would be,
and I doubt they want to know the details. So I just say I'm fine, and then if someone hears I was sick, I get in trouble for lying.

Even worse is "wasup?" Puzzling over that seems to short-circuit my brain, I have never managed to answer it yet.

But if someone asks about nutrition, politics, cats, or the card-game magic, I can still be talking after they've got bored and gone home. ;-)

[David in Canada]

361. I understand!

Hi, Kailassa! :hi:

I understand completely. I kind of found out early on that "How are you" is a rhetorical question more than anything else. Sort of like Hello, Part II :rofl:

I figured it out after I saw it in the movies when younger and finding a disconnect between wanting to find out the general condition of someone and walking away before they really answered, I asked my mother and she answered. I noticed it and found out via logic. ;)

As to "wasup" or as it's usually prononced "waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzauuuuhhhpp" over a 15 second time frame, I find it to be rather vulgar and on my nerves. If I remember correctly , it's a modern version of "What's up?" which is a euphemism for "Who's dead?" The up itself being a euphemism for heaven or a positive afterlife.

Sorry for the tangent. :)

Anyway, I myself can talk for nearly an eternity if engaged in my favoured topics. :D

[David in Canada]

223. True...

Hi, again, lumberjack_jeff! :hi:

I know about that. Police especially. Aspies tend to be prone to mishaps with police officers. More likely to get tasered.

That's why I intend to get a formal diagnosis. It will be something I could use it court to put my behaviour into perspective.

[David in Canada]

222. Agreed!

It makes me want to squirm merely thinking about it. :)

In Native American and Asian cultures, it is considered borish behaviour. Asian cultures such as Japan view it as intimidation, which it is for me.

[David in Canada]

182. I agree!

pitohui, we are alike although I can hug my mom and a very few select persons.

Regarding the beer comment, you got that one right on the tee. :rofl:

[David in Canada]

136. Dupe..

Sorry, my apologies. :)

[Odin2005]

89. Aspie here.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

I definitely fitted Hans Asperger's label "Little proffesor" when I was a kid.

[David in Canada]

137. So did I!

Hi, Odin2005! Thanks for the warm welcome! :hi:

I fit the "little professor" label myself. I memorised all presidents, Washington to Reagan at age 5 when in kindergarten. I only started following all the senators and representatives at age 11, however. ;)

[bobbieinok]

98. thanks to all participating in this thread...I 1st heard of Asperger's

from reading posts at DU

[David in Canada]

138. Cool!

Hi, bobbieinok! :hi:

I'm glad we could be conductive to expanding your worldview. :)

DU is a great site with great info and great folks! :grouphug:

[maveric]

101. I have it. Self diagnosed.

I fit every symptom. Plus I stutter.
You can count my friends on my lefthand. I was married for 18 years but that went south, so I'm alone now and probably will be forever.

[David in Canada]

139. My sympathies

Hi, maveric!

I know all about the friends part.

Can't relate to relationships though. I'm 24 years old. No girlfriend, no kisses, no dates. :cry:

I hate to open old wounds, but I have heard divorce is sheer torture for Aspies and can cause a long-term rut. :hug:

[maveric]

142. Eight years and it still hurts.

Since then I've struck out on three potential relationships. I'm just too detatched.
Is there a dating group for Aspies? Would it be a good idea for two Aspies to be in a relationship?
I'm turning 50 next month and will soon "turn the corner".

[lumberjack_jeff]

154. I recommend getting touch with your local chapter of The ARC.

I guarantee that you'll meet people who are understanding of the syndrome.

[AnnieBW]

110. Welcome!

Welcome, David! My niece is an Aspie, too. And my husband suspects that he is. And don't worry. As long as you're not a trolling Freeper, we won't bully you! :D

[David in Canada]

140. Thanks :)

Hi, AnnieBW! Thanks for the warm welcome! :hi: You guys are great. :pals:

Is it frustrating or nerve-wracking dealing with a (possible/probable) Aspie spouse? Aspies and NT's can really cause tension unknowingly on the other. If I am getting too personal, please let me know :)

I've heard that Aspies tend to go well with either other Aspies, bipolar people and/or sympathetic extroverts. Often, though when two Aspies reproduce, the odds of a full-scale autism child skyrockets. If anyone heard differently, please let me know. Any knowledge and insight is most welcome! :think:

[Snotcicles]

111. David, your in good company Dan Akroyd has Asperger's n/t

[Wheezy]

122. Hi David,

I found this website ( http://www.gettingthetruthout.org/ ) to be really informative. Have you seen it? (my apologies if it's been posted already in this thread -- I don't have time at the moment to read through all the responses so far but I didn't want to forget)

I encourage everyone to read it -- I think a lot of readers will come away with a new, different perspective and understanding of Autism and Asperger's. Be sure to read past the 11th page -- they are very short pages. It's really an eye-opener.

http://www.gettingthetruthout.org/

[David in Canada]

141. Thank you so much!

Hi, Wheezy!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! :toast:

This site is really informative. I greatly appreciate the info! :thumbsup:

[faithnotgreed]

124. hi david - glad youre here. my partner of 11 years has aspergers

so i will attempt to address your question of romantic relationship

yes i have to acknowledge that in MY situation sustaining this longterm romantic relationship has been consistently difficult. i have wanted to give up but thankfully that feeling hasnt lasted long
most importantly i want to encourage you that it is very possible to have your own loving relationship. i dont count anyone out of some form of real and meaningful connection with another person especially when that is what they want in their life

if youre interested in discussing this any further or want to ask anything please feel free
i have a lot of experience and would be happy to pass along anything that may be able to possibly help you with relating to others. it has been a trip thats for sure but a beautiful and rewarding one. communication has been the real struggle but then again most people dont have communication skills they should

theres so much to share but here is a little bit
one thing that has helped is that i try to keep in mind that olivia is ALWAYS sincere. never met anyone so earnest, naive and so dear. but it is a consistent struggle - even after all this time - to meet in that happy medium place for us both. and one thing she has learned to do is make sure she has communicated her real feelings. being in touch with feelings and "what do i want" dont come naturally. she has had to think on that which comes naturally for many of us.
for a long time (when we had a disagreement) the routine became she went away to think through what her feelings were and then come back and talk to me later when she had realized what she was really feeling so i could get a handle on what the dilemma actually was.

i have to give her a tremendous amount of credit because she has come a long long way in the time i have known her. she doesnt like conflict and was taught growing up not to express her feelings so it all the more has been a tough situation but she has worked hard to get in touch with herself and communicate that. in fact just this past year she has been praised multiple times by her boss for her good communication skills~~ how ironic that has been but its true. she really is a role model now at 33 years old and im very proud of her.

i met her when she was just about your age so just please know that so much is possible. even without aspergers we are usually different people in our early 20s than we are in our 30s and beyond.

again were glad youre here and look forward to seeing you around. i bet youre a sweet sweet young man and the world can use many more just like you

on edit: and another amazing quality that you have is that you are aware of this. aware of yourself. what i wouldnt have given that olivia would have known about this for herself when we met. it was years before we understood what was going on. it doesnt take away the fact but it has made it much easier to deal with in our own relationship let alone others that she meets or works for etc

[spooky3]

125. Welcome, David, I have a close relative with AS.

He's faced the same challenges that you've described. And is one of the sweetest people in the world.

[David in Canada]

144. Hi, spooky3!

Thanks for the warm greetings! :hi:

We tend to rather nice people. However, if bullied or teased, we may storm off in a huff. However, I have NEVER gotten in a fight and never assaulted anyone and no one was harmed by my hand. I am proud of that fact. VIolence just isn't worth it!

Even when a child of perhaps 5 years old, I was polite and never caused any problems. I tended to be regarded as rather stiff. I preferred to refer to my fellow classmates as Mister or Miss followed by surname. I am very uncomfortable referring to people by first name unless that grant me express permission beforehand.

[1monster]

128. My stepson has never been officially diagnosed with Auspergers Syndrome,

however, was tested when he was about three or four years old and had eleven of the fourteen markers for Autism.

Auspergers is a shadow syndrome of Autism. It is similar, but is not as severe.

Auspergers is a recently recognized syndrome. Not quite ten years ago, having just read about it in NEWSWEEK magazine, I asked a prominent psychologist who was giving a lecture that I attended about the viability of that diagnosis for my stepson. He had never even heard of it. Neither had the psychologist who counciled my stepson for a periods over five years.

(He was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder, but from my studies of that problem, the diagnosis wasn't even close.)

His case was complicated by other disabilites, hearing impairment and low (but rising) I.Q.

At age nineteen, we were being urged to institutionalize him. At twenty-nine, I have hopes that by the time we are no longer able to look after him, he will be able to live either on his own, or with minimal assistance.

In his teens, he was unable to communicate much more than a toddler. Today there are still times when he has trouble understanding what is said to him or in expressing himself, but he has come a very long way and most people are surprised to learn of his disabilities.

Being aware of the difficulties caused by Auspergers and having the ability to communicate (at least in the written word), you can mitigate some of the problems caused by the Auspergers. Good luck.

On a side note, I wonder about the rise in Autism and the newly recognized Auspergers, I wonder about the causes and that of the ever rising cases of ADD and ADHD. Many cases of Autism are blamed on the mercury content of required immunizations. Does your group ever discuss the causes of Auspergers?

[David in Canada]

145. AS and Autism

Aspergers's Syndrome and more precisely, High-Functioning Autism are differentiated from 'classic' Autism (Kanner's autism) by the fact that AS and HFA have no marked delay in intellectual development. That's the main differential and the litmus test between Asperger's and Kanner's.

[1monster]

148. The hearing impairment is likely a big part of his delay in intellectual

development. Long story involved, but. He had no audio stimulation because of the hearing impairment and very little visual stimulation for reasons I won't go into.

The hearing impairment was not discovered until he was two years old. His first and primary language was American Sign Language. Then when he was five, his mother mainstreamed him into regular school where sign language was not used at all.

It was a nightmare for him what with not being able to understand the spoken word very well and with being bullied due to the bilateral hearing aids and just being different.

His I.Q. and his communication skills rose dramatically when we placed him into a school for the deaf and he relearned sign language. He finally had a point of reference and was able to communicate in both spoken and sign languages.

I have not heard of Kanner's Autism before. I'll look it up tonight. Thanks for the tip.

[David in Canada]

188. Kanner & Asperger

Hi, 1monster! :hi:

Aspies are very reluctant to change. When the envionment they are acustommed to is turned up on it's head, their entire direction is lost.

Bullies really are horrible. I wonder if they are just reflecting the prejudices of society in general?

One astute Aspie said that almost all Aspies are first "diagnosed" by the schoolyard bully. I consider that an astute observation.

Kanner's autism is named after Dr. Leo Kanner, who discovered the autism most Americans know of today. He and Asperger wrote their papers in the same time-frame but Asperger's findings fell by the wayside. Kanner had immigrated to America and was fluent in English so his papers were more widely distibuted and as such, accepted earlier. Meanwhile, Asperger's findings were hampered by the fact that he only knew German compounded with the fact he published in 1944 at the height of World War II in Vienna, then part of Nazi Germany. After the war, almost all scientific data published during that time was ridiculed and basically ignored.

[Olney Blue]

143. Hi David- welcome to DU!

I like you already, and I'm looking forward to seeing you around.

[David in Canada]

146. Thanks :)

Hi, Olney Blue! :hi: Thanks for the tidings of welcome and friendship! :pals:

I feel likewise. Look forward on many interesting discussions and even friendly debates in the future. :)

:party: It's my 100th post anniversary! :party:

[theobscure]

147. I am sitting here in astonishment

I am 38 years old and have been on disability for chronic depression and anxiety for the last 4 years after an entire adulthood of struggle. I've been to psychiatrists, psychologists, and counselors and have tried about every anti-depressant out there. I have never heard of this and have never seen anyone draw correlations to so many of the seemingly unrelated things wrong with me that I have hated myself for my entire life.

I was in AP English and History but have always struggled with math and science.
I have zero mechanical aptitude
I am so obtuse when it comes to many matters of common sense
I have zero sense of direction and am always having to wonder around parking lots looking for my car
I have always had trouble understanding people and relating to them and was always accused of forcing people to spell things out for me instead of being sensitive enough to know what they mean.
I have always had people angry at me for reasons I never understood. Peoples opinions and treatment of me would inexplicably change suddenly for the worst.
People have always accused me of dissing them or failing to acknowledge them when they would see me somewhere and they'd say it wasn't possible that I couldn't have seen or recognized them.
I have always been oblivious to reading people's body language
I have always felt detached in relation to other people, never feeling in the moment or fully part of what was going on or being said
I have always felt uncomfortable around people and hated crowds
I have never had a serious romantic relationship and feel extremely uncomfortable with intimacy.
Things like hearing a baby cry in a store often makes me just leave even with a full grocery cart.
I have terrible spatial skills regarding what lid fits on what pot or whatever.
Multi-tasking is impossible for me. I obsess on one thing and can't move on to another.
I am extremely impatient with myself and others.
I am tone deaf, no artistic skills, and have extremely poor penmanship
I was born with a severe lisp that took me until half way through high school to mitigate to a syballant "s"
The list goes on.

