Are the Duke Lacrosse Photos Legit?

[dogday]

Can the time stamp on a digital photo be altered?

Lawyers released digital photos of a Duke lacrosse team party to the media this week, in an attempt to discredit the exotic dancer who has accused several players of rape. Time-stamped images show the woman performing at the party and then smiling on the back porch at 12:30 a.m. Can you trust the time stamp on a digital image?

Nope. When you take a picture with a digital camera, the exact date and time of the shutter-release are recorded to your image file, along with many other bits of "metadata." Every time you take a picture, your camera will also save information about your exposure time, f-stop setting, ISO, focal length, and so on. (It will even store a second time stamp for the moment the image file gets written to your memory card—which usually happens just a few moments after you take the picture.) But the time stamps are only as accurate as the clock in your camera; if you forgot to set it an hour ahead for daylight savings, your metadata would be an hour off. You can also modify any of the metadata with a simple computer command if you have the right software.

Digital cameras append metadata to an image file according to a standard format called EXIF, short for "Exchangeable Image File." You won't see the information when you load up the picture (and the date and time won't appear in the corner of your image), but you can call up the details with a few clicks of the mouse. In Photoshop all you have to do is go to "File: File Info"; camera-specific image browsers make it just as easy.

Photoshop and many other software packages let you edit certain parts of the EXIF data. You can add a caption, for example, or copyright information if you're a professional photographer. Other metadata—like the original time stamp, for example—is "read-only," which means you can't modify it with standard software. Even if you try to fiddle with the binary code using a hex editor, it may not be obvious how to change the date and time without corrupting the file.

As an artist, you can pretty much change anything on a photo, no problem

http://www.slate.com/id/2140303/nav/tap2/alright

[Catherine Vincent]

1. Why would they risk it?

[paparush]

2. Would the lawyers be that stupid...in such a high profile case...

w/ so many tech savy people catching all kinds of photoshop dupes these days...

I'm skeptical.

[bloom]

34. They may just be trying to influence the public/jury pool

it seems to be working.


I have no reason to assume anything they say is true. So I'm skeptical too.

[meisje]

3. photoshop leaves a tracer when you edit

[malaise]

4. Wouldn't that depend on the date you set in the camera?

I have a great JVC camera and on more than one occasion I've seen the wrong date show up on pix.

[dogday]

7. Exactly, you got it also read this

That doesn't mean it takes a serious computer hacker to adjust the numbers. Within a span of about 20 minutes, the Explainer was able to download a utility called ExifTool from the Web and edit the time stamps on all his photos: Each and every one now appears to have been taken at 12:30 a.m. on the night of the Duke lacrosse team party.

You can change the time on the camera and take the images...

[timber84]

9. How do you know they've released all the photos?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. That is completely true.

It's easy to screw with the internal clock on those things. Of course, that would mean it would have to be completely pre-meditated and carefully thought through, which while isn't outside the realm of possibility by any means, is a bit more of a stretch of belief.

[timber84]

10. I agree n/t

[dogday]

12. Desperate people do desperate things

when you are looking at charges of kidnapping and rape?? I am not saying either way, just throwing this out there for opinions....

[timber84]

14. How do you fudge the time stamp on an ATM receipt?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. You don't, unless you forge one completely.

But then there are also bank records to corroborate, so that's moot.

[timber84]

18. So if the guy has pictures an ATM receipt and a cab driver

also verifying his whereabouts plus cell phone records, that's alot of shit to alter in my opinion.

[dogday]

19. It Amazes me the prosecutor continues to

to go forward with all this information that has been thrown out to the public.. What does he have that we don't know about?????

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. A large angry mob outside of his door and possibly an election year

Outside of that, I don't know.

[timber84]

21. I believe he's going on her account and the report by the nurse

at the hospital. It looks like he is fingering the wrong guys right now.

[LostinVA]

54. None of this info is evidence, nor has it been corroborated or examined

NONE. It's Defense spin, which is what they all do, because it's their job to do so.

Everything must be proven in a court of law. And, I find the neighbors' police report remarks must more illuminating and accurate than the cabbie's or the Defense.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

15. That might be true and all, but...

The pictures would have to have been taken BEFORE the attack, which means they absolutely would have to have pre-meditated the crime. Again, that's not outside the realm of possibility, however, these things usually are not pre-meditated and it would be a lot harder to prove, especially without the DNA evidence.

On edit: I don't have a horse in this race at all, except I want to see justice served. And justice does not mean blind vengence.

[MadHound]

22. Not neccessarily

It could be something as simple as they forgot to set the clock ahead for DST, batteries died at some point, etc. Or they could have simply changed it after the fact:shrug:

Me, I'm still waiting for the jury verdict. I doubt that the DA would take on a case as explosive as this, during an election year, unless he had some damn good evidence backing up his shit. Personally, I think that the defense is trying to taint the jury pool as much as possible by this ongoing release of material.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. Quelling an angry mob by going after SOMEBODY is an election year move

Even if it doesn't pan out, at least he can say he didn't sit on his hands and ignore it. Can you imagine the fury if he just said "Eh, she's lying. Next case?" Please - they're pissed off and he IS investigating and has come up with an indictment. Never underestimate the angry mob.

