Is the caliber of our military steadily declining under Bush?

[undeterred]

I know two people who build the huge diesel engines used by navy ships and submarines. Working on these engines is highly skilled labor and is not learned in the course of a few months. Over the last five years the number of calls they have received from the coast guard and navy ships has skyrocketed. The navy no longer has a specialized training program for this- people just learn by doing or hopefully from more experienced people. If an engine isn't working and no one can fix it, the manufacturer actually has to go on board the vessel to work on it and train the staff.

The two people are Republicans with military backgrounds and they are appalled by what they see as a real decline in quality.

[MadMaddie]

1. If these Repuglicans are seeing this.....and admitting it

then our military is in real trouble....

The question is are these Republicans ready to vote Dem in November?

[undeterred]

5. I don't know but it would take a lot to make them ashamed

of the military- and this has made them ashamed. They know first hand that the notion that Republicans are good for the security of our country is utterly false, because they see the mismanagement every day, and they've been in this line of work for 20 years or more.

[leftofthedial]

2. it's in far worse shape than when he seized power

[Canuckistanian]

3. Not to mention the shortage of lower-rank officers

Or the rapidly declining recruitment numbers. Or the shortage of basic equipment. Or the outsourcing of military jobs with private firms. Or the.....

[maxsolomon]

4. if you cut in half you could raise the quality

and lower the cost.

but then we couldn't swagger around freeing people right & left.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. When Clinton left office I remember people griping...

about how he used up almost all of our cruise missles.

There can't be many left now. Plus we must be running awful low on humvees, ammunition, smart bombs, foriegn support, not to mention having lost 2500 of our best and brightest.

[jwirr]

9. I think I read that National Guard Units take their own

equipment and then leave it there when they come home. I know that much of their equipment is old but when they come home it has to be replaced. I doubt that *ss is doing that.

[Sweet Pea]

7. Nothing strange

The military has been cutting back on occupation specialties for a number of years now, preferring to utilize civilian contractors and technical rep teams to perform any number of repairs/maintenance. The US Navy command ship in the Med, USS Mount Whitney, is half-crewed my civilian mariners.

BTW, I am a reserve officer and and still up on many of the fleet things that are going on.

[undeterred]

8. I guess I am getting the manufacturer's perspective

These men learned their occupation in the navy, then went to work for the manufacturer of the engines. That's the career path they expect to see. I haven't heard them mention civilian contractors though, just undertrained military.

[Daphne08]

10. There are jobs that just should NOT be outsourced, no matter

the cost (and I'm not a fan of all this "outsourcing-insourcing" crap anyway).

It is just plain dangerous to fiddle around with our military defense by trying to save a little money.

Just my opinion.

[MadMaddie]

18. Ding..Ding...you get the prize....

Tell me what other country does this? I just can't imagine China doing this or even Russia....

[kevinbgoode]

11. I'll ask the Boy Scouts. . .

they are all we have left here to defend the Homeland.

[Hardrada]

12. Where are they getting their current people from? Pray tell?

[undeterred]

13. I have no idea.

People used to be promised that they would learn a specialized skill in the military- a poor man's college. If that is no longer the case, what appeal is there for anyone to join?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. When folks are unemployed and/or working minimum wage...

...the offer of very good pay and incentives starts to look pretty good. Even the $250,000 insurance policy allows the new recruit to believe that if he gets killed his family will be taken care of.

Even someone dead set against the war but facing poor job prospects may be willing to hold their nose and enlist.

Officers are going on active duty from the service academies and ROTC programs...they owe a certain number of years in return for their education.

[undeterred]

16. so much for "be all that you can be"

I guess its the Repub idea of helping out the poor.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

14. Yes....trained officers and enlisted personnel are getting out....

...as soon as they can. The multiple tours to the Middle East have taken a real toll aside from the dead, wounded, and future PTSD cases.

Our weaknesses have also been exposed for all to see...lack of armor on personnel carriers and humvees, and lack of personal armor for the troops. Our top-of-the-line tank has also proven vulnerable to anti-tank rockets fired into the lightly armored rear compartment. Additionally, the tactics we've used during the occupation have been absolutely deplorable and have resulted in a large increase in the number of insurgents.

We should NEVER have gone into that country in the first place, and now we're paying the price in terms of reduced readiness and morale.

Thanks, Herr Bush, for all that you've done.

[Hardrada]

17. The Abrams M1A1 tank vulnerability reminds me

of the British heavy cruisers in WW1 that were lightly armored right in the area of the turrets and ammunition compartments. It didn't take long for the Kaiserliche Hochseeflotte to figure that out! I think the Brits lost 2 or three of them at Jutland.