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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 11:44 PM
Original message
Dems: Filibuster the fucker, force the pukes into NookYouLer Option
Stick to your goddamn principles for once and FORCE THE PUKES TO PULL THAT TRIGGER!

WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? You made the deal last time and the pukes STILL got their 3 fascists on the bench! What did you get?

You got shit.

They got their fascist-theocrats, and all you got was "extraordinary circumstances" read, "contrived handjob" that's gonna give you a nice set of blue-balls to go along with your sore asses.

Stand up for yourselves! Stand up for us! Make 'em do it, you've got nothing to lose!

Make them do it, and let the American people see these evil pricks for what they really are.

You may still lose, and they'll get their Judge Wackjob on their Kangaroo Court.

But you'll have done the right thing.

And the American people will learn another lesson the hard way...just like we always do.

But you'll be able to sleep at night.

And so will I.

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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. tell them!
contact your senators. :bounce:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Yes
I even contacted Frist. Not much good it'd do but who knows.
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InsultComicDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Damn right n/t
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very nice!
Do it. People are so positive about the Republican's honesty and integrety right now that I am certain the nuclear option will go over sooooo well. Force them. Force them now. It really is our last chance.
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TominDC Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is a Alito's Judicial Philosophy a Threat to the Future of Social Security
I am going to post this in several places, just in case anyone out there in the blogosphere finds it useful in making a case against Alito. I spent just a few hours on the research, so if you find this useful/convincing at all, please double-check it on your own, and supplement it with your own rearch. This is just meant to raise some important issues, etc.



Does Originalism Threaten the Future of Social Security & Medicare?

Justice Scalia, Justice Thomas, Judge Bork and others have long argued that the Constitution should be interpreted based on how its text was originally understood at the time such text was ratified. Both among themselves and among various other originalists, they disagree about the proper role of stare decisis, in particular about to what degree stare decisis sets limits for the Court when the original meaning of Constitutional text in question conflicts with long-held doctrine. For example, Scalia and Thomas both agree that the current understanding of the commerce clause is inconsistent with the clause’s original meaning, as generally understood at the time of ratification. At a minimum, both are willing to set new limits on Congressional power that are more consistent with their originalist understanding of the commerce clause, even if such limits depart from the Court’s precedent’s to some degree. Thomas is generally willing to go much farther, and largely reject the use of stare decisis altogether, when it conflicts with the proper original understanding, whereas Scalia calls himself a “faint-hearted originalist” who sees stare decisis as a pragmatic exception to his originalist philosophy.(1)

Depending on the future composition of the Court, and whether and to what degree new Justices joining the Court share the originalist views of Thomas or Scalia, the Court may set significant new limits on Congressional power to regulate under the commerce clause, with radical policy implications. This much is clear. What is less obvious is that the Court, if controlled by a Thomas-Scalia led radical originalist block (possibly including Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito – if the latter is confirmed), might also create sharp new limits on the power of Congress to spend.

In recent years, there have been a large number of law review articles and books written on how various provisions of the Constitution were originally understood at the time of ratification. Most of these articles are written by conservative law school professors, and most have reached the conclusion that the current Court view on the Constitutional provision in question is sharply inconsistent with the provision’s original meaning. One particular area of focus, especially within the last few years, has been on the Spending Clause,(2) which has been interpreted by the Court for many years to mean Congress has broad power to spend on behalf of the general welfare, as Congress understands it.(3) Several originalist scholars have critiqued this view and argued that the Spending Clause in fact gives Congress no additional powers to spend, but rather acts as limit on Congressional power to spend when it exercising its otherwise enumerated powers.(4) The implications of at least some of this scholarship is that Congress cannot spend money on any program that is not specifically authorized under some other section of the Constitution, such as post offices, armies, navies, or protecting patents and copyrights. If a majority of the Court accepted this view of the spending clause, then the Court could potentially prohibit Congress from spending on a wide range of areas, including, for example, on the rebuilding of New Orleans.(5)

How would this limitation affect government programs as Social Security and Medicare? In the 1937 case Helvering v. Davis, the Supreme Court upheld the Social Security Act as within the "penumbra" of the term “general welfare” within the Spending Clause.(6) If the Court were to follow the originalist view on the Spending Clause, it could very well reject its precedent in Helvering and declare Social Security unconstitutional, finding the program is neither authorized under the commerce clause nor any other text of the Constitution. Presumably, the Court could make a similar finding regarding Medicare. Would any originalist seriously argue that the Constitution, as it was understood at the time of ratification, authorized programs like Social Security and Medicare? If the Court ever includes a majority of Justices who follow the views of Justice Thomas, it is difficult to see how the Court could do anything but strike down the Social Security and Medicare Acts, given Thomas’s view on stare decisis. Has Judge Alito given any indication that he would take a different approach from Justice Thomas?

