No virgins for Moussaoui!

[Filius Nullius]

I do not believe Moussaoui's wish to become a martyr should be granted. He should receive the same number of life sentences as the number of people who died on 9/11 and should be put in solitary confinement for the rest of his life so that he cannot hurt other prisoners or guards or be hurt.

Part of his sentence should be for several eminent Muslim imams to lecture him publicly about the error of his ideas regarding the Koran. Hopefully, they would explain that the Koran does not countenance killing innocent people, regardless of their faith. They should then make it abundantly clear to him that, unless he repents (and maybe even if he does repent), he will spend eternity in the Muslim version of hell. Seventy-two virgins in heaven? The first thing they should tell him is, "No virgins for you, bud. Zero!" Second, "You are not going to heaven; in fact, you should expect exactly the opposite."

This might take the smug look off his face, give him something to think about for the rest of his miserable life, and make him so uncomfortable that he will really start to squirm.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I agree

why create another martyr? And if he is, indeed, visited by imams, shaykhs, and murshids, there is a chance, God willing, that he will come to sanity and realize the enormity of what he has done.

BTW, welcome to DU :hi:

[Wcross]

2. Torture or excecution?

This might take the smug look off his face, give him something to think about for the rest of his miserable life, and make him so uncomfortable that he will really start to squirm.

I'm glad I'm not on the jury that has to decide that one.

[Filius Nullius]

16. Torture or execution?

If this amounts to torture, so be it! Actually, I think he should be sentenced to attend Koran 101 or Remedial Koran classes every day. Maybe it should be piped into his cell when he is not actually in attendance.

[cynatnite]

3. Agreed, but not for the same reasons

He won't be just a martyr. If the US executed him, he'll be a martyr that was murdered by the United States. I think he would be considered more of a hero to many in the middle east than the suicide bombers.

This is the only time I can say that executing this individual would embolden the terrorists.

[BrklynLiberal]

8. and, it would seem that he WANTS to be executed.

[cynatnite]

14. I've heard that

Common sense dictates that the US should NOT execute this man, but we all know common sense isn't exactly an acceptable way to think with some people.

[patrice]

4. Definitely!

I really hope he doesn't get the death penalty.

[Gabi Hayes]

5. talk about the world's BIGGEST strawman.....what about

they guy they've been torturing for how many years now?

the guy who planned it, who they have in custody, who's yet to have been charged?

is he even alive?

what's his name?

is he ever going to have a trial?

[Boojatta]

9. Was that "straw man" in the sense of misrepresentation of an opponent's

position that is easier to attack than the opponent's actual position?

[Gabi Hayes]

11. OK...how about red herring?

or sacrificial lamb?

you do see what I was getting at, yes?

where the F IS this guy?

[Boojatta]

18. "Red herring" might be what you had in mind.

I don't know where that guy is.

It occurred to me that you might have meant the usual sense of "staw man" and I simply didn't understand. I think you cleared up the confusion.

[Filius Nullius]

12. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

That would be Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, chief of operations for al-Qaida and mastermind of Sept. 11 attacks. You are right. He deserves to be fried. Moussaoui is just a terrorist wannabe. He is do deranged that not even the terrorists wanted to have him on board.

[Christa]

6. I don't agree

he did no more wrong than the CIA and FBI and members of congress who were warned about an attack.

[DefenseLawyer]

7. Can someone explain

exactly what this guy had to do with 9/11? There seems to be a lot of contradictory evidence out there. Has the government ever claimed that they think he was supposed to fly the "fifth plane"? I know he said that in court, but he doesn't strike me as the most reliable source.

[Gabi Hayes]

13. he had about as much to do with the actual events on 911 as, oh, say...

Saddam Hussein

[0007]

17. Yeah, I don't get it and all of the hyperbole certain posters would

like to see him tortured and executed. He had nothing to do with 911

[Filius Nullius]

22. Moussaoui to have piloted the "fifth plane"

Yeah, and I'm the fifth Beatle.

[NNN0LHI]

10. Will the Christians who kill him get to be with their big guy in the sky?

"Thou shall not kill"

Don

[jbnow]

15. If he gets the death penalty

it looks pretty bad for the FBI people who refused to investigate him or seize his computer or take the other warnings that could likely have stopped the attack. Obviously they will charge and try them too and they'll be death penalty eligible.

This is just a joke. It was the prosecutors witnesses that talked about this on cross examination, how they tried to get higher ups to look into these things, to look at the evidence and that if they had done so there was a good chance the attacks could be stopped. One was moved to tears while testifying.

None of the FBI who failed were charged or fired, rather they got promoted. Yet this mentally unbalanced man with dubious ties to this actual attack gets executed? What a farce.