I haven't socialized or had any real friends since college. I've just felt like an alien, a freak of nature. An unlucky result of the unlikely concurrence of so many separate glaring deficiencies showing up in one person. I really have considered myself a one of a kind anomaly.

Thanks for this thread. I don't really know what to do from here or if anything can be done. But this gives me something to think about and look into.

[blitzen]

150. My 9 year-old son is an Aspie

he's doing really well...a bit obsessive at times (his latest thing is studying Turkish) but all in all a happy guy who has learned how to make some friends

[David in Canada]

219. Cool!

Hi, Blitzen! :hi:

Does your son know other foreign languages? If so, how many? Which ones? :)

I'm currently learning French as I am in Quebec. :)

[renate]

152. I'm so glad you found this thread

I'm also really touched by reading your post, and am so sorry for the difficulties that you've had. It always absolutely breaks my heart when I hear or read of somebody hating themselves. There's nothing sadder.

I hope it's reassuring and helpful to you to have a possible label for what you're dealing with. It makes such a difference, not just in terms of figuring out what tools you can use but also just so you know you're not a "freak of nature" after all.

I noticed you said that you feel uncomfortable with intimacy, but I hope a :hug: over the Internet isn't too much.

[faithnotgreed]

156. oh obscure - how i wish i could give you a hug

though you may not want that type of intimacy so can i send you a hug and a smile (ha)

what you have endured.....
im so glad youre here and hope you will post much more often (i dont know that ive seen you around but i look forward to it)

as i mention upthread my partner of 11 years has aspergers though that is one diagnosis along the "autism spectrum" so i will say just in case that aspergers is not the only possible diagnosis since there are many variables
nor just one way of treating or dealing with whatever it is you are living with

but its very real as you well know
again im glad youre here and hope you are able to find community. there are lots of online groups and by the sound of it you will find that you are very much not alone

never are you alone.....

[theobscure]

158. thank you both for the kind words..to be honest I'm kind of in a fog

right now and sick to my stomach at the same time. Just another example of how oblivious I am. I've done alot of reading and put myself on extreme diets and taken all kinds of herbs but never heard the slightest thing about this.

I've told Doctors over and over again that the anti-depressant medication was pointless. My depression was a natural outgrowth of the disadvantages of being so insufficient and lacking in so many areas across the board and the burden of guilt and self-loathing I've put on myself because of them. None of them ever said a word to me about this or autism or anything other than that I was lazy, that I was too thin skinned, or that I "needed to get over myself" and do the best I can with what I have.

I used to pull my hair out when I'd try to make people understand. They would tell me over and over again about all the people less fortunate than I. "Be thankful you're not a starving child in Africa, be thankful you're not mentally retarded, be thankful you can walk."

I would agree with them and try to explain that it's those very facts which I full well realized that only served to exasperate things for me. Not being able to rise above things less than what other people go through and rise above, only served to add to my self-loathing. But I could never get anyone to understand how frustrating and debilitating it was to be so hamstrung in so many ways.

I'd always try to explain it was like having no foundation to my being. Not having anything to build on. No place to start. Completely adrift. I'd latch on to some plan or idea to get my life going and think non-stop, night and day about it, invigorated, hopeful that I had found my bearings. Then, I'd wake up one morning or even just in the next moment, it would be gone. The whole thing would be dead to me. It would make me sick to even think about it. All the time and money invested (like in going back to school), wasted. No one ever said they understood.

If they didn't tell me one of the things above, they looked at me like I was crazy and wrote out another prescription for the latest anti-depressant, until a few years ago I gave up on them and their pills (which for years I had refused to try to begin with). I didn't think it was possible I could feel more disdain for them than I did already.

But how could I be so damn obtuse myself. Everything I've read and never stumbled across this. I think I'm going to go be sick.

[pitohui]

160. don't be so hard on yourself

the diagnosis of asperger's has not been identified for all that long, it was not available for you when you were younger

when i was a child, even tho i basically did not speak until puberty, my parents esp. my mom were angry that i was dx'd as a high functioning autistic and they basically rejected the diagnosis, as did i, it was complicated because i was a classic funny looking kid yet it wouldn't have worked to class me w. the other FLKs in the school district who had intellectual deficits and the school system agreed, "just think of her as emotionally retarded," well ain't that nice!

so we fumble around and do the best we can w. the labels we have

don't blame yourself for not knowing what you could not have known

on another note, i do not see the benefits of anti-depressants because i am not depressed, however, there are other asperger's here who are depressed and report great benefit from medication, you do what is right for you and if the pills are helping take em, if they are harming get away from em

don't blame yourself for being "obtuse," we have the strange gift of living at a turning point in time


went thru a LOT of what you describe w. wacky diets, even eating disorders in my case, herbs, all that blah blah, don't blame yourself, you were and are a seeker, to seek is to risk being wrong

to risk being wrong is courageous

you are the hero of your own story, you just don't know it yet

[faithnotgreed]

163. very sweet encouragement pitohui

thank you so much for such kindness
clearly you know of what you speak and im sorry for all you have endured

you are right - this is relatively recently being diagnosed instead of the variety of painful ways society treats those who are different

im glad youre here
you have a lot to give and to teach and thats a beautiful thing

[theobscure]

164. thanks...guess I feel a mixture of embarrassment and relief

I'm certainly glad I happened to click on this thread for some reason even though I had no idea what it was about. I really have felt for all these years like a human anomaly. It's going to take awhile to sink in. Of course, I've heard of autism, but I guess all the mainstream attention to the topic is regarding extreme cases, so I never made any connection to it regarding myself.

I refused for years to take anti-depressants even though I'd go for extended periods of deep depression starting with an episode between my junior and senior years of college. I just never believed the medication would do me any good.

Finally, after years on the depression roller coaster, quiting job after job, the next one more menial and difficult to come by than the next, depression became a permanent and constant state. I was convinced by my family to apply for disability. I felt at that point I owed it to society to try the medication and I've tried them all. The only thing I've gotten is a two month hospital stay after an acute pancreatitis attack. So, that was enough of that.

Maybe it's possible this will be a starting point to coming to some real understanding about myself and reach some level of acceptance. Maybe there still is some way I can be a productive member of society and don't have to feel that the only thing worthwhile I'll ever do is not to spread my genes to another generation.

Thanks again to the person that started this thread and to those of you who have commented.

[faithnotgreed]

162. .... stunning what you have shared here

i cannot even imagine and wont insult you by even trying to guess

but i can say that much of what you say - in a broad view - rings roughly similar to what my partner has endured though definitely not anything to the extent as you

she also has felt pushed adrift, having no idea why she couldnt be understood and why she was made to feel as though she was being difficult or had no worth, often not feeling connected to her body or mind etc etc
to the small extent i can i do have at least a little exposure to this through her

she is now in her early 30s and its only been in the past couple years that she has really been able to come out of her fog
she has worked very hard at it and was only really introduced to her autism spectrum about 4 years ago. it takes time and of course we read everything we could get our hands on but it will start coming into focus as you learn of others and the possibilities in life
good for you for stopping the "doctors". some are as poisonous as any medication (not all are of course but the road to finding the right one can be incredibly painful)

just in case no one has mentioned this to you yet: donna williams has the most amazing series of books based on her life with autism
very difficult to read for us "outsiders" because its at times quite harrowing and disturbing but manna for those who have been made to feel they are the problem

her first one is titled "nobody nowhere" followed by "somebody somewhere" and she has more recently written a couple more as her life goes along but the ones i mentioned lay out her autobiography

and you may also know of temple grandin. another woman with autism who has been instrumental in changing cattle/animal containment. as others like her she has a deep affinity for animals and she expresses this - and is her lifes work - to change this technical and difficult field dominated by men.

hope that wasnt too much information.
i dont know where you live but at the very least i am confident you can find an online community.

youre saying you feel leveled right now which is very understandable. this is your life and it has heretofore not fit in this world but i am telling you that you have a very powerful place in this world and an inherent right to reclaim your life

please take very good care obscure and please talk to us whenever you feel you can
we want very much for you to know you are loved and there are a great many of us rooting for you and here for you if you ever need anything

you matter a great deal

[theobscure]

165. thanks again...will definitely check out the books you suggest n/t

[EFerrari]

179. HI there, theobscure. That's my husband's story.

Really, I was just flabbergasted at how badly he was handled by so many smart people in the medical profession. And it was infinitely frustrating for him.

I finally went on line and found the information myself, shared it with him and set about find appropriate medicos. That's pretty daunting, considering that my degree is in English.

Whatever.

:hi:

[theobscure]

209. hello ....I understand full well what your husband went through...

I understand that people have been helped psychologically by medications (including in my own family) and I'm sure by therapy. It did nothing for me though than make me more cynical and distrustful of people.

We basically have a preschool level of understanding regarding how the mind works. I equate these medications to pulling the lever on a slot machine. Yes, some will hit the jackpot on getting their mind rewired; but most will go home losers.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I always had these feelings about medications and the mental health profession. It wasn't until I went on disability that I felt obligated to give it a try. I always tried to explain to all of them that "I was depressed because of who I am, not who I am because I am depressed." Depression was just one of the symptoms; I had no idea for what, and neither, apparently, did they.

All I got for trying to help them, help me, was blank stares, admonishments for not being open minded to treatment, indignation for questioning their expertise, accused of not really wanting to get better, and finally invitations to go find treatment somewhere else.

People who choose psychological treatment and to take the medications should go into it with their eyes wide open and their blinders of faith, off. I never put a pill in my mouth that they gave me, and they gave me plenty, until I got to my computer and could read up on the risks. Once, I discovered that the "sleeping aid" a psychiatrist had given to me to try was actually an anti-psychotic medication. An interesting choice, to say the least, since I've never for a second heard a voice in my head other than my own; nor have I ever even momentarily lost sight of reality. In fact, I find reality all to real. Another psychiatrist gave me Wellbutrin under the guise of energy pills.


That's great of you that you were able to take it upon yourself to find out the info. your husband needed. This is the thing that still has me shaking my head today. I did tons of independent, obviously misdirected, research to try and find answers for myself. Every time a doctor used a term or phrase that he/she thought relevant to my situation I went right home and got on the computer and looked in to it, always ending up disappointed when it was clear they were going down the wrong path. Not once did Asperger's or autism come up; nor did anything else that indirectly led me to this conclusion.

[David in Canada]

272. I can relate to a lot of it...

Telling an Aspie to "snap out of it" is like commanding a deaf person to sing on cue!

[David in Canada]

197. OMG!

Hi, theobtuse! :hi:

Your description is like a carbon copy of mine except for the tone deafness.

I have a slight speech impediment as well. I have a trouble pronouncing the letter "H". When I was a kid, i'd pronounce "hat" as "yatt".

I also pronounce "S" as "SHH" almost like German. Many people used to ask me, "are you German?" or "are you Russian".

[theobscure]

211. Thank you David for starting the thread

It's been a wild 24 hours for me. I'm kind of at a loss right now about what to do. But it is quite the relief to no longer have to believe that I am a one of a kind genetic anomaly. Whether this discovery will make any real difference in my life, I guess will have to play out over time.

I'm extremely hesitant about mental health practitioners, due to past experience; but I've emailed two of the closest listed on an Asperger's website asking for feedback about whether something can be gained from returning to therapy in the context of having a better handle of what the root causes of my problems are. I haven't heard anything back yet. Maybe they'll just think I'm trying to get some free medical advice from them.

It's more likely, however, I'll be trying to sort through and assimilate all this on my own though. Anyway, thanks again for the awakening and best wishes on your future.

[lumberjack_jeff]

206. You may be interested in this quiz

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

[theobscure]

214. thanks I took it...

This is what I scored for whatever it's worth:

137- aspie score
24 - neurotypical score

[lumberjack_jeff]

215. Me

69 aspie
61 neurotypical

[TrogL]

232. Aspie - 151

and I was answering conservatively

[David in Canada]

240. Me too.

I always tend to answer questions conservatively, even when it regards, say, the level of sickness I feel. I always give the minimum illness I have so I only state what I am sure of.

