Some Dems worry: Why Should they Vote...if the Machines are Corrupt?

[KoKo]

They read all about the Stolen Election 2000 and 2002 and then 2004 and they say: WHY THE HELL SHOULD I BOTHER?

If you want a discussion of the "pro's and con's" on this then check this out where a DU'er wondered why they should go out and vote:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x887283
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WHEN YOU FINISH WITH THAT READ...then CHECK THIS ONE OUT:

Why I'm Voting, While I Still Can
October 16, 2002
By TahitiNut

There has been much heat and a little light, within the Democratic Underground forum, in our nation, and in our world. In my opinion, today's "issues" (as defined by others often for their own convenience) are less about war, peace, left, right, crime, regulation, stock markets, jobs, or terrorism than about democracy itself. We live at a time when our founding first principles are under assault, and we are on the front line whether we yet realize this or not. It is not terrorists engaging in this assault; it is the force of our own fears, ignorance, and mutual animosities that threaten us, and threaten our democratic principles as a nation.

"As most of the evils which have taken place in private life, and among individuals, have been occasioned by the desire of private interest overcoming the public affections, so most of the evils which have taken place among bodies of men have been occasioned by the desire of their own interest overcoming the principle of universal benevolence and leading them to attack one another's territories, to encroach on one another's rights, and to endeavour to build their own advancement on the degradation of all within the reach of their power." — Richard Price, A Discourse on the Love of our Country (1789)

The inherent virtues and vices of a democratic system of governance are neither more nor less than the virtues and vices of the People themselves. (The same cannot be said of any other principle of governance, in any respect.) This was articulated far more completely and deeply than I could ever repeat by Hamilton, Madison, and Jay, and by Jefferson, Paine, and others.

From their labors and the sacrifices of many, we inherited a precariously balanced system of governance that sought to inhibit both a tyranny of any majority and a tyranny of any minority; that sought to protect the rights and liberties of all, while placing that very protection under our own authority where it rightfully belongs in justice and equity. Who can more rightfully claim the fruits, whether sweet or sour, of their political labors than the People themselves?

Within our system of governance, there is one and only one mechanism that's democratic: an election, wherein the sovereign authority of the People is voiced in our vote, which must be heard, fully, completely, and accurately. When it comes to democratic self-governance, this is the leash; all else is the beast.

In this, we must not compromise or retreat. Yet I've seen exactly that. Overtly and hypocritically, I have seen the voice of the People stifled, distorted, muffled, and ignored — like never before in our history. I have seen the informed will of the People thrown into disarray by a plague of misdirection, falsehoods, deception, secrecy, predatory exploitation of public media, and extensive corruption at the apex of corporate, religious, and governmental institutions. Yet I still see many of us neurotically seeking "leaders" rather than custodians, parents rather than partners, bosses rather than coworkers, demagogues rather than teachers, and entertainers rather than educators.

Rather than hearing the clear voice and informed will of the People, we are told what we think, what we want, what we know, and how ignorant and uneducated we are. After we witness an atrocity in our neighborhood, we're told to go shopping. Like repressed children, the self-proclaimed sovereign adults of governance instruct us to be seen and not heard. Then like disturbed children, we throw the tantrums of "Billy did it first!" and "My daddy can beat up your daddy!"

Much More at..........
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/10/p/1...
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[formercia]

1. Those who do not vote

have no right to complain. The vote is what defines us as citizens and barring fraud, is what makes us all equals, regardless of wealth or social standing.

[cynatnite]

3. Not voting shouldn't eliminate someone's freedom of speech

This has never settled with me. Whether a person votes or not, they have a right to say whatever they want.

[formercia]

11. If you don't vote, you're just howling at the Moon

even if we agree with you.

Just like a chickenhawk that never went.....

[BeFree]

12. Yep

Not voting is kinda anti-democratic. Kinda lame. But then there are millions of people who don't vote. Millions. Why, do you suppose, they don't vote?

[skipos]

2. We did well in VA, CA and NJ in 05. Do some dems think we should have sat

those elections out? I don't.

[KoKo]

4. Whatever our worries and they are worries...We Need to GET OUT & Vote!

or send in an Absentee Ballot or go to your Voting Place and ask for a PAPER BALLOT saying you don't trust it...and filling out WHO you want to vote for.

WHATEVER...get the hell out there...and SHOW YOUR STUFF!!! If you are there you can catalogue "what you see" for us...you can be a part of the "Observation Team" you can hang around and observe inside and outside...you can help document if you see "irregularities."

It's so important to get your butt out...that I can't SCREAM ANY LOUDER!

Many folks out there have been working are are still working "behind the scenes..against all odds" to make sure YOUR VOTE IS SECURE...but we haven't had alot of help yet we've managed to do some great stuff in many counties and so GET OUT AND VOTE...HELP US...CATALOG WHAT YOU SEE!

DO IT!!!

[Salviati]

5. Absolutely they should vote...

Even if they ARE cheating. Why? Because it forces them TO cheat. Let's not do their dirty work for them.

If we vote, they cheat and they win, there's some evidence out there somewhere... it WILL come out eventually.

If we don't vote, they win, and don't have to cheat, and there's nothing to be done about it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Precisely why the "stolen election" dimbulbs are a dangerous lot indeed

These idiots are voter suppression agents, whether they want to be or not. It's ridiculous.

[BeFree]

9. A dimbulb idiot here

I am no voter suppression agent, and neither is anyone else who is working to secure the vote. The real idiots are those who trust the pukes to count your vote.

