Was that crazy story about rail containers being dumped in AZ true? Maybe!

[originalpckelly]

For original reference here is the post that was linked to from the Awful forums about this:
"Homeland security buys in bulk and at great premium millions of dollars of useless personal appliances from China, such as rice cookers, nose hair trimmers, massage wands, and heating pads, boxes them up, and buries them in railroad shipping containers in the Arizona desert for no reason whatsoever other than to spend its budget and prevent sub-agencies from getting the funds. I suspect that the money goes to a middleman in order to secretly siphon funds into foreign organizations which we can't support over the table, but this is just me trying to find a justification for this massive and intentional government waste."
Here is the link to the Awful forums post:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1845896

Now look what I found at the Barry M. Goldwater Range/Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=32%C2%B037%2742.58%22N,+113%C2%B0+8%2715.98%22W&t=k&ll=32.628104,-113.137373&spn=0.002019,0.005407

At least we know it is possible to get railroad shipping containers into the Arizona (Sonora) Desert. The question is when were those Google photos were taken? Most Google photos only go back to 2002, so we know it was later than that. Most of the Arizona photos were taken during 2003.

Vetting:
I originally thought this was a joke post because it made wild accusations, but as I have shown the wildest could be true. Something Awful is known for this kind of junk, but I have a better question: why would someone post this on a comedy forum if it was supposed to be a joke?
In addition the person who made these claims was right about a lot of things:
1. Bush really does let up on his Texas accent; I have video evidence of it:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/life/
If you click on the video of Bush in the Oval Office and watch it, you will find he has a lot less Texan in his accent than he does on (MSM)camera.

2. Furthermore on the same web page if you click on the tour Cheney gives, you will find that he is a weirdo, more so than in public. He acts like "that weird kid who mumbles".
3. "There is an administrative law judge who sits in an office in a building near the white-house, earns around 200k per year and has a secretary, and he does nothing except sit, read, and listen to classical music all day. His secretary likewise does nothing. He gets meals taken to him from the White-house kitchen, and is so lonely that he latches on to whoever gets sent and talks to them for hours about the Korean war. His family is all dead and his secretary hates him. In a drawer in his desk he has an old revolver, which he got in there somehow despite that he shouldn't have been able to bring it in. I think he will shoot himself one day."
This should be easy, but I can't find anyone in either the Department of Commerce Building or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, yet who fits those criteria. I did find this person who works for the Department of Agriculture, his office has a budget of $325,000 for three people, but he now only has one female assistant. Alas he was appointed to the Office of Judicial Officer in 1996, but it shows that an administrative law judge makes about $200,000 and that they do have assistants.
Here is the website of the OJO at the USDA:
http://www.usda.gov/da/ojo.htm
This is the nugget that could completely make or break this post, all the other are non-independently verifiable, this is.

This makes me believe this story:
Michael Brown, during his testimony before various committees investigating Hurricane Katrina, said that FEMA had been starved for funding and this was the main reason it could not do better during the hurricane. This weird stuff about things being buried in the AZ desert would give more credibility to this claim.

I need help with this story:
1. We need to find someone who is close enough to the White House to have his meals delivered, who is an administrative law judge, has an assistant, works in an over-regulated industry and has a small case load, served in Korea, and was appointed by Ronald Reagan. This is a lot of information and some of it won't narrow the field down much, specifically the fact Ronald Reagan appointed 361 Federal Judges during his Presidency.

2. We need to find better (and more recent) satellite images of the Sonora Desert in the area of the railroad cars I found.

3. We need to find out why the cargo containers in the picture are there.

In general we need to check-out this story as much as possible, so if you find any evidence to the contrary or in support of this story please post it.

[originalpckelly]

1. Kick (n/t)

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. well that is not very many containers, and the rail

lines they sit upon or roads or whatever, seem to dead end in all directions. This is probably an old mine

[originalpckelly]

3. Well I don't think you fully understand...

They aren't on rail lines. They are the generic kind of shipping containers used by trucking, rail, and ocean shipping. They are called isotainers and measure one of the standard lengths, 40ft.
Here is an article on the shipping containers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_container

This isn't an old mine because shipping containers were not invented until the 1950s, and isotainers did not become popular until the 70s and 80s.
Here is an article on trends in containerization:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/tmd/IPGrain/trends_in_containerization.htm

This is a military base/wildlife refuge in the middle of the Sonora desert. Last time I checked a mine shouldn't be on a bombing range or a wildlife refuge (kinda makes you worry about the animals, doesn't it?) They are on the edge of the picture, and there are roads leading off into the desert. It is highly likely that there far more containers.

The containers are miles from the actual airbase. The containers are miles from any rail line, and only interstate highway 8 goes anywhere near this base, but even it is miles from these containers.

The question is:
WTF are shipping containers doing out in the middle of the f*****g desert?

[originalpckelly]

4. Kick because I want to know if I'm to something or not.(n/t)

[Igel]

5. The glory of a shipping container--if you look at the

photo at the Wikipedia link--is that they can be offloaded from a ship and plopped directly onto a train.

Let's assume, for the moment, that the pictures do show an old mine. There is no need for the containers in the photo to date to before the 1950s--nor for the mine to date to before the 1950s, for that matter. Some closed in the '60s and beyond. Let's assume the mine closed prior to the introduction of shipping containers. All that's needed is for the mine to have railroad tracks, and for people to have a reason to stow the containers there. Not all railroads are on maps. The people that made the decision may wear uniforms. And the containers may not be empty. Who knows what kinds of crap the military wants to store? Or who knows how many containers the military wants to have for when any troops there ship out?

Those containers look to be on rails. Getting them there by truck is possible, but not very easy. My inlaws have a few--they live adjacent to desert, have land, and far too much stuff to fit into their house since they downsized--and bought them because they were dirt cheap. Those puppies were a pain to get there by truck, required a crane to offload, and they aren't going anywhere for a long, long time.

[originalpckelly]

7. I know...but...

This area was a bombing range from the 1940s. No mines could be on there, that is if they didn't want to live dangerously, and quite frankly working in a mine is enough. Secondly, mines require a ton of support structure. Here is more information about the Barry M. Goldwater Range:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/goldwater.htm

Since the resolution of the images in 2 feet, it is hard to see if there are any railroad tracks, but I don't think there are. It is possible to get containers like that off a truck, in fact I went looking and found a company that sells such a type of trailer:
http://www.americantrailerandstorage.com/deliver.html
and since they have a special fleet, I went looking for another company that sells such trailers:
http://www.thechaindrive.com/
here is an ad for a tilting container trailer:
http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?OHID=1115306

So you can see: 1) no mines could be in that area, 2) even if there were mines they couldn't have cargo containers because it was a bombing range in the 40s and those containers were invented in the 60s, 3) 3)it is very possible to get a container trailer out into the desert that can just drop a container without a crane.

[Igel]

10. I think the only reason mines were

suggested is because they usually had railroad tracks around them. You can bomb worked out mines just fine; the roads and railtracks would still be there, unless hit by a bomb. There's no claim that the mines were in operation when the area became military, just that there might have been mines there that justified the roads (or railroads).

The photos looked like they could be railroad tracks; but they could be roads. I'm actually a bit confused because their pattern makes little sense to me: they're laid out in a way that implies the main way in is from the north, but the (rail)road that way dead ends--the entire little area is a blind canyon; it exits to the south, but that makes an impossible turn if it's railway, and unnecessarily sharp if it's for trucks. There's a decent rise at the north end of the canyon, and I don't understand why they just didn't follow drainage.

Anyway, sure it's possible to airlift a container there; they're there, and the question is why? Their simple presence doesn't answer the question, and there could be a few different answers. Maybe somebody with experience stowing containers in the desert could help.

[Igel]

12. A new post, in case you already read what

posted a few minutes ago. At least some was nonsense.

I think they could still be railroads. The locomotive can pull however many cars up the canyon and back them into the sidings just as well as push them up the canyon.

How likely it is depends on what's fuzzed out.

Or, as one poster suggested, cattlecars. Makes no difference.

[originalpckelly]

13. If you trace their origin...

you find they go to the airbases out there. If you look at other railroads these don't look like railroads.

I know the image is fuzzed out, and I am attempting to do my best to get a satellite photo of that area.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

6. I know full well what they are, and I have

some experience looking at aerial photos, and those look like railroad tracks to me.

My best guess would be firefighting equipment pre-positioned by BLM or NFS.

[originalpckelly]

8. Good...

Would you happen to know where I could get images further out in the Sonora desert that are of comparable resolution and are recent.

[troubleinwinter]

9. There are abandoned cattle ranches in that area... Likely old cattle cars.

[originalpckelly]

11. This whole thing doesn't make any freaking sense!

This is the middle of the Sonora desert. There aren't any cows there. There are farms, but they grow crops. Look for yourselves. So those things can't be cattle cars.

Secondly these are one of the standard isotainer lengths: 40 feet (I measured this in Google Earth.)

[troubleinwinter]

14. There ARE abandoned cattle ranches there. It is historical FACT.

There are huge cattle ranches all over Arizona deserts. What on earth tells you that cattle trailers are not allowed to be 40'?

[troubleinwinter]

16. Here are some stock trailers 35'-57' long. Also,

cattle grazing is conducted on the wildlife refuge and the airbase currently under gov't. permit.

[originalpckelly]

15. Co-incidence?

I mean isn't it just a little co-incidental that a fella who claims to have knowledge of the White House, says that DHS buys in bulk at inflated prices, and then when someone looks out in the middle of the Arizona desert, viola there are cargo containers?

[HooptieWagon]

17. Looks like a railroad to me

zoom in and it looks like several RR sidings, judging by the Y's and curves, with some RR cars on them. Could be covered cars like livestock cars or boxcars, but it looks to me more like containers on flatcars.

A mine or ranch would probably only have a single siding. Its unusual that this is fanned out in such a manner. Each siding probably served a different use, and they needed separation for some reason. Probably just space to work, but maybe safety? Even if it was a RR storage yard the tracks would have been parallel. They are fanned out for some reason.

[ThoughtCriminal]

18. They were there in 1996

Here's the MS Terraserver image of the same location dated 6/8/1996

Edit link:
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=12&X=1497&Y=18060&W=3


My guess is that these are either storage or used for training.

I'm fairly certain there are no RR tracks there (Nearest is the out-of-service line to Ajo), but containers are also moved by truck.

[originalpckelly]

19. Yeah, I looked in World Wind and found them too...

I also did more research and found that "Martin Random" has a very active imagination. I'm gullible, he's nuts. He wrote about an awful roommate once before. I should have known better. :) You won't believe the number of bookmarks I have got, wow! More than any other investigation! I guess it was just too much B.S.

Here is the thread about the awful roommate:
http://kadath.org/docread.php?name=Martin_Random

Guess I should get back to work on the Iran-Tonkin research I was doing. Well hopefully, not all of what little itsy-bitsy credibility I had is gone.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

20. Want weird?? WTF is this about 1 mile WNW of the objects!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=32%C2%B037%2757.86%22N+113%C2%B0+9%2716.32%22W&ll=32.632739,-113.154534&spn=0.002218,0.004667&t=k



I've never seen anything like that in google maps/earth.

It doesn't appear in the terraserver http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=12&X=1489&Y=18062&W=1

This area definitely seems to be an old bombing range, as seen by all the nice round dark spots in the area (especially just north of the OP objects).

Maybe this is a sign for planes NOT to bomb here??

Weird.

[warrior1]

21. From Daily Kos comments section.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/12/24219/8100


Uh, sorry guys... (24+ / 0-)

I've been a member of the Something Awful forums in the past...and unfortunately, gigantic and mean-spirited hoaxes are fairly commonplace over there.

Think of it as a massive cesspool of idiocy, with the occasional brilliant fraud to spice things up a bit. Don't assume any of this is true just because it sounds plausible. The author may just be waiting to drop the punchline once everyone's taken the bait.

Everyone's been a sucker at least once.

***
Please also note the the original post was on April 7, 2006. Could just be a belated April Fools joke.