[David in Canada]

239. Thanks

Hi, Jeff! :hi:

Thanks for the link. :) I took the test awhile back. The lady who helped code it for the net is on one of the Aspie lists I frequent. :)

My score. I kept it archived:

Aspie-Quiz

Version III
Thank you for filling out this questionnaire.

Your Aspie score: 132
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 61
You are very likely an Aspie

[XemaSab]

261. 132/92

Good times, good times.

[nonconformist]

391. Great quiz!

I scored:

Your Aspie score: 72
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 155

But I didn't think I was an Aspie anyway... I have other issues! But as I was reading the questions and taking the quiz, I'm more convinced than ever that it's very likely that my son is an Aspie.

[David in Canada]

224. OMG...

Glad to make your acquaintance, theobscure! :toast:

Most of what was on your checklist is me! I'd say that's 90% me as well! You have my sympathies! :hug:

[babydollhead]

358. I like you

here's my list
I am affected by color and pattern.
Beauty in nature takes my breath away.
I can't make plans.
I get mad when people get hurt.
I have to leave stores when babiea/kids are crying, because I feel so sorry for them. once, I heard this kid repeating, I don't want to be a bad boy.

[David in Canada]

363. Hi!

Hi, babydollhead! :hi:

I agree with a lot of your statements, especially inability to make plans. I tend to basically wing stuff.

I especially hate making reservations and appointments because I don't know how i'll be feeling healthwise that day. I prefer to go somewhere or eat somewhere spontaneously.

I am also prone to forget appointments as the days and hours tend to fade in my mind quickly.

[sendero]

149. I took an online test once..

.... and scored a "32" which was deemed "borderline". I definitely don't fit all the criteria, but the pendatic speech, one-track-mind, difficulty in breaking routine, and a few others certainly ring true.

In my case I have found all of these "symptoms" to have moderated as I aged. I might not really be an AS, but it would explain a few things :)

In any event, I believe that understanding yourself is the key to solving a lot of problems. A person who has these flavors of problems is much better off having an understanding of them IMHO.

[David in Canada]

242. AQ Test?

What you are likely describing is the AQ test, developed by Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen.

I scored a 41 out of 50, with 50 being the highest score and 0 being the theoretical lowest. A real extrovert, for example, Bill Clinton, would definately score in single digits.

For those interested, test can be found here. :)

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

[theobscure]

246. thanks...these are interesting tests...don't really know what to make of

them though.. I scored 38. So I scored "lower" on this one than you; but I think on that other one posted here, I scored higher. I guess it's kind of ambiguous and about being in a certain range.

[David in Canada]

251. Basically...

It's basically about range and categorisation.

Apparently, you are more "severe" in some areas and I in others. :D

[sendero]

380. The test..

.... was very similar to this test, if not this test exactly.

[Feron]

151. Another Aspie here :-)

Welcome to DU!!
Here is my favorite site:
http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/

It has many resources that you hopefully will find useful. :)

[David in Canada]

243. Greetings!

Hi, Feron! :hi:

Glad to meet you! Thanks for the link and the warm comraderie. :toast:

[Kailassa]

153. Hi David, thanks for starting a fascinating thread.

It makes me feel at home to read what everyone here has to say.

My asperger son is turning 24 next weekend he's a wonderful kid. I was thrilled when I realized I had a "normal" son. I grew up in a family where so many immediate family and relatives had aspergers, that I see neurotypicals as weird. I mean, who wants to go looking in peoples' eyes and playing contact sports and wearing prickly clothing anyway? Happiness is free time alone to research a favourite topic, and a few online friends to quietly share it with.

I've had relationships. When I was younger they were easier, because I had no idea of closeness anyway, except for sex, so emotions didn't come into it much. Now I'm older I get more emotional and want to communicate, but the effort is painful, and I'm often left wondering what I'm meant to do in a relationship and what things mean. I've had a sweet partner for a few years, but it's not been easy for either of us.

My most aspergerish brother married a girl with aspergers, and they seem to be happy together, even though most people seeing them together at the family dinner table would think they didn't know each other. They had one son who is high functioning autistic, an incredibly brilliant boy, an above average son with aspergers who can pass as a twin to my own son, and a daughter who would hate to admit she shares many of her family's traits.

I've often thought my son was a cat. He gets very depressed sometimes and feels he is no use to the world. I've pointed out that his much adored cat doesn't achieve anything in particular, yet the world is definitely better for Apollo's presence. Both Apollo and my son are very warm and loving, they just don't communicate that by smiling and cuddling.

My favourite things about aspies are their sincerity and intelligence and their ability to be quiet. Except for my son when he's in his sixth hour of lecturing me on one topic, and still gets hurt when I make him shut up for a while. I don't think any aspie can lie without a big effort, and from an aspie point of view lying rarely makes sense anyway.

He's been singing for a few years now, and that has taught him to modulate his voice. At first it all had to be done to Singstar, with him trying to force his voice to go up and down in accordance with the bars, and it was all about getting a high score. I knew he could sing well, because he was in the Victorian Boys Choir until they put him on stage. At that age, when he got bored he'd go into a sort of trance and helicopter, and, as he was in the centre of the back row, standing on tiered benches, he sent all the other kids flying. Later they had to walk up stairs you could see through, and he couldn't do that, and I got terribly yelled at for not telling the choir organizers there was "something wrong with him."

Well of course I hadn't, there's nothing wrong with him. Anyone who gave a damn about children would have allowed for the fact that kids are all different, and not assumed they would all be robotic mannequins.

He's now singing quite well, his voice can be really beautiful, and his sister takes him to karaoke nights. He loves singing on stage now, but he prefers the very quiet nights when the place is almost empty.

[David in Canada]

279. Greetings!

Hi, Kailassa! :hi:

I'm 24-years-old as well. It is a tough age for Aspies. :hug:

I have already stated my aversion to eye contact, but I very much dislike sports. I am just bored senseless by it. I have my own theory that sports are covertly pushed on the public by governments to distract them from corruption and abuse of power as well as as condition them for animosity towards others not like themselves such as opposing nations. I know it doesn't apply to every sports afficionado, but I think there might be a correlation between die-hard sports fans and rampant nationalism and xenophobia.

Regarding clothing, I don't care much for fashion and will only wear what is comfortable. I'd rather wear a comfortable pink tee-shirt than an uncomfortable "manly" tee-shirt, if forced between such a radical choice. If I am in uncomfortable clothing, I cannot concentrate and become very agitated and grumpy. The extent of the discomfort correlates in the amount of time I can tolerate it before becoming grumpy.

As my me, I am a virgin without so much as a date or a kiss. :cry: I desperately want a girlfriend, but it seems it is incumbent on the male to make the first move. I am so frightened to ask a girl out. I know it's irrational but my heart feels like it's about to explode just anticipating it.

I often see my personality traits as very similar to our feline comrades. We have the same mindset and inborn curiousity. When I see human cruelty, I jokeingly state that I want to resign my membership in the human race and apply for feline species membership. :P I just hope I can rise to the high standard required to be a feline. :rofl:

Aspies do indeed tend to be honest and considerate, at least emotionally. My one track mind sometimes makes me forget simple tasks, like getting milk from the store. I can be sent for say, milk, be given a litany of secondary tasks to do, do them all but forget the milk. :silly:

I too can go off in a serious tangent. I can talk about my interests all day. However, talk about say beutification can bore me to tears. I am bored about houses and home accessories and the like. When I was a kid, I thought Home Depot was Hell. :D

Regarding voice modulation. I myself have that problem. I have a tendency to talk loud, as if making a stump speech. I speak from my diaphragm. People tend to think I am angry or upset and am perplexed when they ask if i'm OK. I have to consciously remember to speak lower. If I get excited in a topic, I tend to go back into my default mode.

I have terrible posture problems and unless conscious of it, I tend to slouch a bit. Straight posture is very painful after awhile.

I have a phobia of heights. I feel, irrationally, that the rail will fall and i'll tumble to the ground. It is still a real fear, albeit the reasons are asinine in nature. I myself cannot walk see-through stairs. I am also freaked-out over see-through elevators. I never no on rollercoasters, either for that same reason.

Hope to see you around! ;)

[Kailassa]

325. I wanted my son to say hello to you,

but I figured you'd understand his response.
"I can't chat to strangers."

But I'm sure he'll learn to, eventually. It just takes some courage to start. I'm glad you did.

He can't go in a see-through elevator either unless I'm with him, but he can manage high slides and see-through stars if he has someone to be with. I spent hours one day carrying him up and down some stairs that frightened him until he got used to them, and did the same with high slides. A woman running a huge slide at a fair realized what I was doing, and let me take him on free all afternoon.
He ended up loving it. Now his Aspie cousin is helping him get over his fears of motorbike riding.

I'm the opposite, I scared the daylights out of my forest-ranger father when I was 8 by climbing a 60' fire tower which was just a cabin perched on a huge tree trunk, with one spike every 3 feet to use as a ladder. I never understood, as a kid, why people got upset at me for climbing things, it was not as if I was going to let go and fall off. I had close shaves, but the possibility of dying never worried me. It's funny how a mother and son who are so alike in many ways can be so opposite in others.

Regarding cruelty, our cat can be cruel to mice he catches, but he doesn't know he is. He wants to play with them forever, and gets so sad when they die. He (apollo) used to put the dead ones into my bed, I think he was hoping they'd wake up again. He's huge and long-legged and strong, but very gentle with us.

Re your voice ... well, it helps if you can talk nicely when you pick up ;-) ... I really suggest you sing whenever you are alone or in the shower. Check-out girls have been the best place for Daimos to start talking to girls, making sure he looks in their eyes and says hello when they serve him. But we have particularly nice check-out girls in the local supermarket. A few other girls have been pretty cruel, but that's life.

The Aspies I know make good patient teachers, and that seems to be the easiest way for them to start getting to know girls. Girls often find computers and video games intimidating, and they are things Aspies tend to be at home with. ;-)

You'll find a girl without too much trouble, and I'm sure you'll treat her well. But remember, Aspies can be seen as soft, watch that you don't end up with a girl who is out to use you, you deserve love and respect.

[David in Canada]

342. Thanks :-)

Hi, Kailassa! :hi:

I appreciate the advice warm, uplifting words of encouragement. They are most appreciated! :hug:

[lumberjack_jeff]

155. Thanks again for the thread David. I want to thank everyone else too...

... as I mentioned, my son has high-function autism, and I know that he's going to be okay, but reading the words of so many of you whom I really respect, who I never knew were on the spectrum is validating.

Thanks for making a dad a little more optimistic. :)

[cal04]

157. Hi David. Thank you so much for this post

I am very happy to meet you. I have been working with children for 20 years as a teacher aide and have a son with ADHD
I love getting up every morning to go to work. The kids make me smile everyday.
I want to thank you for the site also, as eventhough we are in the classroom with the kids, we aren't told very much. Welcome to DU

[David in Canada]

244. Thanks, cal04!

Hi, cal04! :hi:

It is great to meet you. I really appreciate the warm welcome from all the nice folks here :)

[Bryan]

159. Thank you so much for starting this thread

I have a comparatively moderate case of AS that still limits the parameters of my life. I first heard of AS when I was your age, five years ago. I was at an all-time low: I was living with my parents, menially employed, and engaged in an elaborate deception that I was attending college across town, when in reality I had dropped out in 2000 due to losing my financial aid thanks to poor grades and depression-related issues, which they still don't know about).

I found it excruciatingly hard to find stability in my life. Thanks to very strong aptitudes in writing, reading, and detail work I'd thrived academically as a child, even though I was withdrawn and found it difficult to build and maintain friendships. I felt constant frustration; I found personal interaction baffling and infuriating, and had a tendency to be bored easily with subjects that didn't fit with my interests, moreover, I had the non-neurotypical lack of coordination and the less-common difficulties with the rules and abstractions of mathematics and the hard sciences. My aptitudes allowed me to "pass" where children with more severe problems would have signaled their problems through behavior, and as a result, I spent my school career being told I was gifted by teachers and counselors, and it was so far from my understanding of myself that I came to believe they were lying to me to spare my feelings. I became cynical and hardened towards people and tried to be self-sufficient, but this was self-sabotaging, because I still had a very earnest, sentimental outlook that kept me from from really being the cool misanthrope.

These pattern stayed with me into college; I finally had the license to withdraw from people as much as I could, but the increase in workload and lack of personal interaction with instructors was staggering to me, building a self-reinforcing spiral of high personal expectations that I almost always failed to meet.