In fact, if you don't get involved to make sure your vote is secure, then how can you tell anyone else they should go out and vote?

Either our votes count, or they don't. It looks like many dems votes in 2004 did NOT count and were even GIVEN to the pukes.

The lack of concern given to votes being stolen amazes me and makes me question how united we really are.

See:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x888442

[KoKo]

13. A small group of dedicated activists worked here

in my state of NC to get a Verified Paper Ballot Bill in place with "random audits" to be required and a certification of code that was open to verification and any Voting machine company has to verify if there has been any problem with any of their machines in any other states AND that their code is "open source" to the public if there is a recount or if anyone wants to question their code. IOW's they can't hold their source code secret and they are accountable if their is a recount due to failure of their machines.

We drove Diebold out...they hit us with a lawsuit and the Electronic Freedom Foundations sent a lawyer to help us fight it. We won...but we have to stay ever vigilant because there are those who can work against us.

We got Diebold out and our County has verifiable paper ballots which can be counted. Many other counties in NC now have better voting machines with a verifiable paper trail because of these efforts.

There are other people in other states still fighting.

VOTE...if you don't vote everywhere then why are we out there bothering...:cry:

[TahitiNut]

7. (blush)

I open my heart in an orgasm of candor and it comes back to haunt me. :silly: :dunce:
At my age, 'open-heart' usually portends something else - but I'll bypass that for a while. :evilgrin:

[KoKo]

14. good things never die....they just keep going....

:D wasn't that a Ford Commercial or something...did I botch it :silly:

[KoKo]

8. I'll give a "kick" because so many Dems have questions...and we need

to "GET OUT THE VOTE" to HAVE ANY VOICE!!! To have ANY VOICE.....should I repeat...We just have to GET OUT! Throw it out there in such NUMBERS that Polls and Media and Corrupt Machines and Bushies Crime Family and the REST...cannot IGNORE US!

Look at the Immigration Issue....MILLIONS TURNED OUT...and EVEN THE WHORE MEDIA COULDN'T IGNORE IT.

TURN OUT...WALK...REQUEST A PAPER BALLOT IF YOU HAVE NON Paper Trail Machines and WATCH...STAND GUARD IF YOU HAVE TO...FOLLOW THE ELECTIONS OFFICIALS WHEN THE POLLS CLOSE AND MONITOR THEIR EVERY STEP with the CARDS AND BALLOTS....

DO IT!!! BE AWARE....WATCHFUL ...safeguard your own vote and then safeguard others on ELECTION DAY!

:nuke: that's what it will BE if WE DON'T DO MASSIVE VOTING!!!!!!

[BeFree]

10. Thanks Koko01

I posed the question the way I did hoping to further expose the issue and sound an alarm. If a hardnosed activist like me has questions there's no telling how many votes will never be counted as cast.

I will vote, as I always have, but I am convinced that my vote could easily be stolen, mainly because so few are willing to make our votes secure. That is not a comfortable feeling. Not at all.

[KoKo]

15. Yes...

I thought you were trying to call attention to it...because many DU'ers might be wondering if or why they should vote.

And those of us who've been working on it don't want to be seen as discouraging folks away from voting but asking them to be vigilant.

I just posted what activists here in my state managed to achieve and why folks should keep at it. There is a great network of activists here on DU and out there all working on this...and we aren't gonna give up. It's been hard going...but thanks for bringin it up.

I can't figure out why it was locked since it's a big Dem issue. :shrug: but imagine it will come up again closer to the election itself. Hope so, anyway.

:hi:

[TahitiNut]

16. As one might suspect from my article ...

... my whole-hearted first reaction to any threat to our voting rights is to exercise that right vigorously and without compromise. It seems to me that any failure, for any reason, to exercise that right is to forsake that right and any complaints as well.

When I was growing up, I took to heart the fact that citizens of totalitarian states turned out to vote, no matter how rigged the 'election' was. Nobody could turn to them and say "you lost the right because you didn't care about that right enough to exercise it!"

The very last thing that I would do is 'boycott' the polls. I'd have to be on my deathbed and even then I'd insist on an absentee ballot. I have never missed voting in any general election. I never will.

Do I care that the ballot has been corrupted? You damned well betcha! There's no way I can see that staying away says "I care!" If anything, I'd ask that absolutely everyone shows up and swamps the polling places. It does NOT have to be the only thing we do. For me, however, it's the very last thing I'll give up before I breathe my last. (I could paraphrase Charlton Heston here, but I won't.)

If we lose the vote it's because we said we didn't care. Use it or lose it.

[BeFree]

17. Another fine sermon

Probably one of the best... but still misses the point. My point, anyway.

What was my point?

I have lost trust that my vote is counted correctly. No sermon, no browbeating, and no lecture about how important my vote is, is gonna return that trust.

I used what you might call a literary license in a hypothetical theory kinda way, ie, 'May not vote', to delve deep into the situation. The reaction surprised me. The responses hardly focused on the lost trust, but instead on the restriction of my freedom to vote, or not to vote. The accusations of vote suppression and anti-democracy astounded me. I guess I hit a nerve?

Having carefully prefaced my theory with the litany of having never missed a vote before was meant to show I know what the vote means, or at least used to mean, or is supposed to mean.

The problem is: we may go through the motions, but the cause and effect has been stripped away. The current process of counting my vote is, in my mind, corrupted beyond all reason.

We have lost the vote, something none of us thought would happen before our last breath.

I will go to the polls again, but I worry that too many of my fellow voters do so blindly, not realizing what we have already lost and in so doing we all lose.