And Baby Makes Three in One Bed

[Sequoia]

JENNIFER JAKOVICH has spent most of her 5-month-old daughter's life dodging questions from friends, family and strangers about how and where Chloe sleeps. But since hearing that Dr. Richard Ferber, the country's most famous infant sleep expert, has relaxed his admonition against parents sleeping with their babies, she has taken a different tack.

"I now mention Ferber's new view while openly admitting to co-sleeping," said Ms. Jakovich, an engineer in San Diego. She has broken the news to friends that Chloe sleeps in the same bed with her and her husband, John, a computer programmer. "I feel I have now been given the green light, that it's O.K."

The Jackoviches are part of a growing group of American parents who share a bed with their baby, a common practice in the rest of the world, which had become nearly taboo in this country. A survey by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development has found that about one-fifth of parents with infants up to eight months old said the baby usually shared a bed with them, more than triple the number of a decade ago.

The trend appears to be driven largely by the increase in breastfeeding working mothers, who say it allows them to connect with their babies and still get some sleep. But given the prevailing cultural distaste, many parents say they have felt compelled to hide their shared sleeping arrangements.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/29/fashion/thursdaystyles/29sleep.html?ex=1137042000&en=58a7eae07ef7d503&ei=5070

I totally agree. We had our daughter sleep with us until she started getting bigger and taking over the king sized bed. It was wonderful to have her near to feed, hug, and shower with kisses. My doctor was horrified and told me to stop immediately. He was wrong and I ignored him completely. Now she's 10 and very well adjusted thank you. How can something that's been going on for thousands of years be wrong in "Merica"? It's cruel to let a child scream alone.

[Missy Vixen]

1. Disclaimer: I am not a parent

>one-fifth of parents with infants up to eight months old said the baby usually shared a bed with them, more than triple the number of a decade ago.<

We know those who are devotees of "attachment parenting". It's their business. At the same time, those we know practicing this idea seem to also be having issues with the primary relationship, which is with their spouse.

IMHO, YMMV.
Julie

[Arugula Latte]

85. Well, if you have an infant,

you're most likely not doing much lovin' for months after the birth, anyway. Plus, there are other times/places to be intimate.

[Telly Savalas]

109. That's a study with a sample size of one.

[NVMojo]

2. I raised three children this way. They are all normal adults today,

what ever normal is.

[BigMcLargehuge]

3. We are parent/child co-sleepers

it's the only way we'd get any sleep at all.

[Pithlet]

116. We did a combination of the two.

I breastfed, so it was easier for me to just bring baby in bed with me to nurse at night. We kept a bassinet in the room, and if I didn't fall asleep first I'd put him back in it. More often than not, though, the baby would end up in bed with us. I was afraid it would be hard to get them to sleep in a crib when they were older and sleeping through the night, but it wasn't a problem. If all the precautions are taken, I think it is just as safe as a crib. I think either choice is fine.

[smoogatz]

4. We tried co-sleeping, or an approximation of it, anyway--

no letting the kid cry--our son is 17 months old and still doesn't sleep through the night. As my wife so eleoquently says, "Fuck Dr. Sears." Let the sleep-training begin.

[Dora]

15. Have you looked at the Ferber book?

My son isn't as old yours, but I maxed out on the midnight feedings when he was six months old. I picked up a used copy of Ferber's "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems" at Half-Price Books and went to work on getting him to sleep. I especially appreciated how the book explained infant sleep cycles.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671620991/103-4299410-4386222?v=glance&n=283155

Yes, the Ferber method does involve some "crying it out," but it doesn't involve abandonment of the child. On our first night, he cried for one hour and fifteen minutes, and I checked on him every fifteen minutes. On the second night, he cried for forty-five minutes, and I checked on him every fifteen minutes. On the third night, he fell asleep after two minutes, and slept all the way through until 6:30 the next morning: ten hours of blissful sleep. Now, on most nights, I'll put him in the crib and if he's not ready to sleep, he'll sing and babble until he drops off.

He's ten months old now, and occasionally he'll wake up in the night, but I give him a chance to get back to sleep on his own before I'll step in. 90% of the time, it works. When it doesn't work, I'll bring him to bed with his dad and me and nurse him so we can all sleep.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. Sounds like a good method

I'll have to remember that for when I'm a parent someday. :) The baby will have to learn to sleep on his/her own sooner or later.

[smoogatz]

46. We started to do Ferber-like sleep training before Christmas

and it worked like a charm--45 minutes of abject howling night one (checking in at 5, 10, 15 minutes and so on), 20 minutes night two, two minutes night three. Then along came Christmas and a two-week trip to the in-laws, and it all went out the window. Now we've got lower eye-teeth growing in (six months early, mind you), so we're waiting until that stabilizes before we start again.

[Dora]

56. Yeah, travel will do that.

We went to Phoenix for the holidays, and our son actually did pretty well with sleeping until we came back home. Then he started waking up at 5:00 - an hour earlier than usual. I had a run of abject howling last night too, and I think it's teething related. I have discovered that infant ibuprofen is our friend!

[jhain]

212. the reason the book was 1/2 price

http://cbs4boston.com/seenon/local_story_320114636.html

After 20 years of advocating letting children cry themselves to sleep, Dr. Richard Ferber is revising his recommendations.

[Dora]

222. You know what?

It worked for me. And nearly every night, my ten-month old son sleeps without a hiccup straight through from 8 pm to 6 am. And that's in his crib. Which is located right next to my side of the bed. Which he sometimes joins us in if he happens to be hungry, or upset becaue he's teething, which isn't very often at all.

You know what else? Somebody else showed me that link, and I followed it, and I can find no primary source that says Ferber is revising his recommendations. Show me a primary source and I'll believe it. Until then, it's hearsay.

Your logic is appalling. I take books to half-price all the time. Not because I think they're crap, but because I no longer need them and I think that somebody else might like the chance to buy it for less than new, and I'd like the extra cash in my wallet.

[jhain]

227. Sigh....................

I suggest you do your own googling.
He has a new book coming out in March- refuting most of what he had previously published.

[Dora]

231. sigh.....

If you won't back up your own post, then I see no reason for me to do it for you. :freak:

I visited the website for the sleep disorders clinic at boston children's hospital. Yeah, that's the clinic that Ferber runs. No mention there.

You jumped in on a sub-thread where I volunteered unasked-for advice to another DUer's mention of their child's sleeping difficulties. I suggested what worked for me. I see no appropriate context for your criticism.

Condescension is so unbecoming. And such a shame, considering that we're all in the same political boat.

[Dora]

234. And I'd also like to add...

If you had something to contribute to the sub-thread - like another opinion on effective methods of helping your child sleep - it would have been better shared with the other poster. Instead, you had to show off your snark muscles and criticize what has worked quite well for me. What a waste.

[thinkingwoman]

59. my daughter didn't sleep alone

in her room until she was 2 1/2 and we brought home her baby brother.

Midway through his first night home she hopped up from her makeshift bed on the floor near ours and announced she was going to her room because "he's just too loud."

Our son, on the other hand, loved sleeping alone at a much earlier age.

Each individual is different.

[Left Is Write]

68. I agree. My son started sleeping alone in his own bed at age 3.

And we had no trouble with the transition. I was ready, he was ready - and it worked. My daughter started sleeping in her own bed around 2½.

[Yollam]

5. We slept with both our kids until they were 3 and 5.

The younger one is 5 now and still sleeps with us a couple of times a week. I think this is healthy, normal, and much more natural than isolating a child in a separate room from infancy. Do you think cave people put their babies in separate caves for the night?

I should add that both our kids were born in Japan, and when they were very small we slept all together on futons on tatami floors in one room together, which is the custom there. This would never be an issue there, since putting a baby in another room would be counterintuitive.

But that's western culture, always at odds with nature and normal, instinctive human behavior.

[Arugula Latte]

86. I always say the same thing about the cavemen. We evolved to be

close to our babies at night. Who would leave their kid alone in the next cave while the wolves howled? My kids slept with us until they were probably about three; it was cozy and they felt secure and loved. They had little problem making the transition (well, in retrospect, maybe a little, but it's funny how your memory blurs over that stuff after the fact).

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. Our son slept with us all the time.

When he was first born, he cried for the first 4 months...non-stop. He and we slept much better when he slept with us. Then when he got his toddler bed, could get out of it on his own, he'd come in in the middle of the night (EVERY night :)) to sleep with us. Not because he was scared, he just liked sleeping with mommy and daddy and we LOVED having him there to cuddle and love. That went on for YEARS until, like you, he was spread eagle on the bed and taking up the whole King sized bed! He's now 12 and we just made him a new bedroom downstairs in the basement and he loves it. He still comes in at night and sits on the bed just to talk at the end of the day. Very normal kid and a real sweetheart. He's kindhearted, wouldn't hurt a flea in words or deeds and has a great attitude, most of the time. LOL!

I see NOTHING wrong with making your child feel loved, safe and secure by letting them sleep with you. That's what parents are for, right?

[Beetwasher]

7. My Wife Is Japanese

and wants to do this when we have a baby...I'm not too keen on it...Once in a while is ok, but all the time, I dunno...I'm not sure it would be safe, I can be a pretty rough sleeper...

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. It's instinct...you won't crush or hurt your baby. I promise.:)

There's no better feeling than waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that cute little thing just laying there sound asleep and completely content because they know they're safe and loved. I just loved having my son sleep with us.... my husband did too. ESPECIALLY when he was a newborn and all I did was worry about SIDS.:scared: Having him right next to you, you can always know they're OK. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

47. What's sids???

:shrug:

[myrna minx]

49. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.

:cry:

[insane_cratic_gal]

52. Sudden Infant death Syndrome

Not related to co-sleeping

Available data indicate that the prone (on the stomach) sleeping position is associated with the highest risk of SIDS; the supine, or back, position, is associated with the lowest risk, and the side-lying position falls in between.9,10 Basically, "back is best" from a SIDS risk-reduction point of view

Cigarette Smoke Exposure

Potentially Hazardous Sleeping Environments :Unsafe bedding material may be associated with the occurrence of SIDS; infants should be put to bed in a supine position on a standard mattress without pillows.


I didn't want people to just assume that SIDS is related to co-sleeping because there is no evidence to support that.

[spuddonna]

53. SIDS=Sudden Infant Death Syndrome

Its when babies (for reasons yet unknown) just stop breathing in the middle of the night. Big worry for new parents... That's one of the reasons for the 'Back to Sleep' campaign for newborns that pediatricians promote - putting babies to sleep on their backs. Seems to lessen the chance? (I have no idea if they actually have evidence it helps.) But I remember doing it with our kids!

[Dora]

57. Back sleeping is best.

And yes, it has been statistically proven that ever since doctors began encouraging parents to put babies to sleep on their backs, SIDS rates in the U.S. decreased dramatically.

[melv]

66. I disagree

I don't believe it's instinct.

[Left Is Write]

70. Can you explain why you feel that way?

I felt an instinct to bring my first child into bed with me, but I didn't because at that time, it just wasn't "done," and as far as I knew, you were supposed to put the baby in a crib. I did it, but it went against my own gut feeling.

My youngest two were co-sleepers.

[linazelle]

112. My best friend's husband rolled over and smothered their baby.

While they were asleep. It was relegated to SIDS. I was there when he woke up and yelled for help. He was in shock and I picked up the lifeless baby and carried it to the paramedics--it's hard to say this, but it was kind of flattened and that's how I knew what really happened. I never told my best friend who was at work at the time what I knew. He never recovered because I think he knew too.

It can and does happen.

[mainer]

117. See my statistics below. Yes, babies ARE smothered

The study out of St. Louis found that in four years, 120 babies were smothered in their city during co-sleeping.

No instinct protected THOSE infants.

[northzax]

125. they were obviously bad parents

a good parent would never do that, right?


oh fine. /sarcasm.

[Tigress DEM]

148. Not funny. nt

[northzax]

151. well hey, if instinct protects children

and some aren't protected, then the ones that aren't must have bad parents, right? It is a completely logical extension of the train of thought.

[LisaL]

162. Exactly. We don't have that good of an instinct.

And people have the gull to blame it on cats too! Remember that stupid old wife tale of cats sucking the breath of the babies?

[northzax]

124. well, according to the Consumer Product Safety Commission

between 1990 and 1997 515 infants were killed sleeping with their parents. So while it's rare, it certainly happens.

[Ilsa]

138. How many died in cribs during the same period because they

didn't get the respiratory stimulation from their mothers? Or because there was something wrong with their cribs or bedding?

[northzax]

140. more, certainly

but since the point I was responding to was that it was instinct that prevents parents from smothering children in their sleep, I thought I'd point out some problems in the theory.

Or did these parents just not have good instincts?

[Ilsa]

142. I think there are plenty of parents with poor instincts about alot of

things involving parenting.

I think there are some people that shouldn't cosleep or even be parents because they feel like they deserve a full uninterrupted eight hours of sleep. I don't think it's realistic once you become a parent to expect uninterrupted sleep every night, or not to expect some changes in one's life. The terms change with babies. Not all babies are born with a high degree of flexibility. Some babies are born higher-need; others are "easy" and seem to mold into extra-uterine life more easily.

[Tigress DEM]

150. Are you a parent? Just curious.

I'm just wondering how you can say a parent has poor instincts because they may be biologically in need of 8 hours of sleep.

While I agree in general that a parent should be prepared to be in boot camp when they become a parent, it isn't to say that they still won't have to fight their own body's need for sleep, but that doesn't make them bad parents.

[Ilsa]

163. I'm not saying that. And I am the mom of two, one with special needs.

I am saying that alot of people go into parenthood with unrealistic expectations, including about how their children "should be" in terms of behavior and personality. They may let these ideas overrule their instincts if they have them. Some babies crave more tactileness, holding, and that might include co-sleeping, so I think parents should read up on how it is done safely, and be prepared to adjust to the needs of the infant.

I know lots of moms who co-slept with their babies so they could get a decent night's sleep, also. My own mother had to keep taking my older sister to bed with her because she would stop breathing in the crib.

I am not against the notion of not co-sleeping if someone knows it isn't for them, but they may in some cases need to be prepared for an uphill battle with their infant if the baby adapts more slowly to extra-uterine life.

But I am also distressed that people in the US don't realize what goes on (on this subject) in other cultures, because crib death is practically unheard of in other cultures. Co-sleeping is very common in other cultures, and many suspect that ancient so-calling "rolling over" of infants was a mask for infanticide. Dr. James McKenna is an anthropologist and he has written extensively on this subject.

[insane_cratic_gal]

179. USCSPC Sponsor was a baby crib manf!

how much more slanted can you get! COME ON you know what commercialism plays on US policy, you think it doesn't get a kick back? For telling you to put your baby in a crib.
conflict of interest? Who is behind this new national campaign to warn parents not to sleep with their babies? In addition to the USCPSC, the Juvenile Products Manufacturers Association (JPMA) is co-sponsoring this campaign. The JPMA? An association of crib manufacturers. This is a huge conflict of interest. Actually, this campaign is exactly in the interest of the JPMA.

<snip>

There has been a lot of media lately claiming that sleeping with your baby in an adult bed is unsafe and can result in accidental smothering of an infant. One popular research study came out in 1999 from the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission that showed 515 cases of accidental infant deaths occurred in an adult bed over an 8-year period between 1990 and 1997. That's about 65 deaths per year. These deaths were not classified as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), where the cause of death is undetermined. There were actual causes that were verified upon review of the scene and autopsy. Such causes included accidental smothering by an adult, getting trapped between the mattress and headboard or other furniture, and suffocation on a soft waterbed mattress.

The conclusion that the researchers drew from this study was that sleeping with an infant in an adult bed is dangerous and should never be done. This sounds like a reasonable conclusion, until you consider the epidemic of SIDS as a whole. During the 8-year period of this study, about 34,000 total cases of SIDS occurred in the U.S. (around 4250 per year). If 65 cases of non-SIDS accidental death occurred each year in a bed, and about 4250 cases of actual SIDS occurred overall each year, then the number of accidental deaths in an adult bed is only 1.5% of the total cases of SIDS.

so 515 vs 34,000

There are two pieces of critical data that are missing that would allow us to determine the risk of SIDS or any cause of death in a bed versus a crib.


How many cases of actual SIDS occur in an adult bed versus in a crib?
How many babies sleep with their parents in the U.S., and how many sleep in cribs?