Receiving a conditional diagnosis of AS changed my entire perception of the world. I don't know if other AS folks have similar experiences, but I was able to get onto Risperdal, which controlled my anxiety and emotional extremes, and I finally found a principle of explanation for all the feelings I couldn't express before.

I don't often talk to people about my condition and I've never told an employer, but I've been employed full-time for three years (at a call center: dozens of short, repetitive conversations on controllable topics, which, I note with some amusement, fits me well) and living on my own for two, and I've never felt more in control of my life; best of all, I haven't had any episodes that necessitated explaining my condition to people, which I think is a blessing. I still don't find it easy to interact with people and I prefer to spend almost all of my free time alone and scanning DU and indulging my other interests to obsessive extremes, but I'm more in control than I've ever been before, and I feel very lucky to live in a time when the conditions of the spectrum are passing into widespread understanding.

[David in Canada]

278. I REALLY relate to you!

Hi, Bryan! :hi:

I really relate with a lot of what you say.

I myself did supurbly with history and English. My worst subject was, by far, mathematics. I cannot see 3-dimensional objects on paper and I also cannot count in my head. I need at least a paper and pen(cil) in order to keep track of the numbers. Also, if someone gave me an example of how to solve a mathematical problem, I would use the *EXACT* same method over and over, as in rote. I could not get the concept or the meaning of mathematics. It's just out of my realm of understanding.

I myself was considered gifted by teachers and counsellors, who were shocked with the discrepancy between my intellect and my rather mediocre grades, except in English and history.

Regarding co-ordination, I too have major problems with that. I tend to be a klutz. When handing someone something, like a glass of water for example, I'd place it on the table as I have trouble telling when to release it. I will occasionally drop the glass or it might seem I am reluctant to let go of the glass. I also have major problems working my arms in unison. There tends to be a 1-or-2 second delay. It is very difficult for me to tie shoe laces and when I do, it is rather shoddy. I don't know if it's related or not, but I cannot blow my nose. I know how it's done, but I can't complete the task sucessfully!

I tend to care about people but have become very, very cautious when communicating and commisserating with people. Due to my inability to read body language, facial expressions and eye movements, it is probably a rather prudent decision.

I have come to become indifferent towards those who don't like me. However, I beome very angry if someone pretends to like me or backstabs me. X( As such, I would never backstab or betray anyone! N-E-V-E-R! I guess that disqualifies me from a job in the Bush administration, eh? :rofl:

I never went to college. My GPA was too low (2.2) to qualify for college. I went to technical school and got certifications in A+ (computer repair technician) and Microsoft Office User Specialist (MOUS) during 2001-2002. However, due to the competitive job market in Florida, I never attained employment. :cry: I hope to have better luck here in Quebec. ;)

Lastly, I have a major problem turning verbal descriptions into a mental pictures and vice versa. Do you or anyone else here have a similar problem?

[theobscure]

281. relating to both of your situations...

Like I mentioned before I was in AP English and History in high school, but struggled mightily with math and science at any advanced level. I'm pretty decent with basic math, even doing basic add and subtract in my head, but going beyond that into more advanced areas like geometry, I was helpless. It took me two full tries, and one aborted one, in college to pass the basic statistics class necessary for a B.S. degree. I'd still be there if it weren't for a few accounting major friends tutoring me alot.

I was highly involved in journalism in high school and went to college to pursue that. I thought writing was a strength I could latch on to. That abruptly ended, however, when I got my first college paper back. The professor was brutal about my poor writing skills. I abandoned any planned involvement in the college newspaper and basically spent my college years drinking and smoking pot while taking the easiest classes I could possibly find.

As far as coordination, this is where I am radically different than you guys. I have always had very good hand-eye coordination. I was pretty active in sports and loved them. Sports, particularly watching and studying the strategy around baseball, was my obsession. I did have serious athletic limitations regarding running speed. I was born completely flat footed and also born with my hips improperly aligned causing extreme inflexibility (I've been told many times by doctors, etc. I am the most physically inflexible person in terms of lower body they've ever seen.) So basically my running speed was extremely slow, even by major league baseball catcher standards. This made any kind of involvement in sports at the high school level impossible.

Believe it or not, I used to do well with communications as long as they were structured. I did fine with interviewing (journalism) or being interviewed (for jobs), giving speeches or presentations. But once you took the predictability of structure away, I was in real trouble, in a real hurry. All the jobs I've had always started with an impressive interview that created a positive impression of my social skills. But very quickly, once the job started and it became a matter of getting to know and cooperate with my co-workers and bosses, I would be exposed as some kind of fraud. My work environment tended to deteriorate very rapidly.

[David in Canada]

360. Similarities & Differences

Hi, theobscure! :hi:

Like I said earlier, history and English were my best subjects, by far. I was the same as you as well with mathematics and science.

I can easily do arithmetic as long as I have a paper and pen(cil) to keep it all in focus. I can do some algebra but it is frustrating. Geometry is beyond my realm of understanding.

Regarding sports, I loathed it. Especially P.E. and "dressing out". I am reluctant to even show my LEGS in public. I know it's extreme, especially a Progressive but that's how I am. I won't even go nude in front of my cat!!!

I am good at conversing in a technical sense or strictly formal. When it comes to small talk, especially in interviews, I stagger and fall flat.

I also sometimes have an occaisonal stammer like Bob Newhart does... :silly:

[Canuckistanian]

168. Hi, David 1981

My son is autistic, too. But he's not Asperger's, he's a high-functioning ASD. He's 9 years old now.

Can you tell me about any good organizations that have helped you? Any good books?

:hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

178. My son is too, I recommend The ARC

They sponsor a couple of groups that I find vital; Parent-to-parent and the fathers network.

Upthread is a recommendation to read anything by Temple Grandin.

For our son, eating is a big issue so the book "just take a bite" has been helpful.

[David in Canada]

249. Cool..

I'm going to check what kind of help for Aspies is available in Canada. :)

I myself am quite risk-adverse. However, I do like food. I can't stand certain foods and I can't "develop a taste" for anything.

However, I enjoy a great variety of foods. I love French and Italian cuisine especially.

Some foods I can't stand are cheddar cheese (melted or Velveeta) not peanut butter. I have never tasted peanut butter because both times I tried, I vomited before taking a bite.

I am also sensitive to certain processed foods and my mom cooks a lot from scratch. Fortunately, the restaurants here tend to do so too and processed foods are at a minimum.

I am really frightened of GM 'frankenstein' foods. Those things are atrocious. Sorry to go off-topic, but George Monbiot's articles on GM foods in the "Guardian" newspaper in the UK are the most spot on..

[David in Canada]

245. Hi!

Hi, Canuckistanian! :) A fellow Canadian, I presume? ;)

Well, I have only known about Asperger's for less than a year and I am 24.

Sadly, I fell through the cracks, especially my latter teenage years due to Jebbie's education cuts...

I haven't had any organisation support except for groups of fellow Aspies online. I have read a lot of online websites, essays and papers to form my basis in knowledge.

[Jim__]

169. Why are you self-diagnosed?

Never mind. I see that's already been asked and answered.

[Czolgosz]

170. I once asked a neuropsychologist friend of mine if she thought I had AS (I

am very shy and sometimes -- too often -- do socially foolish things without thinking). She said, anyone who has the social presence to suspect that they may have AS almost certainly doesn't have AS. Most people who have AS cannot perceive the magnitude by which they do not fit in socially. She said, "you know that social awkwardness you feel and which makes you wonder if you have AS? People with AS generally don't have the ability to make that perception."

If you are concerned about this, you should see someone about it.

[TrogL]

234. nonsense

Once you've had people tell you to your face enough time that you're socially clueless, it's pretty evident that something's wrong.

It'd be the same if you had bad body odour and didn't notice.

[David in Canada]

253. Well...

I wasn't aware of AS until someone mentioned the name and I checked it out on Wikipedia.

I read it and I fit all the symptoms and diagnostic criteria. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck! ;)

Before I found out what Asperger's is (a year ago today I never even :heard: the term) I thought I was normal but just a social reject. One or two persons even asked me in high school if I was autistic in high school and not knowing about AS and HFA, was quite indignant and responded with a strong "HELL, NO!!!"

By the way, I was able to deduce that I had the symptoms via logical reasoning rather than emotionalism. I didn't think about whether or not it fit via any biased response when I was reading the criteria. I didn't seek to confirm Asperger's in my self nor rule it out. I just wanted it to be was it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hope this helps! :toast:

[mdmc]

171. I think that the county chair of my county's Dem party is an aspie

I have a friend that has an aspie sister.

I am often amazed by my Dem chair's ability to lead while suffering from this disease.

[David in Canada]

254. Aspies & Leadership

Aspies can often be great political leaders if politics is their obsession.

Al Gore has some Asperger's traits as did former UK Prime Minister Edward Heath.

I think Gore, ***if*** he has Asperger's can hide it somewhat due to Tipper being a sympathetic extrovert and able to keep him out of making a faux pas or two. ;)

Other persons reputed to have Asperger's are Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg and George Lucas. Spielberg might be diagnosed. I'm not sure, though.

Also, Newsweek or a similar publication had an article in which many associates portray former Treasury Secretary and Harvard University president Lawrence Summers as an Aspie.

YMMV, however. :toast:

[Thirtieschild]

173. How great that so many of you can see AS in yourselves - and admit

I suspect that my adult son has Asperger's. He denies it but from where I sit, he fits the bill - brilliant, logical, very little spatial sense (that was a symptom I didn't know about), hard time making friends, married briefly and disastrously, depressive, problem with drugs and alcohol (when he can afford them). I so admire those of you who admit the problem.

[Der Blaue Engel]

228. The problem

Hmmm. This word doesn't seem right to me. Aspie's are different, but different isn't always wrong. "Admitting the problem" sounds like it's something they're doing, or a fault of some kind. Embracing their difference sounds better to me. Just a thought.

[David in Canada]

255. AS

Your son and I are very similar except I have never used drugs nor smoked. I do drink occaisonally, but only a shot or two of a liqeur such as Bailey's. I detest the taste and texture of beer. Wine and vodka are atrocious to my senses as well. Only exception is Manishewitz brand wine because of it's sweetness.

I definately don't want kids. I need my solitude for my sanity. :) I am scared of marriage because I am afraid of divorce. I don't think my psyche would take such a trauma. :scared:

[goclark]

174. Welcome to DU! I had an extremely bright student

with Asperger's about 7 years ago!

He was 8 years old at that time.

I will always remember his family because they were so lovely.

They were so willing to do anything that would help the other students/staff members understand his personality.

I worked closely with his parents to help him adjust to the school setting.

I agree with your assessment, I often wondered how he would get along later in life.

He was Movie Star good looking!

Of the thousands of students that I nurtured over the years, to my knowledge, he was the only one diagnosed with the Syndrome.

Keep me posted on your progress.

I admire your honesty and your willingness to help others to understand.

If you ever want to email me, I would be happy to respond.


PS/Let me know if I have any spelling errors, I can make some biggies when I don't hit that spell check feature, it happens to all of us. :)

[David in Canada]

256. Thanks :)

Hi, goclark! :hi:

Thank you so much for your warm welcome and offerings of friendship. :hug:

[TrogL]

191. Join the club

(on edit)

OK, so since everybody else appears to have bared their souls, I may as well expand this a bit.

I:

• was bullied endlessly
  
• obsessed about and was an expert about helicopters, and to a lesser extent, aircraft in general
  
• almost no school friends except one or two who were also social reject
  
• at school "socialized" only with people significantly older than me. They were protection and adopted me as a mascot.
  
• hated parties at University and would sit the corner reading and/or drinking myself unconcious
  
• have almost no facial expression and am hopeless at reading them. I know when I've upset someone when they start leaking water.
  
• have severe problems with names and faces. I can't recognize my own kids in a crowd. I frighten myself in the mirror.
  
• have to warn supervisors that I do not "get" body language or other social subtleties. If they have a concern with something, "hinting" won't work - just straight out tell me. I won't mind. Saved my job several times.
  

[TrogL]

193. kick for the update

:kick:

[1monster]

210. You've just reminded me of when my stepson was young. He was

an expert on dinosaurs of all kinds. That was a rather mild obsession compared to when he discovered trains. (His maternal grandfather was into model railroads.)

Trains were about all he could talk about and he knew just about everything there was to know about them down to the nuts and bolts used to hold them together. He could bore for England on subject were boring an Olympic sport. :D

He also spent as much time with adults as he could. He was a reject even among rejects. Poor kid.

