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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:49 PM
Original message
Illegal immigrants demonstrating in Mexico would be imprisoned !
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=papers&code=06-D 18

Pursuant to Article 33, "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country". This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, N.Y. and elsewhere in recent days.

-more-
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:51 PM
Original message
The link isn't working
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well yeah that's what we want here isn't it?
People imprisoned for speaking out?
You do realize that many of these protesting were LEGAL citizens of the US? Which means they are CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED a right to protest?
Or does that matter?:eyes:
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400Years Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. no shit
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. How do you put 11 million+ in jail all at one time?
I would be interested to see how that might work.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well those prison jobs guarding them would be mighty nice jobs
Don't you think?:sarcasm:
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sorry, this link may work...
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Nice source you use there KAT
Donald Rumsfeld approves of it heartily:

" Mission of the Center for Security Policy
To promote world peace through American strength.

"Through the years, the Center for Security Policy has helped ensure a vigorous national security debate and, in so doing, has strengthened our national security, with energy, persistence and patriotism."
- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
4 March 2001

:puke:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. and it's President is a Ronald Reagan appointee
In April 1987, Mr. Gaffney was nominated by President Reagan to become the Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy, the senior position in the Defense Department with responsibility for policies involving nuclear forces, arms control and U.S.-European defense relations. He acted in that capacity for seven months during which time, he was the Chairman of the prestigious High Level Group, NATO's senior politico-military committee. He also represented the Secretary of Defense in key U.S.-Soviet negotiations and ministerial meetings.
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. This link better...I hope...
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Finally the link that works...
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. The author is Vice-President of "Information Operations"
Edited on Thu Apr-13-06 03:56 PM by Marie26
for this defense think tank. This think tank that is connected with & endorsed by Donald Rumsfeld. The author (James Waller) is not a PhD. in Latin American history, or a specialist in international affairs, or any other kind of expert on Mexico. I find his job description interesting. "Information Operations" is a unit of the military that is devoted to spreading propaganda and psy-ops. This "Center for Security Policy" is nothing more than a propaganda arm for the Pentagon. In 2002, Waller wrote another article on the importance of using propaganda to "win hearts and minds" for the war effort.

Losing a Battle for Hearts and Minds
By J. Michael Waller

Will the U.S. military's hard-fought gains against international terrorists be undermined because the people back in Washington still don't understand how to win hearts and minds? That's what some supporters of President George W. Bush are beginning to fear as the U.S. government finds itself incapable of waging effective public-diplomacy and political-warfare campaigns abroad.

Across the federal government, the situation is the same: A national-security and foreign-policy bureaucracy that is managing the military and diplomatic dimensions of the war effectively is bumbling and botching the crucial information campaigns around the world needed to discredit terrorists and their supporters and foster support for the military effort...

To date, most U.S. public-diplomacy and information operations in support of the war effort have been piecemeal, tactical and mostly reactive instead of strategic, comprehensive and anticipatory. A long-term strategy has yet to be developed, according to administration officials. That, critics say, leaves the enemy to define the terms of debate and severely complicates U.S. diplomacy and military planning.

"The United States ought to have a political-warfare capability, which is another corollary of public diplomacy, but there is no place in the U.S. government that considers it its business to conduct political warfare abroad," Lenczowski says.

(James Waller - "Losing a Battle for Hearts and Minds.")
http://ics.leeds.ac.uk/papers/vp01.cfm?outfit=pmt&folder=10&paper=1525


Army "Information Operations" web-site - http://www-tradoc.army.mil/tpubs/pams/p525-69.htm

Interesting miltary blog on the use of "Information Operations" in the media. - http://armchairgeneralist.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/03/information_ope.html

Check this out: From the National Security Archives - In 2003, Rumsfeld personally approved a secret "Information Operations" plan to spread false propaganda to the foreign media. At the time, this raised an outcry because these false stories could easily make it into the US press. Rumsfeld denied, though, that this could happen. So, Rummies favorite think tank has a branch for "Informations Operations" at the same time that Rummie approves a "Information Operations" plan to spread false propaganda. This think tank is a part of spreading that false propaganda on Rumsfeld's behalf. Now, why would the Pentagon want people to be mad at Mexican immigrants? By quoting this site, aren't you falling into the Defense Dept. propaganda?

The Archives has a copy of the Rumsfeld plan & wrote a description of the memo on its website.


Rumsfeld's Roadmap to Propaganda - copies of secret Rumsfeld "Informations Operations" road-map.

A secret Pentagon "roadmap" on war propaganda, personally approved by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in October 2003, calls for "boundaries" between information operations abroad and the news media at home, but provides for no such limits and claims that as long as the American public is not "targeted," any leakage of PSYOP to the American public does not matter.

Obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by the National Security Archive at George Washington University and posted on the Web today, the 74-page "Information Operations Roadmap" admits that "information intended for foreign audiences, including public diplomacy and PSYOP, increasingly is consumed by our domestic audience and vice-versa," but argues that "the distinction between foreign and domestic audiences becomes more a question of USG intent rather than information dissemination practices."

The Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, amended in 1972 and 1998, prohibits the U.S. government from propagandizing the American public with information and psychological operations directed at foreign audiences; and several presidential directives, including Reagan's NSD-77 in 1983, Clinton's PDD-68 in 1999, and Bush's NSPD-16 in July 2002 (the latter two still classified), have set up specific structures to carry out public diplomacy and information operations. These and other documents relating to U.S. PSYOP programs were posted today as part of a new Archive Electronic Breifing Book.

Several press accounts have referred to the 2003 Pentagon document but today's posting is the first time the text has been publicly available. Sections of the document relating to computer network attack (CNA) and "offensive cyber operations" remain classified under black highlighting.


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB177/
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Have you noticed that the OP
has been here a few times to repost the link--but not to offer anything else?:eyes:
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yeah, it's odd. nt
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Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. yes, and they'll kill you for having a joint in Malaysia
but what does that have to do with the US, where we live, where we can conceivably do something about the way things are run?

I'm not sure what your point is. So far, all I have is that the Mexican government is hateful toward immigrants, so we should be too. No thanks.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. Oh wait???Lookie here....again I add...NICE SOURCE
:rofl:
http://elitewatch.911review.org/CSP.html
>>>>>snip
The biggest beneficiary of Ballistic Missile Defense among think tank’s is Frank Gaffney’s Center for Security Policy, which has received over $2 million in corporate donations since its founding in 1988, mostly from major Star Wars contractors like Lockheed Martin and Boeing.



Gaffney’s board is a virtual "Star Wars Hall of Fame," with members such as long-time Star Wars booster and weapons scientist Edward Teller; former Reagan science advisor George Keyworth; Charles Kupperman, Vice President for Washington operations of Lockheed Martin’s Space and Strategic Missiles sector (one of five Lockheed Martin executives on the Center’s board); William Bennett, free-lance moralist and co-director (with Jack Kemp) of the conservative organization Empower America; Christopher Cox, Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives; Edward Feulner, President, Heritage Foundation; John David Hoppe, chief of staff for Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS); Jon Kyl, Republican Senator from Arizona; James Roche, Corporate VP and General Manager of the Northrop Grumman Corporation; Curt Weldon (R-PA), chairman, Military Research and Development Committee, U.S. House of Representatives; and Pete Wilson former governor of California and potential Republican presidential candidate in the year 2000. This impressive web of connections in government, industry, and with other conservative think tanks makes Gaffney’s Center the nerve center of the Star Wars lobby.



foreignpolicy-infocus.org/papers/micr/star_warriors_body.html

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. oops...busted
:rofl: :rofl:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Hit and run you think?
:shrug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. As is often said here, we don't want to be LIKE THEM
But usually the "them" are wingnuts who deliver hate speech, reactionary ideas, and other negativities.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Are you saying Immigrants should
Knowtheir place? Sorry Kat, not gonna happen, They pick our food, build our homes, serve our food, care for our young and elderly, and someone wants to call them felons, andNot have them take it personally? WTF?
republicans are doomed
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Mexico is a wonderful country in many ways....
But I don't think we need to copy their government's policies.

Not all our demonstrators were "illegals"--should everybody have been arrested & asked to produce their green cards? That would be tough for those who were born here.

(Nice source!)
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NorCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. I LOVE this argument
Yes, we SHOULD be more like Mexico, we should immediately curb our first amendment rights and 200 years of democratic history to keep 11 million illegals from becoming citizens.

That's what we should do, shred the constitution until we have one that more closely resembles that of Mexico and then this illegal immigration problem with Go away!

Hooray!!!!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. KAT119, how does this square with your hobbies,
"LOVE- FREEDOM-JUSTICE-EQUALITY-PEACE"?

I'm getting mixed messages here. :shrug:
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. Not really
Edited on Thu Apr-13-06 02:22 PM by Marie26
Nice source. Article 33 of the Constitution was aimed at preventing foreign meddling in Mexican elections. Specifically, to stop US meddling in Mexican elections. The US has a long history of trying to influence or rig elections in Latin America. And if we didn't like the leader they elected, we weren't above supporting a coup to overturn the election (Chile, Nicaragua, etc.) In 1913, the US ambassador to Mexico entered into a plot to overthrow Madero, the new Mexican President & replaced him w/a hated military dictator. At that time, a few families held nearly all the wealth & resources of the nation & many of these families were foreign-born. The 1917 Constitution was written after the Mexican revolution, when Pancho Villa led Mexican citizens & farmers to toss the oligarchy out of power. So, Mexicans were very sensitive to the possibility that their political system could be dominated by a foreign powerful country. This Article was intended to protect the Mexican elections & political system. I think it's important to know the historical context of this stuff instead of randomly quoting a foreign Constitution w/o including any perspective. I've never heard of it being used to "imprison illegal immigrants who protest".
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. Many of the ones protesting were not even illegal
but speaking for those who have no voice. :eyes:
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