Hope? Is there ANY? I think not.

[BeHereNow]

I have been ruminating on the recent events.

-Generals demanding Rummy's resignation, to no avail.
-Sy Hersch on the "Iran Plan," to public apathy.
-Mounting numbers of military and civilian casualties in Iraq, ignored by most.
-The silent complicity of our elected "Representatives" in government, unchallenged due to media complicity.
-General public's apathy over the illegal activitiesof the administration...let's face it,
the majority of our protests amount to NOTHING.

My list goes on and I am sure many of you could
contribute in mirror fashion to my assessment of
our collective situation as citizens of what used to be "America."

Having spent many hours over the last few years contemplating
all that has happened and is happening, I can come to only one conclusion.

Unless there is a mass defection of our troops and a
nation wide refusal to pay taxes, what hope is there?

Personally, I don't think it is even a remote possibility
that either will happen.

No more than our vote counting in 2006 to kick the
corporate owned "representatives" out of power now
that the corporate masters contol the count of our votes.

I think America, as you and I grew up to believe it to be,
is officially over.

With deep sorrow,
BHN

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. There Is Always Hope For The Strong

For only the weak are hopeless. But the strong shall rise up and carry the burden, while holding on to the hope that dwells within them. In time, the hope will spring eternal and victory will be won. The strong will then open their hands and give the fruits of that victory over to the weak and hopeless and will rejuvenate their spirits once again. For the strong full of hope fight for the weak and hopeless. We will maintain our vision of strength and victory, so that the weak can rise again.

[BeHereNow]

4. And just HOW do you see that happening?

I need some hope.
Please eleaborate on the details of how we are going to do
what you so eloquently describe.
I'm all ears.
BHN

[mandyky]

13. Let me try

The GOP is based on lies, and the People are starting to see. We have to show the "fundies" for what they are, too. Getting America back won't be easy, but Dems have to be honest and relentless.

It will take awhile, maybe even decades. What we do need to do is hold our party accountable while wreaking havoc on the opposition.

[BeHereNow]

32. And WHAT has changed?

WE are going to hold our "party" accountable exactly how?
Their seats are assurred by touch screen voting.
Remember?
No. of course not- it's only been discussed here for YEARS.
BHN

[mandyky]

60. What I meant was

after we reagain power. If the new boss ain't any better than the new boss, they won't last long.

[BeHereNow]

73. Would that be because you believe our votes will be counted?

ROLF.
Now ,tell me again how we are going to get the country back?
Voting?
HAHAHAHHAHHA!
Pah-leeze, where have you been?
BHN

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. I See It Happening Through Us

The power is ours. The weapon to fight the enemy is here. That weapon is wisdom. The mechanism is awareness. Losing hope means no longer having an interest in acquiring the truth. But there is no greater sin in this battle than to abandon the quest for knowledge and wisdom. For this battle has been waged with propaganda and evil untruths. These deceptions are what have degraded the very fabric of this once great nation to now be a bunch of zombies that have lost sight of what truth is and what it stands for. But lack of knowledge, lack of awareness and lack of truth are always temporary things. Truth, however, is permanent. Once one is made aware to the truth the deception is rendered meaningless through its exposure. But truth cannot be exposed as farce, as it is truth. So how do we do what we need to do? By continuing to do what we are already doing. We are all here, on DU. We are here for a reason. We are here to seek the truth. Each and every day that passes each of us learn something new here that we would not have known otherwise. It keeps us informed, aware and accurate in our perceptions. That is the key to power. Each time we learn something here, each time we become aware to a truth, we can relay that truth to others to overcome the deception that may have been cast upon them. For this battle we fight is merely a battle of truth. The hope I speak of is always plentiful, for truth is always out there to those who seek it. And as long as there is a vessel in which to find truth, the hope is ours and victory is forthcoming. This battle may take time; how much I can't say for certain. But I've never claimed it to be an easy fight, for we have seen that it is not. But it is one that can be won, must be won, will be won. We do so by spreading truth; by spreading wisdom; by making those deceived become aware, if even one at a time. Each and every day brings new opportunities to say just one learned truth to another. In time, these truths are repeated, and will branch out. In time, truth will overcome the deception. There is an entire up and coming generation that is inspired by what they see and learn, that will be the future of this country, that will remember what they've seen now and will fight to restore what once made our country proud. It is up to us to make sure they are aware of as much truth as we can cast upon them. That we inspire them to seek out wisdom and erradicate deception. This we can do, this we must do. We do it by coming here. We do it by learning, by not accepting the deception, by not losing hope. For hope is truth, and truth will set you free; or so they say.

So hope, my friend, is there for you always. You may not know it or feel it as strongly inside of you right now, but it is there. It is there because you know the truth. It is there because you have the power of that truth to spread, to whomever you choose to spread it to. Fret not, dear friend, for enough will be made aware in due time. Truth only needs time. But the more we spread truth, the less time it needs. So nay, do not lose hope. Fight. Fight by learning one more truth. Fight by passing that truth on to one more unknowingly seeking it out. That is how we win, and that is why I have hope.

[BeHereNow]

24. Please, be more concrete- WHAT exactly have "we" changed? Stopped?

I would appreciate examples of what we have
stopped or effected change on?
The coming invasion of Iran?
The illegal activities of the corporate owned government and military?
The recall of electronic voting fraud?
WHAT???
What, that MATTERS?
BHN

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. I Am Regretful That The Above Post Failed To Inspire You

For hope is not something defined by concrete circumstance. It is something that resides within you, intangibly, to be called upon for battle. In this battle that hope is the hope for truth. And that truth will affect change, as it has already. It may not have affected change in the ways you define, yet. But in time it will. I have seen much progress in this fight. In this past year alone millions have been made aware to many acts of deception. They may not be there yet, but they are on their way. How many millions more will become aware next year, or the year after that? Change takes time. Truth takes time. We may not have enjoyed the fruits of this yet, or the changes yet that we seek. But we have seen that truth has been spreading. We have seen millions join the fight. We have seen many start to ask questions, start to explore, start to seek out the truth. And that matters. That is what matters. And it is up to us to continue spreading that truth. Day by day, week by week, year after year, we will speak this truth and uncloud the mask of deception from the unaware's eyes. And when enough are awakened, we shall have secured our victory. This will take time, and we will have much pain to endure in the process. But in the end we shall hold our heads high, for though we may not have stopped the things you listed, we will have stopped countless others we do not yet even know were before us. The fight is forward, not back. Hope is forward, not back. That is what matters. Stopping the next list that can be created before it has a chance to be known is what matters. We do that by spreading the truth. We do that by being here. We do that by taking what we learn here and imparting it unto others. You want something concrete? Post a poll on how many DU'ers are infinitely more aware to truth now than a year ago. How many who have joined in that past year that are wiser for it, and have been awakened to things they knew not even existed. That is concrete. That is how you shall know that truth is spreading, that victory is ongoing, that victory is within reach. People are overcoming this regimes deceptions every day. In time, there shall be enough. In time, we shall overtake them. In time, you shall look me in the eyes and say we did it, friend.

[cali]

39. You're much too nice, OMC

I see this kind of post as self-indulgence of the worst kind. I suspect that engaging just feeds it. What ever happened to a stiff upper lip anyway? What ever happened to simply forging ahead because to do otherwise is giving in and giving up?

Nice pep talk, though. (Next time use paragraph breaks)

cali

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

42. .

There is a rhyme and reason for the lack of paragraph breaks. When I post replies of that nature sourced from the voice of wisdom in my head, I generally avoid paragraph breaks. I have always been one to believe that wisdom is sacred, and that one seeking it out genuinely will continue reading on through the complexity and annoyance of the words melding together. They will be willing to re-read each line, if necessary, to follow. But those that are self-indulgent, or not truly interested in the wisdom they claim to seek, will glaze over it when written in such a way. They will not put the effort forth. These people are not deserving of the wisdom to begin with, so the method within itself weeds out the false seekers, and draws in the pure. I have no doubt that you read it, as I have no doubt that there were several that glazed over it.

And forgive me, cali, I'm in a mode tonight. (fret not, I'll wake up wiseassish and blunt again tomorrow LOL)

[cali]

48. True enough

I read it, but aren't the people most in need of a little wisdom the ones we need to speak to most directly and simply? Not that your words weren't that, but paragraph breaks seem to make a huge difference in whether or not we can access information. I think, however, I understand where you're coming from- a place of flow.

Goodnight.