When he came to live with his father and I as a teenager, we all had some real adjustment problems. He didn't understand most of what I said but would indicate that he understood anyway... Since then, I've learned to recognize that slight blankness that comes over his face when he doesn't understand. But it is subtle. I can see where Auspies are considered expressionless, but it isn't entirely so.

Once when he was about eight or nine years old, he was watching a Peanuts special about Snoopy's brother Spike that I had taped for him. I was working outside with his father, but came back in to check on him. He was sobbing his little heart out. I aked him what was wrong, and he answered that Spike had really wanted to stay with the (real live) girl in the show, but didn't know how to tell her, so he just went back to the desert.

I didn't really understand why that had touched him so much back then, but having learned since about Auspergers, it makes a lot of sense.

[pitohui]

213. warning people -- a key concept

that works well for me too, i tell people right away, i am not going to recognize you until i have met you several times, i can't recognize faces, if you want to tell me something just tell me because the hint is prob. going to sail overhead

if you let them know what is going on and that it isn't meant to snub them, they can be v. helpful and understanding

[Boomer]

300. Sound of a light bulb clicking on

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my mother had AS. And although I do recognize certain OCD traits of her that I seem to have inherited (in a much milder form), it never occurred to me that my inability to recognize faces was part of that syndrome.

Just a few months ago I highly insulted someone by obviously not recognizing his face. I took a wild guess as to who he was (I knew it was someone I was SUPPOSED to know), and got it wrong. I've always needed repeat meetings before I could remember people, and even then I am highly depedent on context. Many years ago I, again, highly insulted a woman who I knew perfectly well... in Indiana. But by chance she showed up at a convention in Maryland, in a totally unrelated context to any in which I'd known her, and I simply did not recognize her. I didn't even recognize my mistake until months later when I saw her name on the convention list. I recognized the name, just not the face. Sigh.

[David in Canada]

317. Context

Hi, Boomer! :hi: Nice to chat again! :toast:

I can recognise faces but if I am dependent on context. If the person is, say, a businessperson and I see them in a tee-shirt and shorts, I would not recognise them. Same for people who normally wear glasses but I see them without glasses and vice versa. I also have a similar problem with radically different hairstyles. Paradoxically, if they have only a subtle change, I am oblivious to it! :crazy:

[Ilsa]

202. Hi David! Glad you could be here! I have a son

who is 9 years old and he has PDD Pervasive Developmental Disability - Not Otherwise Specified. It's a rough life, helping him through his communication frustrations and autism.

[David in Canada]

257. It is!

It is hard communicating, especially emotions and compassion. Often when I do, it comes off as smarmy or generic, although I deeply mean it.

When trying to convey my emotions and trying to gain understanding, I can get frustrated and end up sobbing or grunting as I have used every form of speech to convey it and I can't get it through. If i'm really frustrated, I tend to slam my forehead with the palm of my hand several times and then go to my rocking chair and rock the frustration away. :banghead:

[SPKrazy]

204. You Are Self-Diagnosed?

would you feel comfortable self diagnosing yourself with cancer?

Would it hurt to get a professional opinion?

[Ilsa]

207. Excellent post. And I want to say that there are clinics and doctors

that specialize in life management, training, and behavior management to help Aspies get past some of the difficulties they face.

[TrogL]

236. It's difficult to get a professional opinion

It's expensive in the States and difficult in Canada to get an appointment with someone qualified to make the diagnosis.

I've been tentatively diagnosed by both a psychiatrist and psychologist but both say they need more time with me.

[David in Canada]

259. Asperger's Clinicians

The following is a roughly complete list of the qualified Asperger's clinicians in the United States:

http://www.aspergers.com/asplist.htm

Some persons in the US are literally a plane ride away from a diagnosis! :wow:

[David in Canada]

258. Diagnosis

I'd LOVE to be formally diagnosed for both peace of mind and to have as a mode of legal resource and social aid that can help me.

However, I found out just a few days before moving to Canada when someone mentioned the Asperger's name in passing. I looked it up and had my 'a ha!' moment. Anyway, there are very few psychiatric professionals in the United States familiar with it.

I'm currently getting settled in Canada and getting my papers. However, I was able to gain e-mail correspondence with an Asperger's expert in the Montreal area, so once I have my "carte soleil" (the Quebec health care card) i'll have more options open to me.

As to the cancer diagnosis, you are right to a certain extent. However, the years of experience of rejection and the glaringly obvious meeting the criteria is kind of being able to self-diagnose cancer in oneself when they have a basketball size tumour protruding from their skin.

Hope I didn't ruffle any feathers. Just trying to give an analogy. :yourock:

[ThatsMyBarack]

218. *Count Me In!*

I was diagnosed with AS when I was 17 (I'm 35 now), but they didn't have a "label" for it back then. :hi:

[David in Canada]

260. Welcome!

Hi, danagsk8! :hi:

Welcome to the club. ;)

:toast:

[fleabert]

227. You will definitely find some kindred spirits here, and welcome!

I do not have Aspergers, but I hope I am as understanding as possible to those who have it.

again, Welcome to DU! :hi:

[David in Canada]

262. Hi, fleabert!

Hi, fleabert! :hi:

Thanks for the invite and understanding. :D

[Vexatious Ape]

247. Hey David,

My 12 year old son has Aspergers. Yes, like you, he had some bully problems in the past but we've been home-schooling him for about 2 years now--he's much happier kid now. Most Aspies have an intense interest in something--anything, an obsession. My son's interest is heavy metal music. What's yours?

[Vexatious Ape]

248. Hey David,

My 12 year old son has Aspergers. Yes, like you, he had some bully problems in the past but we've been home-schooling him for about 2 years now--he's much happier kid now. Most Aspies have an intense interest in something--anything, an obsession. My son's interest is heavy metal music. What's yours?

[Vexatious Ape]

250. Hey David,

My 12 year old son has Aspergers. Yes, like you, he had some bully problems in the past but we've been home-schooling him for about 2 years now--he's much happier kid now. Most Aspies have an intense interest in something--anything, an obsession. My son's interest is heavy metal music. What's yours?

[David in Canada]

264. Interests!

Hi, Vexatious Ape! :hi:

I hope this thread and all the posts and insight of my fellow Aspies as given you insight and solace. I wish you the best for both yourself and your son. :grouphug:

May he have a happy adolescence and escape the pitfalls myself and others have suffered. :toast:

That said, my interests are computers, politics and history. With politics, I follow politics in every nation on Earth.

For US elections, I follow every House and Senate race (primaries included!), every gubernatorial and statewide race (Lt. Gov. AG, Treasurer, etc.) but only the general breakdown of state legislative races except in rare circumstances.

For Canadian elections, I follow the elections in every Federal riding (district) and every provincial election. I follow provincial election in detail at the riding level in Quebec and Ontario and in other provinces, marvel at select ridings.

For UK elections, I follow elections in every Westminster constituency (district; riding) and the general breakdowns for the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland legislatures.

For other nations, I follow every credible and semi-credible presidential and/or prime ministerial candidate (as applicable) but only follow parliamentary election at the surface level, like parties competing and seat totals.


I also have a macabre interest in nuclear weapons and nuclear war, albeit I detest nuclear weapons. I don't mention it to much to avoid being pegged as a doomsday freak. :freak:

I enjoy oldies music but cannot stand rap nor heavy metal due to the intense sensory overload they induce in me.

Hope this is helpful and interesting! :D

[Vexatious Ape]

266. I hope

you can use your knowlege of politics to make a living. Put Aspergers to your advantage. Of course I'm hopeing the same for my son. His knowlege of Heavy Metal is like yours with politics--he writes record reviews and plays a smoking guitar too.

[David in Canada]

268. I'd love to!

I'd love to be either a candidate for office or a political guru like Josh Lyman on The West WIng. ;)

[Vexatious Ape]

270. From what I've read

Aspies excel in their chosen fields. You'll do great I'm sure.

[TrogL]

276. Not me

My first chosen field was classroom music education. I hadn't clued into the fact that most teaching is heavy-duty socialization, especially at the junior high level.

Then I tried being a bank teller. :crazy:

Sales? :rofl:

Finally, I got into computers.

[David in Canada]

284. Hi, TrogL!

Hi, again, TrogL! :pal:

I too have computer certifications, mine being A+ and MOUS (Office 2000). Unfortunately, the competitive nature of Florida's job market, squeezes out Aspies. Aspies are incapable of being manipulative of cut-throat.

I have aspirations for a political career, go figure! :ROFL: Of course, our new Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, is a reputed Aspie.

[David in Canada]

283. I hope so!

Thanks for the encouraging words, Vexatious Ape! :pal:

The main shortcoming for a career in politics for me is getting connections. Getting any connections is nearly a downright miracle for an Aspie. ;)

[David in Canada]

282. I hope so too!

Hi, Vexatious Ape! :hi:

I'd love to make a career in politics. :)

[XemaSab]

263. Welcome to DU!

I have many traits in common with Aspies, but I also have many in common with NT's.

I have felt like life is a social minefield my whole life, and most people who get to know me think I am very strange.

However, I can usually "fake" social interaction and chitchatting.

:hi:

[David in Canada]

265. Hi!

Hi! Thanks for the warm tidings. :hi:

I tend to be quite quiet except when I have an opportunity to discuss politics or history.

I have kind of cultivated a bit of an "Awwww, shucks", quiet charm so I don't seem to much like a bitter curmudgeon although sometimes I still do if very stressed or fatigued.

[REP]

267. Neurotypical, But I Love Your .Sig!

:hi:

[David in Canada]

269. Thanks :)

Hi, REP! :hi:

Thanks for the warm welcome :)

[Vektor]

271. Welcome to DU, David!

Thank you for sharing this with us. My friend's son has Aspergers, so I am somewhat familiar with this syndrome. Thank you for providing more information on the subject for myself and others. I wish you well.

[David in Canada]

292. You're Welcome! :-)

Hi, Vektor! :hi:

Thanks for the warm welcome! :toast:

I'm always glad to inform and enlighten! I'm glad to be of service! :D

[lonestarnot]

275. By God that's what they call it egh? Well now I feel better. A diagnosis

does make one feel better indeed.

[David in Canada]

299. Welcome!

Hi, lonestarnot! :hi:

Welcome to the Aspie club! :toast: Time to learn the secret handshake! :ROFL: Only kidding! ;-)

Glad to be of help. Best of luck on your journey of self-discovery. :hug:

[AndyTiedye]

277. Hi

I think a lot of us techies figured it out shortly after the appearance
of an article on Aspergers Syndrome in Wired Magazine.
The answer to life, the universe and everything is 42.
So is my score on their test.

We Aspies… often are bullied on at school.

I made it through on sheer masochism. Confused the heck out of the bullies.

We also cannot read body language and while we honestly
care about people, our emotions might be difficult to convey on the outside.

NTs do it all by instinct.

People with AS have huge difficulties finding friends

We are not capable of maintaining the kind of social web that most NTs do.
It would be utterly exhausting.

My ideal social event is a small-to-medium-sized rave out in the woods, where
I can get in small amounts of socializing intermixed with many hours of dancing.
Dancing is the ultimate stim.

romance is nearly impossible.

Unless you seek out other Aspies :pals:

[TrogL]

285. romance is nearly impossible.

Unless you seek out other Aspies

...Or those who love and can cope with them.

My girlfriend copes fairly well with having an Aspie in the house. She's just well aware that:

• I cannot read her facial expression, tone of voice or body language.
  
• She cannot trust my facial expressions, tone of voice or body language to match what she's used to seeing
  
• I take things literally.
  
• My sense of humour is waaaay out in left field. I'm into wordplay and bad puns.
  
• I don't get jokes, sitcoms or visual humour (eg. Dick Van Dyke's pratfalls).
  
• I cannot cope with being touched unless it's on my terms and I get advance warning.
  
• I have issues with smells, sounds and textures.
  
• I get monumentally obsessed with things and issues.
  

[David in Canada]

320. Similarities

Hi, TrogL! :hi:

I match everything on your checklist.

I love Monty Python and MadTV too. They're good shows. :)

[David in Canada]

353. Hi, AndyTiedye!

Hi, AndyTiedye! :hi:

Our scores are similar! I'm a 41! :toast:

There are a lot of Aspies live in Redmond, Washington (Microsoft), Livermore, California (Lawrence Livermore Laboratories), Silicon Valley area of California (techie mecca) and Los Alamos, New Mexico (nuclear research).

In my online experience, I noticed a lot of Aspies from Sweden, UK, Germany and Israel. I have never met an Aspie yet from either France or Italy for some reason.

