Chinese cars made at $3.50 an hour, GM's is $73.73

[firefox]

I was reading on the introduction of the Chinese cars in 2008 at http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/geely.html When our goods are not even purchased in this country, just what is it that we will export? I mean it as a serious question and I wish that it could be put to WarCriminal for him to explain just how this country is going to survive when our manufacturing base has been exported.

The silver sedan is named the Geely 7151 CK. The 7151 CK will be the lowest-priced model in the midsize U.S. car segment, providing more competition for General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler Group.

Turnabout is fair play. GM and Ford have been building and selling cars in China for several years and making lots of money along the way.

This is serious competition though. American consumers and workers alike ought to take a long hard look. Geely's average cost for workers in China is $3.50 an hour. That compares with hourly labor costs of $73.73 for GM.

The competitive advantage available in China is so great that some analysts predict that established automakers such as Honda Motor Co. or even GM will eventually sell Chinese-made vehicles in the United States.

[gordianot]

1. Someone might notice when only Chinese cars are left to race at NASCAR.

Take that one NASCAR dad.

[rkc3]

2. Are there any foreign cars on the NASCAR circuit?

I've never had the fortitude to sit through any races.

[catnhatnh]

4. Yep....

Toyota in the truck series and rumors of Honda shortly in cars....

[rkc3]

6. But the truck series is not as widely followed as the cars, correct?

I wonder what the reaction will be when a Honda Accord whips a Ford or a Chevy in the first race. There might be riot at the track.

[catnhatnh]

13. Yes and no....

Truck doesn't get as much airplay, but every nascar fan knows that Toyota wins often in that series....when hondas start whipping ass in the main event it will enter the main street conciousness...but for those most likely to hate it on xenophobic principals-they already know...

[Egalitariat]

43. Toyota trucks are made in the USA. If not they couldn't race in NASCAR***

nm

[slaveplanet]

40. Audi built a car to Nascar specs in 1986

It even had 5 cylinders instead of 8 , they Gave it to Al Unser and he proceeded to destroy the track record at Nascar's high speed track, Talladega. The car was closer to what was actually sold on the showroom floor than any of the illusionary hand made US crap that they were racing at the time. Nascar quickly exercised extreme prejudice and outlawed Audi's entry.

[catnhatnh]

3. Good afternoon from Bristol Tennessee ....

where we await the start of the Daewoo/Sony/Mitsubishi/Kimchi 500.
Take it away,Benny....
Dom Arrigato,Jim....

[Deja Q]

19. And when they do, will we see more crashes and explosions DURING the race?

:wow:

[catnhatnh]

30. 'Kay....

WHY????

[CountAllVotes]

5. $3.50 an hr. in China goes a LONG way

My father was in China after WWII and to talk about it often. He said that at that time, for $1, he could go out all night, be taken around via rickshaw, have a 5 course dinner & drinks and who knows what else? ( :evilgrin: ) ...

:kick:

[rman]

10. self deleted

[Deja Q]

20. Exactly. That's$1 is great for them. Nothing for us. Guess who made

prices so high? US corporations.

They kept driving things up.

If they lower the cost of necessities accordingly, they can globalize all they want.

They can't have it both ways. And the dropping sales figures are going to remind them of that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. Yeah, and my grandfather bought a house for $12,000 in 1950

It's currently worth $450,000. I'd hardly infer the value of the dollar in China from your father's experiences there 50 years ago.

[snooper2]

7. What a shitty little car...

look at the web site.. www.geely.com even made the hood emblem look like BMW...

More crap from China...

[firefox]

12. They can make blue cars and yellow cars.

They can make big cars and little cars. They can make SUVs and trucks. The thing is that with cheap labor, they become an invincible army. And I agree that a lot of Chinese stuff is made to sell and not work, but when it comes to cars, they will be made to do both.

[lectrobyte]

14. Yeah, that's what folks said about Toyotas and Datsuns and VWs

in the 60's, and then Hondas in the 70s... If it's cheap enough, the quality probably doesn't matter, especially if gas gets high enough. If your budget only had room for either a new Geely or a used Chevy Cobalt, how would you vote? Anyone heard if they are going to sell them at Wal Mart?

[snooper2]

21. Well....

You can buy a 4 year old Altima and have a better car...

Whatever, time will tell, I know I won't ever buy a shitty ass little car like that. Looks like a Yugo Wannabe...I don't think this company will have much success over here. Also, I can still find a 78' Toyota Celica that runs like a top, go try to find a 88 Yugo for sale, anywhere...

