I'm becoming in favor of segregation.

[Cleita]

After all this hispanic and immigrant bashing going on, I am beginning to believe that white people, who don't like cultural diversity, should go live in their own communities. No one but people of European ethnicity allowed, not anywhere within those boundaries. Of course they would be all required to be card carrying Republicans.

Let them do the work done by immigrants, the janitor work, the produce picking, the domestic jobs, the restaurant jobs in their lily white communities. No one but white people should be allowed in these zones. And when these white people choose to live in their segregated communities, they can't come into our communities to work, shop or hire labor.

Of course I'm not saying all white people, just those Republican ones that don't want other people different than them, living next door to them, in their workplace, in their schools and marrying their kids. It should be a win, win situation for everyone.

[JuniperLea]

1. I've seen many of other races speak out against immigrants

We should make them honorary white people (HWP) and send them too.

I'm not saying we don't have a problem. I'm just saying I'm hating the hating that's going on.

[lastliberalintexas]

2. It's simply one of the many ways in which The Elite

keep the proletariat divided. :(

[Cleita]

3. But they would have to have their own honorary white people

compounds because the real white people wouldn't let them into the country club.

[nini]

46. delete- posted in the wrong place

oops

[Cleita]

49. That could work too, but in order for this to happen

people have to self describe themselves as assholes who want to be with other assholes, so I think we need another word.

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Allowing a balkanization of this country into ethnic groups will be its

demise. The national motto is "E pluribis unum", that is "out of many, one". We have to learn to respect differences and to keep talking, no matter how heated the rheutoic.

[Guaranteed]

14. Totally agreed.

That's what the civil rights movement was about. No one ever said it was going to be easy.

Let's put in the work, instead.

[SoCalDem]

33. Balkanization is already here.. Integration is nowhere near complete

Look at any school lunchroom
Drive by all the fancy gated communities
Look at the spiffy schoosl in areas with $500K houses
Peek into the boardrooms

[eppur_se_muova]

40. Just as "integration" means "to make whole" nt

[genie_weenie]

5. Dun dun dun Come Robin to The Hyperbole Mobile!

I assume that is the nature of your post.

I do have a question, what is a white person/people? I've never received a satisfactory answer to it as of yet.

[Karenina]

8. One whose skin is pale enough

to pass the brownbag test and BELIEVES s/he is??? :shrug:

[genie_weenie]

9. I'm sorry I don't understand the "brownbag test".

Not being sarcastic I've just never heard that term before.

[Karenina]

50. OOOOHHH? Tee-hee-hee!!!

I'm a VERY naughty, uppity brown-skinned girl who hopes you're of a mind to grok my eternally warped "oreo" sense of humor! Thank you G-Weeniekins, for taking the bait! ;-)

Back in the day, just south of the Mason-Dixon line, there were events that "anyone" could attend PROVIDED that they were NO DARKER than a paper bag at the door.

AHHH, "race." A TOTALLY artificial construct that bedevils us all...

[genie_weenie]

62. Holy Crap!

Seriously, that is very <insert expletive here>. stands and looks flabbergasted...

[Cleita]

10. Actually, they are self-described.

They are the ones who point out the others whom they don't want in their communities. So I say if they believe they are of the right Aryan purity and their peer Aryans agree, then that should be good enough for them to make an exclusive community for themselves.

[genie_weenie]

23. Self-described I can agree with but,

Aryan is an incorrect. Aryan means someone of Proto-Indo/Iranian ancestry from East of the Zagros mountains (if I remmeber correctly).

But, as an example I don't describe myself as *White* even though I have pale skin and partial ancestry from the European area. Is it acceptable for someone else to label me *White*?

[Cleita]

28. I'm hispanic but I look white because of my

Northern European ancestors on my father's side. I could pass if I wanted to. I knew an African American family who looked more like Norwegians if someone didn't know they were African American.

[Kailassa]

12. My question is, if being white conveys so much superiority,

why do whites pay to attend tanning salons?

At the end of every winter my friends put all their energy on disguising their pale skin under tans and lotions.

[Cleita]

13. Yes, but you must have the proper tan lines to prove you

really aren't that brown.