[Mr_Spock]

286. I am an Aspie - so is one of my daughters.

My daughter was having some issues early in school and we eventually got an Aspergers diagnosis. At the time we were looking into my daughters issues, my mother sent me articles about Aspergers. I realized after reading the articles why I struggle so mightily in certain areas mostly related to social interaction. My daughters therapist eventually diagnosed her with Aspergers and now when I meet with the therapist separately she is pretty convinced of my self-diagnosis (I still struggle mightily with making eye contact amongst other less obvious issues).

Since it's been a lifetime of unique experiences for me, I could also write about a lifetime of misunderstandings, regret and embarrassment (and there are many, many positives as well) - but suffice it to say that it's nice meeting another who understands...

[David in Canada]

302. Self-Discovery

Hi, Mr_Spock! :hi:

Self-discovery is great as it really puts everything into proper perspective.

The only regret was having to wait so long to find out about it! I was like "Now I found out! Just great!" :D

[patcox2]

287. Self diagnosis? Yay. Welcome to the club.

What a cool club, too. Have fun. Now you can blame your self-diagnosed "illness" and you don't have to worry about trying to figure out why you piss people off, don't even try to develop a sense of empathy or consideration for others. Cool.

[Mr_Spock]

291. Imagine if the brain could so easily be reformed

Your lack of empathy is surely not one of your strong suits - and you criticize Aspies for lacking such - shame!

You really ought to meet my daughter before you decide that people use this sort of diagnosis as a crutch - I can arrange for you to meet her if you wish - it would be a real eye opener for you...

[patcox2]

296. I could arrange for you to meet me, too.

I know aspergers. Doesn't mean I have to rejoice in it.

People are all on a continuum, aspergers traits are present in many many people if not everyone, in lesser and greater degrees, this embracing of a simplistic label is creepy to me. This deliberate creation of a dividing line and a boundary between us and them, us aspergers people and them "neurotypicals" is creepy as hell to me.

There is great diversity among humans, these traits that have lately acquired this label "aspergers" are just one example of that diversity. Acceptance of those traits as just a normal example of the normal diversity of humanity is not furthered by labelling and medicalizing these traits.

[Boomer]

305. You're missing the point

That "creepy" label would have brought understanding and insight into my mother's life.

My mother withdrew from any signficant socializing, from even trying to form friendships, because of her inability to read emotions. Over and over again she had unwittingly insulted people she considered friends and could never understand why they suddenly started avoiding her. She was puzzled and saddened by this inability of hers, and spent decades trying to explain it to herself. As a logical, rational woman who prized intellect, her first instinct was always to form a theory that would explain a mystery, but this mystery always eluded her.

Identifying the source of her difficulties could have helped the people who knew her, but not well, to realize that she was not aloof and arrogant (frequent assumptions). It might have helped those who once were her friends to bear the insults with some compassion and generosity when they understood the source of her shortcomings. And it sure as hell would have helped ME understand why I was never able to interact normally with my mother, why she continually hurt my feelings and why we couldn't fit the pattern of mother and daughter that I expected.

These "labels" aren't crutches for dismissing bad behavior. They are facts that can help people with AS and their family and friends to better cope with the symptoms.

[David in Canada]

311. Perfectly put, Boomer!

Ho, Boomer! :hi: Welcome to the thread. :toast:

I fully relate fully to what you are saying. You synopsis of your mother's difficulties and dilemmas are almost a Xerox copy of my own.

One must realise that we didn't choose to be this way and we try to fit the societal mould.

We do try to mend fences and atone for our faux pas, but it is exceedingly difficult when people try to communicate your fault via hints and brush offs like "Oh, it's NOTHING!" or "It's no big deal" until they finally blow their stack and storm off in a huff and we are standing there, mouth agape and on the verge of tears because we are trying so hard to figure what we did that was grievous and find a way to atone to it.

If they honestly and openly verbally communicate to us the problems and what not to do, we'd go out of the way to accomodate them. As it is, most Aspies tend to walk on eggshells which in turn makes us even more reclusive and makes even the most enjoyable social interactions very, very fatiguing due to us always having to be on guard. As such, we tend to form droll and "humourless" outward characteristics in order to not anger or upset anyone. Apparently, even LAUGHTER is either acceptable or unacceptable according to body language. :eyes: If we don't laugh and don't joke, we don't upset anyone. Then everyone wonders why we are so uptight. :eyes:

C'est la vie! :beer:

[Boomer]

322. My mother was such a sad child

Hey David,

Thanks for the support. Hearing your story -- and that of other Aspies -- is bringing back all kinds of memories about my mother. All the photographs of her as a young girl make me cringe with sympathy because she always had such a solemn, almost haunted look on her face. And the few early stories she related to me were of episodes of family humiliations.

For instance, she was at least 14 years old before she found out Santa Claus wasn't real! She had accepted Santa with earnest literalness and never picked up on the truth. I guess no one in her family thought to outright TELL her, they just assumed she had wised up like every one else. When her brothers realized her illusion had lasted so long, they teased her unmercifully.

They, of course, were charming and sociable and loved moving from city to city or country to country (my grandfather was a diplomat). My mother, however, suffered terribly from being constantly uprooted and thrust into new social situations.

As an adult she managed to transform her sad and awkward manner into a kind of patrician aloofness. She was a rail-thin, handsome woman, who carried herself with a stiff dignity that kept people at a distance. They often admired her, unless they grew to know her well (not many did) and eventually, inevitably, they pulled back due to her "insults." The irony is that her aloof manner made the insults seem all the more deliberate, since in all other aspects she was so very proper that how could she possibly NOT be aware of her actions? If she'd been obviously gauche and physically clumsy, I think people might have realized her limitations.

One of my mother's oldest friends was a woman with rather severe emotional difficulties (she was often institutionalized because of her inability to cope). I always admired my mother's compassion for this odd woman -- who was sweet, but could be rather trying at times -- and I assumed their relationship was built on my mother's desire to be kind to someone less fortunate. But in hindsight I realize that my mother had found a kindred spirit, and someone who was oblivious to her own blunders.

[David in Canada]

329. So true...

Hi, Boomer! :hi:

I had a somewhat happy childhood at home and I loved going to grandma's :) School life was totally different though. I myself believed in Santa Claus since age 9. Once I found out, i've been an atheist ever since. ;) I find it illogical to on one hand to ridicule the very notion of a Santa Claus while at the same time raving about and praying to an invisible deity or deities who, unlike Santa Claus, don't even have any likeness of them.

I myself have cultivated a tad of an "awww shucks" boyish charm. I tend to be very polite, albeit stiff, and do volunteer handshakes as long as I have ready access to a restroom with soap (i'm a germophobe). I have found handshakes to be a perfect ersatz for pats on the back, hugs, etc.

My smile comes off a bit plastic, although it is genuine. If stressed in a group, I might tap my legs unconsciously until told, rub my hands, roll my ring or, if wearing a tie, look down and fumble around with it.

[Mr_Spock]

306. This is why you need to meet my daughter

She is in such a "place" on the spectrum that she cannot function without a lot of intervention. She would have been kicked out of school long ago if it wasn't for a ton of work on our parts. I used to think like you and I don't use my Aspergers an an excuse for my behavior, but she is even further down the spectrum and she really needs special attention at school to function and not totally ostracize herself. Please be a little more sensitive to others predicaments - we are sharing an issue that has caused many of us here at DU a great deal of pain - I don't see how poking a stick in our collective eyes is helpful.

[lumberjack_jeff]

338. The labels are legitimate.

The differences between those on the autism spectrum and those who are neurotypical (not a made-up term by the way) are profound and so fundamentally hard wired into our being that we are unaware of them.

When my son doesn't look into my eyes, it's not because he won't, it's because it is uncomfortable. When he self-stims (hand-flapping, etc) he's not doing it to annoy anyone. When I, on the other hand, see someone avoid eye contact, I'm going to distrust that person, because I'm conditioned to do so.

I resent the basic implication in your post. People don't embrace an ASD diagnosis (including aspbergers) because it's a convenient excuse for antisocial behavior. As your post so eloquently (albeit inadvertently) shows, people don't need an excuse for being antisocial.

I find that creepy.

[David in Canada]

345. Well Put, Jeff!

Jeff! I couldn't put it better myself! :applause:

People do forget that a lot of our personalities and our modes of thinking ARE hard-wired!

Your reparte is quite succinct!

:yourock:

[David in Canada]

309. Self-Diagnosis

Hi, patcox2! :hi:

I'm sorry you take such a view but with such a dearth of licensed psychiatrists and psychologists that specialise in Asperger's diagnosis, self-diagnosis is the most many can do. If one meets every possible criteria of a condition, that person has it. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and eats like a duck, it's a duck! ;)

Please try not to be too hasty to judge us. I recognise some Aspies might be inconsiderate, but every Aspie is different. Many Aspies have a tough time externalising their inner emotions. That provides for a "false reading" of the Aspie. Aspies have a hard time making the same facial expressions and smiles as our neurotypical counterparts but we try. I do realise we make up only 0.25% of the human population so when neurotypical people misrad us, I can put it into perspective as they tend to use the standard used for the other 99.75%, which is indeed natural considering the high mathematical probability of interacting with a neurotypical person. :)

While Aspies lack in the empathy department, we do feel sympathy and will help a person in dire need. We have a hard time putting ourselves in another person's shoes but we do care about other people and do feel sorry for their plight. Such a broad brush is quite unfair although it can indeed appear like that on the surface as is quite frustrating when trying to refute. The lack of empathy is probably a by-product as to our inability to grasp certain abstract concepts. That does not mean we don't care about others.

As to angering and frustrating people, it is not intentional. Such communication errors are not malicious and we act in good faith. Society tends to focus of putting on a show more than it is in experiencing the emotion itself. We try and try and try to fit in but we fail to grasp the very concept of many things neurotypicals take for granted. Sorry for the analogy, but it's sort of like someone gave you a newspaper in Russian and asked you to translate it into perfect English on the spot.

With body language, no one teaches us but still expects us to read it AND perform it. Many of them tend to be rather subtle and subtlety is our weak point.

In closing, Asperger's Syndrome is not an illness, especially not a mental illness, as it doesn't warp our sense of reality and does not make us insane or dangerous to the community. It's rather a different structuring of the physique of the brain, especially the neurological components. It IS a social handicap, to be sure, but that does not prove it a mental illness. There IS some debate among Aspies and the psychiatric communities as to whether it is an abnormality or a normal anomaly.

I hope this message is helpful to you and I appreciate your stating your point of view. A normal discussion and friendly debate is always best to facilitate open communication and greater understanding. I hope to hear from you in the future. :toast:

[patcox2]

298. Is it an aspergers trait to like to categorize and label things?

Similar to the love for lists?

Perhaps that explains this creepy enthusiasm for embracing a limiting label and even creating a strange label for people who don't merit the aspergers label, this "neurotypical" thing.

[Bridget Burke]

By "labelling" themselves as "Aspies"....

Some people realize that they may be "different" but there is really nothing "wrong" with them.

Rather than seeing a shrink for years to find out whether they "saw something nasty on the woodshed"--they can work on behaviors that cause problems. For example, organizational skills can be expanded to deal with bills & other dull paperwork--not just one's special interests. Saying the first thing that comes to mind may be hurtful--so they learn to pay more attention.

What's your excuse?

[David in Canada]

323. My Response

Hi, Bridget Burke! :hi:

Believe me, i've been spending YEARS trying my best to smooth out my social gaffes. I try to mince my words, I walk on eggshells, everything. When I speak, it is rather self-evident that I am not communicating the proper point I am trying to convey. Apparently, it is a problem with subtle nuances. Subtlety is my weak point. I try to read it, I have read about it to try to be self-aware enough to pick it up but it is very difficult to even grasp some of the concepts.

Regarding organisational skills, I am quite good with bills and paperwork. They make sense and don't use hints or riddles to explain their meaning. They say what they intend to convey to the person it is sent to. While we do spend as much time on our pursuits as we can, we do indeed work on the necessary stuff to. I found your broad brush to be rather rash and hurtful. :cry:

I don't like to upset people and I myself feel sadness when another person is hurt because of a faux pas of mine. You stated to "learn to pay more attention". I do pay attention to them but I keep making mistakes. If they are upset by a particular phrase or sentence, I make a mental not not to repeat those words in their presence just to make sure. However, sometimes it's one I never state before. Being unaware of their sensititivity to that phrase or statement, next thing I know, they're off in a huff! I try to comfort them but use platitudes like "Oh, it's no big deal" or "It's me, not you" and I know they are lying but without open communication, I cannot work with them to find out the problem.

My brain CANNOT pick up body language and just instinctually translate it to a verbal value. It is a problem with the physiology of my brain. Anything non-verbal can only be picked up if I see it, someone EXPLAINS it so when I see it, I can use my brain to translate it into a tangible verbal value.

It is indeed better to solve problems when you know the exact nature of the problem and have the tools necessary to actually solve it. :-)

Hope this message helps makes things more clear and understandable. I apologise for any misunderstandings on my part. I never intended to upset or annoy you. O8)

[Kailassa]

332. It's all ok, Bridget is just defending your right to call yourself

an Aspie. The poster Brdget was anwering was questioning people using labels, and suggesting the label was limiting. Bridget was arguing with her.

You can check the top right corner of the post, or check on the message-tree, to find out who is addressing who.

[David in Canada]

346. Oh!

Hi, Kailassa! :hi:

Thanks for correcting me! I am so embarrassed! :hangover:

Sorry, Bridget! Please accept my apologies! :blush:

[Bridget Burke]

381. No problem. Sometimes it's hard to know which message....

You are answering.

No apologies needed.

[David in Canada]

386. :)

Hi, Bridget! :hi:

Thanks for understanding. :pals:

[LittleClarkie]

367. An Aspie killed his brother

He does seem rather intent on insulting our new friend, doesn't he.

[Kailassa]

334. I hope you don't suffer from a creepy enthusiasm for

embracing the label of "human".

Would you accuse a person who could only see well close-up of being creepy if they label themselves as short-sighted?

For many years as a little kid I did not know I was short-sighted, and accepted what my teacher and family said, that I was just too stupid to read the blackboard. I was asked if I could see the teacher, and had it pointed out that the teacher was even closer, so if I could see her, I could certainly see the board. Discovering I was short-sighted was an incredible relief, and I'll never forget the joy of putting on my first pair of glasses and seeing the individual leaves on the trees.

Realizing you have Aspergers can be a similar relief, it means that you are not bad, stupid or crazy, you are just different in a way that many other people are.

There is nothing limiting about a label. Everyone has some things they find easy and some things that are difficult for them. Aspies just happen to be more likely to have particular strengths and weaknesses. For example, two things often found difficult are voice-modulation and eye-contact. But I've learnt to maintain normal eye-contact, and my son has learned to modulate his voice beautifully, has learned to do karaoke at a night-club and was called on to do presentations for a group he was working with last year. A brother with Aspergers still speaks in a monotone, but is so brilliant in his field he is flown all round the world to give lectures.

Having a label of Aspergers means understanding where you are starting from. It says nothing about where you may end up.

If the label of neurotypical bothers you, look at it in the same way as a group of gays labeling non-gays as straight. It's not meant as an insult, it's just the a natural use of language to make names for everything.

[David in Canada]

348. Thanks, Kailassa!

Thanks Kailassa for helping put things in perspective! :hug:

When we know what makes us different and WHY we are different, we can learn all our strengths and weaknesses in a constructive manner and able to formulate realistic goals and aspirations from our self-discovery and help our friends, families and co-workers learn them too. That makes for better friendships, more harmonious families and more conductive workplaces. :D

Knowledge IS Power!

[Kailassa]

352. No worries. Us Aspies were made for the information age.

We thrive on getting into the details behind stuff, and finding out why we are as we are.

My son was diagnosed when he was about 7, and I took him to an autistic school to see if he'd be happier there.
The principal said no way, he was much to bright for that school, but she kindly acceded to his request
to show him All the books she had on Aspergers. He spent the whole day in her office,
skinny little butt up in the air as he darted across the floor from book to book, taking note of everything,
and getting her to explain why some books disagreed with other books.

Other teachers, seeing that, objected, worried that reading all those things about Aspergers would be bad for him,
but she insisted he was allowed to.

I don't know if it's true of all aspies, but the ones in my family all have a hunger for information,
apart from 2 of my brothers who became born-agains.

:hug:

[David in Canada]

354. Aspies & Fundies

Hi, Kailassa! :pals:

I have always had a hunger for information since I was 4.

It was great your son got to read about himself. Knowledge is power.

I always thought that trying to restrict information just makes the whole thing worse for everyone.

When you know your strengths and weaknesses, it makes the challenges ahead more palatable and into perspective!

:hug:

[readmoreoften]

307. My best friend has Aspergers.

I diagnosed him, then sent him off to be diagnosed. We live far away now and sometimes it's hard on the phone because he misunderstands the tone of what I'm saying. I love the fact that he doesn't really "get" lying, though. He intellectually has learned that there are some things you never say (as in, you never tell a woman she looks like she's gained weight), but in spur of the moment interactions he just comes right out with it.

One time a very "charming" associate of mine ran into my Aspie friend and I, and Charming said to Aspie, "Gosh, it's such a shame that we don't get a chance to see one another more often!" Aspie said, "Oh no. I stay away from you on purpose. You kind of get on my nerves."

[Mr_Spock]

310. lol

...love that Aspie brutal honesty. You probably do get on your Aspie friends nerves :D

[readmoreoften]

336. not me, the other guy...

although I'm sure I get on his nerves sometimes, we've been best buddies for almost 10 years now. :)

[Mr_Spock]

337. Doh!! You're right

It was the other guy, though I've never met anyone who doesn't get on my last nerve at times :D

[David in Canada]

313. Hi!

Hi, readmoreoften! :hi:

Glad to see you helped your friend. He's lucky to have a friend like you! :toast:

I can understand the trouble with faux pas. I tend to gaffe a bit myself, albeit unintentionally. My gaffes tend to be more in a subtle way I am unaware of but the other person might be rubbed the wrong way and then I am trying to apologise and atone for my shortcomings.

Due to my rather social ineptness, I am usually more comfortable communicating via telephone or instnat messenger. I prefer instant messenger over e-mail as it is instantaneous and I can ask one question at a time.

When i'm in person, my head tends to be slightly down and I tend to cross my feet and rub my hands or fold my arms...

[VelmaD]

312. I am going to re-iterate a point made earlier...

and I'm hoping becasue of my credentials (I have a degree in social work) that you will listen. Please do no self-diagnose. See a professional. Just because you think you meet all the criteria for a disorder or condition from reading about it does not mean you actually have that condition. There are many conditions that share symptomologies. And there is a tendency with people reading about various mental conditions to interpret what the criteria mean in ways vastly different from what they mean in clinical terms.

Please, see a professional if at all possible so that you can get properly diagnosed and recieve whatever counseling, supportive, or medication services may be appropriate.

It may make you feel better to have a "diagnosis" at the moment...but you need to make sure you have an accurate diagnosis so that you don't do yourself more harm than good.

[theobscure]

321. you may be one of the exceptions...

but I have found from my own bitter experience that most mental health professionals do much more harm than good. I acknowledge that medications, like anti-depressants, can be helpful for some people. If you feel a need to try these medications, you should try and find a general care physician to prescribe them to you first.

Don't go rushing in trying to get a recommendation to a Psychiatrist or Psychologist. Avoid it if at all possible. So little is known about how the brain works, but doctors that specialize in the area of mental health, refuse to acknowledge this and adapt a dangerous sense of superiority and false degree of expertise.

[VelmaD]

324. I have to disagree with you...

DO NOT go to a GP to diagnose or prescribe medications for ANY mental health disorder. If you think psychologists and psychiatrists don't know enough about how the brain works...GPs know even less. Everyone should be frightened at the extent to which unqualified GPs make MH diagnoses and the frequency with which they prescribe medications they know little or nothing about.

But on the other hand, I agree with you, especially regarding psychiatrists, in terms of many MH professionals not being willing to admit they don't know everything. Personally I recommend counselors and social workers...can't prescribe drugs and are much more focused on helping people learn new skills to cope with their MH issues.

[theobscure]

326. but at least GP's don't pretend they know...

Anybody who goes in for medical treatment for a mental health disorder should realize first that they are going to be guinea pigs. You're basically pulling the lever on a slot machine. The problem with psychiatrists and psychologists is that they pretend it's more sophisticated than that. They pretend they know everything and you know nothing, not even about yourself.

[VelmaD]

328. As someone who used to work for a bunch of GPs...

...the ones I know certainly seem to think they know everything too. Even about MH issues where they had no training.

And believe it or not psychology and psychiatry are not just voodoo. The folks in those fields, and other helping professionals like counselors and social workers, spend a lot of time learning about what makes people tick psychologically speaking. We really don't just pull it all out of our collective asses. I promise.

[theobscure]

330. well, based on my numerous experiences....

I have nothing but disdain for the psychiatrists, psychologists, and counselors, I have encountered. As I said, perhaps you are the exception.

[Mr_Spock]

327. I've learned to be similarly cautious based on my DD's experience

I have found that a parent can get almost any diagnosis they want based on their on their "influence" over the professional. Self-diagnosis may not be perfect, but professionals are just as fallible in my personal experience.

[debbierlus]

340. Agreed!

[Doctor_J]

318. I have a student with Asperger's

I teach college math and a student of mine has it. He is fine except when we do group activities. He's bright, and his garde is outstanding. He'd like to be able to interact more in the group settings, and is very participatory durin gthe regular Q&A, but groups of more than 3 or so distract him. He's managed to find campus activities that are not precluded by his condition, and 1-on-1, if I am patient, he's extrememly personable.

Best of luck.

[David in Canada]

319. Group Activities

Hi, TOJ! :hi:

I'm glad you are considerate and helpful to your students! :toast: Trust me, your class is probably the one he looks forward to all day. He'll probably remember you even if he lives to 120 and beyond! :)

That said, group activities are very stressful to Aspies as the communication and co-ordination are very difficult. An Aspie might do more -or less- than asked of them due to the fact that we tend to have a poor sense of proportionality of what is done versus what is expected.

Therefore, when on a project, an Aspie might have completed 90% of his part but will think he is only 40% done, leading to frustration while another might be 20% completed but think he's done everything, leading to miffing everyone else.

As such, Aspies can be manipulated into doing everyone else's share while being oblivious to the fact that they were used. :banghead:

[Kailassa]

331. Groups can be difficult if colloquial speech is used.

In one group a boss came in to give us all a pep talk.
He ended the talk by thrusting his fist into the air and screaming out: "go, go, go!"
I thought he was addressing me, telling to leave, so I quit.

But not all misunderstandings are bad. I tend to not understand insults, and just explain to someone that what they are saying is incorrect, not realizing they were trying to be nasty unless someone points it out to me.

I used that to my sons' advantage when their school principal was being very hateful to them. My other son is retarded, and Mr Handrick didn't want any different kids at "his" school. So I explained to the boys, aged 7 and 9, that the principal was just cranky because he'd been so naughty he had to spend the whole year in the principal's office. These darling, trusting boys believed me, and were sweet as could be to Mr Handrick after that whenever he was nasty, and stopped feeling hurt.

[David in Canada]

349. Colloquial speech...

Hi, Kailassa! :pal:

I tend to speak using a pedantic style. I don't tend to use much colloquial language at all except for "OK" and "n't" in place of "not". Someone once asked if I learned English from Shakespeare. :rofl:

I just don't understand teenage talk. The vulgar slang was the worst and I was always the last to know the meaning. One particular colloquial euphemism for a vagina which is a double entendre for a cat, I FINALLY figured out when I was 15. Someone was honest and merciful enough to politely point out the colloquial nuance of that particular word.

[Kailassa]

355. Lol, I got the shakespearean label too.

And every school report would include the phrase, "Carol is aloof."
My friends were very protected 7th Day Adventist kids, so I never picked up any life skills or language skills from them.

At 18 I was living with my boyfriend and a mate of his, and I got tired of them saying things and laughing, and me not having any idea what they were laughing at, just guessing it was something to do with sex.

So one night I visited the bikies who had the flat above ours, and told them I wanted them to educate me. These were very rough guys who used to boast about raping girls, but my request terrified the living daylights out of them. But I'd made a list of words and phrases I wanted explained, and I was not leaving until they had, so they reluctantly helped me out. They had a christmas tree set up with weird icicles on it, and showed them to me as if they expected me to be shocked. I admired them, and wondered what I was meant to be saying, because things were not making sense.

Years later I realized the icicles had been used condoms. :blush:

[David in Canada]

364. Sexual Naivete

Hi, Kailassa!

I kind of started using more advanced speech at age 7. I was quiet until I needed to communicate something then I started using communication to a greater extent.

I understand the naivete of sexual innuendo. Most of it flies way over my head to this very day. A "sex talk" with me would likely be composed, as least on my side of the conversion, using medically-correct scientific terms. I'd sound like a sexual reproduction professor. :rofl:

As to the condoms thing, I myself probably wouldn't figure it out until hours later. Then i'd get my "A, ha!" moment come to me in a brainstorm. :think:

Nice to chat again. :pals:

[Kailassa]

366. Something just occurred to me.

I've always found it easiest to communicate with people who speak English as a 2nd language.