[Breeze54]

89. Now you have me crying....this means a lot to me... TY! n/t

[BigBearJohn]

185. Live up to your monicker "BE HERE NOW" and you will understand.

[Shine]

37. Nice post, bud.

:thumbsup:

:hi:

[Guaranteed]

61. STRONG post.

And a good man.

Keep up the good work. You, and everyone who continue to fight, are all appreciated and loved.

[mtnsnake]

77. Inspiring post, but knowing the truth isn't enough. We have to act on it

We have to get out and march, protest with signs, mobilize the masses. Only then will it matter.

BTW, looking at your avatar, I'm sure you know something about hope. I went through several frustrating decades, never giving up hope, and then just about the best day of my life happened on June 14th, 1994. I think you know what I'm talking about. ;)

[Deja Q]

6. What's to have hope for, eh?

[BeHereNow]

10. Countless crimes without ANY consequence...

A complicit corporate owned Congress and Senate?
Without representation , where is our salvation?
BHN

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

16. You have to have hope that right will win out

maybe not in 10 years, or even 20

but it will. people have lived through worse.

[leftchick]

146. I don't know if people have lived through worse

after reading the global warming threads in LBN things are going to hell pretty damn quick and no one seems to be noticing. It is going to get a LOT worse.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

151. No, it might get a lot worse

The Ice Age was no picnic either

[Catrina]

141. There is hope. Tom Delay and Abramoff, the orchestrators of the K St.

Project and funders of the most corrupt politicians in DC have finally been stopped.

More reason for hope:

PNACer Libby, indicted and telling tales to the GJ that could bring down at least the VP and several of his co-conpirators.

David Safavian, arrested and indicted, no longer in a position to hand out contracts to Bush's cronies and talking to the prosecutors.

Tom Delay's crooked former aide, Rudy, arrested and indicted and talking to prosecutors

Four corrupt GOP governors indicted, at least on in jail.

Abramoff partner in crime, Scanlon, plead guilty and talking to prosecutors

Abramoff Partner Kidan, entered guilty plea and may be indicted in the murder of Gush Boulis. Both called as witnesses in the trial of three Repub. hitmen.

Larry Franklin entered a guilty plea in the Spies in the Pentagon case, opening the door to getting to members of WHIG and the OSP, Ledeen and Douglas Feith under investigation at the moment.

Claude Allen, former Bush circuit court nominee, later Dir. of Domestic affairs, arrested for petty theft.

Hastert, under investigation for nefarious dealings in Turkey
Frist, under investigation for insider trading.

Rove, still a target of the Plame investigation.

Six Generals speak out against Rumsfeld, and a report that Rummy was involved in possible illegal involvement in the torture scandal, just came out.

Tom Noe of Oh. indicted on 56 counts of fraud, with possible ties to many other corrupt politicians in Oh. and even in the WH.

Duke Cunningham, rabid pro-war Congressman, convicted on corruption charges involving Defense Contractor scandal.

There are still more indictments to come from Abramoff revelations, Bob Ney, possibly Doolittle, Cornyn, Ralph Reed, Burns, and several others. All these people made the current situation possible.

Little by little their crimes are catching up with them and one by one the house of cards is falling ~

Good people, like Joe Wilson, Patrick Fitzgerald, Comey and other DOJ members refused to participate in Bush's crimes. Whistle blowers, as in the Domestic Spy program are coming forward ~

This time last year, I never believed all this would happen. I thought, after the election, their power was cemented for at least the next four years and that by then, it would be late to do anything about this country.

My hope is that behind the scenes there were good people, even Bush appointees, who drew the line when it came to breaking the law.

By this time next year, Democrats may take over Congress and hearings can begin to hold accountable those who lied to the American people.

So far, this year has been a bad year for the regime ~ and I think it's going to get a lot worse. That's what gives me hope. The checks and balances were not completely destroyed by this cabal. They're working, even if slowly ~ but Fitz's investigation proves that, as does the Abramoff affairs exposure and the Pentagon Spy trial ~

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. If we think that, then it IS over.

I'm not prepared to give up, as bad as it is. Giving up is what they want; losing hope means they win.

[BeHereNow]

14. What we "think" is quite different from "what IS."

This fact is what I think many have failed to come to
terms with.
BHN

[UrbScotty]

3. If you give up hope, then the Republicans will have won (nt)

[BeHereNow]

7. Sorry, I don't see a huge differencee in the parties...

other than the method of rhetoric-
the results appear to be the same.
BHN

[UrbScotty]

33. Seriously???

http://www.democrats.org/agenda.html

[roody]

50. I don't either.

Twenty years ago I heard Ralph Nader say that the two parties are like the 2 jaws of the shark. Change will come through a change in people's consciousness.

[BeHereNow]

55. Well, given the responses on this thread...

I would wager that you and I are not holding our
breath on that count...
BHN

[roody]

152. OK by me. Those that believe in

Democratic politics are doing their part in that arena. We all do our part in the arena we believe in, and when we least expect it, a sea change comes about. To quote Julia Butterfly Hill, "Who would have believed 50 years ago that women wearing pants would be completely normal? " Look at the change in consciousness in Latin America! 30 years ago people were dying under brutal dictatorships there. If we all do our part it will all come together in a way we presently cannot imagine. This idea comes from Rebecca Solnit's Hope in the Dark.

[Telly Savalas]

5. If you really think that, then shouldn't you be out trying to get laid?

If the political situation is hopeless, then why spend any time on an internet politics discussion board?

[BeHereNow]

15. Indeed- when so few fail to REALISTICALLY grasp the situation.

Your flippant post post proves my point.
As IF "getting laid" would solve my/our problem?
Geez- your response just sunk my hope meter
even lower in regard to the political intelligence
of the so called "left."
Perhaps Sy Hersch should also go get laid and
stop writing silly stories about our plans to nuke Iran?
Perhaps the Generals demanding Rummy's resignation
should get over it and go get laid?

BHN

[cali]

25. Oh, for fuck's sake

get over yourself. I'm not near as nice about this sort of wailing and gnashing of teeth in dispair as OMC. You're simply one in a long line of moaners who always think it's all over. What do you think people in England felt when the Blitz was taking place? Did they all just give up? No. And that was worse than what we're now enduring We will, in all likelihood, prevail.

If you believe everything you're saying, why are you posting? Posts like yours pop up frequently here. They're absolutely pointless.

This business about the two parties being the same is unadulterated bullshit. Al Gore is not George bush. Senators like Feingold, Leahy and Boxer are not the same as Senators Brownback, Coburn and Frist. There's a huge difference. The dem party may be flawed but had it been in power it wouldn't have taken this country to war in Iraq. We wouldn't be threatening Iran, we'd be talking with them.

[adigal]

27. Did England still have a free press??

I think you are missing the point - we have a media-controlled press and a citizenry seriously uninterested in this nation's future. We have problems until they all wake up.

[BeHereNow]

30. My point exactly.

Without a majority refusal to serve in the military
and to be taxed without representation,
WE ARE FUCKED.
BHN

[cali]

31. Although citizen apathy is a problem

people appear to be waking up from the national slumber. What is a media controlled press? If you meant a corporate controlled press, I'll agree with you to a point. The electronic media sucks, but there's still plenty of good journalism around. There is still reason for hope. I honestly believe that some people just enjoy wallowing in dispair, and moaning about how we'll never recover from bushco.

[BeHereNow]

28. Time will tell, eh?

Whether the "moaners" were simply gnashing teeth
or grasping reality.
Again, I repeat, reality is not easily grappled
by Americans, left or right.
As I always say-
The proof is in the pudding.
Please, cite some examples of the great changes (on things that MATTER)
effected by our so called leaders in the democratic party?
PLEASE.
PLEASE.
PLEASE.
I NEED some hope.
BHN

[cali]

35. The democrats are

in the minority. It's our job to work to get enough dems elected in November to take back at least one House in Congress.

Even if you believe in what you're saying, what's the point of pissing and moaning. There's a great deal to be said for putting on a brave face, no matter how bleak things may look. Your path never led to victory.

[BeHereNow]

49. You and WHOSE fraud ridden voting machines?

Oh yeah.
BHN
PS: As I said, time will tell.
I'd say the writing is on the wall and
has been for a long time for any one
paying attention.
Please do bookmark this thread for a discussion
in the future I see.

[Fovea]

157. I am old enough to have seen the streets of America

burn repeatedly. It did not come to it overnight, but when it came down to it, burn they did.

And if you consider it, the longer they play us, the more of us will grab a brick at the appropriate moment.

This may be an odd source of comfort, but consider reading two works of literature. Read Jean Genet's
'The Balcony' and read Frank Herbert's 'Dune.'