We get a lot of these other shitty ass little trash can cars here in Dallas from Mexico. Not sure even who makes them, not Daewoo, but close looking as far as size. Always have Mexico plates, shitty ass little cars though, probably don't pass U.S. saftey standards...

[lectrobyte]

26. I've not driven a Geely, just pointing out that the remarks sound

similar to what folks would have said about a Toyota in the 1970s. I can't really comment either way on quality. I couldn't read Chinese to get a feel for their specs, but they look similar to Suzukis and Kias that I see here. Yugo's were crap, but Hyundai came out about the same time and seem to be reasonably successful. Speaking of China, if GM can sell cars there, then what's wrong with them attempting to return the favor?

http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=52093

China: GM is the Most Successful Foreign Carmaker

In China's booming car market, General Motors has been revealed as the top-selling foreign carmaker on the market for 2005, followed closely by German rival Volkswagen. GM's China sales rose by a whopping 35.2 per cent.

[catnhatnh]

31. Xenophobe.....N/T

[fujiyama]

37. It's interesting you mentioned safety standards

because under this administration, the US government cares less and less about regulatory standards...Whether they are environmental, labor, safety, or whatever else...

I still wouldn't call these cars complete carp just yet though. We have yet to see any reviews. Granted, I don't expect much from them and sure wouldn't spend even 10k on them just yet. Hell, if I weer looking at a cheap 10k car, I'd throw it at a Toyota Echo or something like that...or better yet, get a decent used car.

In time these Chinese cars may improve in terms of quality. After all, earlier Japanese cars were thought to be junk...and Korean cars have also improved over the years (now some offer warranties of 100k+ miles).

The main thing to keep in mind is that this isn't such a huge paradigm shift, considering many of the cars we're driving have lots of components already made in China. The main difference now though is that the company itself is Chinese owned.

[catnhatnh]

17. Actually all I see on the site.....

...are pretty normal looking automobiles and chinese ideographs.I suspect there will be initial QC problems but if they have learned from the Japanese at all I suspect that the Big 3 will soon go the way of buggy whip manufacturers....

[leftchick]

18. I though it looked kind of like a Mercedes

[snooper2]

22. Your joking right?

[lectrobyte]

29. a better pic

looks more like Mazdas of a couple of years ago to me, but
looking at this pic, I don't bust out laughing like the first time I saw a
picture of a Yugo.

[RagingInMiami]

8. And they probably still get better gas mileage than GM

[Ikonoklast]

9. My Dad predicted this twenty years ago

He is a Ford white-collar retiree (so is Mom, for that matter).

When everyone was screaming how the Japanese were going to eat our lunch, Dad always said to watch the Chinese. They'll make a cars for next to nothing in labor costs and undercut the whole world with the price advantage.

He also said that if Ford Motor could open up one plant for one week a year and build just one car with twenty-five employees, sell it for $100 million in profit, lay everone off and close the plant until next year, they would do it in a flash.

[CountAllVotes]

16. my father thought so too

He always said that communism was the best thing that ever happened to China. He was there before the communists took over China and used to tell stories about finding the streets strewn with dead bodies every morning. The people had either starved to death, or froze to death in the night on the street being many had nowhere to live. :( He had high hopes for the Chinese both economically and socially.

So yes, the Chinese have come a very long way BUT the quality of what they are making is not good IMO; wasteful junk is what most of it is and this factor alone makes most Chinese products nothing but a throw away economy if there is such a term (?).

As for myself I see it as being a situation that is like this: If the quality doesn't drastically improve on what the Chinese are making, their economy will eventually suffer tremendously in the future as people do not want to buy junk. That is just MY opinion for what it is worth.

:kick:

[Ikonoklast]

24. Then you are old enough to remember

when a "Made in Japan" sticker denoted something cheap and shoddy. Remember how people used to laugh at the first Japanese imports? They learned quickly that quality sells, something that US automakers are STILL trying to get the hang of.

The Chinese are not stupid, they will do what it takes to survive in any market, automobile manufacturing included.

I always felt that given the chance, the Chinese would be able to teach the world a thing or two about capitalism. Hong Kong was the model.

[CountAllVotes]

28. yes I remember that

When the Japanese made nothing but transistor radios! And yeah, they were junk. However, the cars they make have proven themselves to be of excellent quality. I've owned about 5 Hondas and 2 Toyotas in my day.

Do you happen to remember in 1990 or so when all of the Japan bashing was going on? I sure do and I went and bought a new Honda for new for >$10,000.00. Bashing was strong and no one was buying as many Japanese cars at that particular time. That particular Honda (a 4 door Civic stick stift - all Made in Japan) btw, was the best car I ever owned and it got about 40 MPG! :)

And yes, I agree, much can be learned from the Chinese. China has a very long and prestigious history which should never be discounted nor ignored, nor forgotten.

P.S. On edit, I agree. I've never owned an American car for the reasons you state. FORD = FIX OR REPAIR DAILY or FOUND ON THE ROAD DEAD.

:kick:

[MrMonk]

39. Hong Kong was British

[Ikonoklast]

44. British ruled only, not populated

99% of the people living there are/were Chinese. I was commenting on how they made capitalism work for them, under a different political climate that accepted the profit motive.

Given the chance to operate, even in a limited manner under a nominally Communist regime, in an open-market capitalist way, the Chinese take to it with a vengeance.

[Gregorian]

11. This is the new reality.

And not many are talking about it. But it's partly what the "war" is being faught over.

I see two basic choices. Pay them more, or pay us less. I'm sure it's not that binary. But basically that's what it boils down to. Sure, it costs less for a house there. Does it matter? No. That's part of the equation that just serves to compete against our high standard of living.

And then there's India. And then the rest of the world.

Our standard is HIGH. And it's coming down fast.

Just my stupid opinion. Not one I formulated this morning, either.

[rkc3]

23. It's easier to lower our standard of living than to raise the rest of the

world's standards.

That might help with your opinion. Add in NAFTA and CAFTA, which outsource our jobs and bring in cheaper goods to the US. It also starts to whittle away at our safety and environmental regulations - dumbya has said these, particularly the environmental regs, impede domestic growth and competitiveness.

[Nutmegger]

15. THE INVASION OF THE CHINESE CARS IS HERE!!!! n-t

[ladjf]

25. Don't worry. We're headed that way as fast as possible.

Perhaps in two or three decades our wages will be 3.53 per hour to build a car. Progress, if consider slave wages to be a good thing.


GM could be making a profit today while paying $73 per hr if they would produce a car that is as good as the foreign made vehicles.

[LostinVA]

27. Well, gosh, we need to dismantle autoworkers' unions ASAP

So we can compete with the Chinese!:sarcasm:

[Blue_Tires]

32. China is the 'bull in the China shop' (pun intended)

that no one in the automaking industry dares to think about, now that they've hit the ground running...

It took the Japanese 20 GOOD years to get their solid foothold in the Global market...The Koreans were able to do it in just over 10...The Chinese may be able to do it in 5 or 6, depending how fast they can ramp up production...

Ironically, much of the hubris, complacency and shitty decision-making that plagued Detroit for three decades is now settling in with the Japanese and even some German companies, and where they slack off, the Chinese will continually gain strength

[ProfessorGAC]

33. That Sounds Like Creative Accounting To Me

Labor costs are $73.73 per hour. Every worker costs the company $147 grand per year. That must include total overhead absorption including executive pay, administrative costs, R&D, and capital improvements for ergonomics.

I think this number compares apples and oranges.
The Professor

[firefox]

35. You raise a valid point

You would think that $73.73 has to include some kind of allocation of overhead and indirect labor. It surely cannot mean that the worker himself makes money like that. But on the other side, you have to think that $3.50 also includes an allocation because a worker in China making $3.50 an hour would be very well off.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Don't Forget, Much Of The Administrative Overhead Is Gov't

So, the books would be kept differently there, even if totally on the up & up. (No Enron or Arbusto bookkeeping.)

So, even then, it's apples and oranges.
The Professor

[iconoclastNYC]

41. Maybe it includes the high costs of

Pensions and Health Costs for retirees?

Isn't like $1500 of each car directly attributable to health cost for current and past employees?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. I wonder how much the Chinese CEO's make an hour.

As compared to the geniuses at GM & Ford who roll out junk that can't compete with Toyota & Honda.

[jmowreader]

42. This thing worries the shit out of me

We are looking at a car that's probably every bit as good as the Hyundai Excel was when it was introduced to the US market--it had been on the market in Korea as the "Pony Excel" for a year or so.

No, the Excel wasn't a GREAT car, but it was okay. In Korea, Hyundais were the preferred car. I still see Excels on the roads.

And understand one thing about the Excel: Hyundai had been making cars for many, many years before they started importing them to the US--far longer than the Chinese have been making them.

If Geely is where Hyundai was, and Geely's been making cars for less time than Hyundai had, this car is going to be extremely good in five years.

Hyundai is probably more diverse than Geely; Hyundai is the world's biggest manufacturer of cargo ships and they make thousands of other things. As far as I know, Geely only makes cars.

[Justice Is Comin]

45. We won't be able to

do anything to restrict them from coming in either thanks to *.

We owe the Chinese 250 billion in foreign debt. They'll just call the note due and payable if we don't open the doors.