is there room for moderates here at the DU?

[ourbluenation]

I have some moderate views...would you like me to leave?

[WilliamPitt]

1. Yes

:P

(kidding)

[otohara]

2. No, Go Away

run for your life

[WI_DEM]

3. has anybody asked you to?

Yes I think there is room for loyal democrats of all faiths but there will be vigorous debate as well.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. I think there's a small room...

down the hall for for some of us who occasionally question certain orthodoxies around here.

[av8tor05]

You can take a seat right next to me!

[ourbluenation]

9. no kidding - how sad.

[mongo]

5. Stand and fight

There are extremists of all stripes here who give the dem party a bad name.

[walldude]

73. LMAO... that coming from the Porno guy...

You know things are fucked up when the porno guy says watch out for extremists... :rofl:


Hey Mongo, no offense meant here, I am a proud consumer of smut and you and I have usually agreed on DU. I just thought that it was rather ironic that it would be you, telling a moderate, to watch out for extremists...

[NMDemDist2]

6. hell yes, don't let the flames drive you away

stick to your guns

then













:hide:


but seriously, yes there are lots of moderates here for a number of reasons, your milage may vary

[Texasgal]

7. Join the club...

I am more centrist and get hell for it here on DU!

Good luck is all I can say, thick skin helps too.

[Zhade]

54. But what does centrist mean to you?

It's like the whole left/right thing - I think the 'centrist' and 'moderate' labels are often misused the way 'far left' is misused here.

[catmother]

8. no i want you to stay. your views count as much as any one else.

[NoPasaran]

10. I have some moderate views too

And a lot of people on my ignore list!

[madrchsod]

11. i had someone burst my

"liberal balloon" the other day..so i`m not sure about being a moderate....

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. Funny. I always thought of myself as rather moderate until I found

DU and learned that many here would consider me a raging leftie.

[Zhade]

55. You probably ARE moderate.

The political scene in America has shifted so far rightward, you probably never changed.

[leftchick]

66. me too!

[Orangepeel]

92. Double funny! I always thought of myself as a raging leftie

until I found DU and learned that I was really a moderate.

:D

I live in a "purple state," so in real life, I'm considered liberal. On DU, though....

[leftstreet]

12. Define moderate

:shrug:

:popcorn:

[Seabiscuit]

37. My first thought exactly.

Without pointing fingers at anyone, if I were a freeper trying to scramble DU'ers brains, that's the kind of question I might ask (it implies DU'er are immoderate extremists to be mocked and then ignored).

[immoderate]

78. I'm immoderate and I'm not mocked and ignored.

Well not all the time.:P

--IMM

[immoderate]

77. Define immoderate!

--IMM

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

104. I thought of this too. One person's moderate can mean another person's

Zel Miller....

[NNN0LHI]

13. Who are some elected officials you consider moderate?

I like moderates.

For breakfast.

I am joking.

Don

[davidinalameda]

96. with garlic and butter?

:bounce:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

100. I can't answer in a US context,

But here in the UK I'd describe e.g. Gordon Brown, or Robin Cook until his death, as moderately left wing, although even more moderately so than I'd prefer.

There aren't many moderate left wingers here, though - nowadays nearly everyone is either Old Labour (far left, often loony left) or New Labour (only barely left wing, if that); it's barely possible just to be "Labour" any more. For a left-but-not-ultra-left winger like myself this is somewhat depressing.

[marylanddem]

14. How do you define moderate? How do you define extreme?

[Dogmudgeon]

15. Traitor! Whore! Traitor! Whore!

Not a dime's worth of difference!

Conscience! Conscience! My Conscience, Right or Wrong!

Ahh! I feel so much better now.

:evilgrin:

--p!
Can you say "You got a lot of 'splainin' to do", corporatista DINO?"
There, that's four clichés.
I'm getting pretty good at this.
Sudoku should be a piece of cake!

[Zhade]

56. Weren't you bitching about OTHERS mocking people the other day?

Did you suddenly forget the words you said yourself?

[Dogmudgeon]

67. Quite the Christian response, I must say

You haven't been reading the Gospels again, have you, Zhade?