It is odd how well they, as a whole mirror our current debacle. Oh yeah, and maybe Hamlet for a finishing touch. In place of Fortinbras, read Gore, or Boxer, or Kucinich, etc.

[PetraPooh]

173. I notice you are quick to jump on his arse, but can you answer his

questions? What has changed substantially? What has DU accomplished in the real world? When has the lying, cheating, and stealing by this administration been effected. You get over yourself and your desire to not face facts. Answer the darned questions. I have seen precious little actually pan out to take down this administration, the woes of unemployment, the woes of lowered wages, the woes brought onto education through the no child left behind act, the national debt. . . these things are constantly reported on, then dropped as things proceed as usual. All you do is say "buck up". NO, give me a reason to buck up, show me where any of this makes a difference.

[northamericancitizen]

143. I did that last night. Get laid., hey, when you think and feel that

all (hope) is lost, the next best thing is to experienced intimacy.

And this can't be achieved without love.

Loving is to be opened and to accept beeing vulnerable.

lise

[Land Shark]

8. People are deeply concerned, but too media-habituated so they wait

to see their own concern reflected in the tv, don't see it, then conclude that it's not quite real, or not broadly shared. BS, it is.

[Breeze54]

9. There is ALWAYS hope!!!!!!!!

My son is about to come home from Iraq, after being 'STOP LOSSED',

and he hasn't lost hope...and neither should you!!

The same things were being said before Clinton was elected...and I believe...

....there is always hope!!!

Things DO change...just not as fast as we may want them to.

Nothing is ever permanent in this world....it keeps changing.

Don't give up!!!!

I haven't and I need you with me!!!

[Zensea]

11. Interesting perspective given your screen name

That is, I mean it's a bit apocalyptic and weighted towards the destruction side of the circle.
Not quite the buddhist (specifically taoist) perspective of cycle.
I think reflecting on that will give hope.

[BeHereNow]

22. BeHereNow implies all that, as in being FULLY present to the moment

we are living in.
If one is FULLY present in the moment we are living in,
one is FULLY aware that we are
SCREWED.
It is what is is-
I will not pretend there is hope when there is none.
The reason there is none is because the majority of
people do not fully comprehend reality AS IT IS, and
therefore are incapable of taking the action
needed to reverse it-
AS in:
A nation wide refusal to fund it. (taxes)
A global refusal to participate in the carnage. (Our troops to start with)
BHN

[Breeze54]

40. ah......

Like you?????

"The reason there is none is because the majority of
people do not fully comprehend reality AS IT IS, and
therefore are incapable of taking the action..."

Get OFF your pity pot!!!!!

[BeHereNow]

47. Please, enlighten me as to the changes we have seen!

Pity pot?
No, reality pot.
I invite you, while not holding my breath,
to enlighten me as to the GREAT changes we have seen so far...
PLEASE, DO.
BHN

[Breeze54]

53. No pity to you from me...you are a spoiled child. n/t

[BeHereNow]

56. And you, a delusional one...

Still waiting for you empirical evidence of ANY change
effected so far.
Save your name calling for your calls
to network owned talk show brown shirts.
BHN

[Breeze54]

62. Ha,ha,ha!! You ARE a child!! lol! n/t

[BeHereNow]

66. Can't help but notice your tendency to resort to name calling...

Still waiting however, on your empirical evidence of changes
effected by others as silly as you.
BHN

[PetraPooh]

174. Simple questions, why not answer them? Ah, because you can't?

[Marie26]

12. Of course there's hope.

They can control external events, but they have no control over our ability to hope.

[mikita]

17. BHN, I sadly agree with you....

I think you're going to get alot of snarky remarks, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.

We were sitting outside tonight, a beautiful evening by any standards, and remarked how sad it is that there's always now a cloud over everything that used to be so joyful.

And to respond to those who would say: why are you posting/reading if it so hopeless -- I am doing it so that "they" cannot change me inside. And I am trying to find ways to get others to understand what is really happening to us. Then if there ever is a revolution, perhaps we'll be on the same side.

Peace.

[BeHereNow]

18. Thanks for your post- at least I know I am not alone.

Americans, left and right, are not so good at
facing reality.
Glad to know you are.
The fact is-
Until people in this country FULLY comprehend the
danger, there will be no stopping the outcome
of what is happening.
The "Good Germans" under Hitler would concur.

BHN

[Breeze54]

51. You two are spoiled!!

"We were sitting outside tonight, a beautiful evening by any standards, and remarked
how sad it is that there's always now a cloud over everything that used to be so joyful."

Well; aren't you fucking LUCKY to be looking at the fucking stars???

Posted: 4/13/2006 11:24:00 AM
http://www.krqe.com/expanded.asp?ID=14750
Thirty-six US soldiers killed in Iraq this month

http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=8850
Learning to Count: The Dead in Iraq
by Dahr Jamail
With Jeff Pflueger

"I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial
incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis."
– George W. Bush, Dec. 12, 2005, Philadelphia, Penn.

Does it count?

How many Iraqis have died as the result of the Anglo-American invasion and occupation
of their country remains an unresolved question in the antiwar movement.
It is a question the pro-war camp avoids.

Yet what more important question is there?"

Give me a HUGE BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:puke: :puke:

:grr:

[Guaranteed]

117. Seriously- it's spoiled brat syndrome gone amuck. nt

[marions ghost]

145. said the same thing yesterday to friends

it was a quietly delicate spring day, the petals from flowering trees falling softly between the tulips this Easter weekend. It was the kind of day that speaks of renewal, that lifts the spirits after winter. But we all noticed a strange disconnect, an inability to feel the uncomplicated joy of the season. It was as if the promise of spring has been denied. We talked of the cloud you speak of, the ugly cloud that hovers over this country now...

But in our talking, our coming together, there was acknowledgment and affirmation. We will most likely never have that simple joyous response to life again, those of us who have suffered through the last 5 years...being bludgeoned by lies and witnessing an unforgiveable abuse of power. Those who are survive abuse are never quite the same, but do gain a different kind of wisdom in the loss of innocence. The good thing to remember is that when you see the true nature of the problem you can finally begin to do something about it. And more Americans are ready to say "Houston, we have a problem."

The War is in the Homeland now. We must no longer tolerate the hijackers in Washington and the culture of corruption that put them there. We have the numbers. We do have the power. It can be done. Don't HOPE it will be done, begin to BELIEVE it will be done. I'm looking forward to creating the future we deserve, while the BFEE flops on the dung heap of history. Think where we were even a year ago. It IS a new day.

:grouphug:

[linazelle]

19. The only thing I disagree with is "public apathy"

People have been working, protesting, monitoring the polls--and still the crimes continue. The polls reflect America's sentiments but the thieves in charge don't give a damn about the peoples' opinions or protests. Maybe as the discontent grows, we will find a solution--some way to boycott and shut down this illegal coup. Necessity is the mother of invention.

[garybeck]

20. Did Belushi give up when they were put on double secret probation?

Never give up hope.

Never give up.

Please listen to this:

http://www.acmewebpages.com/midi/over.wav


I think you need a Toga Party.

[longship]

23. Read my sig.

I changed my sig last night in the hopes that I could stay focussed on the positives.

There are many things happening which are going to play in our favor. It would be helpful if people would dwell on those things.

Peace, friend.

[latebloomer]

26. Are you refusing to pay taxes?

Just wondering. I for one do not yet have the courage to do that.

[BeHereNow]

29. I have been discussing it with friends- again to what end without

without full public participation?
Nada.
Zip.
A candle in the wind, as the song goes.
BHN

[bluesbassman]

36. We looked pretty screwed in 1929 too.

My dad lived through the Great Depression as did a lot of other good Americans. In talking to him and others of his generation about it through the years, the one thing that stuck with me was that they maintained a sense of purpose. Obviously their immediate purpose was to survive, but the also had their sights on restoring our country. One of the problems we have now is sensory overload. There is so much bad news coming at us from so many different sources that it is easy and understandable to become weary and frustrated about getting through this. But get through this we will, and we'll do it by keeping focused on our purpose; to provide a better place for those that follow. That is the essential difference between we progressives and the hypocrites on the right. They are in it for what they can get now, while we believe in building a society that will not only be beneficial to our generation, but also to those to come.

BHN - you know you have the spark still in you, otherwise you wouldn't bother to participate in these discussions. Keep the faith!