You're right and wrong - he could've forgotten to change the clock for DST and the batteries could have died. You're wrong that he could've changed it after the fact, unless it was photoshopped, which would be easily proven.

Of course, there's talk that it was a cell phone camera, in which case, there's no screwing with that at all, or at least not in a way easily disproven.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. Any expert would be able to pin-point the photoshopping immediately.

You might be able to fool the average person, but I guarantee the pros know what they're doing.

On edit: However, the clock might be set incorrectly, however. That's not photoshopping though.

[RB TexLa]

6. Wouldn't be released if altered

I have kept from posting on this case, not because I don't care about rape, but because I don't think this should be any more than page 20 of the sports section in the Dallas paper we have our own rape cases that could be covered.

If anything had been changed or altered on the photos the defense would have never released them as anything like that would lead to the showing of a guilty conscience. I'm sure these boys have more than adequate defense attorneys

[Blue Diadem]

11. I thought I read somewhere around here that it was a camera phone

and the time stamps are directly from the company. Just saying what I remember reading.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. If that's true, there's no fucking with a camera phone's time-stamp

You can't manually set a cell phone's clock. It could be photoshopped in, but that would be incredibly easy to spot.

[hexola]

40. Someone claimed it was simple to change the times on camera phones...

They were able to do it...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

45. I don't know, maybe on some of them it is.

I know on my phone, there is NO way to change the time. It comes directly from Verizon and there is no manual setting. I personally have not seen a phone on which you can manually change the time, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I tend to doubt that highly though.

[hexola]

47. I think some phones actually "call" when a photo is taken...

This was in a DU post - the person claimed it was simple to change the displayed time stamp...

Now - someone else also claimed that...the stamps on the camera arent necessarily what they are talking about...speculation about the phone paging "homebase" when a photo is taken...that is the REAL time stamp...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

48. Since i have no idea about the photos or the phone in question

I'm just going to leave it at this. We'll know everything soon enough. (This is not meant to be dismissive of you at all - I just feel like this is idle speculation, you know?) :toast:

[dogday]

53. I haven't felt right about this case since

I heard that 911 call made by a what I believe was a white gal talking about the frat boys harassing her and "her black girlfriend" as they walked by and called them the (N) word... She went on to talk about her neighborhood and the KKK on a station wagon as to why she called.. It was a weird call to say the least... The phone call seemed fake to me, very fake.

Who calls 911 to report on some guys calling you a name?????

[hexola]

58. It's ALL idle speculation on these threads...

How can it be anything else?...we arent lawyers...we dont have the evidence...we dont know the witnesses...all we have is what the media has reported. All you can do is speculate...

Speculate freely...

This isnt a fact finding mission...or some legal forum...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

61. Well, there's a slight difference.

One can surmise a lot from known evidence. What we're doing is speculating on what the actual evidence is, which really isn't all that helpful. I know it's not all that serious what we're doing or anything, but you could talk this point in circles when there's really only one answer out there (on this fact anyway).

[dogday]

33. I have not seen that, do you remember where

you read or heard it?? All I know are these are digital pictures....

[Blue Diadem]

43. I thought it was a discussion on DU..don't have time to search right now

I'll search later today..gotta go fix lunch for DH. I don't know if they were saying it was definitely a camera phone or if it was speculation. I just know I never would have known about the time not being able to be altered on a camera phone if I hadn't read it..and I usually only read DU.

[dogday]

46. Someone just said that they have

proved that it was easy to mis-set a cell phone.. I would think you could do it in the phone setup like you do anything else... Will look for that information... Thanks

[Blue Diadem]

62. I found one link..apparently speculation:

I thought there was more conversation about this but I couldn't locate it.

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2219305#2221624

[dogday]

17. Read the timeline of when the pictures were taken.....

The photos are believed to be authentic and taken by one of the students at the March 13 party. The time stamps on the photos appear to be accurate. Pictures of a wristwatch magnified for clarity correspond with the time on the photos. The players are sitting on three couches in a semicircle with the dancers in the middle.

11:02 p.m.: The first picture shows at least 10 students hanging out in a living room, apparently waiting for the dancers to arrive. Most of the students appear to be drinking. By the number of people in this photo, it appears only a fraction of the 47 lacrosse team members are there.

12 a.m.: This is the first picture of the strippers. Students are watching the show, but not grabbing or attempting to touch the women. Bruises are clearly visible on the legs and thighs of the alleged victim.

12:00:40 a.m.: Another picture taken 40 seconds later shows bruises on the accuser's knees. Her right knee appears to have an open cut.

12:03:57 a.m.: About four minutes after arriving, a picture shows the strippers leaving the room. The photo clearly shows that the alleged victim left behind one of her shoes.

Between 12:10 a.m. and 12:30 a.m.: No photos were taken between this time.