The data on the first question is available, but has anyone examined it? In fact, one independent researcher examined the CPSC's data and came to the opposite conclusion than did the CPSC - this data supports the conclusion that sleeping with your baby is actually SAFER than not sleeping with your baby (see Mothering Magazine Sept/Oct 2002). As for the second question, many people may think that very few babies sleep with their parents, but we shouldn't be too quick to assume this. The number of parents that bring their babies into their bed at 4 am is probably quite high. Some studies have shown that over half of parents bring their baby into bed with them at least part of the night. And the number that sleep with their infants the whole night is probably considerable as well. In fact, in most countries around the world sleeping with your baby is the norm, not the exception. And what is the incidence of SIDS in these countries? Japan the rate was only one tenth of the U.S. rate, and in Hong Kong, it was only 3% of the U.S. rate

Now the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission and the Juvenile Products Manufacturer's Association are launching a campaign based on research data from 1999, 2000, and 2001. During these three years, there have been 180 cases of non-SIDS accidental deaths occurring in an adult bed. Again, that's around 60 per year, similar to statistics from 1990 to 1997. How many total cases of SIDS have occurred during these 3 years? Around 2600 per year. This decline from the previous decade is thought to be due to the "back to sleep" campaign - educating parents to place their babies on their back to sleep. So looking at the past three years, the number of non-SIDS accidental deaths is only 2% of the total cases of SIDs.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t102200.asp scroll down the safe sleeping

[northzax]

185. my sole point was to respond to a promise that instinct

will stop you from smothering your baby if you co-sleep. obviously, this isn't always the case, is it? If the point had been a promise that instinct would prevent you from doing anything, I would make the same case.

[tnlefty]

129. My husband loved the fact that there were no bottle feedings that force

one to get out of bed. He would get up and change'em (if necessary) and hand'em back to Mom and he swears it was better than having a bottle baby. He never rolled on one, nor did any of ours ever get "hurt" because an arm was flung onto them during the night, and they were in cribs without fuss earlier than the bottlefed (first and also a premie) baby. He's told me many times since, "If I knew then (when the premie came home from the hospital) what I've learned since I would have been more helpful when there was so much pressure NOT to breastfeed the first one." Dads figure out that everyone gets more sleep and as a result resuming one's sex life is more likely gonna happen, and yes when infants are young it really is possible for Mom and Dad to be intimate while the little one is in the bed. If things might get a little rowdy it's very convenient to have a cradle nearby.

[Tigress DEM]

147. You CAN NOT Promise such a thing.

Infants CAN be killed this way. It happened to my son's friends New Year's Eve. A six week old little baby girl who was absolutely loved by her parents so much they couldn't bear to be apart from her was suffocated by one of them during the night and they never knew it -- until it was too late.

I'm sure things often go just fine. I did this with my own son occasionally, but it is totally irresponsible to say that INSTINCT will keep you from crushing your baby when you know absolutely NOTHING about this person or his physiology.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

232. Don't make that promise - it's one you can't keep

I nearly smothered my son while sleeping. I rolled over, pinning him face down into the mattress. Maybe it was instinct that caused me to wake up, but it was probably his little heaving lungs trying to get air. And while it broke my heart that my wife and I could not sleep with our son in bed, I am glad that I found out what a bad idea it is for me to sleep in bed with a baby before something bad did happen.

We never slept with him after that (but he did have a bassinette in our room). If a person is a heavy sleeper that moves a lot when they sleep (I am), I would NOT recommend them falling asleep in bed with their baby.

[insane_cratic_gal]

233. Its never recommend for an Infant

to be in the middle of two adults

It's a BIG NO NO and among the things NOT to do. rules.

Yes there are rules and safety features to co sleeping, I know it seems silly but they have them.

I'm sorry your experience was negatively effected and I'm glad the choice works for you two or three (as you will)

[EvolveOrConvolve]

235. Where does the child sleep if not between the two adults?

It'd freak me out a little bit if my baby was on the outside of the bed where he could fall off.

BTW, I wasn't saying that I don't advocate co-sleeping. But there are people out there who probably shouldn't be sleeping with their baby. I'm one of those people. I sleep deeply and move around the bed a lot. We have a king size bed because it's the only size that gives me the room to roam while I sleep.

I absolutely think that parents who want to sleep with their babies (and can do it safely) should do so. It seems like a wonderful way to bond with the new baby, and make him/her feel safe, secure and loved. How old do you think a child should be when they're too old to co-sleep? I ask because several parents I've talked to have regretted keeping their kids in bed for too long (3 seems to be the cut off date for too old).

[insane_cratic_gal]

236. Push the bed against one wall

My husband is like you, a bit of restless sleeper moves often. I've always been a pretty stationary person. Either my side or my back.

So for us it made sense to keep her beside me and the wall. I didn't shove pillows between her and the wall that would of been dangerous. I did use a towel shoved deep down in the cracks, so she wouldn't get stuck down should she roll too close to the wall. Once they are older you can of course move the bed away.

As for the other question by 4 she was in her own bed, she's 8 now. I was ready, she was ready and it went off without a hitch. Some kids go earlier, some later. She does still come in my room around 3 or 4 am ..2 or 3 nights a week but I really don't mind that she does nor does my Husband.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

238. Do you think it made your daughter less independent

sleeping in bed with you for that long. I'm curious, because that's the #1 complaint I hear from the parents who have regretted allowing their kids to sleep with them too long. Or has it perhaps helped make her more independent because it's allowed her to be more secure in herself and her own decision making? Sorry if I'm getting too nosy, I'm very interested in this.

My son has refused to sleep in bed with since he was about 4. He's 9 now, but up until the time he was about 6, when he had nightmares or woke up in the middle of the night he would come into our room. Unfortunately, he's a deep sleeper who bounces around a lot when he sleeps, just like me. After a couple nights of beating the crap out of each other he decided that it was much better (and safer) either in his own bed or on the floor next to my wife.

[Ms. Toad]

244. I don't know about bed sharing,

But I think there is a lot to say for doing everything you can do so that your child feels deeply secure.

I was a stay at home mom. My daughter never had a sitter until she was 18 months old. Everyone predicted that she would have severe separation anxiety when I ultimately did leave her - I was sure she would not. Because she never experienced a time when she needed me and I was not the crucial first few years when she was developing her sense of place in the world, she never once had difficulties in leaving me. During pre-school she'd cheerfully wave goodbye (and was in no hurry to go home at the end of the morning). At age 12 she went to Australia without us for 3 weeks (with People to People) - and when we finally caught up with her by phone a week and a half into the trip she said, "Mom, can you call back later..." Of course, as she approaches adulthood and talks about living in another country I'm wishing I hadn't helped create such a secure child....

Sharing a bed can be part of that, although we never did on any regular basis. We did follow her lead and kept her company while she fell asleep (again, against the advice of friends and family who were sure she'd never be able to fall asleep alone. When she was ready, she began going to sleep alone and we never went through periods of her "needing" to cry herself to sleep.

Listen to your child. There is no emotional reason children should be forced into separation before they are ready. Enjoy it - whatever form it takes. They won't be around forever - and eventually they'll let you know they are ready for more independence.

[insane_cratic_gal]

247. No she's a fine happy secure kid

I encourage her autonomy and self reliance. From choosing her own outfits the night before bed, to her choosing what she will eat and make for breakfast, to earning her own allowance (yes 8 is young) to how she spends that money. I encourage choice, I encourage the choice to be hers. I find that by instilling trust in your child, they trust themselves to be independent to make choices for themselves.

She's slept over people's houses and lasted fine through the night, and other times not so much. But i've always found that it's not based on her being dependent on me. It's her not feeling or being in a comfort zone. Like the parent raised their voice to their child or one of the other kids got in trouble.

I think dependence issues are normal. I know people who've done Freebers by the book, yet the min first grade started or even 2nd suffered through weeks of separation anxiety. Every child is unique, it's hard to guess how one will respond. All you can do is predict how you will react to it. How you react is what ultimately decides the success of your relationship with your child.

Has she had separation anxiety? Yes she did have a small bout when she was 4, but 1. she wasn't sleeping with me anymore more.. and it had more to do with her Dad being in the Navy and Deployed.
War is hell on kids.. any child who's daddy or mommy is serving in the military are going to suffer some insecurity and doubt about being away from a loved one, especially when they only have one other person remaining. Military families often move to new places with no family support, as did we. So raising a healthy child in that environment is doubly challenging but it's done.

I offered a lot of reassurances, lots of encouragement, and brave words and a brave front. Important thing is you work through it with your child.
She's 8, thriving asleep in her own room as well speak, and chose to listen to classical music to help her relax before bed.

[Sequoia]

12. I wouldn't worry about that. Your body knows.

And you'll be glad to have your little baby with you. When he/she looks at you with those eyes you will just melt and pile laundry in the baby's crib and keep him/her snuggled close. As far as "your relationship with your mate" will suffer...ever heard of naps for baby and afternoon delight for you? Dr. Sears is totally WRONG!

[Tigress DEM]

152. Having the baby with you for some time, but please think about this.

How would you feel if someone took your well meaning advice and then smothered their child accidentally?

What would you tell that grief stricken parent when they informed you of the death of their beloved child and your cavalier advice?

I hope it never happens again to anyone anywhere, but it does happen and it destroys a parent's world when it happens.

Would you put your child in a car without a car seat? Do you know how many parents used to ride around with their kids on their laps? Do you have any idea of how terrible it is for a parent to be the cause of their child's death?

[Coexist]

164. I would feel about the same if someone DIDN'T co-sleep

because I said there was a risk that a child could be smothered and they died of SIDS in their crib.

Life is messy. Just because we HAVE a healthy baby doesn't mean we are guaranteed that child will reach adulthood. We, as a society have done a lot to greatly improve those odds, but they will NEVER be 100%.

We will never know how many crib deaths could have been prevented by co-sleeping (respiratory stimulation) and how many bed-deaths could have been prevented by crib-sleeping. They are ALL tragedies.

No one should ever co-sleep if they have had ANY alcohol or taken any medication that causes drowsiness, there should be a minimum of blankets, pillows and plush toys.

Cribs should have a minimum of blankets, pillows and plush toys.

I co-slept with all three and had wonderful experiences will all of them. I will not tell people what to do - they should educate themselves and make their own decision. But I will also not lie about what an amazing, positive experience it was for me.

I remember on afternoon - I had a newborn and a toddler at the time. My newborn had just nursed to sleep in my bed with me, and my toddler was curled around him - I could feel her little feet on my thighs, just about my knees, my son's tiny feet rested about 2 inches above hers - we were all curled in this little ball together. My one arm was on my daughters back. As I drifted off into my nap, I remember thinking that THIS is why we "fetal" when we are on our sides, not to spoon with our mate, but to protect out children as we all sleep. That was the most peaceful, complete moment of my life.

[insane_cratic_gal]

36. you can put your wife

next to you and your child on the other side of her. so the child is closer the wall.

We did this till my daughter was 4, it makes you closer as a family in my opinion.

I used a blanket in the crack (way way down) between the bed and the wall. I pushed it way down though so if she did roll toward it (though she never did) it wouldn't touch her face.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. Is everybody's bed up against a wall?

News to me. :-)

Our headboard is, of course, up against a wall, but that's it. I haven't had a bed against a wall since i was in college.

[insane_cratic_gal]

64. Oh I did when I was co-sleeping

It isn't now mind you!

But for the first 2 years it was. I felt better about it that way.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. That would be my problem

I roll around a lot in my sleep and my arms spread out and I love to spread out and it's the only way now days I can sleep. I'd be worried about that part of sleeping with a baby.

[AwakeAtLast]

144. There are beds made especially for co-sleepers

They attach to the bed. If breastfeeding had worked out for me, I would have wished for one.

Take a look at some when you do the baby registry. I think they will take away some of your anxiety.

And look at it this way - a less sleep-deprived Mom means a happier house!

:hi:

[Bonobo]

191. My wife is Japanese as well. All 3 kids have slept in a family nest and

there was never any trouble... Don't worry, you won't crush anyone but the sex may slow down a bit...

[Pacifist Patriot]

220. Mom sleeps in the middle.

Baby on one side, daddy on the other. Use safety product with the bed next to baby that is designed for co-sleeping.

Bed smotherings from a restless adult are rare. In most cases, alcohol or some other substance resulting in arousal issues are a factor.

There are smart and dumb ways to use either a crib or a co-sleeping arrangement. It's not the sleeping choice itself, it's the additional decisions that affect safety of the choice.

[SidDithers]

243. I've read the same thing about alcohol...

glad you brought it up.

Sid

[seabeyond]

8. one child slept with us, one child didnt

one child was fearful at night, the other slept thru the night. whereever we could get the sleep, in the middle of the night, we took it, didnt matter who was in our bed, or us in their bed, we just wanted sleep. i would rather them feel safe and secure with our energy, than alone and afraid without.

and the one that suggests it is hard on a marriage,....oosh, the hard on a marriage would be the mate having the issue. something else much bigger is going on. we didnt have any issue what so ever.

[fasttense]

9. Hmmm, not sure about this

Seems it will be very difficult to train the child to sleep in her own bed when she reaches the arbitrary age that is consider too old to sleep with parents.

It would certainly curtail sexual relations with hubby and what do you do for nap time? Does the child willingly go down for naps in the bed by herself or does the stay at home parent or babysitter have to lay down with the child to get her to sleep?

I had a little bassinet I kept next to my bed. It was handy for breast feeding to reach over, lift the baby and feed at night. Then gently put them back in the bassinet after feeding (or after I woke up). When my babies got too big for the bassinet, it was time to put them in their own room. When they cried we got up to check on them. They never screamed for hours on end and had nice long naps. Now they are very well adjusted teenagers.

It probably depends on your parenting style.

[MountainLaurel]

19. It can often be easier

Because cosleeping kids tend to be more secure that if they do need their parents for whatever reason, those needs will be met. Usually, it's pretty easy to couch it in terms of "graduating" to a big girl room, which is important to kids at certain ages.

[insane_cratic_gal]

26. My daughter Co-slept

It was easier for me, plus I was a neurotic new mom. I constantly got up to check on her to be sure she was ok and I never got much sleep doing that. Not to mention, our first few apts were on the small side there was only one bedroom.

She was fine to go in her own bed at 5, She's 8 now and doing just fine. There was no big fight, she was just ready and willing to go. The transition was easy. We made it fun, and adventure into her maturing as a young lady.

As far as the whole sexual relations thing.. not everything takes place in a bed the old fashion way. Kids sleep, there are nooks and counters to explore =p. I'll leave it at.


People use to complain all of the time. "What are you going to do when she's too old to sleep in your room?" I hated that! Why can't people mind their own business when it comes that? It's been done and celebrated for centuries. What about when sisters shared a bed? in 1800's? Or servants? (not that your saying that at all btw lol just venting.)

Lets just settle that stupid argument once and for all.
Your kids are not going to sleep with you till they are 18 or even 10. I always say: Enjoy it, because one of these days she's going to wake up and decide you aren't the in thing anymore and she's far too mature for the likes of you.


Your 100 percent right the transition from parent co sleeping to their own independence or bed is really dependent about parenting style. It can be easy or forced, I chose an easier but longer path.

[SmokingJacket]

11. People should do whatever works for them, of course.

My kids went back and forth between the bed and the bassinet for the first few months, then into their own room. We kept each other awake when we slept together, and frankly, we're a family that enjoys our personal space. But I know some families sleep better together. Everyone getting enough high-quality sleep is the most important thing.

I do know a couple families that did co-sleeping when the kids were babies, and then had a lot of trouble changing the rules when they didn't want a three year old in their bed. It can be pretty hard on the kid if they're not used to being alone...

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. It IS possible to roll over and smother the baby

It HAS happened.

Just something to think about.

[MountainLaurel]

18. Yes, but in almost all cases

The parent was on drugs, drunk, ill (and taking cold medication or a pain pill), or obese (which makes them more likely to suffer from apnea).

[melv]

54. or the parent was a deep sleeper.

please don't make generalizations without sweeping evidence to go along with it.

Even ONE unnecessary death by this means is too much.

[insane_cratic_gal]

58. aren't you making them too?

lets be honest .. Common sense would apply. If your a heavy sleeper you aren't going to sleep with your child. It would worry you too much

if your a drinker you aren't going to do it

If your obese you aren't going to do it.

