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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:29 AM
Original message
My informal poll on why people are Republicans.
I am surrounded by Republicans where I live and work. I have started gently asking why people are so strongly Republican. Is it because of National Security - No. Is it because they agree with the war in Iraq - Not really - most don't seem to have a strong opinion of the war.

Why then are they such die-hard Republicans? Two reasons: Religion - and much more common - Welfare! Everyone I talk to about politics starts in with stories about "dead-beats" having "lots of children" because they get more money that way. They rage about housing assistance. They hate the welfare system, and they credit the Democrats with all "handouts". Once I asked "What do you think about Corporate Welfare" - they paused and went right back to the welfare mothers.

Many people in this country get assistance, from CEOs, to farmers, students, and the poor. But these people are obsessed with the assistance going to help the poor. I'm not sure if there is anyway to change their minds about this. I'm not talking about rich people either. Some of the people I hear this from could be considered "working poor". They are angry that they have to show up for a job everyday while the woman down the streets gets paid to have children.

Thoughts?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Amazing -
A belief in Christ and hating to help the poor. No wonder they're insane, it's impossible to reconcile the two.
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Good Point! In my experience - most Christians aren't very Christ-like.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
46. They're not practicing Christianity
They're practicing Americanized Paulanity, IMHO.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
47. Don't rule us all out....
we (my Sunday school class) were upset that our new pastor was a GOP, the thought was how can you be a Christian and NOT be a DEM. We hope he is 'teachable'.
Poverty is mentioned more than just about any other topic and if these 'Christian' placed their butts on a pew listening to the good book instead of in the recliner listening to FAUX-they would get the picture. We are to help the poor AND, God places an ADMONITION on the church to care for the widowed, esp widowed with children (read single parents) and orphans.
So what profile do I fit in. I go to Sunday School AND Church on average 3.5 times a month. I tithe 10% AND give over that at every chance (giving anonymously, esp to single Moms). I am by no means wealthy. I try to read the bible every day (my resolution this year-because I am so bad about this). I am certainly a Christian...but I don't fit in the mold of what is portrayed in the media as such.
And don't think I am a pansy push over either. I am just as tough as some of these RWCC (whom I consider misguided) at standing my ground. I don't mind flipping the money changers tables over or even dieing for what I believe in.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
74. That's been my experience, too.
I'm surrounded by Republicans and religion is their reason for everything. Their issues are abortion, homosexuality and welfare.

When I told him I was on disability, one old, hard right-winger told me that it was a "bed to lie on" and not to get too comfortable.

Comfortable? On $812 a month? Su-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-ure...I'll have what the eighty-year-old fart is smoking.

This guy is a "Christian" and an in-your-face shrub supporter. He told me he thinks shrub is too far to the left. He kept sending me right-wing e-mails. The only viruses I ever got through e-mail (which were, luckily, eliminated by my antivirus program) came from his computer. I told him, firmly, to get an antivirus program. After he managed to send viruses to everyone on his list, he fell for one of the hoax viruses and told people to delete a file in Windows\system. Luckily, it wasn't that important a file, but geez!!!! I told him to check the virus hoax page.

Is this the kind of guy who is typifies the gung-ho shrub-supporter? No wonder we're screwed!

I finally asked him to take me off his list because I was tired of the right-wing propaganda, real viruses and virus hoaxes he disseminated. Unfuckingbelievable.
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merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. It really is that stark: 99.9% consider themselves Christians -probably
in their minds even UBER Christians- and they completely miss the message of Christ

A complete disconnect that seems to be impossible to breach

I don't know the answer except to keep pointing out the disconnect to them and get them to acknowledge the disconnect exists
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. It's strange, isn't it?
But this is true. I live in a very red area, too, and these ARE the reasons people here cannot imagine ever voting for a Democrat. They have an image of Republicans as the party of religion, and it can't be shaken. It doesn't matter what they actually see the Republicans DO, it just doesn't stick because they have this image in their minds that can't be challenged.