12:30:12 a.m.: The next photo shows the alleged victim on the back porch, carrying what appears to be her purse and a makeup bag. Her clothes are intact.

12:30:47 a.m.: A photo taken 30 seconds later shows the alleged victim on the porch and she appears to smile.

12:31:26 a.m.: But 30 seconds after that, a photo shows the alleged victim stumbling down the back steps of the house.

12:37:58 a.m.: A series of photos are taken, all showing the woman lying on her left side on the back porch, seemingly passed out or asleep. She had visible cuts on her legs and buttocks that did not appear in the previous photos.

The cuts may be from falling. The cuts on her buttocks line up with the edge of a screen door she may have hit on the way down.

12:41 a.m.: The final photo shows the accuser and the second dancer in a black car. The accuser is in the passengers seat.

Many of the photos taken on the back porch show pink splotches, which the defense says is undried nail polish. They claim the accuser was polishing her nails in the bathroom between 12:10 a.m. and 12:30 a.m. - - not being raped.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4091290

[dogday]

23. No pictures taken between 12:10 and 12:30

Many of the photos taken on the back porch show pink splotches, which the defense says is undried nail polish. They claim the accuser was polishing her nails in the bathroom between 12:10 a.m. and 12:30 a.m. - - not being raped.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

28. Well, that'll be easily proven too.

I'm fairly certain those CSI guys can tell nail polish from blood.

[marions ghost]

31. oh yeah

pardon me, boys, while I go in the bathroom and polish my nails....? Eh? They really are using this as a defense?

I think they will have to explain that unusual time gap in the photos. And how does it help them to show her in a falling down stupor when witnesses can say she arrived in control of herself? These photos may actually be damaging for the defense IMO.

[dogday]

32. I also think the polishing of the nails

is weird, especially when they found pieces of her nails in the bathroom.. So that is what they are saying happened.... Where was the other dancer when this was going on????

[LostinVA]

50. Maybe to explain pieces of nails being in the bathroom?

Which shows these guys know nothing about polishing nails... or fake nails.

[dogday]

55. When fake nails break, you have all the glue and

gook on the top of your nail and could not possibly paint it.....

[KittyWampus]

56. "Unusual Time Gap" Um, the woman herself says she left the party

and then decided to go back in.

So it's not an "unusual time gap" by the woman's own account.

[dogday]

57. But the guys say she was in the bathroon

during that time.. By their own statements--See post 17

[LostinVA]

38. Yup... I find that gap very interesting....

[Catherine Vincent]

24. Regardless, don't worry about it.

Rita Crosby is on the case. She was interviewing some cab driver last night that picked up one of the accusers twice.

[timber84]

25. Oh god not her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dogday]

26. If Rita is on the case, we will find the truth right????

:rofl:

[timber84]

29. She used to be a local news person here in Charlotte, I'm sure

she's been whoring that fact.

[dogday]

30. That and the poor Hollaway girl in Aruba

man there is a story that has legs, it has been walking around for a year....

[Zynx]

39. I hate that woman with a passion.

She is one of the causes of America's decline.

[hexola]

42. Give us a freakin' break...!!!

You cant be serious...hate hate hate hate hate hate hate....

Not liking her is one thing...

She is nothing...insignificant...

[timber84]

44. it's just an expression which the poster is entitled to use.

[hexola]

52. Sorry - the media has been outed...we have bigger fish to fry...

I can think of anyone more insignificant than Rita Crosby when it comes to the challenges facing this country...

We know the media is biased...we know they selectively release information...we know...

It's a postulate...

Way too much time spent flagellating over media bias...

"She is one of the causes of America's decline."

Please...why do you empower her this way...she is nothing.

[Zynx]

49. Yikes. Calm down a little bit.

People make themselves far too miserable over little things that other people say.

[johnnie]

51. I saw him this morning

They showed the paperwork of the call to the taxi. It was for two of the guys.

[David__77]

35. The rightists are hoping for a "Tawana Brawley."

Sean Hannity bemoans the case of "these kids" who are "being accused." What poor, oppressed, white "kids" these are. Who doubts that the whole affair would be protrayed differently if this were a party of almost all Black men with WHITE strippers?

[LostinVA]

36. My BIL does secret intelligence stuff (he is also a Freeper)

HE told me that on most digital cameras and cellphones, this data is manipulated... and, even if NOT manipulated, is not necessarily accurate. AS per the OP's reasons.

He is quite a Freeper, but is also the father of a daughter he loves very much.

[LostinVA]

37. Also, the photos haven't been released

[Fleshdancer]

41. drudge supposedly had some up the other day

:shrug:

[hexola]

59. Arent these photos meaningless?

The only real value these photos may have is to compare to "post-rape" photos...

Who cares if she showed up with bruises and bloody scars at the party?...that doesnt matter...

Its the comparison to the post-rape photos that matter...if she had more bruises and more bloody scars...then the photos are relevant...

[LostinVA]

60. Great point