You have evidence in this thread, that suggests Co-sleeping is done safely! My own child is an example, but people have to make it a dirty secret. Why? because of other people judging them. I got it all of the time because OUR culture pushes independence at some time line or preferred age of 4months? or younger. I wasn't comfortable with that.


Most people do what feels natural, for me.. I was fine with co-sleeping. We shouldn't' just assume it's wrong before we do a little research on the topic, it would remove a lot of the ignorance stated in the thread with the repetitive statements and questions. I'm not directing this at you, but there a a lot of these statements in unknowledgable explanations without evidence to back them up all up in this thread. It's frustrating to say the least.

Perhaps I'll do what I did when I made my choice, and ignore what everyone else has said. It worked well for me and my 8 yr old daughter is charming affectionate and healthy, oh and sleeping in her own room. As proof that they won't sleep with you till their 18.

[MountainLaurel]

63. Thanks for the support, insane

:hi:

[melv]

65. yes, that was the point - I was making a broad generalization

I would say that while it has been done, and while most children don't die from it, this does not make the case nor provide evidence for the assertation that it can be done safely.

We can agree to disagree about the evidence. I'm ok with that. Your child, your choice.

[Left Is Write]

71. By that logic, you could also say that most children don't die in cribs.

But some do.

[Ms. Toad]

103. and more die alone in their cribs from SIDS

than from being crushed in their parents' bed - particularly when there is nothing like alcohol/medication/sleep disorder/obesity impacting the parents' ability to avoid rolling onto their child.

[LisaL]

195. Considering the reasons for SIDS are unknown, not

much can be done to prevent it, can there? On the other hand, all one has to do to not smother their child in bed is not sleep in the same bed with the child.
If there is something that can be done to prevent death of the infant, then it should be done, no?

[Ms. Toad]

240. Absolutely.

That's why I never allowed my daughter to climb trees, swing on swings, ride a bike, go swimming, or any number of other activities which could have killed her.

Seriously, raising children involves risks (as does living, for that matter). The best way of minimizing the risk that your infant will die is not to bring him or her into the world in the first place. The risk that an infant will die in an adult bed is minuscule as long as the adults are not physically or emotionally impaired in their ability to tend to someone sleeping with them. I happen to think that for healthy mobile adults and their infants the emotional benefits of a shared bed can far outweigh any physical risks, just as I think the benefits of allowing my child to participate in normal kid activities outweighs the risks associated with those activities.

There are extremes on both ends (going overboard for safety's sake or taking extreme risks) - for example - driving drunk with your child in the car OR never allowing anyone to touch your healthy infant without full medical isolation garb. Co-sleeping does not fall on either end of the spectrum. It is associated with less risk, for example, than permitting your healthy infant to sleep alone without a SIDS monitor. I did not see anyone who has been chastising parents for co-sleeping advocating, as a blanket matter, that all children be electronically monitored for SIDS. Most folks would consider that excessive.

On the other hand, since it is obvious that you find the idea frightening the benefits would probably not outweigh the risks for you and your infant - so don't do it.

[melv]

50. Bingo.

I tried it for 2 nights when my son was born. I woke up both of those sleep depraved nights in hysterics because I had been dreaming that I had smothered him.

If you are going to co sleep, get that bed extension that attaches to the side of your bed with netting on the outside 3 sides, but is the right length for an infant. They can be close, but with no fear of the parent rolling over onto the infant.

proud2blib is right. It HAS happened. It WILL happen again. No matter what any parent says about "knowing subconciously not to roll onto the baby." Some parents are light sleepers. Some are not. That's the way it goes.

[thinkingwoman]

60. it's also possible

for a crying child to pin her/himself between blankets and bed and smother to death.

It HAS happened.

Just something to think about.

[proud2BlibKansan]

91. Yes I just don't think it's a good idea

[thinkingwoman]

98. You're entitled to your opinion. nt

[jbnow]

101. My mom always use to warn me

that I could smother the baby when I sometimes just laid him on my bed after nursing him, too tired, lazy to take him back to his crib.

One morning I woke up and felt a lump under me and saw this blue being. I started screaming, sure in the haze of waking that I had smothered my son. It only took a few seconds to realize it was this blue teddy bear I had gotten for mothers day and not a smothered infant son.

Still I never did keep my baby in the bed with me after that.

[MuseRider]

14. I did it.

Good grief, how often can you get up at night and sit still somewhere to nurse your baby and still be safe or even awake during the day? It was wonderful once I finally started just putting him next to me and nursing him to sleep.

Parenting would be much easier if we did not all listen to and strictly follow the "experts" and simply did what came naturally for us and our family. After all, isn't that what makes us a family?

[leftchick]

16. MY Baby almost fell out of bed when we did this..

I swear to God an angel woke me to grab him before he fell. He slept in his own crib after that.

:(

[insane_cratic_gal]

28. I always stuck my daughter in the inside

and the bed was against the wall. a blanket tucked down way low in the crack.

When she moved I always woke up, you get really sensitive to it.

[Bjornsdotter]

17. We did it...

...kids are fine. Then again I also breast feed my daughter until SHE was ready to be weaned.

Cheers!

[lapislzi]

34. Bravo!

I did too. I was fortunate to have had flexible working arrangements that enabled me to keep it up for a year.

[MuseRider]

55. I did that too.

Unfortunately my oldest weaned himself when he was 1 and I wanted to nurse him longer. The other nursed until he was 18 months.

[LisaL]

20. There have been cases of children smothered in their sleep

by their sleeping parents. No, there no instinct that is going to prevent this from happening. I do not think it's safe.

[Dora]

27. Parents who choose to co-sleep

Parents who choose to co-sleep are counseled not to do the following:

1) Do not go to sleep with your baby if you drink or do drugs, as these may cause you to sleep more heavily and/or be unresponsive to your baby if it cries or struggles.
2) Do not co-sleep if you have large amounts of fluffy and/or heavy pillows and bedding.
3) Do not co-sleep if you sleep on a waterbed. This is very dangerous as the infant can roll between the water mattress and the frame.
4) Do not co-sleep if either parent is significantly overweight.

These contributing factors will make co-sleeping unsafe. Co-sleeping by itself is not dangerous. My husband and I have happily and successfully used a combination of crib and co-sleeping with our 10-month old son.

Co-sleeping is like driving - there is a right way to do it and a wrong way. If you do it the wrong way, then you increase your risk factors and the likelihood that something bad will happen. And also true with driving, even if you do it the right way that is no guarantee that you will not have an accident down the road. (And that's true even if your child is sleeping by itself in a crib.)

[LisaL]

31. Well, excuse me. Considering that study after study shows

americans become more and more overweight, that pretty much rules a lot of people out for co-sleeping candidates.

[Dora]

33. Well, then, it's a good thing I posted, isn't it!

I'm glad I could share some useful information.

[melv]

67. if the child is safe because of our instincts

then none of these situations would matter.

Granted, these are all common sense assertations for a parent that would choose to co-sleep. But I would say co-sleep has evolved from a historical necessity, not a because it is instinctual.

[insane_cratic_gal]

81. We are the only primate that doesn't

Co-Sleep, It's instinct having an instinctual awareness of where you child is in relation to your body. Same with a cry.. you sleep lighter

Nesting.. it's instinct.

Fight or Flight .. it's instinct

Your child cries your boobs leak.. it's instinct.

We are much more instinctual an animal in our actions then we care to give credit to.

[Dora]

83. The medical/expert establishment has been wrong more than once.

Once upon a time...

Doctors used to say that hormone replacement therapy was the best thing for menopausal women. Then a few years ago they came out and said that women using HRT should stop, and stop immediately. Why? Because studies showed that the risk factors associated with HRT far outweighed the benefits. The doctors had only assumed all along that HRT was harmless.

Doctors also promoted formula feeding to infants because they said that women didn't make enough milk to nourish a newborn. Because "experts" didn't understand the lactation process, they just assumed that breast milk was inadequate, and that formula was better. Today the American Association of Pediatricians recommends breastfeeding for the first year, and optimally for two to three years.

Your argument that co-sleeping evolved out of historical necessity is specious. I'm not a scientist, I'm a poet, but I'll dare to argue that co-sleeping is biologically driven, and humans doing otherwise is simply a reflection of cultural influences, just like obesity, cigarette smoking, and drug use are largely cultural effects.

Can you show me a mammal that doesn't co-sleep?

[mainer]

97. Current longevity is also from cultural influences

Such as clean water, sanitation, and antibiotics.

Saying that cultural influences have all been bad is equally specious.

Back when we were living in caves and everyone was co-sleeping, people lived to about, oh, 21 years.

You're right -- doctors don't know everything. And they're wrong a lot of the time. But to say that co-sleeping is biologically driven is no different to say that a lifespan of 21 is also biologically driven.

[Dora]

171. You're right. So what's your point? n/t

[melv]

186. you are right

there are lots of once upon a times.

That's my arguement. Once upon a time, larger numbers of parents co-slept. You say the need to cosleep is biologically driven; I'll speculate that it may be so for you. For me, my "gut" or "instinct" told me "no way" to sleeping with my child. I wanted to, mind you, because of the popular opinion (in my part of the country) that it somehow brought you closer to your child. But, my "biological urge" (I'll call it that for argument's sake) was screaming to me to not do it.

Now, there are plenty of species that do not co-sleep. Let's not restrict the guidelines of comparison to mammals alone. After all, the DNA design of humans and all other species (including plants)is up to and beyond 90% the same. Therefore, it would be fair, in my opinion to compare and contrast ourselves with almost any species. However, if you do want to limit our comparision only to mammals, then the biological necessity and historical reasons to cosleep.

Biological - mammary glands, i.e., nursing. Cosleeping makes this easier during the night, but what about naptime when the parent doesn't sleep? Do you lay there with your child, waiting for it to wake up and be hungry? If sleeping together at night is instinctual, then it seems to beg that you lay there during the day as well.

Historical and cultural - space constraints (housing in India is often 5 x 7 ft) in housing or safety issues(my guess is a woman in Iraq probably sleeps very near to her children to keep them safe) would warrant a parent cosleeping. With todays bigger and bigger houses, cosleeping in middle class America has "evolved" from a necessity to a choice.


That said, I am enjoying the debate. Thank you for taking the time to post.

[melv]

187. well, you are right, in a sense

there are lots of once upon a times.

That's my arguement. Once upon a time, larger numbers of parents co-slept. You say the need to cosleep is biologically driven; I'll speculate that it may be so for you. For me, my "gut" or "instinct" told me "no way" to sleeping with my child. I wanted to, mind you, because of the popular opinion (in my part of the country) that it somehow brought you closer to your child. But, my "biological urge" (I'll call it that for argument's sake) was screaming to me to not do it.

Now, there are plenty of species that do not co-sleep. Let's not restrict the guidelines of comparison to mammals alone. After all, the DNA design of humans and all other species (including plants)is up to and beyond 90% the same. Therefore, it would be fair, in my opinion to compare and contrast ourselves with almost any species. However, if you do want to limit our comparision only to mammals, then the biological necessity and historical reasons to cosleep.

Biological - mammary glands, i.e., nursing. Cosleeping makes this easier during the night, but what about naptime when the parent doesn't sleep? Do you lay there with your child, waiting for it to wake up and be hungry? If sleeping together at night is instinctual, then it seems to beg that you lay there during the day as well.

Historical and cultural - space constraints (housing in India is often 5 x 7 ft) in housing or safety issues(my guess is a woman in Iraq probably sleeps very near to her children to keep them safe) would warrant a parent cosleeping. With todays bigger and bigger houses, cosleeping in middle class America has "evolved" from a necessity to a choice.


That said, I am enjoying the debate. Thank you for taking the time to post.

[insane_cratic_gal]

29. It's been down for 100's of years

by other cultures. there are kids who suffocate in their own cribs due to blankets or pillows or sids.

I never rolled over on my daughter.

[mainer]

96. And infant mortality has been high for 100's of years

A hundred years ago, people were dying of pneumonia, too.

I think that just because "people have been doing it for 100's of years" doesn't make it better. Or safer.

[progressivebydesign]

21. Are there were issues with SIDS and kids in bed with parents.

And.. do all parents just give up on their sex lives just because they have babies? Doesn't it seem like you suddenly become 'mommy and daddy' and lose all adult intimacy? Just wondering...

[insane_cratic_gal]

30. NO there are Other rooms!

not everything is done in a bed.

Showers, couches a guest room.. use your imagination. Plenty of those co sleeping parents have more kids don't they?

[Dora]

37. We make space for "us" time in another room of the house.

It works quite well.

[cfield]

192. The bedroom is OUR room

And I'm sure when we have a little one, he/she will spend plenty of time in there with us. I already bring in my infant nephew when he wakes up in the mornings to cuddle with him for a few more minutes before I have to fully wake up. My husband usually doesn't mind-unless it's REAL early.
But, for us, our bedroom is our room.
No, we are not prudes. Our sexual encounters occur quite often in other rooms of the house. But the most common time/place for us is in our room, in our bed, usually at bedtime, because that's a time/place we both have available at the same time. With a baby around, I don't think we'll magically be opened to having more opportunity for sex; in fact, I'm sure there will be less opportunity as well as less energy to 'fit it in.' Therefore, our escapades will likely become limited and our bed, near bedtime, will probably be even more commonly used for those encounters.
That's not to say that babyfield won't have a bed in our room, or even be allowed to sleep with us on occasion. I won't know that until the little guy/gal is here. But we won't just put him in bed with us all night every night. However, families that do co-sleep, are free to do so without me saying they shouldn't.
IT DEPENDS ON THE FAMILY AND WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND HOW IT WORKS FOR THEM.
Studies be damned, I won't do or not do something that doesn't feel right or work for me or my child.

[Dora]

207. The bedroom is our room too

But our space limitations being what they are, we must share our room with our son. Hence our need to take our connubial bliss elsewhere.

Neither I nor any co-sleepers in this thread are trying to convert non-co-sleepers into co-sleeping with their children.

They/we are simply trying to share the information that co-sleeping is not the deathtrap that our mothers and in-laws and worried neighbors would have you believe.

Like anything else parents do to raise their children, co-sleeping should be done thoughtfully and with an eye on the right way to do it.

[cfield]

224. I agree with you that it's not about changing minds

or shouldn't be. I/we will not co-sleep. That doesn't mean you or anyone else shouldn't, in my opinion. It just means that we won't. That also doesn't mean that our infant/child won't sleep in our bed with us. I know from experience babysitting my whole life and having my infant nephew over on weekends now that the baby will sleep in our bed from time to time. But the term co-sleeping, to me, refers to having a baby sleep with the parents as a lifestyle. From a few weeks to a few years or more, it's not something that I will do.

When Garrett isn't feeling well, especially, as well as when I'm just tired and I know he will go back to sleep with some coaxing, I put him in bed with me (usually on my chest because I like being able to wrap my arms around him in a big hug) and pat his back. Sometimes we both get to sleep a little longer, others we just rest a while before getting up. I also nap with him. I prefer to keep him on the couch and sleep with him for a nap than putting him in his crib while I sleep on the couch. I love snuggling with him, even though I'm sleeping. Of course, I don't sleep as soundly because my mommy instincts keep me on guard, but I enjoy the closeness with him. And, we will probably still take naps together when he's older and sleeping in a bed. (I love my sleep and thrive on weekend naps!) When he lays in my bed, I'll lay in there too; even when he's 3 or 4 I'll still enjoy our quiet time.
But bedtime will be bedtime, for him and for my own baby when we have one. That's what works for us. For anyone who co-sleeps, I don't care. I don't think it's wrong, or bad. As long as you're safe, and doing what you can to keep the baby safe, enjoy it. Because as many have said and I'm sure we all know, they don't stay little for long and all too soon they'll be too big to sleep with Mommy & Daddy.

[fight4my3sons]

73. No! We co-slept with our first son and went on to have twins

2o months later! There are other rooms in the house :-)

The twins have never co-slept with us. During the first month they slept in a "co-sleeper" which is a little bassinet that attaches to your bed. With my older son already sleeping with us (he was only 20 months old) there wasn't a whole lot of room left in the bed. Also they had colic and it turned out that they only slept in their swings for the first few months - a whole other story! Now they are fine in two cribs pushed up against each other in their own room (they are 19 months old). My older son is in his "big boy" bed in his own room now, but still comes in to our room in the middle of the night (he is three).

[Left Is Write]

76. No, we didn't just give up on our sex lives.

Though the early post-partum months and weeks, and sometimes breastfeeding, are libido-killers anyway.

My son was conceived when my co-sleeping, still nursing daughter was only 15 months old. ;)

[One_of_8]

95. No, parents get creative

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say that as a new parent, sex was really about the last thing I wanted to do. As a brand new mom, I was focused on that little infant 24/7. Sex - get the hell away from me! My hormones were all over the place, getting back down to pre-pregnancy levels, I felt like a milk machine, and I just did not desire to have sex.

Not to mention that I was bone-tired! It's freakin hard work those first few weeks or months, while your little one is adjusting to life out of the womb, and wakes up every two hours for feedings.

Once things settled down, then my partner and I began to rework the sexual part of our relationship. When you have a baby, your entire life changes and it never returns to "normal." The first rule is flexibility. So you find that you have a few minutes of time to yourselves when Jr. is napping - you make the most of it. Or you arrange to have a date night once a week or so, and let Grandma watch Jr., leaving you and hubby time to enjoy some adult time.

[gulliver]

22. We did it...divorced now...would do it differently.

My ex and I did it, and I would do it again. However, looking back, I would make sure that there was some way to spend quiet time with my then-wife. Also, if having the kid(s) in bed with you interferes with your sleep (worrying about suffocating them or getting little feet in your face in the middle of a good dream), then I would not suggest it. People need sleep and couples need time to themselves. Be careful.

[ourbluenation]

23. My daughter slept with us for no other reason than it was practical.

I was breastfeeding and it's cold at night and I didn't wanna get out of my warm bed. When I stopped breastfeeding she still slept with us because when she would wake up crying it was cold at night and I didn't wanna get out of my warm bed.

I'm lazy - she's fine. All is well.

[Debi]

24. I can probably count on one hand how many times my son slept w/me

But he was born w/a disability and had surgery when he wat 10 hours old, spent six weeks in the hospital (w/me by his side or holding him) and when we finally got home all he wanted to do was sleep w/out being disturbed. He only cried when he was wet or wanted to eat and then back in his own bed in his own room to sleep. Only when it stormed and he was scared did he cry out or not want to go back to bed (and even now, 17 years later) he and I will sometimes end up in the living room he on one couch me on the other if there's a really bad storm.

I don't really have an opinion on the subject, it just rarely happened in our home.

[lapislzi]

25. I did it until my daughter was 4

Then she went to a big girl bed "because that's what you do when you go to school." She still loves to be in bed with me (she's 11 now). We'll hang out there on a Friday night, watch a movie, and just fall asleep. She seems normal enough, given her red-diaper parenting :evilgrin:

Again, I can't imagine why some people are so hung up on what happens in other people's bedrooms. I wouldn't dream of telling someone how to raise their child (unless they asked me, and even then I might think twice. I can only tell you what worked for me).

[AngryAmish]

32. My take on this

1. I don't have kids so don't listen to me

and

2. I drink too much to be safely in a bed with a baby.

[Ilsa]

136. "I drink too much to be safely in a bed with a baby." -- that may be

why some families expoerienced fatalities. There are safe ways to cosleep, but use of alcohol or any drugs (recreational, OTC or Rx) that diminish judgment is a no-no.

We still co-sleep. No biggie. My little ones love the feeling of extra security at night. We're a close family.

[AngryAmish]

143. Good for you

I think if I had a baby it would be great to be in bed with them. If sober. If I have a child, if drinking, I would be on the couch.

[warrens]

35. My daughter slept with us til she was about one year old

Then we had a small bed she could sleep in next to our bed (she basically climbed from one to the other for a few months) then she moved into a real bed in her own room when she was two.

I never thought about it. It made everybody happy, what's the big deal?

[mindfulNJ]

38. hmmm

seems like it would also be a foolproof birth control method :)

[insane_cratic_gal]

39. nope other rooms in the house

and people who co sleep.. do end up pregnant all over again!

/sigh

I guess you'll have to get out of the bed and onto the counter.. hellooooooooo naughty side.

My point is Mattress does not equal birth control.

[fight4my3sons]

75. nope

I had my twins 20 months after my first son - there are other rooms in the house :-)

[npincus]

40. not worth the risk

I saw an HBO documentary (one of the "Autopsy" series) that had a mom who had, unknowingly, suffocated (2) children- years apart- whild co-sleeping. The woman was quite heavy. This was the evaluation of Dr. Michael Baden who had examined all the forensic evidence and documentation on both nfant deaths. The woman had requested that Dr. Baden study the sudden deaths of her children and she was devasted by his findings. Co-sleeping is not worth the risk. Even a one in a million event of accidental death, I wouldn't do it.

There is an infant bed which attaches to the side of the bed for a mother who wants to breastfeed her baby without getting up and out of bed. I didn't have room for this device in our bedroom, so my daughter slept in another room which has about 12 feet away from us (we had a small apartment). My husband is Japanese so I know all about how children sleep with parents through early childhood. Interestingly, my husband was the one who nixed the idea of our daughter sleeping with us beause he was worried about rolling over on her and crushing her in his sleep. He's sort of a big guy.

Friends of mine have been sleeping with their infant- i advised them about the risks, but they are not worried.

[insane_cratic_gal]

44. It's one of rules

If your excessively over weight, you don't sleep with your child,

If you drink, to take drugs you don't sleep with your child.


If you suffer from night fits excessive movements don't sleep with your child.

Most people do what comes natural for them. Allowing my daughter to sleep with me felt natural, thus I did.


It's a common misconception and it's been posted and rebutted already in this thread.

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. A friend told me when I was pregnent

that western man is the only primate that doesn't sleep with their children.

My son slept with us for longer then I care to admit and he's just fine.

[northzax]

127. we're also the only primate

that makes computers, performs C-sections to save babies that would otherwise die, provide medical care for the sick and injured, read, write, play soccer, build houses, use fire to generate heat, shall I keep going?

[DoYouEverWonder]

161. Humans all over the world do all those things

but it is mostly in the US where sleeping with your children has become taboo. The Europeans, Latins, Asians and most of the rest of the 'civilized' world still sleep with their children.

[LisaL]

201. Humans all over the world do all kinds of things.

Doesn't mean it should be done here.

[SW FL Dem]

145. Same here

My son slept in a bassinet next to the bed for the first 3 months then we moved him to his crib. He slept just fine in his crib until we had some major life changes. My son started crawling into our bed for comfort and we let him. He needed us. We bought a king sized bed and let him know that he was always welcome when he wanted to snuggle. Eventually, he decided that he liked sleeping alone. The kid is now a very well-adjusted teenager(as well adjusted as any teen can be). We are a very close family and I don't regret our decision to co-sleep.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. I don't know if I would do that with my baby

I would want him/her to have plenty of space to spread out (if they're like me they'd like their space in bed) and I'd want to be able to snuggle and do other things not for babies eyes with my husband. :blush: Going to bed would be my time away from children and be with my husband. My cousin and his wife used to do that with their little boy when he was younger. Now he's five and sleeps in his own bed and my mother told me they were thinking of having another child while he's still young but old enough. (I'm not a parent either but I plan to be one someday hopefully :blush: )

[Left Is Write]

74. Those "snuggle things" with your husband...

You learn to get creative when there's an infant in the house. ;)

For me, as long as I was breastfeeding there was no chance that going to bed would be "time away" from the baby anyway. Sleeping with the babies and allowing them to nurse on demand was infinitely preferable and more restful than getting up several times a night.

The two youngest ones are 6 and 4 now, both sleeping in their own beds in their own rooms, and they even go to bed early enough to allow my husband and me some evening time together.

[Arugula Latte]

87. Amen.

We did the same thing. I couldn't imagine leaving that warm bed to get up and take the crying baby out of the crib, sit up, wait til he (and she) fell asleep, transfer them back to a crib (which always seemed to wake them up again, anyway), and then try to get back to sleep myself.

[Solly Mack]

48. The beauty of it is: It's NONE of anyone's business if your child

sleeps in the bed with you - and the added bonus is: Other people's opinions don't count for shit. They don't get a say in your life.

Whatever a person feels comfortable with ...

It's silly and sad that people need to cling to the opinion of an "expert" though to validate their own decisions and choices. Or that it has to be a "movement" for people to embrace some idea that might cause others to feel uncomfortable. Almost as if people need an (pretentious and phony) "exclusive" factor to justify something as natural and normal as breastfeeding or sharing your bed with your child.

Someone has to write a book, a support group must be formed so people can share their justifications and "feelings" of being "different" - for some of the most mundane matters in life ....so people can feel as if they're doing something bold, daring, or original...

when all they are really doing is the exact same things that people have been doing for centuries...

[seabeyond]

141. excellent point, you are exactly right

my first child i was tlaking to doctor when he was about 4 months. i dont know what it was but i said, i have been told.......

she looked me in the eyes and said, your the mama, you know what to do. dont listen to everyone else. you know best. i have held to that, and has served all us well. doesnt mean i dont lesson to all sorts of different views, but ultimately, it is my decision with my children.

[Solly Mack]

208. My SIL would come to me with her first child - always asking

"What should I do?" (my training is with children 0-5) and I finally had to tell her the same thing. "You're the mom. Trust yourself.Ask 10 people, get 9 opinions" (and none of them more informed than you about your own child)

Raising kids is a progressive learning curve - it gets easier with the next one because you trust yourself more about what's what. It's a lesson that should be carried to all aspects of life. Trust yourself.

[FooFootheSnoo]

51. I'm split on the issue

Our daughter is 4 and has just recently started sleeping in her own bed. She was one when she started sleeping with us. I've had a hard time getting her into her own bed. She still crawls in bed with us at about 4am, but we're making progress!!
I really enjoyed having her sleep with us. Most of the time it was a very sweet experience. However, it did negatively affect our sex life. I know there are other rooms, etc. But, my husband has custody of his 12 year old daughter and we live in a small house so most of the time "other rooms" were not an option for us. On the weekends stepdaughter went to her mom's house, we could manage. However, counters, couches, floors,etc are no substitute for a bed.
If a new parent asked my opinion, I'd tell them that their sex life would be negatively affected, but that having little one next to them at night would almost make up for it.

[linazelle]

105. And I think many parents who let their children sleep with them

go ahead with the sex when the think the child is asleep which is why I think this can be very damaging to the child.

My sister and brother in law let their youngest sleep with them until she was about 6 and I believe that it affected her. I believe she saw or heard things that she should not have--not that she was abused, just too young for the unintended exposure to her parents' intimacy.

[elsiesummers]

154. I don't see anything wrong with that...

While I personally can't imagine co-sleeping because I really like my space while I sleep...in fact my husband is a hugger and I'm always pushing him away so I can sleep, even after many years, unless it's cold...

But I don't see anything wrong with co-sleeping, including the idea of sex while the child is sleeping, because it all seems pretty natural to me.

As a kid I always crawled in bed with my parents on the weekend when my Dad was there and it seemed like a special treat.

I simply know myself and know I wouldn't be comfortable, though a bassinet or a separate attached bed would be fine if the child was under two, IMO.

So, for example, if the bassinette was in the same room and the parents were having sex in the bed (quietly) I just don't see what would be wrong with that.

I'm considering having a child so this is the sort of question I find interesting.

I have close friends who don't cosleep, but either the mom takes a bath with her child or the father showers with the child and while I doubt this is typical I can't see anything wrong with this either.

I think our society can be pretty buttoned up, probably to our own emotional detriment (as human beings) making things that are natural seem "bad" or taboo and resulting in all sorts of hang ups and fixations.

[elsiesummers]

157. But six does seem old for sex in the same room...

not that it didn't happen for hundreds, or thousands, of years.

But then, people did get married when they were teenagers, and a young man actually could support his family then...so our world is definitely becoming more unnatural, whether for better or for worse.

I often think the level of delayed adulthood (the increasingly unnatural timeline for maturity) in our society results in a strange situation of adult children still reliant on parents and with no possibility of the financial wherewithall to support themselves. At 21, many today are almost completely financially reliant upon their parents, yet they are well past the age when most start having sex, drink and live away from parents. It is nearly impossible for most to get a good (self supporting) job without a college degree.

There is something really mixed up about this - and a lot of it has to do with a norm of an overly long period of classroom education.

[PunkPop]

61. I'm not sure it harms the child one way or the other

but I need space when I sleep. My 3 do just fine in their own beds. I get enough of them when they are awake.

[AspenRose]

69. A hybrid combination works for us

Our son sleeps in his crib in another room from bedtime until about 4 or 5 am, when my husband is getting up for work. If baby wakes up during that time for the first nursing of the day, DH brings him to me and I nurse him in bed, where we both fall asleep. And since DH is gone, there's more room in the bed.

Oh, and baby doesn't quite sleep through the night yet (he's teething) so if he cries (we have a monitor) either I or DH will comfort him until he falls asleep again and then back in the crib he goes.

If it's one of those nights where he's TOTALLY inconsolable, I will nurse him for comfort in the bed until he falls asleep, then put him back in the crib.

That's what works for us (so far). Everyone's different, and every child is different.

[ohio_liberal]

72. My daughter is 4

She's never slept a night by herself. In fact, all of my kids co-slept with me for at least a part of the first 4 years. It worked out really well for everyone. I was one of those rare parents who never was sleep-deprived. And I never gave a happy shizzit what other people thought. :D

[Citizen Jane]

77. For those of you interested in research on co-sleeping

You may want to have a look at the following page which summarizes a lot of the research on co-sleeping. Don't let section 1 bog you down, it gets much more readable as it goes on.

http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/culturalarticle.html

Cultural Influences on Infant Sleep

Cultural Influences on Infant and Childhood Sleep Biology, and The Science that Studies It: Toward a More Inclusive Paradigm
James J.McKenna Ph.D.


Professor of Anthropology and Director,
Mother-Baby Behavioral Sleep Laboratory
University of Notre Dame

Published In Sleep and Breathing In Children: A Developmental Approach JLoughlin, Jcarroll, CMarcus, (Eds.)
Marcell Dakker 2000, pages 199-230

[Dora]

210. This is a great link - everyone interested in this debate should read. n/t

[chefgirl]

78. Different families, different needs

I think its a wonderful thing for parents to sleep with their kids, as long as it works for everyone involved.

I never slept with my son in my bed because I've always hated sleeping with anyone, and that includes my ex husband. I NEED my space or I just cant sleep well. It was hard enough learning to sleep with my husband, so having my son in the same bed would not have worked in my house.

I did, however, keep my son in a portable crib beside my bed for about the first month or so, until he began to sleep almost 8 hours at a stretch.

I breastfed too, and keeping him right beside me accomplished the same thing, insofar as me being able to get my sleep and him not having to wake up in the middle of the night and feel neglected.

When he would wake up, all I had to do was pick him up out of his portable crib, bring him into my bed with me and when he was done feeding, all I had to do was put him back in his little portable, and I could roll right back over and go back to sleep.

It's something to think about for people who are uncomfortable about sleeping with their kids, for whatever reason, but also dont want to feel they are neglecting their needs.

-chef-

[tenshi816]

79. Both my sons slept with us almost from birth.

We loved it. It especially helped my husband bond with his boys, because he used to get them ready for bed and then just lie in bed gazing in awe at the little people he helped to create.

It just seemed like a natural thing to have a baby sleep with its parents. I've never cared what method other parents use to get a good night's sleep because it's none of my business, nor do I criticize anyone else's decision. I know what worked for us though.

[rucky]

80. America's finally catching up with the rest of the world. n/t

[insane_cratic_gal]

82. Even Dr Sears Agrees

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T071000.asp#T071006

1. Babies sleep better. Sleepsharing babies usually go to sleep and stay asleep better. Being parented to sleep at the breast of mother or in the arms of father creates a healthy go-to-sleep attitude. Baby learns that going to sleep is a pleasant state to enter (one of our goals of nighttime parenting).

2. Mothers sleep better. Many mothers and infants are able to achieve nighttime harmony: babies and mothers get their sleep cycles in sync with one another.

Martha notes: "I would automatically awaken seconds before my baby would. When the baby started to squirm, I would lay on a comforting hand and she would drift back to sleep. Sometimes I did this automatically and I didn't even wake up."