And the welfare thing is there, too, but I see it as broader than that. There is a racist and xenophobic element (although most people would never admit to it), and a rage against everyone they see as not "pulling their weight". It is a deeply ingrained self interest and a "me first" attitude. And heaven knows, the Republican party is the party of "me first".
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
63. My in-laws are Republican...
and they can't stand the religious fundies. They feel like "their party" has been hijacked by the right-wing Christians, and do not want them to be representative of the Republican party. My FIL is non-religious and my MIL moderately religious. Both are socially liberal. Neither attends a church.

I also know two Republican atheists (via messageboards) who feel the same way.
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agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
69. They would sell themselves into serfdom,
for the lottery ticket of being an overseer.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. Welfare to those who are starving is a bad thing while the same
assholes support welfare to the corporations raping us at the gas pumps.
Welfare may be the reason they claim to be repukes but it is phony, the Religious side should instill in them the compassion to care for those who are less fortunate then they are. They hate welfare because they don't qualify or because they have been told welfare is why their taxes are high.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. Did you tell them that welfare accounts for 2% of our budget at best?
"Poor people" welfare, I mean.

You should also ask them if they ever took out a student loan or had any form of governmental assistance in their life, no matter how small.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. okay, well, a student loan is not a handout
but I do see the point you're trying to make. :hi:

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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. But it is assistance from the government.
I guess that's what I meant. :hi:
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. fair enough
point taken. :-)
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Blutodog Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Hatred & fear of the poor (failure)
In the repuke world poor (welfare) = BAD , criminal, drug addict, minorities, terrorist. It's a package deal to these folks. Corp. welfare on the other hand is ok because it's not viewed as welfare at all. Rich in the repuke world = GOOD, deserving of tax breaks, what I want to be someday etc. When all those POOR bastards in New Orleans were drowning my repuke friends were laughing and enjoying the view. The GOOD people with money drove out in their SUV's and the BAD people drowned it was that easy in their minds. They live in a black and white world and in such a world compassion has a very shrunken niche.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
40. Gosh, the "good" Germans of the 1930's got nothing on people like this
"When all those POOR bastards in New Orleans were drowning my repuke friends were laughing and enjoying the view. "

:puke:
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
64. Welcome to DU!
Good to have ya!:hi:
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
72. You must not be counting
medicaid in your figures. That's over 2 % of the budget by itself.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. I have always said they think they are being "Good" by association.
Meaning every time I talk to Repukes, they always bring up the fact that it is a conservative party blah blah blah. Maybe back in FDR's day the repukes were conservative, but today we all know they are anything but conservative. So what I get out of this type of statement is they think that joining this party is the "good/safe" side of things and therefore without any other knowledge they feel like it is the right thing to do. "Good by Association", even though anyone who has a conscious and reads up on facts turns out to be liberal because we know that being associated with their actions is NOT good. I always tell my repuke friends which there are plenty - "You all know that I know what I am talking about" (because I give them all of their news), "and you all think that I like being in the unpopular party because I like it?" "Then I say no it is not because I like it, it is because I am informed."

Hope this helps.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
71. yes
those who have drunk the kool-aid like to think the Repuglicon party is the party of fine, upstanding, morally superior individuals. The rightwing spin machine has sold this image very well but it is only an illusion. This sells though, because the public does not have access to the truth. Also the public desperately wants to believe that our society works and that 'good' people are in control. Maybe now they will start to see how false that association with the corporate thugs really is and how they have been exploited.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. "Dead beats" with"lots of children" are code words
for African Americans-at least they have been ever since I became politically aware. Reagan played on this with his fictional "welfare queen". These folks are closet racists, I think.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. "Closet racists?"
Hardly.

While most Rethug voters will talk a reasonable game about never prejudging a person based on skin color, put that to even the most minor test--like, say, Katrina video from New Orleans that featured mostly black folks in need--and most Rethug voters bare their teeth and go back to thinking of black folks as lazy-ass "n*ggers."

And the Republican aristocracy can ill afford to disabuse these voters of their racism; rather, they encourage it, while constantly seeking new "n*ggers" to hate, whether they're gays, Muslims, or just "far left radicals" like, oh, you or me.

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. I'll agree that they've come out of the closet
especially during this Administration. Bush has definately cultivated hate in this country, and it is especially chilling when you come face to face with it as my husband and I have (read anti-Muslim sentiment here).
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. When Reep voters talk about muslims, it's like all their pent-up anger
toward all brown-skinned folks comes gushing out, doesn't it?