[Breeze54]

38. Well said!! Thank You!! .....n/t

[bluesbassman]

118. No, Thank You!

For supporting your son by being involved. I'm so glad to hear he'll be back soon. Every one of our men and women who return bring us that much closer to recovering from this nightmare. As a vet myself, I wish to extend my gratitude to your son for his service, and wish him a bright and happy future.

[Breeze54]

140. Thank You for your kind words!

I am waiting, "on baited breath", for his phone call, from a safe place!
Thanks for the warm wishes!
I will send them his way!
Peace and Thank You also, for your service.... :hug:

[BeHereNow]

52. Thanks, but these "discussions" only depress me further for the most part.

Again, I repeat-
UNTIL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FULLY COMPREHEND THE
PROBLEM, and not their fantasical "left wing" comprehension of
it, there will be NO SOLUTION or EFFECTIVE action
against it.
Sorry, but that is how I see it, given the empirical evidence.
BHN
On Edit:
Again, I invite ANY poster to provide an example
of EFFECTIVE actions against what is happening????
So far, not a one.
Only fantasical rhetoric of dreamy platitiudes and ideology.
(Who does that remind me of?)
ZZZZZZZZZZ....

[PetraPooh]

175. Wasn't it a whole 'nother decade or more before things got any better?

Wow, that's a depressing thought. As a matter of fact I think I heard it was the WWII that finally ended the depression. Almost 15 years.

[Guaranteed]

41. There is hope, and we are gaining.

We will never utterly DESTROY ignorance- that, we must understand.

But, times, they are a-changin'.

The fight will continue. It will never end.

[Shine]

43. I'm sorry you feel that way, BHN.

:hug: It sounds like you need one of these....:hug:

Let me recommend a very uplifting book called: The Impossible Will Take a Little While. I LOVED this book and it really helped me with the feelings of despair you are describing.

Check it out:
http://www.paulloeb.org/newimp/impindex.htm

:hi:

[latebloomer]

148. Thanks for the link, Shine!

I believe that when we give up, and envision only despair, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And, conversely, when we can visualize a better world, we are helping to create it.

[Shine]

149. I agree 100%, latebloomer.

I'm glad you liked the link and I do hope you check out that amazing book. I recommend it to everyone. :hi:

[BeFree]

44. I hope

I hope the electronic voting machines are thrown into Boston Harbor.

I hope bucheney get brought up on federal charges.

I hope the sheeple raise their heads up and see the approaching storm.

I hope you get your hope back.

For everything I hope for, I will take action to make it happen.

[roody]

45. Read Hope in the Dark

by Rebecca Solnit. It will help.

[PatrioticLeftie]

46. Hope is only lost when

The dreamers give up.

[tabasco]

54. And your whining only makes it worse.

What are you trying to do, get people to stay home and not vote?

What is your purpose here? To spread despair? Thanks a lot.

Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

[BeHereNow]

59. Vote? ROLF!!! "Whining???"

Where have you been for the last 6 years?
Ever heard of Diebold?
You know, I finally have seen the light.
The total DISCONNECT of consciousness
in the "left" is NO different than that of the so called "right."
Given this fact, can any one really be surprised
at our collective situation?
BHN

[magellan]

57. I hear you, BHN

And sadly I agree with you 100%.

[BeHereNow]

63. You and ONE other poster on this thread...

Sad, eh?
But COMPLETELY revealing as to why it will
get MUCH worse before it gets WORSE.
If people remain deluded about the FACTS of the
situation, there will be no solution in our lifetimes.
All the silly rhetoric on this thread only confirms
my conclusion as to how DEEPLY we have sunk as a people
and a citizenry.
Never have the words
"People GET the government they deserve"
been more fitting that in the situation we
are now facing.
It is clear to me, more than ever before,
that the "left" is every bit as blind as the "right."
I am just now recalling the childhood bedtime story of the
Gingham dog and the Calico cat who
devoured one another...
BHN

[Guaranteed]

65. If you GIVE UP, you'll get the government you deserve.

Why are you doing this?

If you're sad, frustrated, just say so.

But don't try to tear down others' hope.

[BeHereNow]

67. Ah...you have proven my point-

And I turn the question to you-
GIVE ME THE EVIDENCE THAT GIVES ME REASON TO HOPE!
The ridiculous responses on this thread?
Dear GOD, if so, we are more doomed than
I originally thought on this thread.
PLEASE-
GIVE ME EMPIRICIAL EVIDENCE OF HOW WE
HAVE EFFECTED ANY CHANGE IN SIX YEARS UNDER THIS
CORPORATE CONTROLLED EMPIRE????
Please?
BHN

[Guaranteed]

70. You don't understand hope.

Hope doesn't require evidence.

But, if you're really interested, the evidence is most certainly out there, in history.

Things always change. You should know that. You're being weak. You're selling on a transient downturn.

And, if people would just stop doing exactly what YOU are doing....the world could be a much better place.

Was it Eldridge Cleaver? that said....well, he said you're the problem.

[magellan]

78. I understand why people have cause for optimism

If the Dems are able to take back even part of Congress in November, the brakes will come on to an extent. But the truth I see is that even if by some miracle the Dems take full control of Congress, and all of BushCo are summarily frog-marched to the Hague, and a Dem was elected president in '08, we're still going the same direction...just not as fast. That's because the people in our government aren't The Government. I don't quite understand who's really running things -- call them Global Corporatists or Global Mafia. I just know they have their tentacles deep into everything, everywhere, and the good guys -- the REAL good guys -- are token, and few and far between.

I'm not proposing anything. But my honest feeling is that we'd have to completely dismantle our government and start again in order to truly fix what's wrong. And I don't think the ultimate PTB would allow that in the end, no matter how much care we took to block them from infiltrating once again.

It's like we (the people) hit a fog bank a few miles back, and we're racing toward a 20-car pile up somewhere ahead of us at 60mph, asleep at the wheel. At some point we may wake up and slam on the brakes. But I don't think it'll be soon enough to stop us skidding into disaster.

[BeHereNow]

82. EXACTLY. N/T "too late" IS the operative

bhn

[marions ghost]

147. How about stop making it a "left" vs "right" thing

that's buying into the old rightwing divisive nonsense. it's BS. People are waking up now to the fact that there MIGHT be something beyond black & white polarites. You seem to want concrete answers. So make it happen if you want it. Think outside the box they have us all in for a change.

just a suggestion

[Breeze54]

58. 'FIGHT OR FLIGHT'.....time to choose!!

FIGHT OR FLIGHT

Fight or flight baby
What are you gonna do
Cause they've installed fear
And we're still here - maybe
It's time for us to choose

With lies lies lies lies lies everywhere
They've poisoned the air
Making it hard to breathe

The last thing we can do is just stand by
We must not comply
We must do what no one dares

Don't say there's nothing left to do
Giving up is what they want from you

Fight or flight baby
What are you gonna do
Stand up for your rights
Or simply turn off the lights
And hope that no one notices you

With lies lies lies lies lies everywhere
They've poisoned the air
Making it hard to breathe

How can you just stand by
No - We must not comply
We must do what no one dares

Don't tell me there's nothing left to do
When giving up is what they want from you

Rise rise rise rise rise she said
No this isn't the end
I don't believe it is over yet

Fight or flight baby
Fight or flight
Wrong or right baby
What are you gonna choose

http://www.amyclarke.com/lyrics.htm

[PetraPooh]

177. Hmmm, questioning seems better than F or F; more rational and human

less instinctive and animalistic.

[Guaranteed]

64. Stop kicking this crap.

Let the hopelessness die.

[BeHereNow]

68. Ah yes, free speech when it suits you?

May I suggest that you put the thread on ignore
instead of displaying hypocratic views as a "democrat"
who supports free speech?
You have just proven the point of my post.
ROLF!
BHN

[Guaranteed]

69. You don't know how, but I've already supported your right.

This just shouldn't be kicked. That's the truth.

Yet, here I am.

[BeHereNow]

71. "Shouldn't be kicked?" According to who, and WHY?

I have REPEATEDLY asked for EMPIRICAL evidence
to dispute my premise.
SO FAR- NONE,
Is that why you want the thread to die?
To continue your delusion that I MAY just
me making a valid point?
PROVE ME WRONG!
PLEASE!!!!
POST YOUR TALKING POINTS AND SOURCES
that SHOW me effective change against my
points of REALISTIC ASSESSMENT.

PLEASE.
PLEASE, DO.

BHN

[fooj]

159. Isn't it ROFL?

Just trying to lighten things up a little.

[Jane Austin]

72. What a freaking waste of time this thread is.

Go get some sleep and when you wake up, go help someone who, oh I don't know, is paralysed and can't use a computer.

