Just logged on and noticed that some DUers are threatening to leave the US

[RagingInMiami]

I hope these are not the same people who were bitching about the goddamn ILLEGALS in this country.

I hope you are all planning on doing this the LEGAL way, even it if may take several years of bureaucratic bullshit.

If you happen to be in that same anti-illegal immigration crowd, I hope you renounce your goddamn citizenship once you leave this country and never ever think about the U.S. again.

Unless, of course, it is the Fourth of July, which will be your designated day to wave the flag.

[laheina]

1. Lol!

And what do you want to bet that they are headed SOUTH.

:rofl:

[sam sarrha]

2. hmmmm i havent seen any such posts.. but i have seen some short posts

bitching about it

[sam sarrha]

9. i did a search and found one about considering retiring outside of the US.

for what sounded like some valid reasons, i wish i could retire to Costa Rica.. a biologists dream.. but it doesnt look like i will ever retire. just work till i keel over dead on the McDonalds burger grill.. good chance cause i'll be working 2 shifts to make ends meet.

[magellan]

3. Believe me, if I leave again it will be the legal way

...as it was the first time, and it'll be the LAST time I call myself an American.

[Mr_Spock]

4. Mmmmmm

:popcorn: Anybody want some?

[Toucano]

5. No one has "threatened" any such thing.

I've seen people sharing their thought process, however.

Where's all this hostility coming from? Could it be jealousy? :)

[RagingInMiami]

6. Why would I be jealous?

[Toucano]

11. I don't know, why would you? There must be some reason it

generates such a hostile reaction. Maybe you have abandonment issues and are afraid of being left all alone. :)

Why would you care one way or another?

[RagingInMiami]

12. I think it is very clear from the OP

You don't really have to look that deep into it or invent some kind of psyco-babble bullshit reason for it.

[Toucano]

17. Yes, it's very clear that you have an irrational hostile reaction toward

people who have the strength and courage to begin new lives outside of the United States.

I simply had a curiousity about the reason for the irrational hostility, that's all.

If you're not in a safe space emotionally where you feel you can talk about it, that's okay, too. :)

[RagingInMiami]

19. You obviously have no clue what I am getting at

Even though it should be obvious if you were keeping up with last week's immigration flamewars.

My "irrational hostility" is towards those DUers who were making such a big fuss about the Mexicans and their flag-waving and their refusal to enter this country "the legal way".

I have no problem with people beginning new lives outside the U.S. I've lived outside the U.S. for several years myself, including Europe and South America. I am, in fact, a dual citizen of the United States and Colombia.

So please save your condensending criticism for someone else.

[Toucano]

25. You seriously think the people who posted about their plans

to emigrate from the U.S. were going to illegally enter another country and work for third-world wages?

Were any of the posts about leaving the U.S., which were in no way threats, made by "those DUers who were making such a big fuss..."? No, they weren't.

There's no connection except the one you tried to invent just so you could throw some gasoline on the fire.

[RagingInMiami]

26. when I lived in Europe

I was there illegally. There were plenty of expatriate Americans living there illegally. It wasn't like we had to cross a border and trek through the desert. We just let our visas expire. simple as that.

[paul_fromatlanta]

7. I remeber some threats to leave is Bush won... but not over illegals.

[laheina]

37. I think that's what he's saying.

That the same people that have been upset over illegals better not be the same people that have said that they wanted to leave post election or afterward.

At least that's what I got out of it. :shrug:

[lonestarnot]

8. I'm not going any damn place! My wedding anniversary was the 4th of July

and the AC went out that day. Heat is relative until you are in it. NEVER SURRENDER!

[sam sarrha]

10. yea I'm sneaking into Mexico to get a job selling stale candy on the bridge

are you F'n nuts, they dont feed you in jail there..!

[stillcool]

13. I had a conversation with someone...

who has an aversion to 'spanish-speaking-illegal-immigrants'. The veracity of the venom, and the absoluteness of derogatory statements towards a pretty good chunk of the universe floored me. This person is a mother, and a grandmother. I left her, with the thought that this country no longer manufactures anything, is totally bankrupt, and has a history of inflicting hell on much of the earth...and that I hoped her family, should they seek a future for themselves elsewhere, experience the same human kindness she exhibits so acutely. Mirrors are everywhere.

[laheina]

38. I had a similar experience with a coworker once.

She was so angry that she didn't even see her own illogic. It was pretty sad.

[Lars39]

14. I've often wondered

how anti-immigration views will change, once a good chunk of US population is slipping into Canada for jobs. :evilfrown:

[Renew Deal]

15. I'm offended.

I'm not sure about what yet, but I take offense. :argh:

[immoderate]

16. Can't someone be a citizen of the world?

These political boundaries weren't always here. And they too shall pass.

--IMM

[Toucano]

18. Nope, that's not allowed.

"You're either with us or against us."

Even people who hate Bush seem to have adopted his attitude.

[RagingInMiami]

20. I'm beginning to develop that attitude as we speak

[Toucano]

21. No, you had it at 12:33 AM when you made this asinine thread. n/t

[RagingInMiami]

23. And you just reminded me why I had that attitude

[LSK]

24. now what fun would that be??

Its more fun to loose your mind to nationalism and wave flags and guard some invisible fictional border and judge people by whatever paperwork they have. :sarcasm:

[saracat]

22. I support "legal" immigration. I am opposed to "illegal immigration

I have considered moving out of the nation.But not because of immigration! I really resent you telling me to renounce my citizenship if I don't support "illegal immigration". My grandmother was a "legal" immigrant. Legal immigrants made this country great. We are all fundamentally a melting pot of immigrants but we are all Americans and I resent your equating non support of illegal immigrant ion with anti immigration!

[tkmorris]

27. No one threatened to illegally emigrate

Not one person. Not one post. I did see one post where someone was considering retiring elsewhere, but I didn't see any sign that they intended to do so illegally. So no, your argument and your hostility have no basis.

By thw way it is quite simple to take up residence legally in Costa Rica, which is the destination I see most often mentioned by people who think of emigrating. If you like I can provide some details.

[RagingInMiami]

28. Nobody admits to doing it "illegally"

But I wonder, is that simple to just set up residence in another country "legally".

[tkmorris]

29. What that poster was thinking of doing, yes it is that easy

Especially if it is to retire, at least in the case of Costa Rica. All that is needed is to prove that you have a pension or other retirement type income of $600 US, or dividend or other investment type income of $1000, per month. Of course if you don't have an income stream of that sort you can also emigrate there but it requires depositing a large sum in a Costa Rican bank. $50000 last time I peeked I believe.

The purpose of course is to prove that you will not be indigent, beyond that they really don't care. FWIW Canada does this in a similar fashion, though they have a more complex formula they use to determine eligibility. The basic principle is the same however; you are welcome if you can prove that you will not be a drain on the society there.

Oh and btw Costa Rica is absolutely beautiful. Earlier I found this home for sale there http://www.american-european.net/properties/index.php?action=listingview&listingID=642 I actually found several superior to that one but I happened to have that listing open so I'll use it as an example.

[RagingInMiami]

30. My post was not even directed specifically towards that poster

I don't even know who it is. I knew there was such discussion because I was reading the other threads referring to it.

My post was directed at ... oh, fuck it. Forget about it.

[laheina]

39. So basically, you are saying what we all already knew.

That people with money are welcome just about anywhere. People that have to work for a living are not welcome.

And there is a huge difference between having to work and being "indigent."

[tkmorris]

46. That's true in a sense

But please understand, I am not saying that this state of affairs is as it SHOULD be, merely pointing out that what the OP was complaining about isn't true at all.

Furthermore, both Canada and Costa Rica have policies which allow immigration based solely upon profession, education, and job offers perhaps already in place. These entry possibilities are complicated to detail fully however so I did not do so in my post. For the record I am NOT one of those who could enter either country through the "deposit a large sum of money in an account" method.

Your ire is misdirected.

[SoCalDem]

33. lots of retirees do it.. There's a process to follow

and if you follow it, and have the money to go, the recieving country usually has no problems welcoming "well-to-do Americans" or Europeans ..

Most countries have an ex-pat community..always have..always will..

[pitohui]

34. in central america it is

it really is, you'd be amazed, at least for costa rica, panama, nicaragua, and belize it's really easy if you have any amount of funds -- and i mean really mean any amount, think $100K (well not for costa rica but the others) as opposed to two million you need to retire in the usa which most of us could never earn legally!

btw i would love to visit colombia one day and i promise i won't stay there, i'm a louisiana girl :-) a friend told me they had good birds tho

[TahitiNut]

31. Well, I suppose one could get concerned when it's 1/6th of our citizens.

It's funny you posted this, since I was wondering something similar. I was wondering how many folks who were castigating an American citizen for entertaining the idea of emigrating (in whatever way) were also supporting the idea that 1/6th of Mexico's citizens live in the US. After all, doesn't the "change it from within" precept apply no matter which way people are crossing borders?

I try to guide myself by Kant's Categorical Imperative. (Yes, I subscribe to deontological ethical principles.) There're several countries that look good to me, but their immigration laws are prohibitive. I just can't see myself making my first act one of breaking the law in a country I respect enough to want to call "home."

FWIW, fewer than 1 million American citizens are expatriates. That's about 1/200th of us.

[pitohui]

32. all plan to do it legally

i know many usa ex-pats including some in my family, all do it legally, people who hang out on DU are going to be trending toward more conscientious to begin with don't you think?

retirees are not looking to take jobs from anyone, they are seeking peace

i was just on one of threads of which you speak and i think the lady is question is obviously going to bring a lot of income and respect to the country she chooses to move to

there is not really a lot of bullshit to move to many central american countries if you have a $8K a month retirement fund, most are looking for you to bring around $2K a month

so chill

no one here is looking to steal anything from you or yours

on the costa rica thread, hmmm, what day is it they wave the canadian flag? just my bad joke, since there are SO MANY canadian ex-pats in costa rica, i didn't know there were that many canadians in canada! :-)

[RagingInMiami]

35. Yes, of course, when it's the DU elite, it will surely be done by the book

(Don't you think you give us all here a little too much credit when you really no fucking clue who most of us are?)

Your post just reeks beginning to end.

"retirees are not looking to take jobs from anyone, they are seeking peace"

As if the mindset of the Mexican immigrant is to take a job from someone else. As if they're only content if they force someone else out of a job.

"i was just on one of threads of which you speak and i think the lady is question is obviously going to bring a lot of income and respect to the country she chooses to move to."

Insinuating that the Mexicans, of course, bring everything but "respect" to this country.

"no one here is looking to steal anything from you or yours"

Not like those thieving brown people!

[pitohui]

36. chill dude

we are never going to agree

i am in favor of protecting borders, in favor of tariffs, in favor of job protection programs because i'm from old school pro protectionist labor, we are blue collar here ya'll

doesn't mean i'm a david duke nazi

there are issues on which good people can disagree

[laheina]

40. Thank you for pointing out the ingrained

and institutionalized racism of those comments.

I don't understand how the poster can't see it.

[laheina]

43. Income, maybe. Respect, not necessarily.

"retirees are not looking to take jobs from anyone, they are seeking peace"

No, generally they are seeking to make their dollars go farther in order to have a higher standard of living. There isn't much difference from the people coming here, except that they are poor.

"on the costa rica thread, hmmm, what day is it they wave the canadian flag? just my bad joke, since there are SO MANY canadian ex-pats in costa rica, i didn't know there were that many canadians in canada! "

And if I can judge by my experiences in Central America, they segregate themselves into their own enclaves. They speak their own languages, and they would fly their own flag if they ever had the inclination. And yes, the joke was not only bad, but it was in poor taste as well.

[BooScout]

41. I did it the legal way....

And I am not one that has been ranting on about illegal immigration in the States. Primarily because that issue is a big fat smokescreen by Bushco. to divert attention from what a shitty job he is doing. I do support legal immigration in the US though and think it could be handled better by enforcing laws already on the books, primarily by going after those that hire illegal immigrants. I don't advocate making an immigrant residing in the States illegally a felon and imprisoning him or her. That is simply not economically feasible and just plain stupid.

Again, people making assumptions that are not in existence.

[laheina]

45. Thank you BooScout!!

And you are right. It is totally a smokescreen wedge issue. :hi:

[sandnsea]

42. Well, I mentioned my son leaving

But that's only if they DO build the fence cuz he wants to make sure he's on the other side of it. :evilgrin:

Honestly, if they bombed Iran and approved a fence, all bets are off for me. I don't know what the hell I'd do, so I kind of understand the current jitters.

[laheina]

44. I'd want to be on the other side of the fence too.

I love Central America, and I love my country.

I would go there if the need arose, and I have no problem with them coming here.

[Moderator]

47. locking....

This is flamebait.