7. Reduces the risk of SIDS. New research is showing what parents the world over have long suspected: infants who sleep safely nestled next to parents are less likely to succumb to the tragedy of SIDS. Yet, because SIDS is so rare (.5 to 1 case per 1,000 infants), this worry should not be a reason to sleep with your baby. (For in depth information on the science of sleepsharing and the experiments showing how sleep benefits a baby's nighttime physiology. (See SIDS)
Mother acts as pacemaker. A major part of my sleep-sharing hypothesis is that mother can act as a breathing pacemaker for her baby. Picture what happens when mother and baby sleep side by side. Mother acts like a breathing pacemaker for her baby during sleep. Together they develop what we call "sleep harmony." Both members of the sleeping pair have simultaneous sleep stages, perhaps not perfectly attuned and not all night long, but close enough that they are mutually aware of each other's presence without disturbing each other's sleep.


There is all kinds of information listed there to remove the "misinformation" that's been repeatedly brought up.

I tend to agree with those here, you do what you feel is right for your child.
But having followed this method and I had to defend it ALL of the time, I'm glad to see so many others finally admitting to it. I hope one day people will just accept it vs people like myself trying to defend it.

[Left Is Write]

88. As a co-sleeper and extended nurser...

I agree. I've had to defend both practices many times, against people who thought one or both were downright weird or wrong.

[Ms. Toad]

104. We didn't co-sleep

But one of us usually dozed in our daughter's bed until she went to sleep. We were repeatedly warned by busybodies that doing so would create a child that could never fall asleep alone - that she should be left to cry herself to sleep. We ignored them and eventually, in her own time, she went to sleep alone without ever being forced to cry herself to sleep. As noted - for the child it makes bedtime a pleasant time, not something to be dreaded.

I also did extended nursing (until 18 months) and had to fight quite a few battles with my mother and mother-in-law who were quite certain she would starve since she didn't have anything other than mother's milk until she was 9 months old.

[Nay]

84. We did this with our son 23 years ago with the doc's blessing.

It was not a big deal back then. Wonder what happened in between to make this come up again?

BTW, the kid is happy, healthy, well-adjusted, independent, and nice.

[BamaGirl]

89. Two of my babies slept with me

but my husband was deployed both times. I wouldn't have wanted him in bed with them...he sleeps like a rock and hogs the bed. Anyway, one of them was really sick when she was born, and it was better to keep her close. My son had hip dyspasia. He was completely miserable until his harness came off, and it was much easier to keep him in bed with me. Otherwise I would have been up 50 times a night with both of them.

[wildeyed]

90. Whatever works for your family.

There is no indication in the study I read that various sleep arrangements make much difference long term in the development of the child. So do what works for your family. :shrug:

I do get tired of parties on either side of this issue sniping at each other, and in my experience, the attachment parents can be just as vicious and judgmental as the more traditionally minded. They all want to believe that they are doing something exceptional for their child by either sleeping with or not sleeping with their child. The traditionals say that the attachment kids will be too dependent. The attachments say that the traditional kids will be insecure and emotionally cold. :yawn:

Personally, I did a little of everything. I co-slept on some nights with fussy newborns who wouldn't go to sleep any other way, or sometimes I lay down to nurse and fell asleep with the baby that way, but I did put them in their crib when I could. I never could listen to my babies cry for very long, so the 'cry it out' route wasn't for me, either.

An observation, nearly every kid I know who co-sleeps has issues with sleep down the line. Certainly this is not true for all families, but I have know quite a few three year olds who still want to nurse three and four times a night. They have very tired mommies.

[Cats Against Frist]

92. My son is four, and he just moved to his own bed

He's slept with me, almost exclusively, since he was born. Sometimes, both he and I and my boyfriend (his bio father), sleep together, but often times, my boyfriend just passes out, or sleeps on the couch.

I don't think there's ANYTHING wrong with it, and I cannot even imagine what the ninnies have come up with, to discourage it, but it has to do with something sexual, I'm sure. Those people are P-E-R-V-E-R-T-E-D, plain and simple. What kind of pre-occupied freak do you have to be to come up with something like that? Puritainism has gone so far that a parent and child can't even snuggle together?

The other argument is routine and independence. I think a little child can do OK, by getting those kinds of things in other ways. My son is great, and brilliant, and well-adjusted. People against it can take a flying leap.

[One_of_8]

93. It's not one size fits all

Each parent and each baby are different, and so for some, co-sleeping is going to be great for all concerned, and for others, it might not work.

I tried co-sleeping with my infant son, but he didn't seem to like it. So instead, he slept first in a bassinet, and then in his crib, next to my bed. I personally did not want him sleeping in an entirely different room, especially in infanthood. I liked waking up to listen to him breathing, it reassured me he was all right.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having your infant or young child sleep with you. No matter how you do it, there will be an adjustment period when the child switches to his or her first full-size bed. My son slept happily in his crib, but when I got him a twin bed at age 3, he had some transition issues. So I had to lay down with him to help him go to sleep. No biggie. He's 7 now, and does well in school, is very social, and I don't think he's been affected negatively by the sleeping arrangements of his early youth.

I just don't get the big deal over having your infant sleep with you. Why does that freak so many Americans out? I really think a lot of it is based on feeling that moms can get "too close" to their children, and cut the husband out of their affection. In my own experience, that certainly was not a problem.

[mainer]

94. Babies who sleep alone are better sleepers in childhood

I recall that there was recent research that showed that babies who were put to bed in their own cribs slept more deeply and for longer periods of time by age one and thereafter. Also, that they had fewer problems getting to sleep and staying asleep throughout childhood. The theory is that babies who learn to "put themselves to sleep" aren't as dependent on others to soothe them into falling asleep.

I have two sons who were terrific sleepers, and they both had their own cribs. Had I shared a bed with them, I never would have gotten any sleep myself -- and I was working 80 hour work weeks.

My sister-in-law, on the other hand, believed in the "family bed" theory. Her kids refused to sleep in their own beds until they were SEVEN and mom and dad NEVER got any time alone.

They are now divorced.

[Left Is Write]

100. Can you find that research?

In my own experience, this has not proven to be true, but I would like to see the data.

[mainer]

248. Here's the research -- from PubMed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11835147&dopt=Abstract

1: Dev Psychobiol. 2002 Jan;40(1):14-22. Related Articles, Links

The sleep of co-sleeping infants when they are not co-sleeping: evidence that co-sleeping is stressful.

Hunsley M, Thoman EB.

Biobehavioral Sciences Graduate Degree Program, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06269-4154, USA.

Co-sleeping proponents consider the practice to be "natural" and a potential protection against sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS); others consider the practice of an infant sleeping in the parents' bed for prolonged periods at night to place an infant at risk for harm or death. For this study, co-sleeping was investigated from a different perspective, that is, as a significant early experience to investigate as it may have implications for the infant's development. The sleep of 101 normal, full-term infants was recorded nonintrusively in the home for 24 hr periods when they were 5 weeks and 6 months old. Infants were assigned to three groups: short-term co-sleepers, long-term co-sleepers, and non-co-sleepers. Their sleep states and wakefulness were compared at the two ages and over age. At 5 weeks and 6 months, the long-term co-sleeping infants differed significantly from the non-co-sleepers on a number of measures: At 5 weeks, they showed more quiet sleep and longer bouts of quiet sleep; and at 6 months, they also showed less active sleep, fewer arousals in active sleep, and less wakefulness. Each of these differences indicates a markedly lower arousal level in the long-term co-sleeping infants. This sleep pattern has been repeatedly found to be an indicator of stress. We infer that a major source of stress for these infants is the experience of sleep disturbance documented for infants when they were co-sleeping. Based on extensive evidence for long-term effects of early stress, we conclude that co-sleeping should have significant implications for infants' neurobehavioral development. Copyright 2002 John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

PMID: 11835147

[Mutley]

99. Every family is different. There can be drawbacks to letting your kids

sleep in your bed.

For example, my niece slept with my sister for three years. When my sister wanted her to start sleeping in her own room, my niece refused. It's been a long battle for five years, and my niece only sleeps in her room about half the time.

I know from reading this thread that kids sleeping with parents can be perfectly okay, I just wanted to outline one situation when it wasn't.

[boston bean]

102. My son would fall asleep with us until he was 7.

We moved him into his own bed every night after he went to sleep. I loved having him near me when he was falling asleep.

It was also a good thing, because that is how I found out that he had a seizue disorder that occured during early stages of sleep. He has been on medication since 5 and doing wonderfully, he is now twelve.

[mainer]

106. Infant deaths and co-sleeping... Article #1:

(edited to shorten article excerpt)

SECTION: HEALTH & FITNESS; Healthy Kids Column; Pg. 3

LENGTH: 598 words

HEADLINE: BED SHARING BOOSTS RISK OF SIDS

BYLINE: D.R. Bradley Thach

BODY:
It's something that seems so simple: Infants should sleep alone in their own beds.

Bed sharing is simply not safe. Several of our studies at Washington University School of Medicine and St. Louis Children's Hospital reveal that infants who share a bed with siblings or adults are at a greater risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.

Historically, some cultures have believed that bed sharing increases bonding and encourages breast-feeding, and bed-sharing advocates cite those benefits when explaining why they bring the baby into bed.

But those benefits hardly outweigh the drawback: death.

Our studies, along with others in the United States and abroad, have documented a number of factors that substantially increase the risk of SIDS for infants. The risks are highest for infants who sleep on the stomach, sleep on unsafe surfaces (such as a sofa) or share a bed with adults or siblings. These practices are particularly risky when the infant is less than 100 days old.

(snip)

Despite the decreased SIDS rate in the past decade, the racial disparity in SIDS deaths continues to increase.

My colleagues and I reviewed the death-scene information concerning infant deaths in St. Louis City and St. Louis County between Jan. 1, 1994, and Dec. 31, 1997.

The study revealed that bed-sharing deaths were nearly twice as common in African-American infants (67 percent) as in other infants (35 percent).

(snip)

But advice on bed sharing has been low on the list. Our findings reveal that the danger of bed sharing needs to be added to the top of the list when it comes to preventing SIDS.

Dr. Bradley Thach, a Washington University physician at St. Louis Children's Hospital, is a national expert on SIDS prevention.

[mainer]

107. Infant deaths, article #2

Philadelphia Daily News

October 6, 2004 Wednesday 4STAR EDITION

SECTION: LOCAL; Pg. 07

LENGTH: 668 words

HEADLINE: City wakes up to infant co-sleeping danger;
2 MORE DEATHS TRIGGER ACTION

BYLINE: JILL PORTER

BODY:
NOW THEY GET IT.

City officials called a hasty press conference yesterday to warn the public that sleeping with an infant puts the baby at risk of sudden death.

Because, since Saturday, two more babies have died in Philadelphia while sleeping with other people.

The city had been making plans for a bigger announcement next week to launch a public-awareness campaign about the dangers of co-sleeping. But Managing Director Phil Goldsmith said the latest deaths convinced him the public had to be alerted immediately.

"We could not in good conscience wait when we had a couple of instances in the last couple of days," Goldsmith said. "We have an obligation as a city to bring it to public attention."

(snip)

City Health Commissioner John Domzalski announced that 68 infants had died in the city while co-sleeping in the past 18 months, a figure far in excess of the number provided to me previously by his own department.

A Health Department spokesman said afterwards that had been a "misstatement" and that it included infant deaths that did not occur while co-sleeping.

The actual number of fatalities that occurred during co-sleeping in the past 18 months is 48, the spokesman said, a figure which I've reported previously.

(more to article)

[Terran]

108. 'cultural distaste'?

Maybe it's because I'm not married (to a woman) and have no kids, but I don't get it. What would people find "distasteful" about this practice? To the point of being ashamed to admit you do it, even?? Ridiculous.

[mainer]

110. Infant deaths and co-sleeping #3

I just think it's only responsible to post information that could, indeed, be life-saving.

Here's what the research shows on infant mortality and co-sleeping. It's strong enough for the American Academy of Pediatrics to recommend against it:

---------


St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Missouri)

October 10, 2005 Monday
THIRD EDITION

SECTION: NEWS; Pg. A1

LENGTH: 847 words

HEADLINE: Never share bed with baby PEDIATRICIANS GROUP TAKES STRONGER STANCE TO PREVENT SIDS

BYLINE: By Deborah L. Shelton ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH Kim Bell of the Post-Dispatch contributed to this report.

BODY:


To reduce the risk of sudden infant death syndrome, babies should be placed in their cribs to sleep, not their parents' beds, says the American Academy of Pediatrics.

"The recommendations are very straightforward and clear: Babies should not sleep in the same bed that their parents are sleeping in," said Dr. James Kemp, associate professor of pediatrics at St. Louis University and an internationally known SIDS researcher.

The new recommendations take a stronger stance on bed sharing than the group's previous recommendations, issued in 2000, which said allowing a baby to sleep in an adult bed can be dangerous "in some circumstances."

(snip)

Death rates from SIDS, overall, have fallen over the past decade. Even so, more babies die from SIDS than from any other cause during the first month of life.

Additionally, deaths from accidental suffocation have climbed. Kemp did a study that reported 120 infant suffocations in St. Louis city and county in four years.

(snip)

Kemp's research, published in the October 2003 journal Pediatrics, found that babies who sleep in an adult bed risk suffocation as much as 40 times the rate for babies who sleep in cribs.

Black, American Indian and Native Alaskan children have death rates from SIDS that are two to three times above average.

[indie_voter]

118. Cribs can be just as dangerous

Children have suffocated from the crib bumpers, from large stuffed animals, heavy blankets, and way back when from the slots (a baby would be able to stick his head through, strangle while trying to get loose)

So the crib manufacturers put out a huge PR blitz to teach people crib safety.

Co-sleeping has it's dangers, a baby can't sleep with huge comforters, lots of pillows, etc. The beds need to be made safe by removing all large pillows, no huge comforters, etc. The bed isn't going to be comfortable for an adult but if one wants to sleep with their child, it is a small price to pay.

There are co-sleeping safety precautions just as there are crib safety precautions.

What worked for us was a futon on the floor with just me and the baby. No comforters, one small pillow for me.

The adult who is sleeping with a child should NOT drink, smoke or take drugs.

Some co-sleeping tips

# Always place your baby on his or her back to sleep to reduce the risk of SIDS.
# Always leave your child's head uncovered while sleeping.
# Make sure your bed's headboard and footboard don't have openings or cutouts that could trap your baby's head.
# Make sure your mattress fits snugly in the bed frame, so that your baby won't become trapped in between the frame and the mattress.
# Don't place a baby to sleep in an adult bed alone.
# Don't use pillows, comforters, quilts, and other soft or plush items on the bed.
# Don't drink or use medications or drugs that may keep you from waking and may cause you to roll over on and therefore suffocate your baby.
# Don't place your bed near draperies or blinds where your child could be strangled by cords.

source: http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sleep/cosleeping.html

There are bassinets which fit against the bed, so the baby isn't in the same bed but is very close by, one side open for the mother to reach the baby fast.

FWIW, some of these studies on co-sleeping safety are funded by crib manufacturers.

I would like to see a study where the safety of the co-sleepers bed was analyzed against the safety of the crib. In other words, if both a crib and bed are unsafe, how do the stats match? How about a safe bed vs safe crib?

[mainer]

119. The studies have been done.

I can point out literally HUNDREDS of articles on lexis-nexis, from around the country, showing horrifying statistics. Below is another one.

How many dead babies does it take to make people question their so-called instincts?

------------


The Associated Press State & Local Wire


March 30, 2003, Sunday, BC cycle

SECTION: State and Regional

LENGTH: 839 words

HEADLINE: Doctors say accidental suffocations on the rise

DATELINE: COLUMBIA, S.C.

BODY:
More infants were killed in 2001 in South Carolina because a loved one accidentally rolled over them while they were sleeping than were killed in fires or car wrecks.

Pediatric experts say overlays - the official term for the accidental suffocations - are becoming a major health risk for babies in this state.

"We have an awful lot of babies dying on the couch, sleeping with someone who shouldn't be there," said Greenwood pediatrician H. Gratin Smith. "I think it's significant."

Dr. Clay Nichols, a pathologist at Palmetto Health Richland, says the problem is growing nationwide.

(snip)

South Carolina health officials started to track overlays in 1993 when the State Law Enforcement Division formed a Child Fatality Review Board.

In 2001 in South Carolina, parents or children accidentally suffocated 11 infants by overlaying them, SLED said. Only accidental drownings with 24 deaths claimed more children in 2001.

[indie_voter]

120. My question is were the parents practicing SAFE co-sleeping?

Were they drunk? Were they on meds? Was their bed safe (no pillows, comforters, etc)?

Babies die in unsafe cribs AND they die in unsafe beds.

Is co-sleeping on the rise? If so, are people aware of safe co-sleeping habits (bed safety AND parental no alcohol/meds/no smoking ).

What about the babies who die in unsafe cribs? Should cribs be abolished and a completely different sleeping arrangement invented?

Co-sleeping (just like crib sleeping) can be done safely.

If a person is very large or rolls over in their sleep or is a heavy sleeper or likes their alcohol, perhaps a side car bassinet is the answer.

[mainer]

123. The numbers still speak for themselves

From the article cited earlier:


"Kemp's research, published in the October 2003 journal Pediatrics, found that babies who sleep in an adult bed risk suffocation as much as 40 times the rate for babies who sleep in cribs."

It makes no mention of whether the cribs were unsafe. It takes all cribs and beds and compares them.

as much as FORTY TIMES THE RISK OF SUFFOCATION!

Maybe some of those cribs were faulty. Maybe some of those co-sleeping parents were overweight.

The difference in mortality, though, still astounds.

[indie_voter]

126. How many of the beds were unsafe with respect to the crib?

It makes a huge difference to the study if 40 times more cribs were safe (no bumpers, etc) than the beds (a normal adult bed is NOT safe for a baby, people need to be educated on co-sleeping safely, not just plunk the baby in bed with them without taking in to account adult sleep surroundings and habits (booze, drugs, smoking). More people are educated in crib safety than co-sleeping safety).

I would like to see a study on mortality with equal controls, i.e., safe beds (this includes sober non-smoking non obese parents) vs safe cribs and unsafe cribs vs unsafe beds (including drunk/sedated/smoking parents).

Not everyone should co-sleep, but there are ways to do a hybrid with sidecar cribs/bassinets.

[mainer]

128. A controlled study is highly unlikely

Considering the already-compiled numbers, no respected scientist would feel comfortable assigning a "bed" group, when the raw data shows he may be condemning those babies to a 40X higher mortality.

It's like telling one group of test subjects, "You take drug A, the others take drug B. But i gotta tell you, preliminary stats show you have a 40X higher chance of dying."

By your strict criteria, you get to control EVERYTHING about the bed-sharers. That is unrealistic. The vast majority of Americans (and up to 30% are now co-sleeping with babies) are not going to be diligent about following your checklist. The vast majority of Americans are not diligent about anything. some of them don't even know if they're restless sleepers.

The advice given by the American Academy of Pediatrics is really the most sensible they can give, considering the challenges of demanding "co-sleeping" perfection.

[indie_voter]

134. Studies

Some basic information on the state of the crib/beds should be known when these deaths happen, it is part of the crime scene.

How many of these people who rolled on their babies were obese? were drunk? How many of these beds had large pillows? How about the crib deaths? How many were suffocated with a toy? with a blanket? with a bumper?

What is the ratio of safe cribs vs safe beds in this study?

What IS the raw data?

Part of the raw data should include the state of the bed and the crib. From there you can compare the safe beds (no pillows, sober parents, etc) vs the safe cribs. You don't have to set up unsafe conditions, which is ridiculous.

I've yet to see a breakdown, which is what I am asking for.

FWIW, here is a link to a Notre Dame professor who studies infant/mother sleep.


http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/director.html

[LisaL]

194. Are you suggesting that if a crib is unsafe, the babies

should continue to sleep in it, or what? Every time a baby dies in an unsafe crib, the parents sue the manufacturer, so the safety issue can be corrected. Who are you going to sue if you smother your baby in your sleep?

[indie_voter]

203. No I am not

I am suggesting people make sure which ever choice they make, they provide a safe environment.

an unsafe crib doesn't mean defective, which is the manufacturers fault. If a family co-sleeps and the bed collapses, and it was found the bed was defective, this is the manufacturers fault too. Both families could sue the manufacturer of the defective product.

An unsafe crib environment is one filled with toys, a mobile hanging over head, heavy blankets, bumpers, etc. This is unsafe, crib manufacturers warn people against this.

You can't sue a crib manufacturer if your child is smothered by a blanket, bumper, a huge pooh or hit by a mobile. However the safety issues can be corrected, by not putting such items in or near the crib.

Nor can you sue anybody if you put your baby in an adult bed which hasn't been baby proofed and the baby is smothered by a pillow, blanket, parent, etc.

A typical adult bed environment is NOT safe for a child. However this, just as with a crib, can be corrected.

If a family decides to co-sleep then they must educate themselves on co-sleeping safety and make sure the environment is safe.

This means the bed might not be comfortable for an adult. No feather beds, no fluffy pillows, no down comforters, etc. The parent can't drink, can't smoke, take pain killers, etc while co-sleeping.

Just as a crib can be made safe for a baby, a family bed can be too.

I co-slept with my infants (just me and my infant, my husband slept alone with the first one. When we had our second, he slept with our toddler) on a hard futon on the floor, no rugs on the floor in case the baby rolled on the floor and smothered on shag. I had very thin Cotton blanket with tiny (pinprick) holes for me, no pillows. It wasn't comfortable. My My kids are now 4 and 6, so thankfully that stage has long gone.

Regardless of choice, a parent must educate themselves.

[Coexist]

168. Stats differ by study - manipulated to favor the preferred outcome

Number of U.S. births year 2000: 4,058,814

Total infant deaths year 2000: 28,411
Age birth to 1 year. (6.9 per thousand)

Number SIDS deaths year 2000: 2,523
Mostly in cribs.
Defined as death with unexplained cause, birth to 1 year.

Total suffocation deaths year 2000: 1,000


Number of crib-related "accidents"/yr: 50

Number of playpen-related deaths/yr: 16

Number deaths/yr attributed to overlying: 19 Most are only "suspected."

Number of babies (0-2) dying in night fires/yr: 230 Many of which may have been retrievable if next to parent, not in another room of home. This is true for abductions and other night dangers as well.

Number of deaths/yr in adult beds reported as entrapment/suffocation between bed and wall, headboard, or other furniture, on waterbed, in headboard railings, or tangled in bedding: 18 With side-rail: 1 That's 19 of the 60.

Number of deaths/yr reported as suffocation of unknown cause in adult bed: 13 These would be SIDS if in a crib. Remember, these do not necessarily involve cosleeping.

Number of deaths/yr in adult beds from prone sleeping: 5 Again, these are considered SIDS in cribs, and they are preventable in adult beds, as in cribs.

4/yr died not from falling out of adult bed, but from suffocating (pile of clothes, plastic bag) or other danger (such as drowning) after falling out.

13% of U.S. infants are routinely cosleeping with nearly 50% sharing bed for part of the nights. National Institute of Child Health and Human Development 2000 Survey,

Number of U.S. infant lives that could be saved per year by exclusive/extended breastfeeding: 9,000 Exclusive/extended breastfeeding cuts SIDS risk and cuts overall infant death risk in half.

[madokie]

111. I was still sleeping in my parents bed when I was cutting my teath

I remember as if it was yesterday, I can still remember when I couldn't focus, how old are you then. So I say it is good that parents keep their children close in those early days of their development. I feel much better for having been.

[Raine]

113. Same here

and I turned out just fine, anyway I think I did. ;-)

[madokie]

115. Me too, or so I think.

I know one thing and that is I like the memories of cuddling with my parents.

[mainer]

114. I guess no one cares about higher infant death rates

No matter how much research is cited.

Good god. 30 infant suffocation deaths a year. IN ST. LOUIS ALONE!

Doesn't that make you think?

[DaveinMD]

132. well

I think our baby would have choked on her vomit if she slept alone. If we didn't lift her up, she would have choked.

[lostnfound]

149. That's a good point. It can be good for emergencies.

Like in case of fire. Of course you can put a crib in your room but there are the cases like you mentioned, where a parent might not have heard or been aware.

I found cosleeping very helpful and positive, especially for making breastfeeding successful when it was really a struggle.

[LisaL]

198. Putting the crib in your room, or having a baby monitor

would have achieved the same results. That's no reason to stick a baby in your bed.

[DaveinMD]

209. I disagree

and I think our baby would as well. People should do what they are comfortable with.

[Coexist]

165. 171 infants died

from being left in parked cars that overheated. What's your point.

4000 infant deaths each year from SIDS - if only 30 were from co-sleeping, where were the rest?

http://www.tykesiowa.org/documents/guardgallag.pdf

As parents - we all take the risk that something will end our child's life before they reach adulthood. It is tragic, but it is true. I lost friends as a teenager and adult. My daughter lost a friend already. There are no guarentees in life.

I could tell my daughter not to drive because so many teens die in car accidents, but a pedestrian teen was recently killed on a nearby street -so what- she shouldn't walk, either????

[Coexist]

167. The Crib Industry wants you to know that 60 "accidental" infant deaths hav

Could it be all about selling $400 cribs???!
We all know how hard the backlash was from the formula industry when people started breastfeeding again.

http://www.babyreference.com/Cosleeping&SIDSFactSheet.htm
<snip>
Why did they forget to mention that safe cosleeping actually reduces bed deaths??

The crib industry (JPMA) provided a large forum for the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to announce this report. Unfortunately, no comparative statistics are provided in their announcements, and even the statistics they report are admittedly anecdotal and irregular. While the report supposedly left out the adult bed deaths that were diagnosed as SIDS (versus accidents), the determination between suffocation and SIDS is often a judgment call. Suffocation in a crib is more often reported as SIDS, while suffocation in an adult bed is reported as "death by adult bed."

The actual SIDS statistics were not measured. Why? Several well-designed research studies demonstrate that SIDS is actually reduced in babies cosleeping along with an aware, protective (non-smoking, non-drug-impaired) mother in a safe bed. Such an announcement would not sell cribs.

[indie_voter]

173. link to some studies from the site you cite.

http://www.babyreference.com/Cosleeping&SIDS%202005%20Review%20of%20the%20Studies.htm

Thank you for the original link.

Also, here is the link to Dr.McKenna's FAQ:

http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/faq.html

Just as I would want to understand the "internals" behind a Halliburton reconstruction study or a Moral Majority study (I remember all those AIDS studies in the 80s, where they used stats to blame gay people for AIDS, claiming gay sex was dangerous), I want to understand who funds a study and see the raw data.

I co-sleep (my kids are older), there are times I wish I had my own space. It isn't for everyone.

However, it is ridiculous to cite incomplete studies or anecdotal stories to scare people. Education is the key. There are ways to make a crib safe, there are ways to make a family bed safe. Both have pros and cons, it is up to the individual to make sure all safety precautions are taken regardless of choice.

People need to educate themselves and make the best decision for their family.

For those who want to co-sleep but don't want the baby right next them, a hybrid solution might work. A side car crib arrangement? The crib in the room?

We all love our children and want to do right by them. What works for one family is not going to work for another.

[Bridget Burke]

172. But--surely their parents were drunks, druggies or fatties!

With inferior genetics and/or bad home environments, those kids weren't going to amount to much, anyway.

After all, bad things only happen to bad people.

[insane_cratic_gal]

183. your research is FLAWED!

Your citing research from the same source over and over.. the article where do you think they got that info from? the same research Inst. that had a Baby Crib Manufacture as a Co-Sponsor for the research!

60/deaths vs 4000 deaths a year ..

Sids is responsible for 4,000 deaths a year!! that's babies sleeping alone in their cribs suffocating on pillows, crib mattresses, stuffed animals, sheets.. blankets.. or they just stop breathing on their own.

60 to 40 children die due to a poor choice: Usually the choice is a parent being drunk, on meds or over weight ,or being placed in the middle of parents who sleep too heavy One happens to be a restless sleeper.

Take precautions to prevent baby from rolling out of bed, even though it is unlikely when baby is sleeping next to mother. Like heat-seeking missiles, babies automatically gravitate toward a warm body. Yet, to be safe, place baby between mother and a guardrail or push the mattress flush against the wall and position baby between mother and the wall. Guardrails enclosed with plastic mesh are safer than those with slats, which can entrap baby's limbs or head. Be sure the guardrail is flush against the mattress so there is no crevice that baby could sink into.

Place baby adjacent to mother, rather than between mother and father. Mothers we have interviewed on the subject of sharing sleep feel they are so physically and mentally aware of their baby's presence even while sleeping, that it's extremely unlikely they would roll over onto their baby. Some fathers, on the other hand, may not enjoy the same sensitivity of baby's presence while asleep; so it is possible they might roll over on or throw out an arm onto baby. After a few months of sleep-sharing, most dads seem to develop a keen awareness of their baby's presence



Do not sleep with your baby if:

You are under the influence of any drug (such as alcohol or tranquilizing medications) that diminishes your sensitivity to your baby's presence. If you are drunk or drugged, these chemicals lessen your arousability from sleep.

You are extremely obese. Obesity itself may cause sleep apnea in the mother, in addition to the smothering danger of pendulous breasts and large fat rolls.

You are exhausted from sleep deprivation. This lessens your awareness of your baby and your arousability from sleep.

You are breastfeeding a baby on a cushion surface, such as a waterbed or couch. An exhausted mother could fall asleep breastfeeding and roll over on the baby.

You are the child's baby-sitter. A baby-sitter's awareness and arousability is unlikely to be as acute as a mother's.

Don't allow older siblings to sleep with a baby under nine months. Sleeping children do not have the same awareness of tiny babies as do parents, and too small or too crowded a bed space is an unsafe sleeping arrangement for a tiny baby.

Don't fall asleep with baby on a couch. Baby may get wedged between the back of the couch and the larger person's body, or baby's head may become buried in cushion crevices or soft cushions.

Do not sleep with baby on a free-floating, wavy waterbed or similar "sinky" surface in which baby could suffocate.

Don't overheat or overbundle baby. Be particularly aware of overbundling if baby is sleeping with a parent. Other warm bodies are an added heat source.

Don't wear lingerie with string ties longer than eight inches. Ditto for dangling jewelry. Baby may get caught in these entrapments.

Avoid pungent hair sprays, deodorants, and perfumes. Not only will these camouflage the natural maternal smells that baby is used to and attracted to, but foreign odors may irritate and clog baby's tiny nasal passages. Reserve these enticements for sleeping alone with your spouse

I can cite places where they dispute your evidence.

What does the research say? The September/October 2002 issue of Mothering Magazine presents research done throughout the whole world on the issue of safe sleep. Numerous studies are presented by experts of excellent reputation. And what is the magazine's conclusion based on all this research? That not only is sleeping with your baby safe, but it is actually much safer than having your baby sleep in a crib. Research shows that infants who sleep in a crib are twice as likely to suffer a sleep related fatality (including SIDS) than infants who sleep in bed with their parents.

And the AAP you cite backed by a formula/pacifier company. More forumula is sold if breast feeding is made inconvient by the use of a crib.

[mainer]

196. American Academy of Pediatrics is flawed?

They have chosen to produce a unified statement against co-sleeping.

And what I have, on Lexis-Nexis, are numerous articles from cities around the country. DIFFERENT cities, with DIFFERENT sets of autopsies and death investigations from their own individual towns. These are not all the same research papers; these are different health departments, from Philadelphia to Detroit to Oregon to South Carolina to New York City. Each conducting their own analysis of their infant death statistics. These are HEALTH DEPARTMENTS, not crib manufacturers. And they have all decided they needed to address the issue and advise against it.

whereas the only research I'm seeing here on this thread, supporting co-sleeping, is all from the same doctor.

[LisaL]

199. I have notice that people would refuse to believe something

they don't want to believe. No matter how much proof you provide, they will declare the research flawed, the website or journal it came from bogus, etc. It is clearly an unsafe practice in my eyes. Any benefits gotten from it do not outweigh the risks.

[insane_cratic_gal]

216. It is flawed

AAP got it's money from a formula company and a pacifier company..

Several people here have pointed this out to you, you've chosen to ignore every single one of them.

So (and this is directed to Lizzy too) Yes the information is flawed. Not because I so desperately need to defend it, but it's the truth. The truth is the truth, read it for yourself. http://www.babyreference.com/Cosleeping&SIDS%202005%20Review%20of%20the%20Studies.htm
Dare to step outside of the general opinion and look at the bigger prejudice you both have against co- sleeping because there is an obvious bias lingering.

Have you asked yourself why other cultures do this? studied their opinions? Expand your horizons and look into it fully.

The numbers in the largest study on co sleeping around the world suggest that safe co sleeping reduces SIDS greatly! Most nations with SIDS rates much lower than the United States regularly practice co sleeping, on firm surfaces, with low rates of smoking.