They don't know the colloquial English tearms either, and, instead of finding my speech stilted, they are pleased that they can understand me easily.

Pehaps you need to look for a girl who was brought up speaking another language.
(And when you find one, if not before, research sex as carefully as you would any other topic of interest.) ;-)

:hug:

[David in Canada]

372. Thanks ;-)

Hi, Kailassa! :pals:

Thanks for the sex research advice. ;) It might come in handy.

Finding a girl that was brought up speaking another language should be easy here! :smoke: Most girls here are natural born Francophones! :headbang:

[LWolf]

379. Interesting.

As a teacher, I've only had one Aspie. In elementary school. I had him for three years, though, and the bond was strong. He HATED group work with a passion. He liked other kids, and liked to direct them. He could not stand taking a part of something and not directing the whole thing.

We (he and I) recognized early on that while he loved interacting with his peers, he was only comfortable doing so from a teacher's perspective. He wanted to teach them, lecture, or direct them. He just couldn't "be" one of them. Because he loved us (his parents and his teacher), he would make a big effort. He was also quite honest about why. Not because he wanted to, or saw himself learning to be "one" of a group, but because he loved us and wanted to please us.

He was much happier with adults, although he still wanted to "teach" them, as well. He intimidated many teachers; they couldn't, or wouldn't, understand the syndrome and persisted in seeing his compulsion to "teach" everyone as ego and/or disrespect.

I miss him. I'm typing here, and the tears are springing up. I'm wondering how he's doing this year, and if there is a way I can get word to him that I'm thinking about him.

[Kailassa]

383. My son and nephew and I, (all aspies,) are all teachers at heart

like your student.

I was 5 when I tried to teach the minister about god. I had read the bible through and he said things in church that I saw as wrong, so I tried to explain to him afterwards where he was wrong. Needless to say he was not impressed. Luckily I had already learned that adults didn't know very much, and not to believe what they say, so when he roared at me, telling me what the devil did to bad little girls like me, I just felt sorry for not being able to learn.

There is a quaint little story about Jesus in Luke, Chapter 2.

Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."

"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

Does that sound like an aspie, to you? It sure does, to me.

[David in Canada]

388. Very true!

Hi, Kailassa! :hi:

Most Aspies are teachers at heart. I had my chance in history class in 1998 during the Clinton impeachment as I explained in detail the procedure for the impeachment of a president. Very rewarding experience. I also had another opportunity in American Government during the Bush/Gore debacle. Another very rewarding experience although i'd have by far preferred the Gore victory over the idiot. ;)

[David in Canada]

387. I see. :)

Hi, LWolf! :toast:

I myself preferred to be in the company of adults as the conversations we more intellectually stimulating.

I can fully relate to that kid :-)

[LWolf]

390. Did you scare adults

because you knew more than they did about whatever interested you? Or did you irritate them because they thought you didn't know your "place" in the social ranks of "elder" vs "junior?"

I found some adults who thought he was just amazing, and would listen to him lecture all day, kind of like thinking a toddler is cute and being entertained by their toddling, tumbling, and giggling. That I found to be kind of patronizing.

Some adults felt he was "disrespectful" because he put himself on their intellectual level; others were intimidated by him.

Still, there were enough who valued him for the unique person he was, and were comfortable with his sometimes un-childlike differences, to give him a sense of belonging that he never got with his peers.

I will always be grateful for the years I got to spend with him; he taught me so much about the capacities and potentials of human beings!

[Lusted4]

333. A great book to read. Click this link and read about this story.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?z=y&pwb=1&ean=9781400032716

[David in Canada]

350. Thanks!

Hi, Lusted4! :hi:

Thanks for the link! It is greatly appreciated! :toast:

[debbierlus]

339. I have a non-verbal learning disorder (similiar to aspergers)

On the farthest end of the autism spectrum...

I was diagnosed with the disorder over a year ago when my testing showed a huge discrepancy between my verbal & spatial scores on psych tests.

I would like to say a couple of things to you. It is important to understand that people who have these disorders suffer from the inability to read body language & social cues. Your brain processes information differently then other peoples'. My therapist described it like going to a symphony and not being able to hear the high notes. No matter how hard one listens, they still won't hear the music because the brain doesn't process the information. It isn't for a lack of trying or paying attention. However, once you are aware of the disorder their are things that you do to improve your social communication.

It can be difficult to bridge the social gap and make friends. However, it is far from impossible. And, the flip side of this disorder is that people who struggle with this disorder are unusually gifted in language/verbal skills and processing sounds. So, you will have your strengths as well.


I would recommend that you undergo testing to determine precisely what disorder you do suffer with...Self diagnosis is often unreliable. A non-biased therapist and objective testing will give you a clearer picture of what is going on.

Good luck!

[David in Canada]

351. NVLD and Asperger's

Hi, debbierlus! :hi:

According to articles I have read, Non-Verbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) is considered a common co-morbid disorder that goes with Asperger's.

Certainly, many people just have NVLD without Asperger's. However, many (perhaps) most Aspies have NVLD. :toast:

Your analogy regarding the symphony and NVLD/Asperger's is exactly spot on. :)

In closing, I did make an objective analysis of Asperger's and good old Occam's Razor helped me out. I even one, in middle school reported myself to the coach for throwing a ball slightly out of bounds to my own detriment. The team I was on would have won if I had said nothing and I myself would have benefited but my conscience forced me to report it as I cannot accept ill-gained victory. To me it is no different than stealing.

[LittleClarkie]

357. I suspect my brother has it

And often wonder if the ritalin type stuff they gave him from the ages of 6 to 12 were part of the cause. My mom also tended to take tranquilizers as well back then, but I don't know if she did when he was pregnant.

My sister says that when they finally weaned him off of two different meds, he went through withdrawl. At the least, I reckon being doped up during your formative years would tend to stunt one's social skills.

Anyway, welcome.

[David in Canada]

362. Hi, LittleClarkie

Hi, LittleClarkie! :hi:

Asperger's is believed to be inborn and symptoms show up early. Therefore, ritalin most likely is not the cause.

In fact, the ritalin is probably due to a misdiagnosis due to the fact Asperger's is unrecognised by many mental health professionals to this day. The more energetic ones may be diagnosed as ADHD. Other misdiagnoses, some covered here are simple schizophrenia (i.e. without hearing voices), classic autism and depression.

Any depression in an Aspie is usually a symptom of the Asperger's if they are ostracised or picked on excessively.

As to the tranquilisers your mom takes, no information there but as far as i'd guess, i'd say unlikely.

[LittleClarkie]

365. Thanks for your answer. His diagnosis was "hyper-sensitive"

in that he tended to get very upset very quickly. But I do believe it was a misdiagnosis.

[David in Canada]

374. True..

Hi, LittleClarkie! :hi:

Hyper-sensitivity is a classic Aspie trait. Asperger's is probably, by percentage, the most misdiagnosed disorders. It's only been recognised for less than 10 years so old-school psychiatrists will likely breeze right past it.

[mmonk]

368. Greetings David.

My son is in the Autism spectrum which may or may not be Asperger's, but if not, is very close. He currently is a student at NC State University in Raleigh, NC (home of the Hurricanes if you're into hockey).

[David in Canada]

375. Greetings!

Hi, mmonk! :hi:

Glad to meet you! :toast:

It sounds like your son's doing great!

I know most Aspies need a lot of morale boosting via psychological support and financial support as well. Aspies tend to be eased into independent living and self-support. Rapid 360 changes are traumatic to Aspies so they need to get more independent over time.

[Blue_Tires]

369. welcome to the site!

back to the top

[David in Canada]

376. Hey!

Hi, Blue_Tires! :hi:

Thanks for the warm welcome! :toast:

[Hekate]

371. What you started! I'm learning so much--not to mention seeing bits and...

...pieces of my personal gene pool.
:grouphug: DUers.

Hekate

[David in Canada]

377. That's great!

Hi, Hekate! :hi:

I'm glad the thread I have started along with all the insight and feedback has helped bring solace and sense to your life! :hug:

For that, this thread was truly worth it. :grouphug:

[arwalden]

389. Is Self-Diagnosis Very Wise?

It seems to me that the person diagnosing themselves might not be as well-informed or as OBJECTIVE as a professional might be.

[hunter]

397. Heh. Is homosexuality something you can diagnose yourself?

I'm teasing.

My own encounters with mental health professsionals were in the 'seventies and early 'eighties and some of these did not go well. I think that too many of them were looking for hidden things -- things like childhood sexual trauma, etc. I didn't have any such traumas. My family home was safe and loving; the problems always started when I was away from my family. I also had problems a few times with professionals who suspected I had substance abuse issues.

In any case, a diagnosis of Asperger's wasn't in the toolbox of mental health professionals at the time.

It was very clear I had some sort of disability. I was asked to leave college twice and I had a great deal of trouble obtaining or holding onto jobs. The reasons for my failures were always some sort of bizarre behavior on my part. From my own limited perspective it was usually other people who were acting bizarre. People seemed to be so capricious and arbitrary and downright cruel that I often couldn't take it. Sometimes I'd even panic in very inappropriate ways. I very well might have been one of those guys shot running away from the police for no good reason.

Which is VERY MUCH why the opinions of OBJECTIVE professionals and other people are important.

The people who helped me most were the very practical ones who, to a very large extent, seemed almost entirely disinterested in diagnoses.

"Doctor it hurts when I do this."

"Don't do that. Here's how."

The hardest thing for me to do is to trust other people. Those I do trust I depend on greatly. Occasionally I've been betrayed, but overall, it's the OBJECTIVE opinions of others that allow me to live a normal life.

[AndyTiedye]

399. But Most of the "Professionals" Don't Have a Feepin Clue!

and at this point, I don't think even a clueful professional
would be able to tell me much I haven't figured out already.

[arwalden]

407. Not A Freepin Clue, Eh? (Oh Brother!)

:eyes:

I think a lot of people who self-diagnose are just looking for excuses, something to blame, something to own.

[Spider Jerusalem]

409. I have AS, which was at first self-diagnosed.

And later confirmed by clinical diagnosis. This is surprisingly common for adult Aspies; Asperger's Syndrome wasn't a recognised diagnostic category in the US until about a decade ago, and a lot of 'professionals' are sadly clueless in diagnosing AS (which means that undiagnosed Aspies can and do get diagnoses of ADHD, schizophrenia, schizoid personality disorder, er cetera).

[arwalden]

411. So You're Saying That Self-Diagnosis IS Wise?

:shrug:

I wonder how many genuine cases of Asperger's Syndrome there are, and how many people are just using it as a convenient way to explain having social problems.

How many self-diagnosed people SAY they have "AS", without knowing for certain, when they really DO have ADHD or some other personality disorder? And instead of being treated for the ACTUAL disorder, they use their self-diagnosis as a crutch and justification?

Wouldn't these people be better served by getting expert clinical diagnosis? Surely there are incompetent people in every profession... but isn't that the whole purpose for getting 2nd opinions? The existence of doctors who aren't up to speed on EVERY malady known to man isn't really a good excuse to avoid ALL doctors and try to self-diagnose and self-treat one's condition, is it?

I still wonder about and question the wisdom of self-diagnosis.

[AndyTiedye]

400. This Post Has 400 Replies. More Than Some Forums

[cynatnite]

401. We believe my 2 year old grandson is autisitic

He's still undergoing evaluations right now, so they haven't narrowed it down yet. Some of the characteristics of this do fit him, but with what little I know, it's still early yet.

I also recently found out that autism is at epidemic levels in this country, but so little money is being spent to find out what's causing it. No one knows.

[lumberjack_jeff]

402. Congrats for seeking evaluations early

Early intervention is critically important for children with ASD. The prognosis is generally very good for children who begin therapy before age 3, most can later attend general ed classes.

[cynatnite]

404. He sees a speech therapist...

occupational therapist and will be seeing a child psychologist, too.

They will all be working together to help him and consulting each other. My daughter and I are very pleased with how well they are taking care of him, plus he is making some progress. He finally got interested in drawing. He rarely speaks at all and at times is very loving. He's very affectionate with family members.

We're all feeling a lot better about his future than when the doctor first stated his suspicion.

[graywarrior]

403. I just wrote an article on AS for my agency's newsletter.

You share this syndrome with some interesting people. Some who are suspected as having it are Bob Dylan, Bill Gates, Beethoven. How are you dealing with it?

[Beacho]

410. Self diagnosed?

WTF?