[Filius Nullius]

26. Moussaoui deserves a more creative punishment than death

Yes. Moussaoui obviously has a fervent death wish. It should not be granted. It would be an absolutely hellish penalty for him to have to listen to scripture and verse from the Koran telling him that his 9/11 associates violated some of the most sacred precepts of Islam and had, in the process, committed some of the most odious, abominable and execrable acts possible for members of the Muslim faith. Since he did not actually participate in any of the deeds, his own degree of complicity was less than their by an infinitesimal amount. Nevertheless, he committed a mortal sin by failing to reveal the plot to the authorities in time to prevent it from being carried out. He should be told again and again, every single day, for the rest of his life that the only chance he has of avoiding eternal damnation is to repent his crime and spend the rest of his life atoning for his sins by doing everything he possibly can to make amends (which will be fiendishly difficult from solitary confinement). If he could be turned in this fashion and convinced to speak out on videos played throughout the Muslim world in sincerely repentant condemnation of terrorist acts, perhaps some good could come from the horror of 9/11. If it takes a complete lower-level reformating and subsequent reprogramming of his "hard drive" to accomplish this objective, that is what should be done.

[Boojatta]

19. If Moussaoui were an advanced robotic device, wouldn't he be studied?

...should be put in solitary confinement for the rest of his life so that he cannot hurt other prisoners or guards or be hurt.

Will he be permitted to communicate with others? If his conversations were recorded then could something be learned about the way his mind works? Could what is learned be used to compose words, images, and sounds that can influence people who are in some respects like Moussaoui?

Part of his sentence should be for several eminent Muslim imams to lecture him publicly about the error of his ideas regarding the Koran.

Are these eminent Muslim imams also going to lecture the whole world and force everybody in the world to listen?

[Filius Nullius]

21. Moussaoui as "advanced robotic device"

Your post is obviously dripping with tongue-in-cheek insouciance, so I will respond in kind.

I suppose your question about whether Moussaoui would be studied if he were an advanced robotic device is purely hypothetical since he is not, as far as I know, an android, cyborg or bionic man. But what if he is actually from a parallel bizarro universe where his behavior is normal? Perhaps his lawyers' failure to raise the "bizarro" defense denied him effective assistance of counsel. My god, what a brilliant appellate strategy! Sometimes I amaze myself. Someone take a telegram to Moussaoui's lawyers.

I can see no reason to let Moussaoui communicate with others. As best I can tell, his mind is profoundly defective, sort of like the "Abbey Normal" brain in Young Frankenstein. Trying to study it could have a seriously corrosive effect on one's thought processes and is therefore inadvisable.

The Koran lecture was just the worst punishment I could imagine for someone like Moussaoui. However, since the rest of the world hasn't been convicted of any involvement in 9/11, I doubt that the judge can order everybody in the world to listen.

[Stephanie]

20. except that, he didn't kill anybody

maybe he wanted to, but he didn't do it

[Filius Nullius]

24. Do you only get to "take the Fifth" after a crime has been committed?

You know, the government's main argument in the guilt-or-innocence phase of the trial seemed to be that Moussaoui should have fessed up sooner to the crime so that the plot could have been stopped. The prosecution might have a Fifth Amendment self-incrimination problem with that since he is being prosecuted for being part of the conspiracy. Of course, Moussaoui has been only too happy to incriminate himself during the trial, but can he be prosecuted under our Constitution for failing to implicate himself at an earlier time? I wonder if his lawyers raised this as a defense. Does anyone know?

[tlsmith1963]

23. Here is Why I Can't Stand Him

He thinks that all Americans are bad people who love President Bush. He thinks that we should all die. Well hey, buddy, excuse me. Not all Americans are evil imperialists who love GWB. There are plenty of people here who think America has a lot of improving to do. We are called commies & traitors for it, but there you go. Why do you want to kill us, too? I guess that you are so brainwashed you can't see that Americans have many different points of view. That's what I'd like to say to him.

Tammy

[TahitiNut]

25. Virgins are wayyyyy over-rated.

:shrug:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

28. OMG

you crack me up!

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

29. (grin) Well, it's true.

Back "in my day" we called such thinking a "hang up" - something wrong in the head. As a male, I find the obsession about "virgins" to be slightly sleazy ... about as sleazy as some obsession on "easy" or "loose." The stereotypical view of virginity being somehow "innocent" or "pure" seems to imply that sexual intimacy is "guilty" or "polluted" - an implication I totally reject. I doubt there's much that's more emotionally healthy than loving and making love. I regard those males who obsess about women being virgins as being akin to predators - over-controlling and insecure in themselves. There's something fundamentally disgusting to me about the 'traditions' of hanging a blood-stained sheet or wearing "virginal white" in a marriage - it's objectification (commoditization of a human being) and chattel-thinking.

But all that is heavy - and hardly necessary. Folks who understand need not explain and those who don't don't benefit from such an explanation. So, I just toss out a semi-humorous (tongue-in-cheek) one-liner.


It should be noted that one must lose the innocence of youth long before one can gain wisdom. It is just not possible to be both 'innocent' and 'wise.' I aspire to the latter, not the former.

[savemefromdumbya]

27. He's only one of Cheney's patsies