I'll bet you've heard some varient on the Reep riff that Islam is based on violence while Christianity is based on love, right? I've got that one of late from a couple of especially idiotic cow orkers...

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #37
54. I've studied both the Bible and Qur'an
and guess what? The message is the same! Yep, Islam is really violent, seeing as every chapter in the Qur'an save one starts "In the name of God, Who is Mercy and Compassion"....

If these cows start mooing at you again, kindly let them know that the whole of the Qur'an is said to be found in the first chapter, the Fatiha. Here's a loose translation of it:

In the name of God, Who is Mercy and Compassion

All praise be to God, creator of the world

Most Beneficent and Merciful

Master of the Day of Judgement

Thee alone do we worship; from Thee alone do we ask for help

Lead us on the straight path

The path of those who follow Your Way

Not those who anger or who go astray.


Yep, really violent, don't you think? :)
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Oh, I've quoted similarly peaceful passages from the Q'uran
I usually get "But she's a WITCH!" or suchlike in reply.

Here's a decent online link I've used...

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/good/long.html

5:8 O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do.

5:32 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind.
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Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. I personally know very wealthy farmers who get paid not to grow....
....under government subsidies that are a republican pet project. One farmer I knew had a huge three story brick mansion and hundreds of acres doing nothing as he gets paid very handsomely by the government to do nothing and keep agriculture prices high. If the government is going to pay them, they could at least grow or produce cattle to give to poor families but that would make too much sense. It's farmers welfare, simple as that.

Also, there is corporate welfare. Big companies like Coke, Pepsi, McDonalds, etc. get hundreds of millions in tax payer money every year to advertise overseas and it's given to them by the government under the guise of "promoting American goods overseas". It's also a big republican pet project that you don't hear much about as if "60 Minutes" were to expose it, all the advertisers and more mentioned above would pull all their add revenue.

It's this simple in my opinion:

Democrats = Take tax payer money and try to help 10 million needy, American citizens.
Republicans = Take tax payer money and try to help only 10 wealthy, greedy CEO's.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. It boils down to feeling superior over somebody
They feel better beating up on somebody worse off than themselves. It is human nature to look down on someone for whatever reason. I like to think we progressives are better than that but I know I find myself disparaging people who vote Republican every day!

As to the issue of welfare, you might remind them that welfare as we knew it does not exist any more because of Bill Clinton's welfare reform. So women can't just have children to collect welfare anymore (did they ever really?). You might also respond, "So I guess you support family planning providers, like Planned Parenthood" and see what they have to say!
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. They're not being honest with you or themselves as to why
they're republican, IMO.

From what I see with so many garden variety republicans it's more of a social image thing. They will throw out particulars like religion or welfare, but the core reason is that they are trying to identify with what they see as the 'better half', so to speak. They really don't care about specific policies as long as there is a spun rationale that allows it to fit into their limited framework.

In college, I went through a very brief stint as a republican (I've been an independent most of my life). What struck me most about that period was the shallowness and dishonesty that seems to be the status quo of the group. These are people who will do and/or say just about anything to further their climb up the ladder. They don't care who gets abused along the way, seeing that as 'part of the game'.

They hold up things like honor and integrity as mere facades to hide the real motivations behind their actions.

This is not speculation, mind you. This was my first-hand experience at dealing with them on a socio-political level.

Just my two cents.
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
16. hatred of minorities and gays
that's the #1 trait I've noticed.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
17. Exactly my experience too.
"I want to keep my money" was one reply.
They have no clue whatsoever, and don't seem to be open to hearing the truth.
Visions of "welfare queens in Cadillacs" from the Reagan era dance in their heads.
They've been completely brain-washed.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. read 'whats the matter with Kansas"
Edited on Tue Jan-10-06 07:57 AM by rodeodance
oops, wrong title.
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. My Neo-con brother,
a supposedly intelligent and educated guy, suffers from this same obsession. He is not a practicing X-ian as far as I know, although he & I grew up in a faux-Xian home. He applauds the performance of his Halliburton shares and lambasts the parasitic poor in his New Year's wishes to me:

"Halliburton is still going up and I am happy.<...> I just wish my tax dollar would go not to the bleeding-heart, lazy, dependent parasite socialists in this country."

No way you're going to break through this mindset. I think we just have to write off the hardcore 35%. I've given up on my brother. SG
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
33. Halliburton = parasite central
Why are Halliburton shares going up?

Because of tax dollars going to no-bid contracts for keeping the oil flowing in Iraq. The Bush-Cheney corporate fascist regime started a war so they could line their own pockets. You cannot get more parasitic than that! American soldiers and Iraqi civilians are paying the price with their lives and their limbs. Your brother's shares are stained with their blood!

Your brother also mixes-up 2 stereotypes. I guess the "bleeding-heart socialists" are fair-minded folks who vote Democrat, while the "lazy, dependent parasites" are poor people in general. The stupidest part is that America is like the worst place to be poor in the whole of the western world.

The worst part about these right-wing Christians is that they would punish babies and small children for having poor parents. Stop giving money to single moms means stop giving food and clothing to poor kids. Nothing could be further away from the teachings of Jesus than that.

How do they interpret the Christmas story? Mary and Joseph were deadbeats so they could not afford to check into a hotel ...

I feel very sorry for you having such an a$$hole brother - who has nothing to offer you but insults (I guess you are included on his list of "bleeding-heart parasite socialists ...)

There is only one reason to be a Republican. That is, if you are a sociopath*

* person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviour.
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Yes, Apollo, sadly
I am included in his list of "parasite socialists". There was a lot of other choice rhetoric in his e-mail that I didn't dare quote, but here's one more particularly pathetic passage:
<...>"I am sure you will be hyper-critical of anyone who has more than you do. You will accuse them of stealing from you to obtain their wealth, leaving you in the pitiful condition I surmise you will be in unless the toothfairy helps you out."
I'm constantly astonished that we come from the same background! SG
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
45. Surya - I feel your pain!
With a brother like that, who needs enemies, right?

It's kind of a shame you cannot divorce your own brother.

Seems like you're kinda stuck with him for the rest of your life.

A big hug going out to you !! :)
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Thanks for the
warm thoughts, Apollo. Being the only politically sane one in my right-wing family, I've always felt like the odd one out! SG
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
20. Just about every single "justification" for being conservative
stems from either an exxageration that went to far or an outright lie.

"I'm conservative because I hate those welfare mothers" - Based on a very elaborate lie told by Reagan and long since debunked

"I'm a conservative because of how liberal traitors like Jane Fonda betrayed America" - Most of the stories around this are lies that are of unknown origin but are prepetuated (and constantly debunked) in email forwards.

"I'm conservative because I believe in smaller government and fiscal responsibility" - Then why'd you vote for Bush?

"I'm conservative because I am pro-life" - In what way is killing people in an unnecessary war based on manipulated intelligence "pro life"? And, even strictly speaking from a pro-choice vs. anti-choice standpoint, what have republicans ever actually done for the anti-choice crowd?

"I am conservative because I am a Christian who believes in traditional values" - Like Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson? They believe in traditional values.

"I am a conservative because I believe in accountability and personal responsibility" - You mean, like a President who refuses to step into action after a devistating hurricane because "It's not my job or my problem"?



Every single reason that I have ever heard anyone give for being conservative or a Republican is usually just a lie that they tell to comfort themselves and make themselves feel morally superior.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. here is a link
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. "how conservatism, once a marker of class privilege, became ....."


...One of "our most insightful social observers" (Los Angeles Times) cracks the great political mystery of our time: how conservatism, once a marker of class privilege, became the creed of millions of ordinary Americans.

With his acclaimed wit and acuity, Thomas Frank turns his eye on what he calls the "thirty-year backlash" -- the populist revolt against a supposedly liberal establishment. The high point of that backlash is the Republican Party's success in building the most unnatural of alliances: between blue-collar Midwesterners and Wall Street business interests, workers and bosses, populists and right-wingers.

In asking "what's the matter with Kansas?" -- how a place famous for its radicalism became one of the most conservative states in the union -- Frank, a native Kansan and onetime Republican, seeks to answer some broader American riddles: Why do so many of us vote against our economic interests? Where's the outrage at corporate manipulators? And whatever happened to middle-American progressivism? The questions are urgent as well as provocative. Frank answers them by examining pop conservatism -- the bestsellers, the radio talk shows, the vicious political combat -- and showing how our long culture wars have left us with an electorate far more concerned with their leaders' "values" and down-home qualities than with their stands on hard questions of policy.

A brilliant analysis -- and funny to boot -- What's the Matter with Kansas? presents a critical assessment of who we are, while telling a remarkable story of how a group of frat boys, lawyers, and CEOs came to convince a nation that they spoke on behalf of the People.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Have it, read it, love it!
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
22. The "welfare queen" was a myth started by Reagan
they never were able to find a woman drawing welfare whilst driving a luxury car.

But it sure made a great, if totally Faux, image for the Repigs to latch onto . . . and the SCLM let them get away with it . . .
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LincolnMcGrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Yep
They got no problem with farmers paid NOT to grow crops

They got no problem with Walmart getting billions in welfare

They got no problem with unearned income getting a tax break over earned salary.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. And they never let it go, either
I still hear people bitch about it.

I always tell them, "If people on welfare got it so great, why are you working, like a sucker?"
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. Suggest to them that, if welfare is such a wondrous thing,
why don't they quit their jobs and try living off it?
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KarenS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
25. I think alot of folks just don't want to have to spend time
thinking, researching the issues,,,,, they go with those catchy phrases that sound good.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. They are just nasty, unhappy people.
Money and material wealth rules their existence and any who refuse to participate in that game are morally inferior. They like someone else doing their thinking for them and telling them what to do, all the while telling them how independent they are.
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
30. Just Tell Them...
that if wages were higher, a lot of people wouldn't *be* on welfare. Being on welfare is demeaning. I think a lot of people would get off it if they could. I think the "lazy" thing is mostly a myth.

Tammy
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
32. I don't think you can reason away envy.
Some people just seem predisposed to it. It's what keeps them going in some weird way.

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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
35. in my red state welfare=black
Now when I want to toy with republicans I tell them America has more white people on welfare then black. They don't ever believe it either. When I hear that response I know they vote the way they do because they are racist.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
65. Hey...
where does one find such info (the blonde asks stupidly)? Thanks...would LOVE to use this in an argument!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
38. "Unchristian"
That's the only word you can use to describe that viewpoint.

Actually, it's just plain old ugly American racism. These assholes have no fucking clue in the world that the average welfare mom is a white, divorced mother of two who remains on the rolls for less than two years. To them, all their hard earned money is being picked out of their pockets and given to fat black women who pop out another baby every year and there's nothing you can do to change their opinion. It's been too forcefully dinned into them for too many years by soft, fat, pink men who hate welfare because they have abandonment issues of their own.

Only by using the word "unchristian" can you manage to make them stop in their tracks for more than a heartbeat while you remind him that for every dollar that goes to feed a poor woman's kids, fifty dollars are going into the pocket of some fat CEO who is threatening to send his job overseas next year.

I'm afraid that in the short term, most of these bigots are just unreachable, no matter what we try. They have been given full permission to hate poor black women, and they're gonna do a great job of it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. Here in East TN, some of the whites on welfare are rabid Republicans
I don't get that.

One of the white high school seniors in the county next to ours wanted "to draw" as a carrer goal. Turns out he wanted "to draw" a monthly check, like his Dad and his uncle.

What a goal!

But, he's very strong R-W Republican and says it's because of guns.

Interestingly, he's also very racist.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
41. Sounds about right...
...My experience is that most GOPers exhibit combinations of the following characteristics when pressed about their political affiliations: willful ignorance, religious conservatism, racism, elitism, nationalism, xenophobia and selfishness.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
42. Hate radio devotees
they believe the lies that spew from hate radio 24/7. They're bone ignorant.
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
43. The Repuke minds are still in high school.
They want to be in the "popular" crowd with the head cheerleader and the captain of the football team. :eyes:
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
44. It's all about taxes
From what I've gathered talking to republicans, it's mostly about taxes. Their simplistic take on the subject is republicans lower 'em, democrats raise 'em. Of course what they fail to see is that those statements are only true concerning the very rich.

My right-wing brother-in-law actually told me that cutting the capital gains tax was good for all income classes. His rationale was that it would benefit anyone with a 401K. I had to explain to him that the working poor don't really have 401K's. You don't really get those being a supermarket cashier, a cook, a janitor, etc. Hell, you don't get one being a small business owner either.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
48. Hating Welfare Recipients Is the New Racism
It's not socially acceptable to hate people based on their race, so they've found a socially acceptable way of hating people because they're on welfare.

Whenever you hear this sort of irrational thinking, rest assured that it's race based.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
51. Reason #2 goes back to Reason #1
Too many people are taught in church that God blesses those who have faith/work hard and punishes those who don't follow His word. Therefore, it follows that poor people are in such a state because of something they did or didn't do. They brought it upon themselves.

It's a direct result of the fact that the U.S. was colonized by the religiously insane kicked out of Europe for being so crazy.
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
52. So in a nutshell: racism, greed, religion (another form of racism.)
They may dress it up as "welfare mothers" (we all know what Reagan really meant by 'welfare queen').
But in the end it all comes down to RACISM. You can wrap all in the cloth of racism (religion, greed, miltarism, etc.) All mean the same thing.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
53. Is it welfare mothers, or BLACK welfare mothers? just wondering nt
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. I assumed they were talking about white and black people on welfare.
I'm new to Indianapolis, and the smaller town where I came from was mostly white and had quite a few "welfare mothers". There was a woman there going nuts about welfare and she was dating a black man. I think these people may be racist, but they hate white's on welfare too. I agree with other people here who say voting Republican makes these people feel rich by association. I also suspect they are "nice" church-going types and this is one way to express their repressed anger?????? I also agree their minds probably can't be changed. I'd like to leave - but I'm stuck!!
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
56. I agree with those as the top 2 reasons, especially assistance to poor.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
57. It's all devils and dust
"You get a god filled soul, fill it with devils and dust. Fear is a powerful thing it can turn your heart black into dust," Bruce Springsteen
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
58. Ignorance
avarice, intolerance and apathy.

The four horsemen of the Republicans.

If I were surrounded by Republicans like you are- I'd be making my plans to get away from there as fast as I could.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
59. Most people on assistance are children. Fuck em I guess.
I hear the same thing too...Welfare, welfare, welfare. It's amazing. They are OBSESSED with people who get hand outs. Obsessed I tell ya.

I tell them that only 2% are on assistance and the majority of them are children. After they pick their jaws up off the floor, about 1/4 of them are shocked, 1/4 is oddly resentful of me for laying some knowledge on them, and the other half thinks I'm full of shit even when ya show them evidence.

The DNC needs to run adds about the "myths" Hammer it home...
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
61. I think most republicans are just bandwagoners.
Just like when popular sports teams win championships. Notice the insane amount of Red Sox fans there are since they won in 2004?

Ask them and I bet most will say "Hey, I've been a Republican since 9/11!".

Or "I've been a Republican since Rush Limbaugh appeared on the scene!".

:eyes:
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PWRinNY Donating Member (456 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
62. Taxes
Personally, I've never met a republican who hasn't whined and moaned about paying taxes. IMO that is the single biggest reason why anyone registers as a republican.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
66. Once again.....
I will post this link. It's a study of what makes Conservatives tick, and very good.


http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
67. I work with some poor people, and some people on welfare, and
some people in public housing.

Suffice it to say that any sane person would rather go work at a job someplace than to be on welfare.

I've seen it beat and grind grown men and women, teens and children, down into the ground emotionally and spiritually.

Every day I'm happy that I can help someone who has no food to eat, because my fridge and my cabinets are full. I'm glad that I can pay for someone else to have a house because I have a nice one. I'm thrilled that I can help give someone money for heat because my house is warm.

There but for the grace of God go I.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
68. welfare and poor minority people taking part of their pie. They're greedy
That's the most common reason followed by God, guns and gays.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
70. Republicans Directly Appeal To The Reptilian Brain. Those Responding
have no idea they are being manipulated.

It's a matter of SECURITY.

Those who feel connected to fellow humans and see the world as benevolent are Democrats.

Those who feel disconnected to fellow humans and see the world as malevolent are Republicans.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
73. Fear, I used to be a repukelican
and I was scared of everything. I was afraid of change, of crime, of communism (this was back in the 70s). It was changing world and I was scared of all that change and not being able to adjust and accept it.
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