How Soon do You Expect American Society to Collapse

[bryant69]

I'm talking about something along the lines of what we saw in the gulf after Katrina, but nationally and more long lasting. A breakdown in society, leading to a new sort of tribalism or localism.

Bryant
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[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. American society

began collapsing in the early 60's. Maybe November 22, 1963.

[bryant69]

12. I think America is always collapsing and rebuilding itself.

The nature of any society really.

[Jim Warren]

13. Hope so

but sometimes you just can't rebuild with rotten lumber.

[davekriss]

16. I was going to say the collapse started in 1973...

...with the oil embargo. The bottom-90% of our nation has seen their standard of living tread water or sink (depending where you sit in that 90%) although, over that same time period, productivity more than doubled (the top 10% -- and moreso the top 1% -- have successfully appropriated for themselves the lions share of value growth). Our sweat, labor, thought increasingly appropriated by the few. But after thinking about this, yes, our decline began with the assassination of JFK -- that obstructionist to furtherance of the agenda of the military-industrial-complex.

[SheilaT]

2. How are you defining collapse?

Our power has peaked, although it's not obvious if you look at the amount of money we spend on defense -- more than the entire rest of the world combined.

As bad as the inequities are here, people are still flocking to this country either because conditions are so bad wherever they're leaving, or there are better opportunities for them and their children here.

Despite all the hysteria, and despite the very real effects of Hurricane Katrina, life still goes on very much unchanged for the vast majority of people. Even those whose jobs have disappeared overseas are quite unlikely to revolt in the streets. Our schools are not as terrible as we're led to believe, and foreign students still come here because our higher education is probably the best in the world.

For me, the key is this November's election. If, as it would appear right now, Democrats take back at least one house of Congress, I'll have renewed hope. But, if as I expect, the right wing steals yet another election, and there is not rioting in the streets, we are going to very seriously consider moving.

What's more likely to happen, in my estimation, is that we'll continue the long, slow slide into historical oblivion.

[bryant69]

3. Collapse is a long time continuation

Of hurricane Katrina like conditions - our national economic and political services are no longer functioning - we are reduced to taking care of ourselves as best we can in our individual communities.

[SheilaT]

5. I'll go along with that definition.

And by that, I don't expect to see those services break down completely in my lifetime. We will see a continued erosion of such things as medical care, but a breakdown of food distribution? Of energy (electricity, gas, etc) distribution? Unless there's a serious nuclear war, or a terrible plague which kills around half of the population, no.

Of course, even though I don't personally expect such catastrophic scenarios to occur, I could always be wrong.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. My question is the definition of American society.

I can see a possibility of balkanization of America. Given the right push, from peak oil to global warming to an immigration war with Mexico, the divides that now seem nearly intractable could become acutely dangerous. And if a Dixie/West coalition decided to break away, how many would take to arms to stop it? We could become three viable nations -- West Coast, Northeast and Upper Midwest, and Dixie/West/Central. A big chunk of the Southwest, Southernmost California, southern Arizona & New Mexico, could, seeing the disintegration of the US, opt to re-unite with Mexico.

Except for the Mexican provinces, the country would still all be American society, but would be 3 new American states.

Don't dismiss it out of hand -- it's happened before to other nations. And anybody who doesn't think there's big differences between the regions hasn't lived for an extended time in each of them. We've been forming into different nations, with different cultures and even dialect and language, since the country was founded. I think that 1861-1865 will be remembered only as the First Civil War.

[SheilaT]

19. Having lived in various parts of the country

I'm quite well aware of the clear differences. Indeed, I have my own strong opinions about which parts of this country I consider worth living in.

I'm not dismissing such a breakup out of hand, but I really don't see those kinds of sectional differences as anywhere near that strong. As for this kind of think happening before in other countries, you're right so far as that goes, but those are examples of very different groups of people being pushed together into nationhood, and then separating out again. Texas notwithstanding, this is not a country composed of different ethnic/nationality groups who have a sense that they are residing in their native homeland which ought to be returned to that state. With all due respect, of course, to the original inhabitants of this continent.

I guess this is simply something we disagree about, and of course time will tell how things turn out.

[ThomWV]

4. Societies Don't Collapse, they Disperse

Or they are killed off wholesale.

It is Governments that collapse, not societies.

[The2ndWheel]

6. All depends on the energy

We need more and more of it to keep order.

If we don't have enough, we have more potential slaves today then ever before. Also, more potential guards making sure we slaves don't get upset. And there will be guards, because big guys have to feed their kids too.

[DainBramaged]

7. It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

[stevietheman]

8. I would rather work to prevent collapse than vote in this poll. n/t

n/t

[DainBramaged]

9. ok, can I have all of your possessions since you'll be working?

[stevietheman]

17. I realize a collapse may be coming, but I'd rather help to avert it.

Meanwhile, you're acting strange. Stop it. Hehe.

[DainBramaged]

20. Give me your stuff, "How much for the little girl? Sell me your children!"

[ermoore]

11. Cheery bunch aren't we. - n/t

[Armstead]

14. Depends on how you define "collapase"

I doubt we'll collapse as in fall apart.

But we are collapsing as a "Superpower" due to our stupid misuse of power and our stupid economic policies and values.

It may not be the worst thing if we ollapse as a Superpower. Then we could stop spending so much time and energy on maintaining an empire, and actually focus on rebuilding our own country, like most otehr second-rate democracies have done.

[slackmaster]

15. The Civil War was the last real collapse

Even the Great Depression brought out the best in many people.

[KoKo]

18. Some kind of Civil War in the next ten years. Will start around

2008 when the full view of what Repug rule and Dino compliance has wrought.

If we worked really hard we could avoid the worst of it...but that would mean that the Power Center holds fully accountable those who are involved with the insane policies which have governed us...or "ruled" us up to now starting with Nixon who should have been fully impeached and his cohorts fully exposed.

But, barring that the Power Center will ever allow it's misbegotten policies to ever be fully prosecuted...I think there's a hard row to hoe ahead. We won't collapse but some kind of low grade Civil War will go on.
Not like the previous one but that will depend on how our Financial System holds up when it all comes out about what's been going on there.

:shrug: 2 Cents...here.

[baby_mouse]

21. When YHWH invokes the Holy Staple-Remover,

Currently jealously Guarded by the Holy Ghost to finish off his mountain of Holy Paperwork.

[sweetheart]

22. prison riots

The new american underclass is no longer like the content
enfranchised ancient working class of old,
a hundred million's ready to show thier discontent,
no longer passive, much more inflated, hardened, embold.

Burning mcmansions flaming out of every vent,
lit afire from the tinder-dry remaining watershed gold,
global warming is a primary event,
and corporate denizens of hell are all sold.

Flamed out hummers in every parking right,
an american cultural revolution, glory to mao's of old,
republicans strung up on dead crossing lights,
rotting away whilst donkey carts walk at the speed of mold.
Dragging away the toxic remains of empire,
weapons dumps filled, a whole lot of fire.

[omega minimo]

23. Self-indulgent thinking for spoiled American brats who don't believe it

will happen

[jukes]

24. i can see the end of the rope

and there's no knot on it...

[Swamp Rat]

25. I like to vote... meanwhile, I am going to builf myself a raft.

Maybe I'll get an Old Town canoe and a kayak too... with space for my dog.

[lovuian]

26. I believe in the American people and have hope that we will

get over this too...

[Selatius]

27. The US will implode within 150 years time. Take that to the bank.

If the US does not change course on the economic front and on the social front, this nation will disintegrate at the worst, fall into bankruptcy at the least, and the peoples of this land will suffer the same fate the Russian people suffer now.

We have a culture of excess that rewards the greediest among us with multi-million dollar paychecks and stock options. We have corporate execs who make, in relative terms, several hundred times that of those who need the most help. We live in a culture of superficial pursuits and materialism. We are led by leaders who seem more interested in serving their bankers and financiers who run the corporations and leaders who are more interested in their own grip on power than on the needs of the poorest among us and of the middle class in general.

This cannot continue forever. It is greed that is destroying this country. It will destroy this country long before any foreign enemy could through guns and bombs.