I just heard on the news that there is a good economy.....

[Missy M]

and that is good for the Bush Administration, but the price of gasoline is overshadowing it. I would like someone to tell me how this economy is good. Skyrocketing energy costs, high health costs, war in Iraq, benefit losses to the working class, jobs being outsourced, trade deficits, poor getting poorer, and on and on. If I hear one more time about the good, growing economy by the pundits I will finally lose it.

[Quakerfriend]

1. Me too, Missy!!!!

And, I never hear a word about the skyrocketing cost of food, these days.

[Missy M]

16. Boy, do I agree with that. I can't seem to get out of the...

grocery store for less than $100.00 and that is without much meat or goodies.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. I guess you are not living in the Bizarro world of whoever is writing that

news.

[Thtwudbeme]

7. Remember, they count part timers, contract workers, and temps

as employed.

What that report doesn't say is how many people are trying to make it working 30 hours a week at Walmart. How many people cannot afford to go to the Dr.--forget the dentist--and forget the vet for your doggie.

Pretty scary economy going here...but, it's a sack of lies to try to get voters to think, "man, this is great!"

[BrklynLiberal]

15. and they don't count those who have given up on trying to find a job

[flobee1]

3. I've asked that of dyed in the wool repubs

name 1 thing that is good about this economy

they cant answer with facts, just what they've heard from Rush

[0007]

9. ...and how bias the media is and how they're out to get junior

[flobee1]

19. yup-typical

the talk quickly turns to the liberal media, Bill Clinton then Ted Kennedy
they just spout mindless slogans, thats all they have left

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. They believe someone who is paid 25 mil a year to lie to them.

They should ask themselves why that is.

[Waya]

4. I'd like for them to ...

...tell me WHERE the Economy is good...I'd like to relocate to that place........

[Yupster]

32. West Texas

There's not an office in town without a help wanted sign in it.

The oil patch is luring the workers from everywhere else leaving shortages in every occupation. If you can't get a job in West Texas today, then you just aren't trying.

[stepnw1f]

5. That's Because We aren't Rich Greedy Republicans

benefiting from not paying any taxes and selling America to international corporations.

[Flabbergasted]

6. Duh....Global Corporations are doing quite well.

[unblock]

8. but exxon's profits more than make up for all that bad stuff!

:sarcasm:


actually, that is the sorry truth. "the" economy is actually an average of many different industries and markets and locales. some are doing well (defense, energy, republican donors) others are suffering (most of the rest of us).

on average, the profits "we" are making from high energy prices and offshoring and health care is overshadowing the suffering.


just look at health care, for instance. if prices have doubled, then its share of gdp has doubled. that's "good" as far as the economy goes, at least when all you look at is headline markers like gdp and core inflation. it's not "bad" until that causes massive defaults on patients' (other) obligations.

[FloridaPat]

10. We have a brand new big shopping center here in Lakeland.

It's half full and has been open since around Thanksgiving. There are empty stores everywhere. Housing is booming though. Road construction is everywhere. I've been out of work most of the last 2 years. Recently got a job at a large corporation opening their second store here. $8.50 an hour for physical labor type work parttime. I've had a desk job for 25 years and "in shape" doesn't even begin to describe me. However, when I was in college, the temporary jobs I had paid that much. Back then a dollar was a dollar and now I don't think it's worth a penny.

[SlipperySlope]

11. It is very strange...

I'll try to be honest and hold back my typical sarcasm.

By most standard measures the economy is doing very well. But obviously, a lot of people don't agree with those measures. So, the conundrum is figuring out what is going on.

Either people are just pessimistic and don't want to beleive the numbers, or the traditional measures are no longer useful at measuring the economy due to structural changes.

Here are some positive facts:

Official inflation rates are low.
Official unemployment numbers are low.
The stock market is doing well.
The federal debt, relative to GDP, is historically normal.
Some are projecting the federal budget to be balanced in 2008.

But then there are all these weird things going on:

The constant outsourcing of manufacturing jobs.
The rising prices of commodities (Copper, Zinc, Gold, Oil).
The unknown of how the pricing bubble is going to unfold.

So, honestly, I don't think anybody knows exactly WTF is going on. There is a lot of malaise in general, glimpses of positive signs, and glimpses of negative signs. I think the big test will come this summer, after the Fed stops raising short-term rates. Keep your eye on long-term rates for a hint of what is to come.

[wryter2000]

13. Balanced budget by 2008?

How could that possibly be? Not to doubt you, but that mystifies me. With the tax cuts and the Iraq war costing $10 billion per month, how could we balance the budget?

[SlipperySlope]

21. That's what some predict...

I'm not claiming this is a correct forecast, and I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just reporting what I've seen in a few places.

The basic idea is that government income (tax receipts) are growing faster than spending is growing. If you simply project the current growth forward to 2008, it predicts the deficit will be zero again.

Like I've said, I've seen this idea floated a few different places. I wish I could find a more definitive link for you, but this is the only one I was able to fish out with google:

http://www.optimist123.com/optimist/2005/11/balanced_budget.html

[Yupster]

33. If the economy grows enough,

the budget will be balanced because of all the extra tax dollars brought in above what was expected.

If you remember during the tech boom of the late ninetees, every quarter there'd be a new defecit projection and it would be radically less than the last projection. That's because when the economy is booming, the government pays out much less than it budgeted for welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc. When the economy is booming, the government takes in much more in tax dollars than it expects.

Then there is the wild card which can be the biggest of them all. That's the stock market. From 1995-1999 the market went up 20 + % every year. That means an awful lot of people sold an awful lot of JDS Uniphase for an incredible profit, and that means a windfall of unexpected capital gains taxes the government hadn't counted on.

So, defecit numbers can turn positive very quickly in a booming economy if the stock market booms too.

I am unfortunately not optimistic that we are now entering one of those periods though. I think it more likely that a recession is coming within the next 2-3 years as it's about due.

[wryter2000]

35. Thanks to both of you

Interesting. I imagine if a Booshie-type remains in charge, he'll give any surplus away to the rich. Plus, this damned war is so expensive.

[salin]

36. bushco uses numbers to show a balanced budget

that depend on the tax cuts sunsetting. Odd - given that they also go around stating that the tax cuts must be made permanent. In short - they think we are fools.

[Robbien]

17. I believe BushCo will lower his poll ratings if he harps on the economy.

The GOP keeps saying its a good economy with low inflation but people look around their world and just don't see it.

In my area a loaf of bread is edging up on $4.00 a loaf for christsake.

[wryter2000]

12. Growth of GDP

They measure "the economy" as the growth of the Gross Domestic Product. I have no idea how GDP is calculated.

In the past, growth of GDP was usually correlated with better times for average people. Companies would hire employees in good jobs, people would buy things, and things would get better over all. What we're seeing now is the corporations and ultra-rich keeping the money, and none of it goes to anyone below the rich. It's GREED, of course.

But, in a nutshell, that's why they keep saying "the economy" is good when most people are hurting.

[Missy M]

18. If so much manufacturing is done in China and other....

countries and services are being outsourced how can our GDP be growing. I really don't understand.

[tandot]

14. A good economy... for oil companies, millionaires, and billionaires

I don't understand it either. I try really hard to be positive about the economy, but I just see too many poor people getting screwed while the rich get fat tax breaks.

[JanMichael]

20. Here in NC consumer bankruptcies have increased 49% since 2000.

Yep things are just dandy.

[Dunvegan]

22. And now, for a Ross Perot moment: Maybe this chart will clear things up.

[Missy M]

23. Doesn't it make you angry that $87 billion dollars would be...

spent killing people, destroying their country and then rebuilding it. It makes me furious.

[Speck Tater]

24. The economy IS good.

For the investor class. Just remember that the investor class is who writes the financial columns and does all the analysis of how the economy is doing. When more and more workers are laid off, that puts extra money in the pockets of the investor class, that's a good economy by their standards. That's better "productivity", which is really just a measure of how exploited the wage-earning class is. The more wage earners are out of work and struggling to survive, the better the economy is, for them.

Of couse they fail to recognize that the vanishing middle class is the ultimate customer for the goods and services made by the companies they invest in, and eventually, the companies that keep laying off people to improve the bottom line, will have no sales, and no bottom line to improve.

(ed:sp)

[Missy M]

26. You are right, it will eventually happen that the middle class...

will no longer be able to buy the goods and services offered. The middle class is struggling just to pay higher health costs, gasoline, food, all the basics. We will no longer have anything left to buy the goods or put anything into savings.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Any economy would look good if you borrowed $3T to float it.

Frankly, at $3,000,000,000,000.00 the economy should be great.

The fact that it isn't says volumes.

[Neil Lisst]

28. This is eerily similar to the late 1920s, when Wall Street was rolling

but out in the country, people were hurting, were losing homes, losing farms, getting swept aside by monied interests centered in the nation's financial centers.

Bush has always reminded me of Calvin Coolidge, who fiddled while big business ran amok.

[Missy M]

29. Do you think we could be heading for another crash and....

depression?

[Neil Lisst]

30. I don't really think we're headed for Depression, but serious Recession

has to happen.

We're over our limits on debt, across the board, from individuals, to companies, to our government.

It's got to get worse with energy being the inflationary pressure it is.

[Thtwudbeme]

34. I think we are heading for another depression.

Most of the families affected in '29 were one wage households...now that two income households are fairly normal...instead of living on one income, and saving the other, families are using both--AND their credit cards--something else that wasn't around commonly in '29.

It's going to be ugly as hell: Greenspan himself said "no bank is too big to fail." I personally took that as a warning.

[killbotfactory]

31. It's pretty awesome right now if you are in the oil business

or a defense contractor.

[kentuck]

37. You don't have Exxon stock ?

Hmmmm-mmm.