I've posted my "Traitor! Whore!" messages many times on DU. They often get a laugh. I don't seek to attack individuals, only attitudes, so a laugh can be had by all without feelings getting hurt. Although I occasionally err, it grieves me; I'd like to think that I'm self-correcting.

So I can understand your taking an interest in keeping the personal ridicule to a minimum. There's a whole lot of it here at DU alone. Some of it has the uncanny quality of religious fanaticism, although the topic usually isn't religion at all -- it can be pop-culture, computer operating systems, or science, for that matter.

Why, some of it is even about politics.

Although I appreciate your concern, you can rest easy that my target was most surely not the person making the post to which I replied (I think it was the original post). I've been angry at the Democratic leadership myself.

But this practice keeping track of my on-line behavior ... that's curious. Something on your mind?

Lacking telepathy, I can't imagine what it could be. If I could, I'd telepathize myself into every bank vault in America and make, oh, one million dollars.

--p!

[Zhade]

80. Keeping track of your behavior? Don't flatter yourself.

I just happened to recall you talking about mockery in the Scott Adams thread, and found it a bit hypocritical of you to engage in the same behavior you were decrying.

If, as you say, you're self-correcting, awesome. I figure you now understand the point I was making.

[Dogmudgeon]

111. Still playing "Gotcha!", are you?

I mock attitudes, cliches, and philosophies, not individual people (with some reasonable exceptions, like George Bush). I think it's pretty clear, but if this concerns you, I'll try to be more diligent in drawing the distinction. While a thorough search and analysis of my postings (something that has been done, which I find creepy, not flattering) could turn up some exceptions, occasional lapses of judgment do not constitute hypocrisy. Anyway, my remarks about Scott Adams' attitude -- and the "Traitor! Whore!" reactions on DU -- are neither hypocritical nor personal.

Adams mocks people. He justifies mocking people. He uses ridicule and mockery as a form of behavioral enforcement, to maintain the pecking order, to knock people into line.

The accusations of hypocrisy, the attention to my postings, as well as the snappy cocktail-party comeback about flattery, all appear to have the same kind of intent as Adams promotes. My own personal faults may be many, but knuckling under to peer pressure (online or anywhere else) isn't among them.

--p!

[Zhade]

112. Wow, you consider this peer pressure?

Really?

Huh. Well, it may shock you to know I'm working alone, and wouldn't bother wasting my time researching your posts, as I've already made the point you don't happen to agree with.

Having made my point, I'll happily drop it, as I don't really get the whole "internet tough guy" routine.

[dogday]

16. I have see every viewpoint under the sun

posted here.. :hi:

[pennylane100]

17. I am never sure if I am a moderate or a progressive.

as I can't seem to fit neatly under either of those two labels. I think that a plus as it is what seperates us from repugs who are all expected to toe the line.

[melissinha]

18. Welcome

:hi:

We cannot call ourselves liberals if we can't welcome everyone, we are the party of inclusion.....

[Zhade]

57. I don't know about that.

I don't welcome racists, like the old Dixiecrats.

I don't welcome the anti-gay, anti-choice, pro-war, or anti-union people, either.

The tent cloth can stretch only so far before ripping.

[melissinha]

107. fair enough but

we really need to emphasize to some of our people with some moderate beliefs that the inclusion theory that we operate under includes moderates as well as gays and lesbians, multiple religions.. environmentalists...

Know what I mean? So freedom of religion, freedom of choice, and freedom of sexual orientation can also include pro-lifers who respect the values of other people under the big tent.


Just bear in mind that our Original Poster ourbluenation did not express any of the views you have worried about, and should at least give him or her the benefit of the doubt, its the liberal way.

[jsamuel]

19. well, everyone has some issues that they consider "unacceptable"

I do as well, but there are often different views of the same "unacceptable" positions. :shrug: Care to elaborate on what it is you are talking about?

[LSK]

20. such as???

I think in spite of claiming to be a moderate, your views might actually be welcomed here.

[Bridget Burke]

21. Which of your moderate viewpoints have been attacked here?

I don't know enough about you yet...

