There is no nice way of putting this.

[happydreams]

What in the fuck is wrong with people? Here at DU we have people talking about their family members in Iraq, brothers, husbands, etc. and sending care packages, or having bake sales to buy body armor. They cheer them when they leave and embrace them when they come home. What message does it send? Then we have everybody giving group hugs and prayers and other sentimental shit. I am the only one I have seen at DU so far that has confronted the uncomfortable reality here.

There is no nice way of putting this:

You are facilitating the murder of Iraqis by doing this. This is an all volunteer military and anybody who is in this doing this is complicit in a crime IMO, inadvertantly or otherwise. Anyone opposed to this war on moral grounds who continues to fight it is a coward, a liar and a hypocrite. Do you really think that you can cruise along and act like you are opposed to the war while at the same time facilitating its execution by enabling, even in a small way, the US military.
YOU MUST TAKE A STAND.



PS. My time is up for the day. I'll reply tomorrow

[cynatnite]

1. Bullshit

Those in the military believe in doing their duty and will do so. Family members and friends want their loved ones to come home safe.

It in no way makes them complicit in the bush regime's criminal policies.

This is obvious flame bait and insulting not only to the people who pray for their loved ones to come back, but also to vets who have served in places like Vietnam.

[happydreams]

6. I am a Viet nam era vet.

EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. EVERYONE!

[HereSince1628]

16. So like, I hope to hell you didn't frag your Lieutenant.

Damn man I'm a Vietnam vet too. That's not a license to forget what it was to volunteer or submit to the draft.

[cynatnite]

24. Agreed, but not in how the OP presents his position

Just because a medic gets sent to Iraq doesn't make them complicit in the torturing of an Iraqi in a prison.

Most in the military are no more complicit in the bush policies than you were when you got sent to Vietnam.

If you're looking for complicity, go to those individuals who committed the crimes rather than ones by association.

Besides, DUer's who have family and friends serving are in no way complicit for hoping and praying their loved ones come home safe.

Let's keep in touch with reality here.

[Ress1]

2. Yikes!

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alamom]

23. Second that !

[leeroysphitz]

4. Hey, how's the weather way up there on that teeny-tiny little

swatch of moral high ground you're standing on? Please do everyone else a favor while you are up there and quit pissing down on the rest of us...

[HereSince1628]

5. You can hate the sin and love the person.

Contemplate that one grasshopper. You are never to old for some neurogenesis.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Many of those soldiers volunteered to fight terrorism

and ended up being sent to Iraq. Not their choice.

I am adamantly opposed to this insane war but I support the troops 100%. They didn't choose to go to Iraq. No need to spit on them. Save your saliva for the real criminals in the bush administration.

[happydreams]

8. They must quit!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. And go AWOL?

Ruin the rest of their lives, risk going to prison, over a war they would rather not be fighting?

The troops are NOT the enemy. Their commander is.

[Gabi Hayes]

20. tell that to the German soldiers who were convicted at Nuremburg

they were just following orders, too

[YellowRubberDuckie]

19. You've lost your mind.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

17. THANK YOU! Well said!!

[Orsino]

9. No nice way of putting this, either.

Those folks brave enough to pledge their lives, or at least legally binding themselves to serve, were let down by a Congress who let * squander their blood, sweat and morale, and by a public who failed to put an end to the waste.

We must take a stand. The service members are more or less stuck, facing jail if they disobey. We who enjoy more of the freedom they were supposed to be defending need to use that freedom to rescue our brothers and sisters in uniform, and the people they will kill or be killed by.

All we have to do is unite to demand an end to the endless waste of human life.

[undeterred]

10. Wow. Everything is so black and white for you.

Are you against people being in the military or the US having a military? Imagine what it would be like if we did not have a military at all. I am a Quaker/pacifist but I do not take that extreme position.

Do you think that leaving a military post has no consequences?

[happydreams]

12. Consequences??? Worse than murdering innocent people??

[eyesroll]

11. So are we supposed to spit on returning soldiers or something?

Or tell DUers who ask for prayers because their spouses or children or friends are in Iraq to fuck off?

Tell a parent that their 19-year-old child in the military is horrible and that they're hypocritical if they love their child and send them care pacakges and want them to have proper body armor?

Tell someone who enlisted back when he was 18, served honorably, got discharged, and got backdoor-drafted (called up from the IRR) when he was 44 that he's a murderer and he should go to jail or go into hiding (never mind his wife and family) rather than grudgingly go?

Yes.

How very brave of you to take this stand.

[Bok_Tukalo]

13. The military serves at the descretion of the citizens of this nation

as expressed through their elected representatives. They project the United States' political will as directed by civilian leadership, and having volunteered, do not have any greater a say in how they will be used than any other citizen.

The Soldier acts for us. You are suggesting that civilian control of the military is a flawed concept and advocating mutiny which is deplorable. You want to end the war then you convince your fellow citizens to elect representatives who reflect your political position and leave the Soldier, the Sailor, and the Marine out of it.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

15. Just because you don't agree with your family members' decisions...

Doesn't mean you don't want them to come home safely from the war, nor does it mean you stop loving them. You need to get your head out of your ass. I don't support the war by any means, but I do support the troops. THAT is OK for us to do you know. I'm not going to treat these guys like the ones who came back from Viet Nam and got spit on. That is no way to treat ANYONE!
Duckie

[mike_c]

18. I agree with you 100 percent....

It's an unpopular view because most folks don't want to face the reality that the military is serving a dishonorable purpose in Iraq, but I agree that if the war is a crime, then everyone committing it is a criminal.

[WindRavenX]

21. It's not that simple

This is not a black and white issue. And when you say things like : "Then we have everybody giving group hugs and prayers and other sentimental shit" you just look angry and foolish.

Sentimental shit. Way to go champ.

[happydreams]

22. Moderators. Please let this run. I have never asked for

leeway on what I feel is a vitally important subject.

[Fenris]

25. Locking

Please refrain from posting threads which demean military personell and their families.