[Kailassa]

18. I see. OK, no more baking on the beach

in my birthday suit. :-(

[genie_weenie]

15. the change in attitudes

concerning what having a tan signified in the middle of the 20th century. If I remember correctly, not having a tan was prized when a tan signified you worked outdoors but after WWII, having a tan in winter signified you were rich enough to go to a warm climate instead of working and not having a tan.

[Guaranteed]

17. Without doing any real research,

my personal opinion is that skin somewhat darker than white (or whatever halfway-pigmented color) implies the offspring of a healthy, varied gene pool.

Just my evolutionist opinion.

[Fredda Weinberg]

6. I lived in a gated community. All white - 90% Democrat.

You need to be acclimated to other cultures to feel comfortable. I think it's a mistake to ascribe xenophobia to one political ideology.

[Cleita]

16. So who does the housekeeping and gardening?

Other white people? If you can't say yes, then you are not in a 100% white community. Also, are your jobs, stores and outlying agricultural fields as acceptably Aryan?

If you are 90% Democrats that means you do have the capacity to welcome diversity just because it's not there right now. So your community I don't think passes the all Aryan test.

[Fredda Weinberg]

68. Don't be absurd

The people who kept the place manicured didn't live there - and you're only fooling yourself if you think that the fear of the other is exclusively Republican.

As for me, I got out of there as soon as I could - even the 'hood where I'm staying now is too monolithic for my taste. I was happiest in a building that had more ethnicities than the UN and look forward to having that experience again.

[Ecumenist]

7. LOL!! Yes indeed, Cleita...

ALL of the work, cleaning houses, gardening, hairstyles, cooking etc, everything...BUT would the employers be forced to pay fair wages and benefits to the service providers or would the bigotted employers be forced to accept the wages paid to the (brown skinned) people have to scrape by on?:eyes: :think:

[Cleita]

20. As far as I'm concerned when they form their

communities they can hammer out what kind of laws they want to live with.

[Ecumenist]

54. That'll be interesting

I wonder if they'll find themselves in a miniwar between the haves and the havenots?

[Cleita]

55. Of course they would.

With this type of mentality you always have to have an enemy or a scapegoat to blame your problems on.

[Ecumenist]

59. Yes, indeed....

[Guaranteed]

11. I realize your post is somewhat tongue-in-cheek,

but that's a really bad idea.

It's hard work, as Chimpy would say, but we need to learn to understand each other.

[Cleita]

25. Of course it's a bad idea.

But when I see a demography of people being bashed for no real reason other than their ethnicity, then I feel people should really think about why they want to build walls to keep them out and victimize them in so many ways.

[Guaranteed]

32. The pro-immigrant people are right, of course.

To a CERTAIN extent. We can't just open our borders and let millions upon millions of people enter our country. That wouldn't work any more than deporting 11 or 12 million people.

I do think most of the anti-immigrant sentiment, here at DU or anywhere else, is based on, at the very least, subconscious ethnocentricism.

Job security is important, but we can't let that affect our culture. And, it shouldn't (that much), if we do things right.

But, we can't just throw our hands in defeat in response to the bigotry. I felt the frustration in your post. We have to keep working. We can't give into it. We have to expose people to different cultures- but DIRECTLY, through actual people, not through the "culture in a cage" events (a term I coined) that we saw back in the PC 90's. Like the ones I saw on my college campus. Cultures are not spectacles, or freak-shows. Integration can not be achieved through a choked-on anti-biotic. Attempting to integrate in an ineffective way creates a unnecessary backlash. While a backlash to the American melting-pot ideal is always to be expected, we have to do what we can to make it seamless. How to actually do that, I'm not sure.

But we're all people, we all want the same things. People will begin to understand that when they know people of other races/ethnicities AS people. Not as people dancing on a stage, not as "diversity committees" or slogans and political rhetoric.

Honestly, I think that the way things are right now is probably the best way to do things. I actually wish we weren't having this debate.

[Cleita]

35. The only way the Mexicans will stay in Mexico is if they

get a Hugo Chavez type of President who will bring economic reform there with the social programs and wages that will enable them to feed their families.

[Guaranteed]

37. ???

Did you read my post?

Look, I understand what you just said. I also happen to think that there might actually be a reason that Mexicans are entering our country illegally, and that if we TRULY- I mean actually- want to end this supply of cheap labor, the thing to do is to hit the employers.

It should be a FELONY to employ someone who is not in this country legally. You have to cut off the incentive, IF- and only IF- the desired outcome is to decrease the number of illegal immigrants.

Of course, if you just want to make it even WORSE for immigrants, and be able to pay them even WORSE wages (like a dollar an hour), then you just put the onus on them, like they're trying to do now.

[Cleita]

45. Although the employers should be fined for breaking the law,

what bothers me about this is that at times there aren't enough American workers to do a job like at harvest time. This has to be thought out better so that everyone gets a fair deal.

[Nikia]

58. I think that this is what a guest worker program should be used for

With jobs that are by their nature temporary and require many people all at the same limited time. Such businesses would have to meet certain regulations like advertising the jobs publically before importing everyone they need and paying a fair wage.
Don't some companies have an arrangement like this now (green cards for seasonal work)?

[BlooInBloo]

19. I say we sent all the white folks back to their homeland...

Oh - they don't have one?

Too bad.

:rofl:

EDIT: It's funny because white folks commonly like to play up how "diverse" they are by saying their not just ONE kind of white, they're actually SEVEN (for example) kinds of white. LOL! And it's even funnier because white folks commonly say that as if brown folks are just one thing, which is almost never true.

EDIT2: Spelling in subject.

[SmokingJacket]

21. Sorry, not relinquishing ANY of the USA to Bigot Communities. nt

[Cleita]

31. How about a moon colony?

:-)

[SmokingJacket]

38. Hmmm, if they can put their little freepy minds together and build a

rocket... well, why not?

[Cleita]

42. Oh heck give them the funding, they need and get rid of them. n/t

[Warpy]

22. Aw, hell, I've said that about WASP types for years

I grew up with an Irish Catholic mother, a Jewish last name, and they didn't even know about the Mohawk and Chinese ancestry and those po faced folk still didn't know what part of me to hate first.

There was a line in "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" that went something like "I don't know whether that ugly wall of suburbia is meant to keep us in or them out." That sums it all up rather nicely for me.

I've always sought out poorer, more ethnically diverse neighborhoods to live in. Not only are they more interesting, but the housing is generally a little more spacious for the same dollar amount and professional thieves leave the areas alone.

I'm perfectly content to leave those walled suburban neighborhoods to the type of people who are so uncivil they belong in cages.

[Cleita]

27. I lived thirty years in one neighborhood in Santa Monica.

It started out as Mexican, then white people started moving in and soon African Americans and some Asians. There was a period of five years that the neighborhood was a mixture of all. When my husband and I finally moved when he retired, the neighborhood was becoming Jewish Iranian. Each culture brought change but most of it was good.

Southern California is such a great experience in internationlism. You don't have to travel to go around the world. It all comes to Southern California.

[Deja Q]

24. Name names. And you too are engaging in glib generalizations...

plus, your support of * in this matter proves you are pro-exploitation.

Deal with the wage problem first. THEN immigration.

And even slaves had room and board. With the waves being handled out, single people cannot survive, working couples have to work LONG - very LONG - and the kids are latchkey, just like the phenomenon that started under Reagan but was hushed when the time became appropriate. That isn't good for the kids either. All that combined makes slavery look like a near-picnic by comparison.

[omega minimo]

44. Speaking of "glib generalizations"

"And even slaves had room and board."

"All that combined makes slavery look like a near-picnic by comparison."

You cannot be serious-- or informed-- or aware of how offensive that is.

[entanglement]

56. Slavery a near-picnic?

That's quite offensive and a very stupid thing to say. Stop wallowing in self-pity, loose the racism and xenophobia and then maybe your life will be much better.

[auburnblu]

69. You are nuts

Having to work hard and raise kids is worse than slavery. Why not just wave the stars and bars flag in front of folks, couldn't be much more offensive than your comparison.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

26. so in your mind

am I in that group since I am against ILLEGAL immigration? I don't have problem with controlled LEGAL immigration that limits the amount of immigrants each year because it prevents a economic depression and forces corrupt companies to pay people a living wage giving everyone an even playing field. I do feel the number of LEGAL immigrants allowed into this country should be raise from X number up to XX number. I'll bash ILLEGAL immigration till the end of time because of the economic effects it has on any country that has the problem. Anyways why is it always have to be a race or cultural thing when it comes to people disagreeing with ILLEGAL immigration, I think democrats who shout this line fall right into the plan of the right wing republicans to divide the democrats. We should all know better than to fall into that crap.

[Cleita]

29. That's up to you.

In this community it would be those who want to belong to such an exclusive enclave, as long as the other residents find them acceptable. So ask yourself if you would like this and if you do, then I guess you have made your own choice.

[earth mom]

30. Agree with you.

Even Skinner posted a thread that this issue is NOT about Racism to many on DU.

It's not to me-So I gotta say, that I'm really getting tired of this meme.

All anyone and everyone wants is an honest days pay for an honest days work-no matter who.

However, the situation is so out of control now that will probably NEVER happen.

And the end result will be that in the near futuren, the majority of us will be struggling to put food on the table....

in our little cardboard boxes AKA homes.

[Guaranteed]

34. But this is about much more than simple legality.

You're saying that if the number of legal immigrants was simply raised, you'd be okay with it?

If you're saying that, isn't your position a little shallow?

Is there a particular number that you would, economically, be okay with? Or is it that you're just a hardliner?

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

66. I think a policy should be in place that goes something like

this, it's just off the top of my head so I am sure there are holes in my idea.

Say right now we have for an example the government gives 2 million total visas issued for immigrants a year these visas last 8 years (I don't know the real number off the top of my head)

Say we double this to 4 million a year issued or what ever number and keep it as 8 years after that they can apply for citizenship or return to their native country. They have all the same rights as americans and can use all of our social services. This can be issued to refugees, college students, family members of US Citizens, Athletes, etc. This will not be used for individuals seeking to work here just for the money.

Next we hear companies and bush complain saying "their doing the jobs americans won't do" Well how about we test this theory out. Now for my thoughts on a GUEST WORKER PROGRAM, any company wanting to hire immigrants from another country have to first post the position they are wanting to fill on a database with the unemployment office and for a total of 60 days, if at this time no one qualified is found for this position and after X amount of potential qualified individuals are suggest to this company by the unemployment office. The unemployment office will not force a company to hire a US citizen but there will be a cap, a limit on how many times a year a company can apply to hire a foreign worker determined by the number of total employees a company has employed. After it's been determined that said company is qualified to look outside the country to hire, they may search through a database compiled by regional offices set up with approval from foreign governments to search for a candidate for the position. A company after finding a candidate can now hire this individual. The rights this individual will receive is the same as any other immigrant just the catch is the company is responsible for paying for any health care and social services this person may use while here in the Us. This will not be set up like the company owns this person because if a the person gets fired or quits this job, the company will be required to pay this person 6 months pay and the any social or health benefits just like it's unemployment. Now during this 6 months a immigrant must re-register with the unemployment office for a job, they will be favored for future positions with companies looking outside the country for employees. After this 6 months of unemployment and if the immigrant hasn't found a job in the system they will be sent back to their home country, on the cost of the company who brought them here. A foreign worker may only quit or get fired from 3 companies in an 8 year period. After the 3 positions they must go home and reapply to the program, this work record will be highlighted on any future attempts to apply to let companies now their background. After this 8 year period, the company is no longer responsible for this foreign workers and this individual can either apply for citizenship or move back to their home country and can not apply again to work here for another X amount of years.

Companies hiring Illegal immigrants will fined heavily, X amount for the first offense, XX amount second offense, XXX amount for the third, until they are losing money hand over fist. The x amount will be determined by the number of illegals being employed, so if the amount is $20,000 for the first offense, and a company has 5 illegals during this first offense then they will be fined $100,000. All money collected for fines will be used to finance the cost for this guest worker programs and along with a application fee for companies who are seeking a to hire a foreign workers of X amount of dollars. So no tax money will be used to pay for this program.

Hope that clears how I feel it should work, It's not perfect but it's a lot better than what's going on now. Fat chance of it happening since corporations control congress and this would never slide.

[Garbo 2004]

36. One can be Hispanic and white. One can even be Mexican and white, i.e.

i.e. of European ancestry.

I had some unfortunate business to do today and a guy was "confused" because my mom was listed as "white" although she and her family had immigrated from Mexico. They were of European ancestry, land grants, had servants and all that. And yes, btw, they came over here legally to work in silver mines, the railroad and in canneries because being landowners in Mexico didn't help much when your family was being murdered in a civil war you wanted no part of.

Don't mean to be cranky, but sometimes I tire of the common stereotypes and assumptions on all sides.

[Cleita]

41. Yes, but are those white Mexicans considered in the

same light as the mestizos? Probably not and if they came to live in America, I am sure they would have nothing to do with wanting to segregate themselves away from those other Mexicans.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kickin_Donkey]

43. I'm sure that wouldn't solve their issues ...

Once in the all-European ancestry enclave, you'd start to see those OTHER divisions: Northern Europeans vs. "swarthy" Southern Europeans, "advanced" Western Europeans vs. "backward" Eastern Europeans, Protestant vs. Catholic, Methodist vs. Baptist, white collar vs. blue collar, drinkers vs. tokers, wine drinkers vs. beer drinkers, Packer fans vs. Bears fans ...

We've seen that movie before.

[Cleita]

47. Of course that is what would happen.

But then they could keep all that xenophobia in the family and the rest of us could get on with our integrated lives.

[nini]

48. Where do all the Mexican Americans go that are saying the same things?

There are assholes in every race and culture and plenty of them are spouting off about being anti-immigration.

Let's segregate based on being an asshole - I can get in line for that.

[Cleita]

52. See my post #49

[omega minimo]

51. And allowed NO MUSIC with African/Latin/non-white ROOTS!

:nopity: :boring:

[Cleita]

53. Or ethnic food except their own.

So I hope they enjoy all that jello.

[Nikia]

57. There are already communtiies like that and ones that are nearly so

In the rural Midwewst. Some of these people are very bigotted even if they don't personally know anyone of a group that they hate. Yes, white people in these communities do the low paid work. Sometimes, when minorities move into these communities they are of a higher class than many of the white people because they moved into the community for a particuliar professional job. What is weirder is when they come to accept the particuliar individuals but still talk negatively about the group as a whole.

[sinkingfeeling]

60. I really wonder, how many pure whites there are in the country. I think

the number would be very small. Most families have such mixtures anymore.

[Cleita]

63. True but many of them won't admit it.n/t

[KoKo]

61. I understand what you say...but my folks who came here to US would

agree with you, too!

Still there are some differences. Still..the voice of the protestors is so important to SPEAK OUT.

I've posted here in GD as to why WE who Protested agains Iraq Invasion...didn't get the "equal coverage."

Please don't think my posts are in any way denying anyone's right to protest. It's the COVERAGE by the WHORE MSM...that's the Crux of the whole damned thing!

Americans/Immigrants/Illegals and all are SPEAKING OUT...But it's only THOSE the CORPORATIST WHORE MEDIA ...SUPPORT who get the Print Press and the CABLE "Air TIME!"

Workers RIGHTS....It affects ALL OF US...Immmigration...all of us benfit or or hurt by this...Outsourcing, Downsizing and Corporate CEO SALARIES ...through the roof with Stock Options and Perks.......we are all in the same drowning boat ...if we are workers.

"THEY" want to control the message while denying some of us our right to TRASH and DE-BUNK Bush/PNAC/NEO-Con...Doctrine of Pre-Emptive STRIKE...and the CABLES AND BUSH BOT CORPORATISTS ...managed to DENY those of US CITIZENS the RIGHT TO BE HEARD...when we PROTESTED AGAINST IRAQ INVASION!!!!

THEY LEFT US IN THE DUST...DID NOT REPORT...

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. I'll vote for that!

I just told a freeper the other day that he really should move to a country where there are no poor people, a perfect infrastructure and a govt that doesn't interfere or waste tax dollars. And I wished him good luck in finding such a place.

[Cleita]

65. LOL

Great answer!

[sweetheart]

67. You forgot the television

The lily white television officiality,
sacred sister guardian of the jewel,
hispanic princeess of justice and civiliy,
in a culture where racism rules.

Om Saraswati, Om Rama, Om sacred Lady
segregation renewal can be quite a tool,
of thought on channels of police stately,
buy loads of crap as they laugh painfully, "fool",

tortured to be or not be broken up racially,
are we not better greater than some cows or a mule,
fenced off from the sheep by a hedgerow tree,
all to be undone by green neo-racism fuel.
Song of innocent awakening aware,
sonnet of wishes unfounded out there.