How do we know we even have a two-party system anymore?

[EstimatedProphet]

Let's say that our worst fears are true, and the voting machines are rigged. Couple that with a co-opted media, and the idea of doing away with exit-polling, and what do we have?

We have a permanent Republican majority, and no way to prove otherwise.

Everyone assumes in the back of their mind that we would be able to prove Republicans stealing the elections, but without proper, reliable exit polling, there's no evidence. There wouldn't even be a need for the contest to be close-with a compliant media, they could just say it was close, and that would be it. 100% of the country could vote for the opposition, and we would never be able to tell. the Democratic party could easily just be a cardboard-cutout of a political party, a permanent party out of power in opposition.

In 2004, the exit polling said that the election should have had very different results. Exit polling has always been the most accurate check on election manipulation. We even backed one side over the other in the Ukraine, based on exit polling.

So the media threw out the exit polling. They didn't even give substantive reasons-they just said it wasn't reliable.

How do we know the same thing won't happen in November? How do we know that we will kick the Republicans asses, like we hope we will?

How do we even know there's a real Democratic party anymore?

[MichiganVote]

1. I see the US political system as completely broken down

[Hardrada]

2. I think it has not really worked since 1994

and its faults were exposed when Clinton signed Welfare "reform" and got NAFTA through so we made a transition to global corporate rule. So our "democracy' has not been needful to the elites and just barely goes through the motions meaninglessly.

[MichiganVote]

10. I tend to look further back into the days of the Kennedy assasinations

the Nixon impeachment and the altogether unnecessary impeachment of Clinton. Everyday is a new soap opera twist in Washington and very little from the grassroots seems to touch them. Can't say I have a solution but I know in my gut that the internet is proving to be a formidable foe to those who want the public completley in the dark.

[Hardrada]

11. Good points.

I rely on the Internet for my news these days.

[MichiganVote]

12. Your avatar is one of my favorite paintings btw

[AndyTiedye]

3. There Is Still a Party, But Too Weak to Put Up Any Kind of Fight

Even at only 30% in the polls, the Republicans are odds-on favorites to keep control of Congress.
That's because they can steal the rest and everybody knows it.

[EstimatedProphet]

16. Yeah, but it isn't just that

If they really have the voting machines, and they own the press, and they control (or eliminate) exit polls, they write reality for the nation. We have no way of knowing what actually happens at that point. so, any semblance to a two-party state is coincidental. And, because there still would be the resemblance to a two-party state, they can still claim 'fairness'. I am convinced that this is their real goal.

[Earth_First]

4. 1:250,000,000

Contrast that event with what happened in the United States in the recent national election when in three battle ground states, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida, with data based on exit polls predicted an outcome in variance with the tallied vote outcomes. Major news organizations, including CNN changed their exit poll data to conform with the tallied outcomes, most of which came from paperless, electronic voting equipment. In each case the tallied outcomes favored the incumbent, George W. Bush. The odds for such an occurrence is one in 250 million for this to have occurred by chance. <1>

1. Freeman, Steven. “The unexplained exit poll discrepancy” Nov. 10, 2004.

http://www.progress.org/2004/vote32.htm

[datasuspect]

5. oversimplification

but it seems true: both parties are firmly and deeply planted in the pockets of corporate interests.

their sole purpose is to further the agenda of the rich.

[EstimatedProphet]

6. No, that's not what I mean

IF the voting machies are corrupt;
IF the media is as compliant as we think here;
If they are doing away with exit-polling

Then what we have is a one-party state dressed as a two-party state.

[datasuspect]

8. it is smoke and mirrors

advertising psychology 101. give people the appearance of choice. they do the same thing with consumer products: offer mind-numbing quantities of similar garbage so the consumer can somehow feel "empowered" through the research and selection process of their purchases. it isn't any real choice, simply the illusion of choice. false power given to the powerless. political candidates do the same shit--offering themselves as "values" candidates, etc.

the same is true with political parties in this country.

i agree with you.

[EstimatedProphet]

9. I see-yes, I agree with you on that

[sweetheart]

7. Its a 1 party system, "Kapital"

The parties are Kapital Plutocracy, no matter
the apparent choice of the slaves.

[BeFree]

13. Good question

If we don't count, how do we know we count?

Recommended for greatest..

[EstimatedProphet]

14. Exactly

The most dangerous thing that the voting machines do, IMO, is give the illusion of being honest.

[BeFree]

15. And it has fooled so many....

... it is ridiculous how many people still are deluded by the machines.

Then there are those who don't vote because they feel it won't matter. How in the heck can we convince them to vote if we can't tell them their vote will be counted?

[Greyhound]

17. No. We haven't had two parties in 20 years or more.

As stated previously, we have the illusion of choice between the Democratic and Re:puke: wings of The Corporate Party.

Obviously the Democratic Party is more palatable than the alternative, but they haven't been on our side for a long time.

[Festivito]

18. You don't get to vote for the gov you want, you get the gov you pay for.

And we don't pay for the right to vote for the government we want.
We let corporations pay for it.

And we get what we deserve for that.