Or go give somebody a ride to the store.

Get out of yourself.

[BeHereNow]

74. FYI- All week long I "get out of myself"

I work full time with special needs kids.
Trust me, I see what is coming in this country by
my time in the trenches.
More and more kids living homeless.
More and more kids without health care.
More and more kids hungry.

And WHAT exactly are the changes you and
the other good hearted libruls have changed about
those facts?

If you don't like the thread- put it on ignore and
stop parading as a librul who supports
free speech and call your local right wing talk show
host instead.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

75. Oh the irony of your post, having re read it...

That is EXACTLY what I do ALL DAY LONG.
Help kids who are disabled.
Autistic.
Downs Syndrome.
C.B..
Development delayed.
Emotionally disturbed.

LOL...
Eat your post-
And PLEASE, put this thread on ignore.
BHN

[fooj]

158. So then...YOU are the HOPE that you have been waiting for.

I'm certain that you bring MUCH HOPE to those children...

FWIW- they DEPEND on you. So does this country. Enough said.

Peace.

[Fire Walk With Me]

76. There's plenty of work to be done. Hope doesn't solve problems.

However, these problems can indeed be solved, and the future benefits will be self-evident.

Problems are usually the only reason we'll change something. When it becomes intolerable, on a direct and personal level. Robert Bly, the poet, called us "the sugar-fed generation". We now have our work ahead of us.

[BeHereNow]

80. Can these problems be solved by THIS population?

That is MY question and the reason for my despair.
As IF anything short of complete refusal to comply could save us???
As IF the head in the clouds idealism of "libruls" who think
protesting and voting will turn this train around?
THAT is our problem.
The total delusion of both the left and the right as
to what the problem is and how to counter it EFFECTIVELY.
Notice, despite my many pleas to the many "there is hope" posters
on this thread to provide ONE example of effective change due to their
actions, there are no responses on that point?
Which I humbly submit, only proves the premise of my OP.

BHN

[bluesbassman]

88. Absolutely there's work to be done.

Bravo Peake. And let's see where we came from.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness".

BHN - you keep asking for empirical evidence that we have effected any change in the last six years. Maybe we haven't. But the foundation for change is an environment of turmoil. And that's why I come here; to exchange ideas about how we can effect change. Maybe today is the day that the empirical evidence you're looking for will start happening, maybe it's tomorrow, I don't know. But one things for sure, we have the power and opportunity to be a part of the change.

As for me, I may die trying, but I won't die doing nothing!

[linazelle]

79. I am sorry that you are being attacked for airing your feelings

Know that what you are saying resonates among many here and ignore the rest--who, IMHO--would argue with you no matter what point of view you put forward. That's their job.

[BeHereNow]

84. LOL!!! The good news is...

They are going down with the rest of us, and we get to say...
"We TRIED to tell you..."
BHN

[reBel_gyrl]

81. Wow. Ever read Daniel Quinn, anyone?

This whole thread is text book Mother Culture victimization. BHN, and really any/everyone that in some way or another feels like BHN, that hope is.. scarce, y'all should read Quinn's books. I stumbled upon one called "Ishmael", (I've now read 3 with 2 more on the way from Amazon) and WOW. It literally changed my mind. Not from one thing to another, but more... changed the way it works, or.. how I think, I guess I would say.

I know the world can change (and it si the world, not just America), I just have to convince every one else. The books help. If you need a distraction and want to know why everything is the way it is and how to change it FOR REAL, I suggest stumbling upon that book.

[BeHereNow]

86. As a teacher, I can assure you that wont happen...

The majority of kids in American public schools
CAN'T read.
I loved that book, BTW.
Too bad the majority of kids in our schools today
will never be able to read it.
BHN

[Guaranteed]

94. You're teaching our kids....this?

That's...a tragedy. That a teacher, of all people, would feel this way.

A person instructing the future of our country. Yes, THAT disheartens me.

But- even so, you're just one person.

There are many others, who I have personally been taught by, who are quite hopeful and willing to instill the same values in the next generation.

[BeHereNow]

95. How dare you..

FYI-
I teach our kids the REALITY of the future.
That IF they do NOT maximize their options
by graduation, they will surely end up as cannon fodder for an
ILLEGAL war.
Some of my students are "gang-bangers"
in special ed for various "behavioural" problems.
Falling through the cracks of the education system BY DESIGN.
My mission is to make SURE they don't.

Fuck you.
You have NO idea what I do.

The reality is, if they are not informed about the
REALITY of this country, they will surely become the victims of it,
thanks to the delusional participation and complicity of people like you,
you EFFECTIVE Librul changing 'murikkka, one child at a time hypocrite, you.


Again.
SCREW YOU.
BHN

[Guaranteed]

102. So, you'll print out this thread and send it home with them, right?

I didn't think so.

[BeHereNow]

104. Actually, that is an EXCELLENT IDEA.

Thanks for the suggestion.
It will help prove my point to them that America,
left and right, doesn't give a shit about them,
and will be completely ineffectual at protecting them
from the neocon agenda for them.
I'll be sure to point out my numerous requests
for empirical evidence to the effectiveness
of the so called "libruls" to prevent them from
becoming future cannon fodder.
Thanks!
BHN

[Guaranteed]

107. Well, if you're going to do so, I want to let them know that

there IS hope, and they CAN make a difference.

They don't have to just give in to the garbage of the Bush Administration. This country was founded on an amazingly high ideal- liberty and justice for all. There are millions upon millions of people out there who understand that, and are WILLING TO FIGHT FOR IT.

They can join us, and, also, make a real difference. They don't have to believe as you do, and just give up. They can be a lot stronger than that.

Please, do, print this out and give it to them.

[BeHereNow]

111. Dear Students...You can make a difference

by becoming more than what the system expects of you.
And only by realizing that people like this poster (BullGooseLoony)
will not do it for you.
BGL is a keyboard warrior, completely removed from what your actual
life difficultites are on a daily basis.
As my students, you know that I am aware of the difficulties
you face and actively participate in your lives to help
you over come those difficulties.

Dear Students, please note, from the idiocy of
these posts, what you are up against, as far as
support from the public at large in the country called
America.

They have no clue and as I have told you many times-
You, like the rest of us, are on your own.
I support your efforts be more than what the neocons
have planned for you.
Your teacher.
BHN

[Guaranteed]

115. Oh- so they DO have hope.

Well, good for you, BeHereNow.

Way to do the right thing and not try to forever remove any kind of motivation from your students.

The people of DU- well, let's push the apathy for them.

[PetraPooh]

176. Here Here! All kids should be taught reality, not "hope" alone.

Though my kids were middle class white kids in a MCW school, I was constantly teaching what the schools left out. Making sure they had a good dose of reality with the hopeful and biased garbage the schools spew.

[BeHereNow]

99. You are going to tell one of MY students

That there is hope for their future, when
I know fully well the plan is to make them cannon fodder?
You are part of my/their problem.
Not EVEN remotely part of the solution.
Damn you to hell along with the Bush Cabal.
It's people like you that assure my kids will be duped into
enlisting.
You have NO clue as to what is going on
in the public education system.

BHN

[Guaranteed]

103. I won't make them cannon fodder.

Part of that is giving them something to strive toward.

What you're doing is entirely counterproductive.

To say these kinds of things to children- absolutely DISGUSTING.

Yes, it is. And FUCK YOU, if you do. You're a HORRIBLE person.

[BeHereNow]

106. And you have WHAT expericence in working with gang bangers

RIPE for the bush cabal's illegal war as cannon fodder?
BHN

[Guaranteed]

110. I've worked extensively with inner-city youth, as a job developer,

as well as others who would seemingly "have no hope." I'm talking the mentally ill, here.

If you want to see people who have struggled against REAL problems, you look to the mentally ill.

I know the struggles that the poor deal with. I know that some of them have relatives who have been MURDERED- one or two of them may have even done it themselves. Despite that, it's not them who I see here pushing this hopelessness.

I see you doing that. The person who they are supposed to be looking up to.

You are telling them to say "fuck it."

No, sir. No, ma'am. Do not "fuck it." There is hope for every one of us, for our entire country.

For, you see, we are saved by our own actions. We are saved by protecting our own integrity, by being part of the solution, part of the hope- rather than part of the problem, as you- as a TEACHER, of all things- certainly are.

I realize that you are acting upon a momentary emotion- therefore, I forgive you for this. But, the sooner you rip yourself out of this, the better for you, and the better for your students, our country, and the world.

[BeHereNow]

114. I am NOT telling them to "Fuck it"

Quite the opposite-
I am telling them they are FUCKED and they need to do EVERYTHING
they can to beat the odds against tehm.

I am telling them, the only way to avoid becoming cannon fodder
is to give themselves options for higher education, other that military
enlistment.

I am not worried about my "disabled" kids.
They would never be able to pass the military physical examinations.

I AM worried about my gang bangers, many of whom are
very intelligent kids who CAN get college scholarships or
other employment opportunities.

If that makes me a "horrible person" in your frame
of reference, than I am fully justified in my
feeling that there is no hope.

I can only hope that none of my students ever come in contact with you.
BHN

[Guaranteed]

116. You are FUCKED- so try harder....???

That's what you're saying?

Fucked, with hope?

That's not what "fucked" means. "Fucked" means it's OVER.

This is most DEFINITELY not the optimism that they need. Do your job- right.

[BeHereNow]

119. You have never worked with kids- obviously

In order to make it clear to them what they NEED to do-
You first must make it clear to them what they are up against.
I'm sure you would have then believe that showing up at some
protests and singing some songs would fix their problem?
Ha
Ha
Ha
Their problem, in regards to the future is SO
much bigger- should we delude them about that?
Oh sure, why not, after all the 2006 elections
will fix everything for them- right?
RIGHT!
BHN

[Guaranteed]

121. Yeah, I have. I told you I did. And telling them they're FUCKED is NOT

telling them what they are "up against."

That's not productive, or even TRUTHFUL. It's disgusting.

There is hope. If you were doing your job right, you'd be finding the stories of those who worked their asses off DESPITE the odds, and won.

But, no. You're saying that they're "fucked." Nice job.

[BeHereNow]

122. Several of my students are SCHOLARSHIP WINNERS

BECAUSE I told them they were fucked if they didn't
strive to bet the odds against them.
Next question?
BHN

[Guaranteed]

123. Sounds like they didn't believe you. I don't either.

Good for them. :)

They're a lot stronger than you are. I just hope you don't take any credit for that.

A whole lot more of them probably could have been successful if it wasn't for your "you're fucked, there's no hope" motivation.

[BeHereNow]

124. "Sounds like they didn't believe you. I don't either."

Uh...Okay Bill O'Lie-ly,
Wanna elaborate on that conclusion?
As in how did you arrive at that statement?
LOL.
Your brown shirt techniques of debate are
laughable in proving the original premise of my post.
Please do go on, your posts will be a valuable
learning tool when I show this thread to my kids
as to just how fucked they are, when people
like you pretend to care about them.
Again, thanks.
BHN

[Guaranteed]

125. You mean, other than them doing exactly the opposite of what you told

them?

You told them they're fucked, and they have no hope- apparently.

They worked hard, despite what you told them. and they did well. Clearly, they didn't believe you.

And, they certainly proved you wrong.

You were looking for EVIDENCE- right?- of people actually having HOPE, and succeeding? Well, apparently you didn't even look to your own students.

Funny that.

Yours is an odd, contradictory story, for sure.

[BeHereNow]

126. Trust me BGL...

The only hope I have for the future exists within my students,
who, despite the apathy and ignorance of the average
left and right Amerikkkan, of which you are evidence of
the existance of, somehow overcome the odds against
them.
I am proud to be a part of that and have no inclination
to debate a situation with you of which you are clearly ignorant,
not to mention arrogant.
In short, I have FAR more faith in my students to
effect change in amerikkka that the average (as in you)
DU poster.
BHN

[Guaranteed]

128. Yeah, just keep telling them it's hopeless, and they're fucked.

And they'll keep proving you wrong.

You know what? I don't even have HOPE of that.

I KNOW they will. How's that for "ignorance?"

They will find a way, despite your best efforts.

[BeHereNow]

132. So, twisting words is your latest hobby?

I find it very hard to believe that you ever worked
with a special needs population.
As a matter of fact, I find it criminal if true, given
the vitriolic nature of your responses
to me on this thread, never mind the utter
twisting of my sincere posts as an educator
who IS making a difference, one youth at a time.

I AM making a difference-daily.
And you?
Other than your complete non sense
and abusive posting on this thread,
again I ask:
What have you done lately?
As far as changing the future?

BHN

[Guaranteed]

133. I haven't twisted anything. You said every one of these things.

My concern is the difference that you ARE making, with this attitude.

Yeah, I'm hitting you hard. But you didn't come in here saying, Hey, DU- I'm feeling down. I need a pick-me-up.

You came in here with the intent of DESTROYING OTHERS' HOPE.

So, fuck you- as YOU first said to ME- speaking of ABUSIVE.

I hit you back, I hit you hard. You deserved it. I'd do it again.

You were here at the time, I believe, but you probably don't remember my old sig line:

The floggings will continue until morale improves.

And, you can be damned sure that that's tongue in cheek, but you deserve this, trying to spread this shit.

[BeHereNow]

136. Spread this Shit? Honey I LIVE this shit, every day.

Get your ass to a public school classroom
and then get back to me with some "hope."
The battle is formidibable and depressing.
Take my word, as you have clearly not been near a classroom
in your whole life.
The kids are our future,
and trust me when I say we are SCREWED.
AS as person in the trenches
I swear this to you.
SCREWED.
WE ARE SCREWED.
If the future depends on our kids-
WE ARE SCREWED.
BHN

[Guaranteed]

137. Fine, fuck it. nt

[linazelle]

108. You are attacking the individual--why?

You make assumptions about what is being taught to children based on this thread--attacking this person's very livelihood.

How would you like it if somebody attacked what you do for a living?

[Guaranteed]

113. I didn't bring up the fact that the OP is a teacher- the OP did.

That almost sounded like a threat, to me.

[linazelle]

127. If you read the thread, it was brought due to other questioning

I just don't see how mentioning that one is a teacher warrants an attack which does nothing but derail the thread from the original issue.

[Guaranteed]

129. The original issue was hope. This person, this teacher, doesn't

believe in hope, despite being proven wrong by their own students.

This person goes out of their way to crush people's beliefs and dreams. You don't expect me to react strongly against that, especially as they're teaching our next generation?

[linazelle]

130. You never answered my question: How would you like being attacked

based on what you do for a living?

It is obvious that you are continuing antagonize simply to get a rise out of the author. What is your purpose for doing this? It certainly can't be because of a lack of the author's hope, because this kind of over-the-top, conclusion-jumping doesn't warrant that type of a response.

What is your purpose?

[Guaranteed]

131. The basis is not what the OP does for a living- it's what the OP is

saying.

You don't tell kids "There's no hope." You don't tell kids "You're fucked."

Those are about the WORST things you can say to a child.

If the OP is having momentary doubts, as a Democrat, that's entirely understandable. We all do.

But you don't go around trying to trounce the hope of others- and ESPECIALLY your students.

Yeah, the VERY FIRST POST from the OP disclosing that he/she is a teacher BAGGED ON his/her students, hard, calling them illiterate.

If the OP needs support, they should say so. Otherwise, they should shut the fuck up. And they should DEFINITELY NOT be bringing this into their classroom, especially if they are working with those who don't have much hope to begin with.

[linazelle]

134. You STILL did not answer the question.

[Guaranteed]

135. My answer is that, if I was a teacher, I would never bring this attitude

to my students.

And I DIDN'T, when I was trying to help young people in inner Stockton find jobs, nor when I worked with people with schizophrenia.

You want to talk about hopelessness. The people who I saw who had their own MINDS working against them, playing tricks on them, but nevertheless KEPT GOING- THOSE were strong people. They were inspiring.

[BeHereNow]

138. Then you would be doing your students a great dis service,,,

Would you prefer to allow them to believe the only
higher education option available to them was to enlist?
If so, you are a Bush supporter in the area of education.
BHN

[linazelle]

142. I guess that you cannot answer the question about being attacked yourself

That's too bad because if you answered it, then you might not be attacking someone else.

[BeHereNow]

139. How conveniently you OMIT the fact that I am working my ASS off

expose my students to MORE than is expected of them.
I encourage research, integration of art and academic curriculum.
You are an uninformed critic on tis thread BGL.
No one could appear more foolish at this point.
I am NOT the enemy in public education, as you would imply.
I am the equalizer in the dumbing down of the Amerikkkan
population.
In typical "left wing"extremism, you have shot
me down as the enemy, when in fact I
have done FAR more than you, as
far as planting seeds for the future
than the "librul" right.

I am IN the trenches,
You talk about them, but do nothing of consequence
to change them.

Carry on,
BHN

[BeHereNow]

109. "Something to strive for" is my specialty

Something other than becoming cannon fodder.
Meanwhile, what have you done lately?
BHN

[roody]

156. I hope you tell them that their hope is in NOT

joining the military!! I teach first grade dual language immersion class. This is a very hopeful method. Half the class is English speaking and half is home language Spanish. K and 1 are 90% Spanish and one teacher uses only one language. I only speak Spanish to my class. The minority language (less status) is the language of status in my classroom. The children are each other's teacher of their second language. The poor and the rich are peers. The poor migrant kids' culture is appreciated and they will have no reason to feel alienated by their education. They get a firm language base in their mother tongue, hence more literacy. Each year the English part of the day is increased by 10%. By the way, in fourth grade, the English language learners have mastered English better than their counterparts in the English only program. So I have digressed.

[fooj]

161. Good for you!

And what do you bring them...daily? You bring them HOPE. Thank you.

[roody]

163. I also take the very small risk of telling them if it comes

up that I am not teaching them to read and write so they can join the military and go off and be killed on the other side of the world. I also do not say the pledge of allegiance. I stopped that when we invaded Iraq. When we have our weekly flag ceremony whole school I stand and am respectfully silent.

[fooj]

160. I'm a teacher. I KNOW what's going on.

Find a way to hope. You OWE it to those kids and you owe it to yourself. Just find a way. It's that simple and that important.

Peace.

[helderheid]

83. May all beings be at ease

** THE METTA SUTRA

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the paths of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech.
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied.
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful,
Not proud and demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
that the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Whatever living things there may be,
Whether they are weak or strong, omitting none,
The great or the mighty, medium, short, or small,
The seen and the unseen,
Those living near and far away,
Those born and to-be born,
May all beings be at ease.

Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Free from hatred and ill will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down
Free from drowsiness,
One should sustain this recollection.

This is said to the be sublime abiding.
By not holding to fixed views,
The purehearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.

Happiness cannot be found
through great effort and willpower,
but is already present, in open relaxation and letting go.

Don't strain yourself,
there is nothing to do or undo.
Whatever momentarily arises in the body-mind
has no real importance at all,
has little reality whatsoever.
Why identify with, and become attached to it,
passing judgment upon it and ourselves?

Far better to simply
let the entire game happen on its own,
springing up and falling back like waves --
without changing or manipulating anything --
and notice how everything vanishes and
reappears, magically, again and again,
time without end.

Only our searching for happiness
prevents us from seeing it.
It's like a vivid rainbow which pursue without ever catching,
or a dog chasing its own tail.

Although peace and happiness do not exist
as an actual thing or place,
it is always available
and accompanies you every instant.

Don't believe in the reality
of good and bad experiences;
they are like today's ephemeral weather,
like rainbows in the sky.

Wanting to grasp the ungraspable,
you exhaust yourself in vain.
As soon as you open and relax this tight fist of grasping,
infinite space is there -- open, inviting and comfortable.

Make use of this spaciousness, this freedom and natural ease.
Don't search any further.
Don't go into the tangled jungle
looking for the great awakened elephant,
who is already resting quietly at home
in front of your own hearth.

Nothing to do or undo,
nothing to force,
nothing to want,
and nothing missing --

Emaho! Marvelous!
Everything happens by itself.

[renate]

155. thank you

:hug:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

85. Quit, then. Give up.

[BeHereNow]

90. Actually, I have given up, except in my own backyard.

I have NO faith in the American people at large.
I say this because I work in Special Education in
our public schools.
What I see on a daily basis has completely destroyed my
faith in the citizens of this country.
What we do to the children, who are the least among us,
not to mention the children of the countries we have allowed
the corporate masters to kill and decimate, shows me that
American, BOTH left and right are completely delusional as
to what the problem is.
None the less- I go to work every day
and give 100% of my being to making a difference in at
least one life.
The numbers are mounting against me, but still
I fight for the children I work with.
I know am losing the battle when I see what silliness
the "left" chooses to delude themselves as victorious over.
Nothing has changed, it has only gotten WORSE.
My question, as posed on this thread is,
HOW have any of our actions made a difference?
AS of this moment- not one reply.
BHN

[anarch]

87. I hope it doesn't hurt too much when I die

I hope it's over quick and doesn't involve starvation. Starving to death would suck. Other than that...sorry, not feeling real hopeful these days either.

[xxqqqzme]

91. William Sloan Coffin...

I think that hope reflects the state of our soul rather than the circumstances
that surround our lives. So hope is not the equivalent of optimism. Its opposite
is not pessimism but despair. So I'm always hopeful. Hope is about keeping the
faith despite the evidence so that the evidence has a chance of changing.

Hope criticizes what is, hopelessness rationalizes it. Hope resists,
hopelessness adapts. William Sloan Coffin

[Lexingtonian]

92. I can't even figure what you really want. n/t

[BeHereNow]

93. What makes you think I want anything?

I started the thread simply stating my view of the facts and
what they mean, in my view.
As the thread progressed, several reply posters implied that
I was full of shite for my views.
I did request, and "wanted" them to give me
replies and sources proving the magnificent
progress of the libruls to effect change-
to give me hope and another perspective,
but so far, there have been no replies to that end-
only admonishments for seeing what I see.
Do you have valid talking points/sources to give me hope?
I would sincerely appreciate one at this point.
BHN

[Lexingtonian]

100. No, seriously....

I read vague fulminations about "our corporate masters" and can deduce that you don't like what Americans are involved in in the Middle East. I don't actually see "my view of the facts and what they mean" present in any articulate form.

If I had to guess, I'd say that on the preponderance of the evidence you're a classical Marxist, even if you don't identify it that way. But I'm not sure.

I don't mean to be critical. I just think it would help you- and us- if you articulated exactly what you really think is desirable. We can all assume a fuzzy generalized agreement about present politics here at DU. But if you want specific arguments made to you about why particular things have bottomed out and are going to change for the better, you have to give us some specific and plausible theory as a foundation.

[bluesbassman]

101. The magnificent progress?

Yes BHN, you are absolutely right, our country is in a terrible state right now. But six years is a relatively short period of time. How long do you suppose it took for the civil rights movement to bear fruit? It's due to the efforts of past Liberals and Progressives that we have enjoyed most of the civil liberties we have. There was a significant number of Americans who allowed themselves to be manipulated by bush and the neocons, but that movement is dying as we speak. It's our turn and duty now to take up the mantle of "Liberal" and begin to repair the damage that has been done. In the future, what we do now will be cited as the "empirical evidence" that you"re now asking for.

[EFerrari]

96. Yes. We are now unofficially but truly "something else"

And maybe that should trouble me more than it does but I'm alergic to nationalism. Or, maybe it has and I'm fresh out of sorrow and tired from constant "red alerts".

:hug:

When they attack Iran, I will be in the street. It may not do any good but I can't sit with the alternative.

[jzodda]

97. Hope, Despair are all emotional states

They typically fall somewhere in the middle of reality for most people...Hence the phrase "glass half-empty", "glass half full"

I am a "glass half full" person, meaning I have hope with regards to our country. I refuse to give up in despair because for the powers that be? Thats exactly what they want from you. They want you to grumble to yourself, not vote and take no action on the status quo.

What we need to do is fight: A good start is to take back at least one of the chambers of Gov this november. Then fight like hell to influence the Dems to start to reverse the damamge. We are slowing heading in this country to a mini version of the late 19th century of robber barons, relaxed labor laws, and over-worked and under-paid people. In reality we are probably far more there then we want to admit as a country to ourselves. Its up to us to open the eyes of the blind majority so they start to fight back as well.

[hopeisaplace]

98. Hopeisaplace to the rescue :)

part of my lyrics,

(Chorus)
To make a difference
To change this world
To love when love cannot be returned
To know that some live on a dime
To give our most precious gift
Our time
To teach our children compassionate grace
And let them know hope is a place


:grouphug:

[Lexingtonian]

105. .

http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/Hope-Has-a-Place-lyrics-Enya/9D7DFEB94F8B1E07482568780015EE7D

:-)

[hopeisaplace]

112. Lovely lyrics and song

:)

[leftofthedial]

120. 2000 was a coup

there is only one way to overthrow a coup

and it does not involve voting booths

[Spider Jerusalem]

144. You had hope before, now you have none.

Yet very little has actually changed, save your perceptions. This idealised 'America' you speak of, that you say is 'over'...it never existed. It was only ever a dream, an ideal. A mirror we held before us that showed us not as we are, but as we could be. And now that you've seen the true reflection, you just want to sit in a dark room so you don't have to look at it again. But the fight goes on. And America WILL be better than it is--it's just going to take time. If the members of the suffrage movement, the labour movement, the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, etc, had NOT persevered despite fiercely entrenched opposition, armed with naught save their hopes and their numbers, we'd not have gotten much of anywhere.

'...never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. - Winston Churchill

[marions ghost]

150. exacty

there is anger and disillusionment all along the left right continuum, expressed in different ways. No matter where she is on that spectrum, BHN is angry BECAUSE she has seen the truth and lashes out to discharge her stress. She needs to place the blame somewhere (OK we can take it).

As you say Spider, it's the dream of America that has been shattered. It's the illusion of a government that cares about and invests in its citizens--that is gone. It's the illusion of a country that "works" --that is eroded. It's the illusion of the Land of Freedom (speech, press, assembly, religion, freedom from illegal surveillance and search, election by the people etc...) that has been exposed. This is a massive overwhelming amount of disillusionment for some and they spend time in the pit of despair.

Dispelling these illusions is the first step to recovery. There will be anger and loss of hope. We are in the early stages of a collective grief. But we will come out of that state. We will persevere against those who abused the public trust and trampled on our constitutional rights for their own selfish gain. We will create the America we know we deserve to live in. We will learn to direct our righteous anger in positive solutions.

[saltpoint]

154. I have not bumped into you on DU for some time, Spider Jerusalem,

and that is my loss.

This afternoon I read with exceeding pleasure your perfect post.

A large step down a noble path. Thank you.

[bear425]

162. Excellent post. Idealism is a double edged sword.

The OP would do well to read your post.

Never give in, indeed.

[saltpoint]

153. Not at my house, buster.

You join us out there volunteering for blue candidates and let's see what we can do as a formidable team for the 06 midterms.

[motocicleta]

164. I agree with Jerusalem Spider, as far as the fact that your America

that you think is gone - it never was, and I say that there exists no connection between hope and empirical data. On the one hand you have human emotion, on the other scientific fact; I don't see that there has ever been a connection between these two realms.

When I get down and hopeless, which does happen all the time - I simply cannot comprehend what the american people are willing to put themselves through before they decide to change it - I just spend more time with my daughter. It's a big world, this too shall pass, whatever platitudes I need - I will hang on to them, because she needs me to. I am almost jealous of those who can simply give up hope, because as a parent I don't feel that I have that option. Parenthood actually forces me to constantly check my nihilism so that I don't take her childhood away from her.

Usually I just come back to Churchill: "the american people will always do the right thing, but only after they have exhausted all other options" or something to that effect.

Good luck, bhn.

[stevedeshazer]

165. The terrorists have won? Bah.

I'm not giving up.

[robinlynne]

166. I think there are moments when we all feel that way, and this

is a perfect forum in which to express those feelings. It is part of the process. We are fighting against a powerful enemy. It si ahrd, and sometimes it will get harder even than this. I don't think anyone should be critical of the writer who has feelings of despair. But we should remind each other, that we are in this together. and for the long haul. NO matter how rough it is. And that it is worth it. Throughout history there has been a fight for truth. I am proud to be a member of that fight, and to know all of you, and of course, there are moments when it feels like all is lost. Please see this 4 minute video "battle for america". it may make you cry, then it will make you proud.
http://www.current.tv/studio/media/684.htm

[kentuck]

167. There's always a breaking point...

...and I think they must be near that point...? They must...

[seafan]

168. Yes, we are all fed up, exhausted, disillusioned and demoralized....

But our jobs will never change, and that is to spread the truth to everyone, 24/7/365. We all, here, already know what these criminals are about, what they are doing and how they are doing it.

Many other Americans know something is seriously wrong, but are not yet informed and aware of the serious threats, due to the abject failure of the media to inform the public. It's up to those of us who have been paying attention, to bring everyone up to speed ASAP.

It took courage and perseverance when our country was founded. It will take the same now. And cheer up, there are millions more of us now.


Unload, if you will, BeHereNow; your blood pressure and digestion will thank you.

But keep busting those rocks of corruption that the GOP built. These guys are C.O.M.I.N.G. D.O.W.N.



Here is what I have tacked to my bathroom mirror:

A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles.

It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt.

If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."

Thomas Jefferson, April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826

[motocicleta]

172. a hearty 'hear, hear'

great quote, too.

I will not give up.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

169. I try not to lose hope.

Some days though it feels like I don't live in the America I knew. It's like like some fascist theocracy. I fear for our future, but I will still do as much as I can to make it better. What other choice is there?

[Imagevision]

170. November/house-senate change- impeach Bush - get on with life

no-biggie! But we need someone like...maybe Feingold to take things to the next level, kerry? he didn't even agree with voter-fraud so so much for that.

[Kablooie]

171. There is no question that this regime will fall.

The question is when. Hope is relative. If you pin your hopes on it changing by Monday you will likely be disappointed. If you are thinking of the fall elections, the situation gets a little more promising, not all the way there of course, but the possibility of things turning towards Democrats is there. Thinking of the presidential elections, the posibility is even stronger.

If you start thinking in decades, well hell, this will all be past history and there will be new things to worry about.

Of course simple things like a nuclear Iran war would upset the probablities quite a bit. Kinda hard to assess that right now because it is so far into sciencefiction land that it's hard to make realistic predictions from that scenario. (Not that it can't happen. These guys live in their own fantasyland and may drag us all along in there with them.)

But someday, they will fall and something else will take over.

My hope is that it happens within my lifetime.

[PetraPooh]

178. I avoided this thread all day, till a few minutes ago. This is a disgrace

Upon entering and seeing a 1000+ poster starting the thread, I hoped/expected to see reminders. Reminders of successes forgotten in one's moment of gloom. But instead I see many people who are just as irrational in their flaming support of "HOPE" with no results, no successes . . . as the 38% or so of citizen sheeple that still blindly follow the president and his administration. So few answers and so much flame, I think many of the responders here just proved his point beyond reprieve. Absolutely shameful, such intolerance, such lack of information, such fiery and demeaning displays of yourselves.

At one point, there was a thread about how misspellings might be an embarrassment to DU; this is the real shame and embarrassment. I can SOOOOO see this thread being copied to a freeper forum as an example of how we can't even support our own. RRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG!

[bluesbassman]

179. You missed the point.

In the original post, and throughout the thread BHN was asking for empirical evidence that we have accomplished anything during the bush regime. The answer lies in the many responses to stay focused, keep going and never give up. The empirical evidence is that we are still here and we will continue to fight, and we will succeed in regaining our country. The snarky replies, I think, were in frustration with BHN's continued denial that there is hope, and denial that we have any power to effect change.

[PetraPooh]

181. He started by asking for empirical evidence, why shouldn't he

continue to ask for it? "we are still here" is not empirical. Actually if you (and I) were OUT THERE instead of in here, maybe THAT would be empirical. Hope is not empirical, calling someone a whiner or any other type of good for nothing is nothing more than bullying, which I had hoped was limited to freepers. So much for hope.

[BeHereNow]

180. Welcome to the reality club PetraPooh...depressing, isn't it?

Your post has nailed my point, most eloquently.
For this, I thank you.
BHN

[PetraPooh]

182. You're welcome, I so wish reality in here (DU) was better.

As you see I am a relative newcomer and I am often shocked at the embarrassing behaviours displayed by these supposedly hopeful people. Hateful is mostly what I have seen with few exceptions. They are no better at staying on topic and being rational than the freepers. I wouldn't be surprised to find that this post gets me banned, but really it is quite outrageous to see that US citizens, party affiliations no matter, are all essentially the same with such few and rare exceptions.

[Neil Lisst]

183. I may be a cynic, but there's always hope.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

184. In 1988, everybody thought the USSR and Apartheid would exist indefinitely

Things DO change.

[nonconformist]

186. BHN, I hear you

I've posted as much myself before.

I think we're fucked, frankly.

[H2O Man]

187. Not being able

to return to Ixtlan is part of every generation's life experience. Humanity can never go backward to a previous time. Life always changes, and people must change to master change.

There are problems. Big problems. But there has to be plenty of good, too, or we would all be dead. But we are not all dead, and while we are not, we should be mentally alive, spreading that plenty of good.

This is a great time to be alive. We have a huge job at hand. We can do it. We will do it. Let's stop thinking, "No." Let's stop saying, "No." Let's stop living, "No."

Instead, let us become, "Yes!"