End Notes:

(1)Antonin Scalia, A Matter of Interpretation (1997) p. 140.

(2) Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States…”

(3) See See Robert G. Natelson, THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE AND THE PUBLIC TRUST: AN ESSAY IN ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING, University of Kansas Law Review, November, 2003, p. 4 (“The General Welfare Clause is one of the two principal constitutional pillars supporting the modern federal welfare state -the other being the Commerce Clause. While the Commerce Clause supports most unfunded federal regulation, the General Welfare Clause is said to include an implied spending power used to justify federal spending programs and the regulatory conditions attached to them. For that reason, the General Welfare Clause sometimes is called the Spending Clause.”); see also United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 64-66 (1936 South Dakota v. Dole, 483 U.S. 203, 206-07 (1987), Oklahoma v. Civil Service Commission, 330 U.S. 127, 144 (1947). Helvering v. Davis, 301 U.S. 619, 640 (1937), and Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548, 586-87 (1937).

(4) See Robert G. Natelson, THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE AND THE PUBLIC TRUST: AN ESSAY IN ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING, University of Kansas Law Review, November, 2003, pp. 54-55. “The current Supreme Court interpretation, the Hamilton-Story view, stands the original meaning of the General Welfare Clause on its head. The Clause was not a qualified grant of spending authority, as Hamilton and Story claimed. Nor did it merely point to other powers, as Story understood Madison to have said. On the contrary, the General Welfare Clause was an unqualified denial of spending authority. It did not add to federal powers; it subtracted from them.
The General Welfare Clause was designed as a trust-style rule denying Congress authority to levy taxes for any but general, national purposes. Because the Clause prevented Congress from using tax revenue for local or special interest purposes, the Clause indirectly qualified the appropriation power. Even if some enumerated power could be enlisted to support the appropriation, federal tax money was not to be used for the private benefit of a museum-however worthy-in Savannah, nor an artist-however struggling-in New York.”) (emphasis added). See also, Jeffrey Renz, WHAT SPENDING CLAUSE? (OR THE PRESIDENT'S PARAMOUR): AN EXAMINATION OF THE VIEWS OF HAMILTON, MADISON, AND STORY ON ARTICLE I, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 1 OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, John Marshall Law Review, Fall, 1999, p. 142-3 (“Thus, neither Madison nor Story nor Hamilton were fully correct in their measurement of the General Welfare Clause. The clause is not a mere introduction to the enumerated powers that follow. Neither is it a grant of power to spend. It cannot be a spending power without expanding or eliminating the limitations on power expressed in the clauses that follow it. The General Welfare Clause is a nullity when considered solely against Congress' enumerated powers. But when considered against the powers granted to the other branches, it makes sense as an indirect check on the Executive.”); John C. Eastman, RESTORING THE "GENERAL" TO THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE, Chapman Law Review, Spring 2001. (“For the first eighty-five years of our nation's history, under both the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution, the language of "general welfare" was viewed as a limitation on the powers of Congress, not as a grant of plenary power. If the Court would re-assert that limitation as it has reasserted the original limitations of the commerce clause, the major federalism decisions of the past decade would be anything but much ado about nothing.”)

(5) Eastman, supra at 79 (“And the Fourth Congress did not even believe it had the power to provide relief to the citizens of Savannah, Georgia after a devastating fire destroyed the entire city.”) Eastman argues that the original understanding of the words “general welfare” in the Spending Clause was to limit Congressional spending, even that which was otherwise authorized by other text of the Constitution, only to purposes that supported the United States in general, rather than in particular parochial interests. Among his arguments supporting this view is that early Congresses believed they did not have the power to fund particular roads and other infrastructure projects within a state or to rebuild after a fire. Presumably, that was because the early Congress believed it had no independent power, under the Constitution, to rebuild after a disaster such as a major fire.

(6) Helvering v. Davis, 301 U.S. 619 (1937), at 640.

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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Alito is a threat to the Constitution, our Freedom, our Privacy, and
everything else we hold sacred.

unless your a radical Corpratistic-Christian Talibani Bigot...

and Welcome to DU. Nice post!
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Filibuster this Bork
Some talking head tonight was saying that this Alito hearing might be used by the repubs to divert attention from the Abramhoff, De Lay, secret wire taps, etc. Well let's hope the media can do two or 3 things at once. Dems always find a reason for not standing up to this worthless crowd. They have done nothing but lose for 6 years!! Alito's paper trail is terrible. The repubs are going to have to drag up every little scrap of evidence where he voted for "the people" and not the corps and politicians to say nothing of women's rights.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. that's right. Whoever that talking head was, of which you speak
is a friggin' moron. Alito will not help the pukes in any way...well, if the Dems grow a set he won't. He'll become just another beautiful disaster...another layer of massive folly, corruption, deceit, and evil on the dying star that is the former Repuke party, which is rapidly reaching critical mass.

"Watch it explode
While fragments of ironies examples fly
And hit the shore
And tyranny's torn
From the podiums where leaders stand
But rule no more

Plead with nothing while they lecture about something
Protest the way we're passive today

Watch it explode
While it's not impossible
For flowers to bloom and grow next to graves
And babies are born
In the same buildings where people go
To pass away
Pass away"

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. It'll help us get more votes in 2006...
If people really understand the stakes after a fillibuster step is taken (if they go nukular!)...
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. yep. No doubt about that! I think the wiretap shit is scaring some
americans awake....but we've got short memories, unfortunately, and we'll probably have to have our rights trampled more before we learn.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. You're right. Please call or email your Senators.
Contact info by entering the last names on top-left at:
www.vote-smart.org

For people who have never phoned a Senator's office before, here is an example of how to go about it:

1) Find the phone number of the office. You can do this by going to vote-smart.org and entering the Senator's last name on the top-left.

2) Call and say, "Hello, my name is ____ may I speak to someone about the nomination of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court."

3) After being connected to someone else, say, "Hello, I'd like to leave a message for the Senator to please filibuster against Samuel Alito for the Supreme Court. We need the Supreme Court to protect civil liberties, and Alito has a bad record on civil liberties." You can also mention a specific issue you care about regarding Alito, if any.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. READ ERIC's POST EVERYONE!!!
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. Agree.
The only tool left. Use it or lose it.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. Recommended this post
nt
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thanks, Eric. I hate to say this, but given the circumstances,
Edited on Tue Jan-10-06 01:25 AM by goodboy
if the Dems don't grow a set, stand up for their values and principles, hold the criminal repukes to account, take back the House (at the very least) and maybe the Senate, Impeach Chimpy and Cheney, or send them to the HAGUE to be tried as the war criminals they are..


I'm gonna Peace Out of the party.

If they can't stand up for themselves, how can they stand up for me? For us? For America? For HUMANITY!

These issues before us are not petty, pointless, paltry, partisan, political pork products.

They're the threads of the very fabric of our democracy, values, history, our way of life, and most importantly, our future.

Thankfully, it looks like that Pukes have fucked up so badly (as they always do) that they'll not be in power again in our lifetimes.


that is, if the Dems grow a set...
:D
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. And by the way
Edited on Tue Jan-10-06 01:45 AM by buddyhollysghost
even if the MSM report that you slept with midgets in one of the Senate Conference rooms, we will not be shocked or make too much fun of you.

Just give us some hope and some moral leadership and some concern for your society, and we'll happily forgive you for your sex lives.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. every time a new 'revelation' came out about Clenis, his ratings went UP!!
Besides, we love this shit, we got Springer on the TV AND THE RADIO!