AAP is affiliated people representing a commercial product. Do you know how much the Formula and Crib industry pull down in year?

Thats' like saying Big Tobacco companies didn't influence the first studies of cancer related illness. It's invested interest! Yes I stand by it the information is flawed.
They are using the same two sources you are using over and over again. AAP and Consumer Product Safety

one related to Formula and one related to a maker of cribs how is that information not tainted to you? Especially when they didn't take into account weight, drug abuse, age, how they slept where the baby slept, the mattress was it a waterbed? They left out too much to take into account.

[miss_american_pie]

223. Suffocation is not SIDS

And there are ways to decrease suffocation risks.

And there are babies that have suffocated in cribs.

[ComerPerro]

121. I couldn't sleep in a bed with an infant or a very small child

I'd probably kill it in the night, when I rolled over on it or pushed it off the bed...

[CornField]

122. I never could co-sleep --- was too anxious about the baby being in the bed

I was afraid that Mr. CornField and/or I would roll over on the baby. To further push my anxiety, I did fall asleep in the bed with my daughter one night while breastfeeding. I woke up to her arm flailing about from under my husband's back. Scared me to death at the time. LOL! I always used a small bassinette which sat beside our bed. It was a good compromise for us.

Now, all that being said, I had major sleep issues until my children were past the SIDS high-risk age group. I'm probably not the best person in the world to be giving advice to others about how they should and shouldn't sleep with their infant. For the most part, I didn't sleep at all until our kids were 8-10 weeks old.

[northzax]

130. here's my question

how come no one ever posts on these parenting threads, "well, I co-slept, and my kid is an anti-social fuckup" or "I didn't co-sleep, and my kid has serious attachment issues and started abusing heroin at the age of 12. He's in jail now."

Just a question. It's worth noting that people only post their own good experiences, for the most part, which is fine, but hardly a representative sample of real life. Surely not everyone on DU has perfectly adjusted children, this isn't Lake Wobegon, after all. But those parents never seem to chime in on these threads. I wonder why not?

[lapislzi]

159. Here, I'll admit it...

Although I posted earlier that my 11-year-old acts pretty much like a regular kid, she is shaping up to be a right royal beast for the next 7 years or so. Again, I think this is part of normal development, if maybe on the extreme end, but I don't think her co-sleeping with me for 4 years had anything to do with that. Maybe I suck as a parent sometimes. I'm sure I do. I'm sure she would say I do. Other days I am the world's best mother.

It's like breast vs bottle feeding. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, but you can hardly trace major problems later in life to either one (except as with the perennial joke about being weaned too early or some such). Might one or the other predispose a person to have attachment issues or "oral" tendencies? Maybe. But fuckuppery of the type you describe can't be attributed to one or another single cause.

Besides, who among us will admit to being a bad parent? If you're posting on this thread, it's probably because you love your kids and care about the best way to raise them. Good parents pay attention. Bad parents usually don't give a shit. Now you can argue that people can act from the purest of intentions and still raise fucked up kids. It happens all the time. Conversely, shitty parents can raise perfectly well-adjusted kids despite their (worst) efforts. I had lousy parents and I don't consider myself too much of a fuck up.

Of course, as CGrantt says, "nobody has the parents they think they deserve, and no parent has the kids they think they deserve."

[mainer]

205. I didn't have daughters; but I hear being a "beast" is normal for them.

If that makes you feel better.

[DaveinMD]

131. our baby

sleeps in our bed. She absolutely refused to sleep in the crib. We tried everything. So she'll stay in our bed until she can sleep on a mattress of her own safely.

[JohnLocke]

137. How adorable!

;)

[One_of_8]

214. She is so beautiful! N/T

[Boomer]

133. When does co-sleeping become emotional dysfunction?

Reason I ask is that our next-door neighbor's son still sleeps in his parent's bedroom and he's 12 years old. Within the last few years he's "graduated" from actually sleeping in bed with them all the time to now sneaking into their room at night and sleeping on the floor. Their half-hearted attempts to get him to sleep in his own room have only partially succeeded.

His father isn't crazy about this situation, but he defers to his wife, who doesn't seem to mind. But it strikes me as highly inappropriate behavior and rather disturbing that this child doesn't naturally seek out more independence. If a fledgling doesn't leave the nest, the parents need to nudge harder.

[mainer]

135. I can cite a few screwed up kids who co-slept

They didn't get out of their parents' bed until they were at least seven.

The kids are now totally messed up.

I know another couple who co-slept, and later divorced. The husband now thinks all that "co-sleeping" was his wife's way of avoiding any sex with him.

"Not now, honey! Baby's sleeping!"
"Well, when?"
"Wait till he's six!"

[Ilsa]

139. I bet I can name more screwed up kids who didn't. eom

[Boomer]

160. I think co-lsleeping is the sympton, not the cause

There is something amiss in a family where the kid likes being infantilized by his mother. Most teenagers, especially boys, are going to rebel against being treated like a small child.

A kid who is 12-years old does not need to be co-sleeing with parents for security; he needs to be kicked out into his own room to learn how to take care of himself.

[insane_cratic_gal]

177. There is more going on then.

The root of all evil is NOT Co sleeping. If he's displaying needy behaviors then Mom and Dad are enabling his selfish tendencies. But wanting to be close to your parents isn't a crime. I'm sure by 15 once puberty hits he won't be wanting anything to do with Mom and Dad, he'll want his privacy for his own reasons. It's parenting .. and for those kids who sleep alone .. it's parenting.. for those kids with great kids and those with bad behaviors.. it's parenting. It's not Co-Sleeping. Repeat after me, It's NOT Co-sleeping. The kid has other issues, perhaps it's of confidence, but you can't relate that Co-Sleeping. He could be getting teased or have an irrantional fear. What else is going on in his life?

If you read Dr. Sears he goes to say that Co sleeping builds independent children, happy secure kids. It builds family bonds, and our culture that is a rather selfish culture believes in forcing independence way too early. Here read it! http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T071000.asp

It's an American stigma or a big No No in our culture. I'm so tired of trying to defend it, because ignorance of the subject is rampant in this thread. People assume that a child sleeping in his own room forces independence. This is the Greatest American Myth, there is absolutely NO proof to back that up. NONE!

Yet it gets thrown at New Mom's all of the time who feel that Co-Sleeping is a natural thing. It felt wrong to me to leave my fussy child who didn't sleep well in a room alone, I couldn't get back to sleep because she wouldn't sleep. So we were both miserable! Co sleeping offered a solution. It worked for me. My 8 yr old has been sleeping in her own room for 5 years, does she still end up in my bed in the middle of the night? Yes about 3 times a week, does it bother me? No it doesn't. Why? I know one day she's going to be 18 moved out and grown up. I know that by x time she won't care to call me Mom never mind crawl in my bed.

My daughter, she co slept, she's healthy, sensitive, independent, she laughs easy, she's comfortable with us, she's affectionate with everyone. She's honest, Shy yet friendly, she has tons of friends and is very inclusive with everyone in her class. She plays sports, she chooses her own clothes, fixes herself breakfast, she reads and writes, draws and paints. She does chores, she earns an allowance, she's responsible for her actions and her things. I couldn't ask for a better kid, but I've worked hard to raise her. She's an only child because having another one would be a burden on my health and on finances.


Now, lets get at the heart of the matter, Some men will reject it because they have to share their wife yet again. Mine wasn't like that, but he did feel threatened by it at first. Once you've established he's still gonna laid that goes away. Sharing your life with your child and even a bed is not some perverse thing, it's a natural thing. Most men find that they enjoy it, the wife is happy the kid is happy.. peace is established. My Husband will go fetch my daughter if she's sick and bring her into our bed, It's just a natural loving thing.
For those who decide it's not for them, all the more power to you. I won't have the gall to tell you otherwise because it's none of my business.

But stop making me have to defend the choices I make for my family and my child. Choices that have worked for us. If you know nothing about the subject except a tired facts that are wrong and are only loose based assumptions; educate yourself on the topic so you can have an educated opinion. Not directed at you per-say just the general rebuttal to all of the assumptions that have been made in this thread.

[Boomer]

190. Are you sure you're talking to me?

>> But stop making me have to defend the choices I make for my family and my child. <<

I think you may have confused my messages with that of some poster who questions the concept of co-sleeping, which I do not. On the contrary, I think it is a time-honored way to provide valuable emotional security for infants and children. This is the pattern our species has followed for thousands of years; shoving children off into another room is a very recent (and regional) twist on child-rearing.

My only issue was wondering at what age the co-sleeping becomes a symptom of underling emotional problems. I don't think anyone on this thread has expressed a view that would indicate a 12-year-old boy should still be co-sleeping with his parents. Anywhere from one to five years seems to be the accepted practice. So I'd say my neighbor's kid is waaaay out of that pattern.

[insane_cratic_gal]

193. It was directed at Nay Sayers

see here : But stop making me have to defend the choices I make for my family and my child. . Not directed at you per-say just the general rebuttal to all of the assumptions that have been made in this thread.

But the rest of it was you have to admit at 12 there is more going on here then meets the eye. It may be just bad parenting, you know this. It may not be related to the child having Co-slept. Why he's doing it now seems to suggest a lack of confidence in oneself. That or Mom enables.

I'm not being crappy at you.. just in general. Do you see how much i've posted in this one topic? LOL it's absurd! I think I am just on the edge of ignoring it. Again not directed AT you, but trying to educate people about a different parenting style then the "common cry it out" and force independence is not an easy task! So much for having a large hippie crunchy crowd. I think it's safe to say that label to liberal is extinct.

[Boomer]

239. I should have made it clear....

I should have been more emphatic that it was the age of co-sleeping that raised a warning flag in my mind, not the co-sleeping itself, and that the problem is the parenting style in many other areas as well. Ironically, I just took it for granted that this was obvious and so left the post open to misinterpretation.

The abandonment of co-sleeping is very definitely a cultural trend in the U.S. (maybe other places, too?). Coming from a Latin culture, I know many people view Americans as verging on child abuse by placing infants in another room to sleep alone, not even with siblings.

I don't know if I'd go that far, but I think they're closer to the best practice than many Americans are willing to admit.

[Left Is Write]

237. I know several couples who co-slept with babies and are still married.

And who managed to have sex even when their children were young.

What does that prove? What does your divorced couple prove? Nothing. If that wife didn't want to sleep with her husband, she would have found any excuse. Don't blame co-sleeping for their divorce.

[Tigress DEM]

146. Good News / Bad News

When my son was little, 23+ years ago, I would place him between myself and my husband, but I put my hand up against his father's back so that if daddy rolled over he would break my wrist before he could roll over on the baby. All went well.

New Year's Eve my son went out with friends who returned and picked up their 6 week old baby from the sitters and put the baby between them. New Year's Day they woke up to find their baby blue and quite dead.

It is a risk for the tiniest ones. A risk with such consequences that just don't seem to be worth taking when you think about it.

Adjustment is one thing. Killing your child accidentally during your sleep is another.

BE VERY, VERY CAUTIOUS of the AGE of the Child.

My son has his own baby 4 months old and is thanking God his own baby lives and is forever changed by the grief of his friends.

[insane_cratic_gal]

180. And don't drink & sleep with your kid

you did say New years eve. Could they have been drinking? Sounds like they made a very tragic bad choice.

And no offense to my husband but I always put our daughter away from him. she was between me and the wall. So my Hubby is a restless sleeper. I am not. the rational choice was to protect her from his sleep habits.

[Citizen Jane]

153. Another leading sleep researcher

Dr. James McKenna (whose article on cultural influences I linked to above) has big problems with the CPSC recommendation, based on the Nakamura et al. study, that co-sleeping is dangerous. If you want to see his thoughts on the matter I urge you to look at his powerpoint presentation (all online) in addition to the article I linked before.

http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/cpsc/

McKenna is a well-respected researcher and head of the Mother-Baby Behavioral Sleep Laboratory at Notre Dame.

Co-sleeping made my husband a little nervous at first, but I shared some of McKenna's research with him and he was persuaded (my husband is a research scientist and clinician).

[Beausoir]

155. I think it is a lousy idea.

I am raising five young children and I would never consider letting them permanently sleep in my bed. When they are sick, or firghtened is one thing.

We all need our space and our privacy.

I actually find the notion of this quite comical. I respect anyone's right to sleep with their children. But to claim that this practice has some kind of psychological benefit to the child is absurd.

More like it soothes the parents and does nothing for the baby.

[sleipnir]

156. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

"More like it soothes the parents and does nothing for the baby"

Exactly. That's the real issue behind the curtain. Who is making this decision? The parents. Who is going to directly feel good about this situation for years to come. The parents.

The baby is not going to have the long term memory capacity to retain these experiences, but the parents sure as hell will.

It's a horrible idea and this results in the deaths of thousands of babies each year. Why take the chance? Why not just smoke in bed late at night with your baby? It makes about as much sense.

[Coexist]

166. Ding! Ding! Ding! No - we just have another opinion.

Sorry.

[Arugula Latte]

181. My kids slept with us as toddlers -- I think they do retain that sense

of closeness and security. They remember sleeping with us. We are a very, very close family. They have no problem sleeping in their own beds now. Also: "Thousands of babies" each year -- where did you get that? You could just as easily say babies die alone in their cribs; maybe if the parents had been close by that wouldn't happen.

[Beausoir]

188. Don't you DARE blame the parents of SIDs babies!!!

How DARE you make such a statement!

Jesus. Just to futher your own half-baked theory on sleeping with your children, you would try and blame the parents who have gone through hell on earth?

Just thank your lucky stars it never happened to you. CLearly, you have no concept of the horror that losing a baby brings.

[insane_cratic_gal]

189. Your over reacting

the person was defending against the half baked theory that sleeping with your child causes sids. Lets try not to allow our knee jerk reactions to over take us.

I think we on the co-sleeping side have had to defend that co sleeping doesn't cause sids. We've said over and over again that NO ONE really knows what causes sids, but there is no evidence to suggest that it's caused by co-sleeping.

Sids is a tragedy, Cancer is a tragedy, Babies dying in a parents bed due to suffocation is a tragedy. No one is suggesting that it's anyone's fault. The argument was "what if it could of been prevented if the child had been in bed with the parent. "

There is some evidence to suggest (Dr. Sears) That a mom acts as a natural pace maker for babies perhaps it helps prevent sids. I can understand where you'd feel affronted but I'm sure no one is pointing a finger at a parent who's lost a child to sids as having done something wrong.

Now co-sleeping, that is just reckless according to a few outspoken people here. I think the author was merely suggesting it's no more reckless then allowing your child to sleep in a crib.

[jhain]

200. care to explain

exactly how being warm and safe in your parents arms does nothing for a baby?

Any concept of stressors on infants and how they effect growth?
I am talking purely physical effects here.

The emotional benefits are certainly obvious to most of the world's inhabitants.

[miss_american_pie]

225. "Long term memory capacity"

So parents can do whatever so long as the child doesn't remember it?

[Ms. Toad]

241. If your analysis were correct,

then all those adoption workers back in the 50s who counseled prospective adoptive parents that it really didn't matter what happened from birth to age 2 - enough love later on would fix any potential harm those first two years.

We now know that they were absolutely wrong, and many of those children were so emotionally damaged that they never recovered. The first two years, when there is virtually no tangible memory, are THE MOST CRITICAL for a child's emotional health. There is no reason to believe the 8-10 overnight hours do not play a role in that - whether or not there is any specific memory associated with those hours.

Your numbers are way off, as well - the number is less than 100. Read the statistics elsewhere in this thread.

[LisaL]

170. I would never do it either. I am not a Twiggy.

And I would never co-sleep with my kids, because I don't want to scrape them off the mattress in the morning.

[fortyfeetunder]

158. A cultural divide

I recommend a book to read.
Our Babies, Ourselves by Meredith Small.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385483627/qid=1136960202/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7598423-9939317?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

I read this book when I was pregnant because, I wanted to practice attachment parenting and co-sleeping, since I planned to breastfeed my child. And Ms. Small, presents some cogent discussion on the cultural norms (ethnopediatrics) on the way infants and children are raised, basically a comparison of (industrialized) Western culture vs the rest of the world. So reading the book validated my feelings and my pposition on co-sleeping.