[NRaleighLiberal]

22. Welcome to the REAL Big Tent!

[cally]

23. I would guess that you recently got into a flamewar

that prompted you to post this. I think most of us have varied political beliefs. I welcome most debate and I think most of us do also. You do need a thick skin. Funny thing is, I once considered myself a moderate Dem. Now I realize a very liberal. I think the labels are meaningless.

[jsamuel]

27. I think she is talking about the Ed Schultz issue

which I don't see anyone getting kicked out of DU over

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=945279#948823

[cally]

28. Thanks

I haven't been following that issue. :hi:

[ourbluenation]

29. He is a she thank you very much and I didn't get into flame war.

but I did find some of the ed shultz thread interesting.

[ourbluenation]

40. thx for the gender edit! but yeah - I did find the ed bashing

to be interesting.

[Zhade]

58. Liars SHOULD be bashed, don't you think?

NT!

[Mr_Spock]

86. Well, here we go again

flaming rhetoric :eyes:

[Mythsaje]

24. Moderate compared to WHAT?

Considering that the curve is heavily tilted to the right these days, it's hard to figure out where you fit into the continuum.

[Atman]

25. There isn't room for ANYBODY here at DU

Stick around long enough, post long enough, and eventually you're going to post something that pisses off somebody. If you don't want to be flamed ever, post in lockstep at sites like Freerepublic. You won't get flamed for views not consistent with the GOP morning blast fax, your posts will simply disappear.

[ThomCat]

26. Funny. I often wonder if there's room here for radicals.

Most of DU seems so middle of the road and cautious most of the time. Any radical spirit here seems to come in brief, occassional glimpses.

[RethugAssKicker]

42. I agree.... Plus, if you're too "radical".. you might get kicked out

by ther Moderators!!!

[FreakinDJ]

30. You say that like Centrist is a bad thing

Welcome to the sanity club my friend

[Joe Fields]

31. The official answer may be yes, but the real one is no.

Sorry, just telling the truth.

You will find out for yourself, if you stick around long enough.

You will, however be the beneficiary of a lot of great information done by some very fine researchers. There are a lot of great people who frequent this site.

The overriding number of posts are pretty radical, though. Not much room for honest debate. Your views get shouted down pretty quickly here.

Just calling it like I see it, and I've been around for a couple of years, definitely long enough to give an informed opinion.

[Catherine Vincent]

32. Yes, please!

just kidding

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ourbluenation]

41. where did I whine?

[Mr_Spock]

85. You talking to "Deleted Message" again?

medication time :yoiks:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

34. Being a moderate at DU

is like being a cat in a roomful of rocking chairs.

Just tuck your tail and hiss.

[Mr_Spock]

87. lol

I don't even think it's a matter of being a moderate per se, it's often just being moderate (as in not radical) at the wrong time! People have moods I guess - I know many of us are different posters from one day/week/month to the next!

[MsTryska]

35. of course there is.....

as long as you can handle competing with hard-left types that attack any view not their own. (not a very liberal trait, imo)

[Zhade]

59. You saw Maoists and Stalinists posting?

Wow, didn't know we had such hard-lefties here.

[MsTryska]

110. are you saying we don't have hard-lefties here?

we do.

and whilst those people may not subscribe specifically to mao or stalin on occassion, i have seen folks espousing communist themes re: property and wealth.


in any case - my feeling on the hard left is much the same as it is on the hard-right - it's not their approach to money and wealth that matters - it's forced conformity and espousal of their specific views, and theirs only - which becomes a problem for a liberal like me.


I must admit tho - i definitely prefer communist propaganda to fascist propaganda from a purely aesthetic viewpoint.

[dogday]

36. Should I stay or should I go

You know it's really killing me
These ugly posts that I recieve..
Nobody liking what I say
Should I stay or go away?
No not everyone agrees
Say it louder if you please

Should I stay or should I go now

edited to add a word

[TheBaldyMan]

38. I'm so left-wing you all round like RW shills to me, there is plenty of

space.

I can't tell the difference between Feingold and Limbaugh so your views would be unlikely to shock me.