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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
14. Couldn't they close the government
We can't let this fascists get through. We're so doomed. :cry: Goodbye my freedoms.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. I couldn't agree more
This posturing crap has gone on long enough they need to fillibuster this Scalia clone.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. If they don't fillibuster here, what's the point in even having this rule!
What WOULD be extraordinary circumstances then, pray tell, if we don't have these circumstances now? What would it take, some pseudo evidence that Alito was Hitler reborn or something like that? Dems need to get a backbone now. They will either get it now, or they will get thrown out ultimately in round 2 of 2008 after we get rid of the Rethugs in 2006!
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. Well said cali!
If these aren't extraordinary circumstances, what are? If the jack-boot was on the other foot, and it was the Dems trying to force through a far left nominee, you can bet the repukes would have no qualms about filiBUSTering the guy. SG
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. I know and I agree with you
I think that absolutely they should fillibuster--

I think either you took my post the wrong way, or I am reading your's the wrong way, but I am 100% FOR fillibustering against Alito.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Nope, wasn't disagreeing. Just reinforcing your statement!
We NEED to fillibuster these folks. These congress critters NEED to listen to OUR wishes to do so, not their corporate sponsors! Even if it means shutting down the government if they go nuclear! We have to show them that there's a line they can't cross! We can't let them get used to having "one party rule"!
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Ok gotcha-sorry!
I need to take a reading refresher course lol
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Boxerfan Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
17. Nothing to loose & it will earn Dem's much needed respect.
Being civil just doesn't cut it when you are dealing with bullies. Like the schoolyard bully they need someone to stand up to them & kick the snot out of them.

This goes for dealing with ALL republicans(ewww!) Never give them slack on an issue & stand up for yourself at all costs. Any sign of weakness on your part & they will attack. Sad but true...No more taking shit folks STAND UP & FIGHT!!!
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sweetm2475 Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
18. well said. K&R...and please call, email, fax, your senators...
and tell them the same thing!:yourock: :headbang:
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
19. ditto
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
21. I agree.
So far I'm not totally opposed to Alito.
He did answer Leahy very well on the issue of the 4th.

But NAWL says 'no' and he ruled despite a severe conflict of interest regarding Vanguard.

So yes, filibuster his ass, let the Republicans do away with the filibuster, then see what happens when it comes back to haunt them.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
22. If I was playing chess...
I'd make em use up their nukkkular piece.

Though I don't agree with it.. it will be a powerful
tool for us when the Dems gain control.. either in the
next election or before (due to criminal indictments).

There's no immediate or long term gain to wimp out of this fight.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
23. I would bet on Feingold to filibuster this one.
.
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
24. Feinstein's DC Office took the call...but Boxer's office said they're...
Edited on Tue Jan-10-06 11:21 AM by Dunvegan
...not in session, so she doesn't know what effect the message will have.

Harrumph...maybe she's back in California...I'll try Boxer's local office.

(Edited to add: Anyone who has a senator coming up to bat to question Alito today should REALLY try to call. Please!)
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kick
:kick:
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. thx BHG.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well said (nt)
nt
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Sick_of_Rethuggery Donating Member (853 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
29. There is another nice pay off to inviting the nookyouler option too...
When a Dem becomes prez in '08 and the senate is in dem hands, then the thugs cannot use filibusters either (they *will* engage in it, believe me, even if the dems now dont and only threaten it)...
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. that's right. payback's a bitch. the pukes are incapable of seeing
past their noses, and the Dems need to exploit that.

otherwise there can be only two reasons for not filibustering Alito:

1. Incompetence

2. Collusion

either way, I'm out.
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
34. Yes, enough of this
empty posturing. Call their bluff--force their hand. You want nukuular? You'll get nukuular. What have the Dems got to lose, for God's sake? :nuke:

SG
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
36. I'm sorry but watching Alito's cold lifeless black beady eyes
made me think he missed the Nazi party by about 70 years. That is some seriously human challenged material. His answers were so devoid of emotion and so "intellectual" when he wasn't full of absolute tripe trying to give the right ones. (the dude was lying his ass off-basically saying yeah I ruled that way and wrote that-but hey I really care about the constitition-trust me) He is the straw that will take this country over to fascist rule. And the Dems know it. IF they lie to themselves about this piece of rancid crap before them then they are beyond hope.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. Jeepers, creepers, where'd they get that freeper? (nt)
Edited on Tue Jan-10-06 08:34 PM by stickdog
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Hailtothechimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
40. Call their bluff. Come on, do it.
I think Schumer will call the tune on this one (or maybe Feingold). Will the others fall into line? Hillary will be the one to watch. I say she does, but we'll find out soon enough.
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