Bush-supporting minister warns: "The church has buried a million critics."

[BurtWorm]

Christian Right Mobilizes For Judge
Conservative Tilt Sought on Bench

By Thomas B. Edsall
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, January 9, 2006; Page A10

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/08/AR2006010801069.html?nav=rss_print/asection

By far the most rousing speech -- more sermon than speech -- was given by Greater Baptist's pastor, the Rev. Herbert H. Lusk II.

Citing the harsh criticism he has faced from liberals and other black leaders, Lusk said: "I've been called a sellout. I've been called an Uncle Tom, and the New York Times called me a maverick in the black church." Lusk said he welcomed being called a maverick if it means supporting "the original intent of God Almighty" in opposition to abortion and the "redefinition of marriage. . . . Brothers and sisters, we will not go down without a fight."

Lusk warned adversaries: "My friends, don't fool with the church because the church has buried a million critics. And those the church has not buried, the church has made funeral arrangement for."

Lusk, a Bush supporter whose organization has received more than $1 million in federal grants under the administration's Faith Based Initiative, said, "From all I believe, this is the right thing to do," referring to his central role in "Justice Sunday III." "I believe this is what Jesus would have me do."

[Ellen Forradalom]

1. The church has buried millions of adherents, too.

What exactly is the difference? They're all dead.

[Loonman]

2. Well isn't that special....

You apostate motherfucker.

[roguevalley]

20. ha ha ha! I love your comment. :)

[Cha]

53. Yeah, I love

it, too..made me LOL!

[DS1]

3. Doesn't the church bury just about EVERYONE?

Save for those people left to rot in a combat zone.

[AlCzervik]

4. first off thats a threat and needs to be looked into right now

plus maybe the church grounds need to be dug up and second, time to pull that tax exempt status.

[patcox2]

24. Not its not, it means "outlived." Like when Kruschev said it.

Kruschev said to Nixon "we will bury you" and everyone got their panties in a wad thinking its a threat, but its a folk saying that means "outlive." Thats all.

[Bluerthanblue]

27. not sure your analogy is

really completely true- I believe there WAS that kind of animosity between the US and Russia-
and even if it was "talk" or "euphemism", Khrushchev said this in the 'future' tense-

This message though, is stated as 'past tense'- as if the "Church" had truly succeeded in annihilating any of its critics- If they have, why do they need to continue to 'fight'???- You can bury a person- you can't bury a movement- or a deeply rooted conviction that what is being done 'in the name of religion' using intimidation, violence and threats will ever be left un-challenged.

[Occulus]

31. As a gay man, I take it as a fucking death threat.

Stop apologizing for this shit! He knew exactly what he meant.

It was a threat. Were anyone at all to say such, to me, in the same breath as a condemnation of abortion or gay marriage (code for homosexuals in general), I'd feel the same way.

On edit: that "buried millions of critics" was a direct reference to the Crusades, I believe.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. But what about the next sentence?

"And those the church has not buried, the church has made funeral arrangement for." That sounds like they're hoping for people to die.

[grytpype]

5. Jesus, save me from your followers!

[bullimiami]

6. the evil church has buried many, jews, pagans, muslims, witches, heretics

infidels.

buried in greed and buried in lust for power, buried in hate and buried in lies.

he is bragging about being anti-christian.

[Occulus]

54. AND homosexuals and blacks and natives of many lands

I'm starting to see christianity (sic) in general as a threat.

[Loonman]

7. $1 million in federal grants!!!!!

WTF!!!

I'm not working so this godammned motherfucker can spout hate.

[roguevalley]

21. It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a

rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven. Or as Plato said it so well: "An extremely good man cannot also be an extremely rich one."

[Lars39]

8. Threats from the pulpit now.

This "church" needs to lose its tax-exempt status.

[havocmom]

18. Yep. If advocating peace get the IRS on a preacher's case, threats

to critics certainly should.

[fasttense]

9. In this faith based initiative, bush has found a way to give tax dollars

to republican political parties. Why is Lusk taking so much of our tax dollars? Is it a pay off? Lusk is just like Delay and Abramoff, using the cloak of religion while lining his pockets and ensuring those who pay him stay in power.

[ixion]

10. doing what 'the church' does best.. spreading hatred, making threats

and thinking with their little reptile brains.

[Arugula Latte]

11. Shhh! We're not supposed to say anything negative about church folk!

According to many on DU, we're INTOLERANT of religion and Christians! Shhhh! Don't offend! This man is RELIGIOUS and we have to respect that! :eyes:

[MindPilot]

16. Goddamn right I'm intolerant of religion and christians

this is but one example of how their silly beliefs are the antithesis of democracy.

[Boojatta]

12. "don't fool with the church ... the church has buried a million critics"

Galileo was put under house arrest. So let's not accuse churches of simply killing and burying their critics.

If the pastor's remarks were translated from Russian, then the pastor might have simply meant that the church will survive longer than the institutions that criticize it.

[JohnyCanuck]

22. Too bad for Giordano Bruno he wasn't offered the option of house arrest

GIORDANO BRUNO
BURNT FOR HERESY

<snip>

In 1583 he moved to London giving lectures on the Copernican theory of the movement of the earth but the reception he received was hostile. He moved back to France but continued on to Germany when he found the religious position had changed.

He was to return to Italy when offered the Chair of Mathematics at Padua by the Venetian patrician, Giovanni Mocenigo.

In autumn of 1592 Mocenigo denounced him to the inquisition for his heretical theories. Arrested he was transferred to Rome in 1593 where he remained imprisoned for seven years.

Bruno argued that his ideas were not theological but philosophical. The Church did not accept this. He was twice given 40 days to recant. After a long trial Pope Clement VIII ordered Bruno to be sentenced as an impenitent and pertinacious heretic.

He was burned at the stake on 17th February 1600.

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/bruno.htm

[Boojatta]

28. "Too bad for Giordano Bruno"-- I agree! That's a good name to remember &

it's good that we have some biographical information to go with the name. I hope this discussion remains classified under tragedy, not under statistics.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Bruno is one of my heroes.

And several centuries ahead of his time in several ideas, including the concept that the stars were suns like our own, and had worlds orbiting them as ours does.

Or this:

There is no absolute up or down, as Aristotle taught; no absolute position in space; but the position of a body is relative to that of other bodies. Everywhere there is incessant relative change in position throughout the universe, and the observer is always at the centre of things.

And, as they did with so many others, the Church (that bastion of openmindedness and friend of free thought whose ideas we are constantly being hectored -even by some here- to give special preference to in the realms of science) brutally murdered him for daring to ask questions and speak the truth.

Worth keeping in mind when the nabobs among us toss out their perennial "shut up, you atheists- for everyone's good!" gibberish.

So how about someone make a movie about the passion of Giordano Bruno?

[bigtree]

13. A church is disaffected when it is persecuted,

A church is disaffected when it is persecuted, quiet when it is tolerated, and actively loyal when it is favoured and cherished.

-Thomas Babington Macaulay

[tanyev]

14. He probably thinks the Inquisition was justified, too.

It just got a bad rap from the "liberal media."

[Bill McBlueState]

56. eh

He probably doesn't know what the Inquisition is.

[MindPilot]

15. And one day the critics will relataliate....

Death before theocracy.

Or as Diderot said "Man will only be free when the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

[sinkingfeeling]

17. He's just being modest. It surely must be more like a billion!

[obreaslan]

19. Hey, I think we found our modern Torquemada!

For the American Inquisition that is surely coming. I'm sure he would accept the job. Why do you think they are trying so hard to legalize torture.

Nobody expects the American Inquisition!!!!



Apologies to Monty Python.

[MrMonk]

36. You need to apologize to whomever was in the center of that picture.

Pasting that face over his! The very thought.

[obreaslan]

48. :-) Terry Jones I believe...

But my general apologies to Monty Python should suffice.

BTW: I can't claim credit for the picture, I just found it via Google. :)

[Skidmore]

23. Some enterprising young reporter should ask him if that was a

threat?

[Bluerthanblue]

25. there are many critics 'the church' has refused to bury- and

that doesn't make them any less dead-
If the intent of this mans comment is to intimidate people who disagree with him, saying that the attitude he represents (he mistakenly calls it 'the church') still exists, and that certian individuals who spoke out against this attitude who have died, both people 'of faith' and 'secular' people, and the "church" pretends they 'didn't exist'- But denying their existance, doesn't nullify thier lives- or silence their voices, voices that sometimes speak LOUDER from the grave.

His remarks are just a bunch of empty words- words uttered out of 'fear'-

And 'false bravado'-

Because criticizim of the attitudes he espouses, continues, and WILL continue- as long as mankind exists. And mr.Lusk will someday be lowered into the grave- just like every one else- If he's saying that 'the church'-(the ATTITUDES of INTOLERANCE and HATE) has CAUSED the death of millions- then i pity him- he has nothing to feel proud of-
And while the individual critics may have been murdered- there are countless others of us, ready to step into their shoes, and die for what we know is right-

like Gandhi, MLKjr, Bobby Kennedy and millions of other less notable brave, committed individuals who will not be silenced, intimidated, co-erced or bullied into giving up what we know to be JUST and TRUE, despite the cost-

You may kill a body- but you cannot extinguish peoples devotion to a cause that will never cease until justice and equality for EVERYONE is achieved- and that won't come about by intimidation and force, but through education, action, and by people demonstrating that there IS a better way- not one led by fear, power, or bullying- but one chosen by FREE people who decide that equality and opportunity for everyone, is the only lasting and real solution to the problem- When we allow others to hunger, live in want, need, oppression, and fear, we are always going to reap that ourselves.

I pity you mr. Lusk- and the establishment you have been suckered into supporting.

[Tsiyu]

26. So now Jesus is like a gang leader?

The Crips, the Bloods and the Apostolic Disciples?

And no one in the church has died? None of their members have been buried, only their critics?

That's some badass gang. Wonder where they buy their weapons :wtf:

[Raster]

29. Brother Lusk, you know and I know you have been bought and paid for.

Your thirty pieces of silver has been paid by the bush* pharisees. Instead of attacking abortion, deal with the need for abortion. Use your ministry to to help reduce unwanted pregnancy. By attacking the right of a woman to chose, you place yourself and your beliefs above hers. You take away her voice.

Instead of lashing out against homosexuals or others you perceive to threaten heterosexual marriage, attack the causes of failed heterosexual marriages. You don't strengthen marriage by removing it from others. Don't blame the gays for the failing sanctity of heterosexual marriage. Blame your hypocritical selves.

"I believe this is what Jesus would have me do." I find that very hard to believe. Jesus was a man of the poor, the downtrodden. "Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone," not "...the church has buried a million critics."

And finally Brother Lusk, your father was Herbert H. Lusk, Sr. You are Herbert H. Lusk, Jr. Your son, if so named, will be Herbert H. Lusk, III. Only a pretender and poseur would attempt the "II" moniker.

[jmowreader]

35. The worst poseur I ever met

One of my company commanders called himself something like Joseph J. Jones, Sr.

He had neither married nor fathered children.

[Raster]

37. that's pretty bad. talk about self esteem issues.

[jmowreader]

50. There were double doors on company headquarters for a reason

The guy thought VERY highly of himself...

[bobbieinok]

30. has IRS investigted tax-exempt status of his church??

there was a story about IRS investigating churches on NPR a while ago......the lead story was an anti-war sermon

I kept wanting to know where the pro-war investigations were

[DanCa]

32. And Ill ask again why dont we picket these pricks

we have seventy thousand members on DU we should be able to do something.

[leesa]

38. I don't think Jesus would have anything to do with you asshole.

[CornField]

39. Thanks for posting this, Burt

It goes directly to some research I'm working on. Good stuff.

[BurtWorm]

40. You're welcome, CornField.

Whatcha working on?

[CornField]

44. Faith-based monies & Political activism

I'm attempting to collect data on which religious groups were provided faith-based funds and exactly how much. Not an easy task because the faith-based monies are distributed through departments and then specific agencies within the government. For instance, HUD, DoD, FEMA and many other agencies have distributed money and there doesn't seem to be any clear answer as to how much and to whom it went -- not even from the office of faith-based initiatives which reports a figure which is completely different than the department figures which is also completely different from the White House figures.

Finally, I'm trying to plot the differences between political activism of the religious groups pre- and post-funding. That is, did the reception of taxpayer funds cause a group to become more politically active, less politically active or stay about the same. This is difficult because, believe it or not, many religious groups don't wish to share such information with me. LOL!

[BurtWorm]

45. That sounds like a thesis!

I'm glad someone is looking into that. I'd be very interested to learn what you find out. I think a lot of people would. :toast:

[CornField]

46. It feels like one too.

;)

The worst of following the faith-based money trail is the "formula grant programs." Those, according to the FBCI office, account for more than $50 billion in funds annually. They are awarded to state and local governments, who then disperse them as they see fit to faith-based groups in their locations. Once you do track down how much went to a state, you need to deal with the state office in charge of the funds to find out where the money was disbursed. Often you have a list of groups/names which doesn't really make much sense until you do more research to discover that the Circle Eagle Correspondence Experts were founded in Appletown where a large group of layed off workers needed to acquire their GEDs. Circle Eagle then can be tracked back to the local First Papa Church.

To compound the problem, many of the faith-based groups have applied in numerous areas for the same program. For instance, a women and children's shelter run by the Catholic Church might apply to the formula grants, HUD and FEMA... and get monies from each, based on a specific program within their organization.

I've said this before, but it is just so true: If I wanted to set up a program were I could successfully launder billions upon billions of dollars, I'd model it after FBCI.

[proud patriot]

41. sounds more like a threat

x(

[FreedomAngel82]

42. What about the IRS?

Sure, they can get a minister for preaching against war but they can't get this guy for making political threats.

[BurtWorm]

43. Not when the resident is standing next to him when he makes it.

:eyes:

[Zenlitened]

47. This guy is the very picture of the sickness that infects America today.

Cowardice and arrogance, ignorance aggression, god-bessotted sanctimony -- he's got it all.

Disgusting. He doesn't like being called an Uncle Tom. Okay... how about "whore"?

It's time to pull these so-called churches down brick by brick.

:puke:

[Toots]

49. In the name of Jesus I want your child's testicles crushed

Crushed I tell you Jesus would have it no other way.....

[Just Me]

51. Bizarre. On a bizzilion levels, what he says is true.

Just,...it's true on so many human levels outside his shallow and boxed-in perspective.

It's sad to witness such things.

[Cha]

52. YEah, we know, asshole, that you

believe in killing in the name of Jesus Christ..so don't whine to me about abortion when that's between a woman and her doctor and her partner if he's around.

The republican party says they want to butt in and go back to the 70's and outlaw a woman's right to choose and YET they won't take care of a child after he/she is born ..so get off your hypocritical horse and quit braying about "burying critics"!

[journalist3072]

55. This whole issue of blind trust is what is really getting to me

Immediately when I heard about Lusk, I thought about the whole issue of blind trust/blind loyalty.

Lusk admitted that he doesn't even know if Samuel Alito is qualified to be on the SC. He doesn't know anything about him. He just allowed his church to be used as the rally site, b/c he says Idiot Son is his friend, and his "friend" made a promise to him about the type of people he would appoint.

Lusk doesn't even bother to educate himself about Alito's record before supporting him.

It just goes to show you that overall, Republicans don't know anything about critical thinking, research, or educating yourself.

I think they are more than happy to be ignorant of the facts and the reality around them.

I talked about this on my blog last night:

http://progressiveminds.bloghi.com/2006/01/11/minister-doesn-t-know-if-alito-s-qualified-but-supports-him-anyway.html