[QC]

39. I am the only person pure enough to be here.

All the rest of you need to go away, lest you compromise my absolute purity.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

46. Pure WHAT?

LOL (don't hit me)


T-Grannie

[QC]

48. HAHA! n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

43. Hmmmmmm.....

Only if you don't have any beer.

[seabeyond]

45. i am a moderate about all over the place, in real life, and i have been

here for a couple years. why in the world would you be asking such a question. further, i find a strong majority "moderate" regardless of how they label themselves. very few extreme

again, why the post????

[RagingInMiami]

47. You're even allowed to side with certain republican politicians

As long as it means you want every illegal immigrant deported.

[wordpix2]

65. I was just siding with a repuke today but can't remember for what

it's such a rare occurrence, I should know

[lonestarnot]

49. dependzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

x(

[flyarm]

50. well yes of course..but

i assure you the more you learn the less moderate you will be...and do visit the 9/11 room here at du!!

your anger will reach the stars!!..oh and the election room as well...

hard to stay moderate with facts about this criminal cabal..

fly

[Taxloss]

51. A tricky one, this.

In terms of core left-wing principles, such as redistribution of wealth, state ownership, free-market disciplining, taxation of the rich etc., I would consider myself hardline left in DU terms, far to the left of many if not most posters here. However, DU is not a competition to see who is the most classically left-wing, and there are certain areas that appear to be accepted as orthodoxy by the majority of DUers, if not the site admin. In these terms, I am a moderate. For instance, I reject MIHOP and LIHOP - this tends to be enough to be called a freeper nowadays, for some reason. Similarly, some people who the consensus has annointed are considered beyond criticism, so my personal profound dislike for George Galloway, for instance, does not go down well. Again, this is no a quick way to make friends.

Maybe in some of these cases it is a silent majority against a shrill minority, but it is very uncomfortable to be attacked as a freeper simply for disagreeing with a point of doctrine. I do not find it difficult to accept that many intelligent people on the left hold markedly different views to me, although my time at DU has been a learning curve in how to phrase responses so as to not cause offence. I also do not see the bulk of the right as a satanic horde hell-bent on destruction. It contains many intelligent and humane individuals. They just happen to be very, very wrong.

I can understand that some people treat DU as a sanctuary away from the deluge of idiocy that presently swamps American civil society, and this might make them touchy about being confronted with differing opinions. But to build a return of the left in America, these things must be recognised, confronted and debated. Shouting "troll" and hammering the alert button whenever you see something you don't agree with is not a consensus-building tactic, it is a route to marginalisation.

That's my $0.02, anyway.

[aaronnyc]

95. That is essentially how I've always seen it

While I feel like I'm a "moderate" here on DU, the reality is that my views are all over the place, and are often to the left of the majority of DU. I only feel that I'm a moderate, because I don't buy into liberals/leftists being good and conservatives/righties being evil. All decisions are based on a cost/benefit analysis; I tend to believe that the Left offers a greater benefit on most issues - this doesn't mean that I'm necessarily any more moral than somebody who agrees with the conservative position on most issues. Everybody believes that their position will lead to the most moral possible outcome - the difference is over which process will best help us reach this moral outcome.

I also reject the absurd conspiracy theories heard on DU. I don't believe that Karl Rove or the BFEE is responsible for every bad thing that happens in the world. Does that mean I'm a moderate? Personally, I think it just means that I'm a rational thinking person.

Many posters also seem to turn a lot of Leftist leaders into their personal heroes who they think can do no wrong. I remember on one thread I said that Castro is a "mixed bag" (like pretty much everybody else IMO)- he has done some wonderful things in Cuba, as well as some things which I consider to be very wrong. A few posters who seemed to idolize Castro quickly labeled me a "Freeper troll".

So essentially, I think the problem is not that DU is too moderate or too leftist - it is that a good portion of posters here have an intolerance for difference of opinions, because they see everything in very "black and white" terms. This "us vs. them" mentality unfortunately leads to people labeling everyone who disagrees with them as Freepers.

[Sugarcoated]

52. I consider myself a moderate liberal

And I think I've found my little niche. People here are great and very kind, and for the most part very tolerant. As in any segment of people your gonna get some bad apples, some people who are militant and don't realize they're being rude, or think it's justified. And even some intolerant people. I've had some people jump on me, and not always for "moderate" views, and I just don't engage. Just be honest with your views, be respectful and don't take the bait.

[Zhade]

53. Depends on how you define "moderate".

Are you anti-choice? Fuck off. Pro-choice? Welcome!

Anti-worker rights? Get lost. Pro-union? Welcome!

Anti-separation of church and state? Seeya! Want that wall in place? Hi, my friend!

(You get the gist, I think.)

Really, it comes down to what you mean by moderate.

[ulysses]

60. this again?

Yes, moderates are welcome at DU. It shall ever be thus. Might work on those calluses, though.

[seabeyond]

62. It shall ever be thus.

you are cute, gigglin

[Neil Lisst]

61. Sure there is room for moderates here at DU! But get used to being called

But get used to being called a racist, sexist, corporatist, quisling, homophobe, misogynist a few dozens times a day.

You'll be fine. Just learn to use that Ignore button and send the chronic name callers to purgatory.

[Jose Diablo]

63. No, don't leave, but ya have to have thick hide in here

It's part of the process, of sorting out what people think. The rules are you have to be a Dem, or at least be respectful, but nobody has to agree with anyone else's viewpoint. The mean average between left/right shifts. What used to moderate is now left. You have the screenname for the Dem objective.

Stick around, the moderate view will shift, that's one thing about the political landscape, it's not firm ground. People's views change.

Edit: Who knows, maybe if you stick around you may come around to the proper way to think, that is the progressive view, which right now is viewed by most people as a little to the right of Karl Marx. It could happen.

[NNN0LHI]

64. What is this a hit and run?

I would really like an answer to the question I asked in post #13. That question usually does it.

Don

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. There's room for anyone on DU. I am a moderate. I also don't insult

those who disagree with me..., protest loudly about my "mistreatment"...sigh, roll my eyes, kick or scream. The best part of this party is we don't all get along. Different ideas breed different solutions. But don't go asking me to not post my opinion because it may make you feel uncomfortable.

[Malikshah]

69. Checking watch. Check. Checking calendar. Check

Right on time.

Deja vu all over again.

[mykpart]

70. I think there is room for anyone who

is open-minded enough to consider more than one point of view. That's kinda the difference between us an Rethuglicans.

[melissinha]

109. I'm sorry to say that judging by this thread

there are some DUers that either acknowledge the intolerance which is ok, but others who just don't want to be open....

I though the word "liberal" meant open, was I wrong? I think that some of the sentiments expressed here are quite shameful. Not to be defensive but I am a pretty mainstream progressive so I have participated in only a few flame wars.... but this is distressfull. Hopefully these DUers can put forth a more liberal mindset in public.

[fla nocount]

71. Sure, just throw a saddle over that fence pardner, and....

don't around wiggle around to the point where your panties get wadded up or you'll chaffed fer sure. Also, don't let either of your feet touch the ground because that's the moment you'll start having to take sides and make a stand.

[Cleita]

72. I have no problem with moderates, if they are polite, but

as a pretty lefty liberal I am going to disagree with you and try to convince you of the error of your ways, so please don't get huffy with me if I do. It's all a matter of discussion, not an attempt to make you feel bad.

On the other hand I have had moderates call me all kinds of names and make inferences about my lack of intelligence, just because my views are far more liberal than theirs. So if you are that kind of moderate, then no.

[Renew Deal]

74. Yes

Defend your beliefs. It's fun.

[Toucano]

75. Isn't that up to you?

[leftofthedial]

76. define "moderate"

[immoderate]

81. Define "IMModerate"

I'm hard to pin down.:bounce:

--IMM

[leftofthedial]

82. "in need of pinning"

[immoderate]

83. You don't know how hard it is...

to resist posting a copycat thread.

--IMM

[leftofthedial]

108. you are far stronger than I

would be in similar circumstances.

[Bluebear]

79. Not THIS shit again. nt

[Mr_Spock]

88. You can say that again

Already I see the seeds of discontent being sewn in this thread as in the one it references...

[theHandpuppet]

101. Looks like it

And without even the courtesy to define what the OP means by "moderate". Tiresome in the extreme.

[Ksec]

84. Its called Democratic Underground

One thing about Dems you can be sure of. Theres as many opinions as there are problems.

There will always be disagreements no matter how narrow you make the group. I admire those who can agree to disagree without getting all up in arms.

[entanglement]

89. Yes. We have moderators, not liberators, running the place

:P

[tomp]

90. lamest post in a long time!

you've been asked several times to clarify "moderate" and you've barely responded to any of the posts.

political persuasion is so subjective and the waters have been so muddied by media obfuscation, you really are OBLIGED to be more specific if you want to be taken seriously.

of course, maybe you don't want to be taken seriously.

i may be alone here but i also believe you have a responsibility to your post. if people ask reasonable questions you really ought to try and answer them.

so, until i see different, yeah, go away.

[progressivebydesign]

91. I'm pretty moderate and I've been here since 2001.

I've taken some hits here and there, but am no worse for wear. The Democrats NEED moderate voices as much as hardcore liberal voices... if we ever hope to regain power in D.C. I think there's plenty of room for moderates... I've commented (positively) on a few of your posts, nothing stood out to me that you should leave.

[557188]

93. Not a bash on you

But I find a lot of DU is lacking a strong education in political theory or knowledge in Political Science terms. I cringe at you people and your misuse of the term liberal!

So why you may be "moderate" I'd probably label you something different. Moderate is like this buzz word everyone wants too be, much like the term middle class.

In theory if you're against state ownership and also against unregulated capitalism you are technically a moderate. I could list a bunch of stuff and make sure everyone here is a "moderate" in something. It's a horrible term that doesn't really say much.

So you gotta be more specific!

[New Government]

94. I worry that independent thinking is considered "moderate."

The one thing I worry about here at DU is the insistence by some that everyone walk in lock-step on each and every issue. (Witness this thread, which is now locked: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=951071&mesg_id=951071 ) This seriously worries me. I treasure those who have the guts to think independently and not follow the crowd. There are issues that I really disagree with the majority of DUers. However, I have much larger issues with the Republicans - by far. So, does that make me a moderate? No. It makes me an independent thinker that realizes no political party has a lock on corruption, stupid ideas, idiots, etc. I think too much thinking that "we" are always right and "they" are always wrong is silly and immature. Mainly because "we" and "they" really don't fit into nice tidy boxes like that.
edited to include link

[davidthegnome]

97. Good question

I've been flamed a few times myself for having an opinion that didn't fit with the majority. However, I'd definitely say moderates are welcome here. As others have said, though, don't expect to get along with everyone, and remember that the ignore button is your friend.

[msgadget]

98. Isn't DU a moderate forum

with an active 'other' contingent? Guess it depends on one's definition of moderate because there are DLCers, conservatives and libertarians here too. Everybody's viewpoint is challenged at some point is all.

[Swamp Rat]

99. We're all pretty much "moderates" here at DU.

It's the republicans who've gone off the deep end with their insane fundie buddies.

[baby_mouse]

103. COUGH.

I beg your pardon. *I* am an agenda-infested pinko commie liberal blah blah whatever, what are they calling us these days?

Actually I'm not, but the term "moderate" irritates me as it mostly seems to be a stand in for not really believing anything, a position which I feel to be silly. It seems that these days any opinions at all that aren't RW are "biased". If this makes me an extremist, so be it. Extremism is thus the correct approach when facing down extreme stupidity.

[baby_mouse]

102. Check my sig line for info on how I feel about "moderates".

But don't don't run away on my account. Convince me of the rightness of the moderate position, that's what a discussion board is for.

[mmonk]

105. I don't want anyone to leave but the term moderate

is questionable these days. For example, aggressive pre-emptive war is not a moderate position. Grover Norquist's version of political economics is not a moderate position.

[liberalpress]

106. Well, from what I see..

.. the only thing we seem to bash on a regukar basis around her..

(pauses for a second, as he struggles into his flame-retardant suit)

Is CHRISTIANS!!!!

:evilgrin: