What the MSM (and some DUers) Don't Get about Illegal Immigration.

[smoogatz]

It's simple, it's obvious, and it's the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. But if you've spent any time at all in the Southwest, you see it every day--the booming (and apparently immense) off-the-books economy entirely driven by illegal labor. We're talking agriculture here, of course, but illegals do every other kind of labor you can think of--from gutting and cutting in chicken processing plants to skilled construction work to restaurant/hotel work to lawn/garden care to childcare. Whole industries would implode if the supply of fresh illegals dried up. Without a continuous supply of illegal, undocumented immigrants, the Southwest's underground economy would collapse--dragging the "official" economy down with it. And it's not just the Southwest anymore, of course--I live in Wisconsin, where it's now commonplace to see truckloads of Latino migrant workers heading for the apple and cherry orchards at harvest time. And why, you ask, do all these workers have to be illegal for the whole thing to work? Illegals have no official status--that's why. Employers can pay them whatever they want--or not pay them at all. Employers don't have to pay them benefits, or pay into unemployment, workmen's comp or Social Security. All illegal labor is off the books, which saves time, money and red tape. And if an illegal worker gets injured or sick on the job, too bad--you never saw them before. If an illegal worker causes trouble or (God forbid) tries to organize his fellow workers, call the INS. Illegal immigration is domestic outsourcing, driven by American industry's apparently insatiable demand for cheap labor. The ONLY way to stop it is to universally enforce America's labor laws as they apply to employers, and that's not going to happen as long as agribusiness and the construction industry have as much political clout as they currently do. All of the current political gesticulating is a red herring, nothing more than cynical posturing for the wingnut base. In fact, as far as industry in the Southwest (and anywhere else illegals are employed) is concerned, the status quo is working just fine, thank you very much.

[ugarte]

1. Not to mention the billions in drug money that come into the region

Lots of money laundering going on. A real boost to the economy, though.

[smoogatz]

4. Small potatoes, comparatively.

All the drug-importation hysteria in connection w/ immigration is a red herring. It's a separate issue, really. But blame the same industries that rely on the current open-border system (and pay lobbyists to enforce it in congress) for the influx of imported illegal drugs in the Southwest and elsewhere.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. I read one article which postulated the opposite --

that some drug smugglers have dropped that business because people smuggling is cheaper, easier and more profitable. The product transports itself, and if caught the smuggler passes himself off as an illegal and is deported, instead of facing a prison term as when caught with a half-ton of MJ.

[MADem]

2. We LOVE cheap labor--we hire Jamaicans in Cuba at a penny a pound!

Filipinos, too!!! Screw that minimum wage!!!!!!! Halliburton does this in other parts of the world, as well. The GOVERNMENT exploits these folks....so business feels safe:

Like many of the 1,000 foreign workers -- mainly from Jamaica and the Philippines
-- his normal salary of $316 a month is less than half the U.S. minimum wage, but
still more than what he earned back home. "Before I was doing the job for the experience because the pay was bad," said the 33-year-old who left a farming job in Manila to work on contract with Burns & Roe, based in Oradell, New Jersey. "But since the prisoners arrived, more things are
happening. We can make more money."

....."We couldn't run the base without these folks," said base commander Capt. Robert
Buehn. "Their wages are lower than U.S. minimum but on the international market
their jobs are still sought after."

Because Guantanamo is in Cuba, on foreign soil, companies are exempt from U.S.
labor laws but must run checks on prospective employees.

Many workers get free housing, which ranges from apartments to hotel-size rooms
shared by two or three. The contracts -- normally for 18 months -- also include
meal subsidies and airfare home. ...

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/workers.htm

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. The thing is

If they upgrade their machinery, they don't even need the cheap labor to work the fields. They're just so fucking cheap that they won't even make the investment.

[smoogatz]

5. Ag is only a part of the big picture.

If you've ever been to SoCal, AZ, NM or NV you'll know what I'm talking about. Latinos do ALL the physical work, including skilled construction work like framing, concrete finishing and stuccoing. And they do it for far less, obviously, than unionized US nationals would.

[MindPilot]

6. Have you seen "A Day Without A Mexican"?

Great film that perfectly explains your points, and funny as hell.

http://www.adaywithoutamexican.com/index1.htm

[Dhalgren]

7. It's 21st century slavery and everyone supports it. The same

lame excuses for this system were used 200 years ago to justify that form of slavery: the slaves are better off living and working here as slaves than they would be living in squalor in their native land; look at all of the benefits that come along with living and working in this great country - it's actually to the slave's own good... That's why we must increase the minimum wage to a living wage and enforce all of the current labor laws and severely punish any breaches of the law. We must require that either employers or the government provide health insurance for ALL WORKERS, period. Then American workers would start competing for all of these jobs and the foreign workers would be treated like human employees instead of like chattel. "Fair pay for hard work" seems like an American value, doesn't it?

[endarkenment]

8. Your facts are incorrect.

Yes wage laws ought to be enforced.

"Employers don't have to pay them benefits, or pay into unemployment, workmen's comp or Social Security."

Check your facts. SS currently has a 300+B surplus in their 'suspense account' which is generally considered to be mostly phantom ss accounts for undocumented workers. They pay in, they get nothing in return.

[smoogatz]

12. I don't doubt that your figures are correct.

Nor would I be surprised if they were only a small fraction of what they ought to be, if all the undocumented workers in this country were on the books and part of the "official" economy. No doubt big corporations like Tyson and Wal Mart create phantom SS accounts for a percentage of their illegals, to which they then contribute token sums (relatively speaking). But the rich gringos in Rolling Hills and Palos Verdes Estates aren't paying the SS employer contribution for their yard man, cleaning lady or nanny. Nor is the Fly By Night roofing company, the Japanese noodle joint (the entire kitchen and dishwashing staff of which is Latino), or any of the other millions of small-medium size businesses in the Southwest that depend on illegals to make a profit.

[Bridget Burke]

9. So I say all the workers need a better deal.

Unions are often weak in Texas; fairer labor laws would help lots of folks down here. Let some of the "illegals" have a shot at citizenship--or at least regularized status--so they aren't so vulnerable. This would anger the Republican bosses & the Republican idiots who talk about a Big Fence.

Perhaps our economy needs to evolve. Deporting everyone wouldn't work. But sticking with the status quo won't, either.

[xchrom]

10. you might find this enlightening

As Congress debates immigration reforms, some experts say the most extreme proposal — deporting millions of illegal immigrants — would be a huge legal and logistical morass, and ruinously expensive, too.
Officials at the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, which would be responsible for deportations, said they have no projections on what it would take to rid the United States of an estimated 12 million people.
But the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank in Washington, has put the cost at $215 billion over five years.
The study assumed that a crackdown would prompt a quarter of the nation's illegal immigrants to leave voluntarily, leaving 9 million men, women and children to deport.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060407/ap_on_re_us/immigra...



i'm not sure the link will still get the story -- but i saved the numbers

[Virginia Dare]

11. This is the dichotomy that the Republicans and big business..

want people to see. Deporting everyone won't work, amnesty is wrong, so the guest worker program is the perfect compromise. That is what they are banking on.

[mattclearing]

13. That is why, ultimately, nothing will get done.

This will go away in time. Guaranteed.

[TahitiNut]

15. The blackmail of corporate welfare.

This is the way the logic goes ... we "can't afford to let them fail" so we shovel out public dollars to subsidize the business. Millions and billions ... and nothing gets better.

How long has the US taxpayer paid agricultural subsidies? Did those dollars go to raising the pay of the laborers in the fields and packing plants? Nope. They went into the pockets of agribusiness and 'professionals' who bought into tax-avoidance schemes.

The anti-abolitionist arguments during the first half of the 19th century went exactly the same way. The agrarian economy of the South would collapse if slavery were abolished. Heaven forbid! So we kept slavery for seventy-five years after the adoption of our Constitution.

[smoogatz]

16. The big, bad result of enforcing labor laws would be price increases

on everything from fruit to housing. The cost of doing nothing is the perpetuation of a corrupt and immoral system that exploits the working poor, citizen and immigrant, legal and illegal. I'm willing to pay a little more for produce and chicken parts, if it means that we ultimately strengthen the middle class and end the exploitation of foreign workers.