[ScreamingMeemie]

169. While I'm basically ambivalent about the whole thing...to each his own

and that. I slept on the floor next to my son's crib for his first three months. (Long story, many late term losses, afraid something was going to happen. I didn't bring him into our bed as an infant, because a friend had just lost her newborn that way. He was smothered by the covering on his 1 1/2 year old sister's diaper, while the entire family slept in the same bed. At the time James was born, co sleeping kids were way out of our financial realm. What I did allow, when he was big enough to wake us if in trouble, was let him share our bed every once in a while as a toddler. This continues to this day (he's 7)

Sue me.

[Kaylee]

174. My son co-slept for the first three months...

and neither my 3 year old daughter nor husband slept in the bed with us during that time. Both of them are wild sleepers. At three months he went into his own crib with no problem, and now refuses to sleep anywhere except his crib at night. Even at 1 1/2, I still think he would be too little to share a bed with his sister. She is just too wild at night and sleeps too deeply (as most toddlers do).

[TNOE]

175. Did not check out this thread until today

but I guess I do have to agree - it may be more about the parents than the baby. I was separated from my husband when my daughter was 8 months old - had to take a 2nd job - and didn't get to spend nearly the time with her that I wanted (although she was with grandma) - I always slept with her so that I could feel close to her and send her love (energy) - she probably slept with me until she was 8 - and then wanted to go to her own room. It was her decision. We are very very close to this day and I have those wonderful feelings and memories of being that close to her. I would hold her all night long. And she is now a very happy well-adjusted 23 year old newly married woman now. I never had any trouble from her whatsoever. And probably an entirely different subject but I personally believe that we all have a birth date and death date - and you're going to go whenever that predetermined plan is - regardless. Whether you're 9 day or 90 years.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

176. Both of my sons, both are pretty well adjusted and this lasted as long

as they thought it was not cool to sleep in the family bed.

[Pool Hall Ace]

178. I have no strong opinions about co-sleeping with small children, but

I have a friend whose 15-year-old daughter still co-sleeps with the parents. And that doesn't seem very healthy to me.

[GreenPartyVoter]

182. I slept with both of mine. Makes it easier to nurse at night

[hopeisaplace]

184. We have 4 kids...this is our story regarding bedtimes

A. 19 year old slept on and off in our room til he was seven - he's EXTREMELY independent today

B. 13 year old never slept in our bed as a baby, cause he was an amazing sleeper as baby - he's also very independent (but I would rock and sooth him for however long it would take for him to settle,
sometimes it took 1 to 2 hours)

C. 11 year old never really slept in our bed as a baby (again put him to bed as the 13 year old)
-he's adjusted and loving - I would take 1 to 2 hours soothing him too before bed

D. 5 year old -I go to bed with him and stay in his room usually for about 1 to 1.5 hours til he falls asleep (if he wakes up in the middle of the night - he'll come in our room - As a baby he slept in his own crib but again I spent 1 to 2 hours rocking him to sleep)

[jhain]

197. what about a fire?

All my kids co-slept. I never could understand how other babies were expected to get out of those beds with bars and jump out a window in the event of a fire...or tornado...or ...or....or particularly before they could ..uhhhh.... hold ther heards up or ...uhhh... walk.

The incidence of SIDS is lower in babies who co-sleep.
http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/

Every other society parents their kids 24 hours a day- not just in the daylight.

[LisaL]

202. Baby is not expected to get out of bed, even if the bed had no bars.

As for the fire, it would be about the same if the baby slept in your bed, or in the next room. Having the baby sleeping in your bed does not guarantee that the baby will be safe, if there is a fire. And if the baby is in the next room, it doesn't mean the baby will perish in the fire.

[jhain]

206. so sorry- thought the sarcasm was evident

Parenting holds NO guarantees.
However, a baby stands a far, FAR greater chance of surviving any catastrophe if the parent is in the same room and able to facilitate rescue.

[mainer]

204. Overseas doctors also advise against co-sleeping

I also found citations of similar studies from Australia. Not that any of this will convince people who've already made up their minds. I just think you should see what mainstream medical researchers believe.

------------------


Copyright 2004 Scottish Media Newspapers Limited
The Herald (Glasgow)

January 16, 2004

SECTION: Pg. 1

LENGTH: 596 words

HEADLINE: U-turn on cot death link to sharing bed

BYLINE: Helen Puttick Health Correspondent

BODY:
ADVICE suggesting parents share beds with young babies was overturned yesterday after a wide-ranging study linked the practice to cot death.

A review of all guidance given to new parents in Scotland is now planned after one of the most comprehensive ever research projects into infant death syndrome. The study revealed sleeping in bed with infants less than eight weeks old doubles the chance of cot death. Where both parents smoked and the bed was shared, the risk of cot death increased 100 fold.

It found putting the baby on its back with no bedding other than a jumpsuit or sleepsuit or very light covers was crucial to lowering the risk of cot death.

Figures suggest there were 53 sudden infant deaths in Scotland last year, the highest number for 10 years.

(snip)


The study compared the home environment of 745 cot death victims with the conditions experienced by 2400 live infants across western and eastern Europe...
Professor Robert Carpenter, of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medi -cine, co-ordinated the study.

He said that, as well as reducing risk by having the infant on its back, with no duvet, "it is safest if a baby sleeps in a cot, in the parents' room''. Joyce Epstein, director of FSID, said they would immediately start alerting parents to the new guidance on bed sharing.

LOAD-DATE: January 16, 2004
Document 122 of 476

[insane_cratic_gal]

228. The facts

Lets throw emotion to the wind, when it comes to parenting there isn't a more emotional topic or knee jerk reaction the parenting.


http://www.babyreference.com/Cosleeping&SIDSFactSheet.htm

Number of U.S. births year 2000: 4,058,814

Total infant deaths year 2000: 28,411
Age birth to 1 year. (6.9 per thousand)

Number SIDS deaths year 2000: 2,523
Mostly in cribs.
Defined as death with unexplained cause, birth to 1 year.

Total suffocation deaths year 2000: 1,000


Number of crib-related "accidents"/yr: 50

Number of playpen-related deaths/yr: 16

Number deaths/yr attributed to overlying: 19 Most are only "suspected."

Number of babies (0-2) dying in night fires/yr: 230 Many of which may have been retrievable if next to parent, not in another room of home. This is true for abductions and other night dangers as well.

Number of deaths/yr in adult beds reported as entrapment/suffocation between bed and wall, headboard, or other furniture, on waterbed, in headboard railings, or tangled in bedding: 18 With side-rail: 1 That's 19 of the 60.

Number of deaths/yr reported as suffocation of unknown cause in adult bed: 13 These would be SIDS if in a crib. Remember, these do not necessarily involve cosleeping.

Number of deaths/yr in adult beds from prone sleeping: 5 Again, these are considered SIDS in cribs, and they are preventable in adult beds, as in cribs.

4/yr died not from falling out of adult bed, but from suffocating (pile of clothes, plastic bag) or other danger (such as drowning) after falling out.

13% of U.S. infants are routinely cosleeping with nearly 50% sharing bed for part of the nights. National Institute of Child Health and Human Development 2000 Survey,


Now Infant sleep and Industry Dollars

A century ago, as formula and other industry sales burgeoned, separate bedrooms for children became associated with images of affluence. However, a new problem arose -- babies screaming from abandonment throughout the night. Solutions were now needed to encourage sleep in babies. Formula companies advertised that (difficult-to-digest) formula promotes longer sleep. Prone sleeping (an unnatural position for a baby nursing next to mom) was discovered to extend sleep. Allowing babies to cry for long periods induces deeper sleep states and has been endorsed as a positive practice. Today, nearly every early pediatric visit includes the question: "Is baby sleeping through the night?" -- further encouraging the use of these unnatural sleep practices.


The problem here is this: long intervals of deep sleep are shown to be a major cause of SIDS. A co-sleeping baby naturally arouses frequently to lighter sleep states. On the other hand, prone positioning impinges the cervical spine and brain stem, and formula-feeding itself triples the SIDS rate.


Remember our mainly crib-sleeping, bottle-feeding, U.S. infants with the highest medical attention in the world rank only 42nd (2003 statistic) in infant survival among reporting nations. Strong, dangerous messages from the formula and crib industries are being provided regularly to pediatricians.

Parents should be free to make feeding and sleep choices that work best for their own family, but these choices should be made based on accurate information


that's that.. I'm done trying to show you there is a safe side, a rational side.. there are benefits to co sleepers. But I guess my kid and millions like her who co slept and lived.. just got lucky.

[indie_voter]

211. co-sleeping studies(not all by the same doctor)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15725774&query_hl=33

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/311/7015/1269

from above link:

There is great controversy about bed sharing and the sudden infant death syndrome. Our study confirmed that significantly more Latin American and African-American parents and infants than white families routinely slept together. For infants who died from the syndrome 45 deaths occurred while sharing a bed. There was a weak association between bed sharing and the sudden infant death syndrome (odds ratio 1.21 night, 1.38 day), which was not significant when potential confounders were adjusted for. In our study bed sharing was not a major risk factor for the syndrome. Sample size calculations indicate that 200 matched sets would require an odds ratio of 2.9 for a significance level of P<0.05 and 80% power.

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=10582925


from above link:

Unlike cots, which are designed to meet safety standards for infants, adult beds are not so designed and may, at least in theory, carry a risk of accidental entrapment and suffocation. This and the conflicting evidence for harm or benefit from bed sharing shown in previous studies have generated strong professional beliefs about the appropriateness or otherwise of sharing a bed and cosleeping.

The debate on the safety, advantages, and disadvantages of bed sharing and cosleeping must be informed by evidence from epidemiology, physiology, and anthropology if it is to become more than the exchange of mere opinion. There has been little in the way of direct observational data until recently, but it is becoming clear that sharing a bed both for infants and mothers results in complex interactions that are completely different from isolated sleeping and that need to be understood in detail before application of simplistic labels such as “safe” or “unsafe.”2425 Our results suggest that, as McKenna has argued, perhaps it is not bed sharing per se that is hazardous but rather the particular circumstances in which bed sharing occurs. That some of these circumstances may be modifiable has important implications in terms of social policy and health education.

more different studies can be found at:

http://www.babyreference.com/Cosleeping&SIDS%202005%20Review%20of%20the%20Studies.htm

[mainer]

213. And one of the articles cited above says it's a risk factor:

"The study examines sudden unexpected infant deaths from 1991 to 2000 in the state of Kentucky, excluding homicides and deaths from identifiable natural causes. Meta-analysis provides a cosleeping prevalence control in normal infants. Based on the findings described herein, we conclude that cosleeping may represent a risk factor in sudden unexpected infant deaths and that a full scene investigation, including whether the infant was cosleeping, should be sought in all cases of sudden infant death."

While the other can't come up with any evidence it increases SIDS.

(btw, we're talking about suffocation, not SIDS.)

I don't see anything from the above that proves that co-sleeping is safer than crib sleeping.

[indie_voter]

217. Who says co-sleeping is safer?

Not me. I maintain both can be made safe.

There are people who put their kids in dangerous crib environments (mobiles over heads, big stuffed animals, bumpers in the crib, lots of blankets and pillows. I know a poor infant smothered by a huge stuffed animal. )

There are people who put their kids in dangerous family bed environments.

Both need to educate themselves to make sure they provide the safest environment for their child.


My points:

1. Many studies do not provide the breakdown on the sleep environment.

The mother rolls over on the baby, why? If you eliminate the obese, drunk, drugged parents, what is the percentage of moms rolling on their baby?

How many babies suffocate on big pillows in the bed? Down comforters?

All these things should NOT be in the bed with baby. Any more than a huge Pooh should be in the crib with your baby.

2. I think Co-sleeping can be done safely (just as a crib sleeping can be done safely) but it takes education and possibly adult discomfort.

3. Co-sleeping is NOT for everyone, but it is not a "wrong" or "bad" choice. Although I would strongly advise anybody who decided to co-sleep to do as much research as possible to ensure the family bed and surrounding areas are infant proofed. Too many people don't understand this is something they need to think about.

I agree with the statement made in one of the studies:

"The debate on the safety, advantages, and disadvantages of bed sharing and cosleeping must be informed by evidence from epidemiology, physiology, and anthropology if it is to become more than the exchange of mere opinion."

[LibertyLover]

215. Co-sleeping

When my husband and I adopted our little girl 2 years ago, a collegue who had adopted a year earlier tried to convince me to do the co-sleeping thing. He said that he and his partner found that it really helped their little girl adapt to her new surroundings. I was willing to try it, but my husband said absolutely not (and besides, we co-sleep with 2 whippets already). While we were in China, our daughter got used to us sleeping in the same room as she was, so when we brought her home she refused to sleep in her own room. She would go down for a nap in her room but would not sleep the night there and would scream and cry. I didn't mind a little crying, but she was getting way too upset. So we actually tried co-sleeping. She was a very active sleeper however and none of us got much sleep - so we came up with a compromise. We put up her portacrib in our room, inially very near our bed and gradually over the course of weeks moved it to the other side of the room. Everyone was happy, my husband and I could sleep, the whippets were back in the bed and our daughter was in the room with her parents. After 3 or 4 months, we transitioned her to her own bedroom. For a couple of weeks, I had to sing her to sleep, but thankfully once she was asleep, little awakened her. Now she is totally happy in her own room and has only once or twice wanted to sleep with us, usually because she is not feeling well. I will say that when our little girl was sleeping in our room that I didn't talk about it a lot. Occassionally a friend or relative would comment on the crib in the room and I would mention that we were transitioning her to her new bed. Most people were fine with that explanation. I know I enjoyed having her in our room and loved getting up to watch her sleep and knowing that she was my daughter.

[Dora]

218. If You Think Co-Sleeping is a Bad Idea...

The anger and hostility that non-co-sleepers have expressed on this thread is surprising and saddening.

If you don't like co-sleeping, then don't do it. If you want, please express your concerns to parents who are considering doing it. But please don't waste your breath arguing that co-sleeping is irresponsible to parents who have done it successfully. And please don't criticize parents who are in the process of doing it. It's one thing to know something as true. It's another to have an opinion, colored though it may be by tragic experience.

The "research" and "studies" on the subject are arguable from either perspective. Having a child is an invitation to risk of all kinds: preventable, unforseen, medical, unstoppable, accidental... Unfortunately, babies will die from preventable accidents, despite all our best efforts to protect, defend, and nurture.

I'm going to give my boy extra hugs today, that's for certain.

[indie_voter]

219. Well said. Thank you

This quote summed it up for me, and I realized this is just an exercise in chasing tails. ;)

"The debate on the safety, advantages, and disadvantages of bed sharing and cosleeping must be informed by evidence from epidemiology, physiology, and anthropology if it is to become more than the exchange of mere opinion."

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=10582925

[Pacifist Patriot]

221. Very good response.

Parents should look at the options, inform themselves of the risks, evaluate their lifestyle, weigh their personalities and then make wise decisions about whichever sleep choice they make.

A person who puts a baby in a crib because it is safer and then purchases an old rickety crib and places tons of stuffed animals and pillows in it is delusional. A person who co-sleeps, drinks heavily, uses lots of fluffy bedclothes and does not use bed rails or bed cars is also delusional. It's not the choice itself, it's the decisions we make within the choice.

I have three kids. I co-slept with two of the three. One of the children would just have nothing to do with it. He wanted to be alone as an infant. He fussed when in the bed with us and drifted right off in the bassinet. Go figure.

One of my children co-slept for the first few months and then moved into a crib. The third slept in my bed for years. There are a great deal more parenting decisions I must make that can impact my children's safety. And then hope and pray nothing unexpected happens.

[ScreamingMeemie]

226. I don't think so. I'm not for or against it. I just chose not to for

personal, and very REAL reasons. A good friend lost her newborn that way. So, instead, I slept on the floor next to my son's crib. When he got older, I let him hop in with us on occasion, and he still does. Let's face it, people on both sides of this argument have tried to ram their opinions down the throats of the opposing side. :shrug:

[SmokingJacket]

229. My son is 23 and we still co-sleep.

JUST KIDDING!! :D

[insane_cratic_gal]

230. brat LOL

:evilgrin:

[Raster]

242. Yes, but are you still breast feeding?

:spank:

[rd_kent]

245. Why not?

My dog sleeps on the bed with me and the wife, why not a baby?

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

246. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

and sometimes sleep is just sleep.

All the thousands of years humanity has been on this planet, and suddenly this kind of nonsense leaps out at the world? Jeez, someone needs a nap. Badly. :rofl: