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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 05:49 PM
Original message
My friend is thinking of joining the Air Force Reserves.
I'm thinking this is a bad bad very bad idea. Can anyone help me find some info to send her way? Many thanks. And please forgive me if I don't get back to you tonight--I probably won't be online again until tomorrow.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. One question for her
Why?
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Money.
Some recruiters came to the community college where she's taking classes and talked the good talk.

The city we live in is poor. Lots of young people are moving away because there aren't enough barista jobs to go around.



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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Tell her that they're liars
Her life has no cash value, and the recruiters are all liars.

Maybe moving away is what she has to do. She's young, and there's a big world out there, but the military is NOT the way to do it. That's a good way to get killed - or, if she's lucky, crippled and maimed for life.

When you're young, you should be making the moves. Be adventurous and take chances.

You're a good friend to be worried about her. And, welcome to DU, femmedem.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks for the welcome and the advice.
I'm on a slow dial-up. I'll be able to do some research for her, but I was wondering if you or anyone knew of any wonderfully pertinent web sites?
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Just check with the sites
put up by veterans.

Start here - http://www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php

If you contact these people, I'm sure they'll be the ones who will give you and your friend all the pertinent information that you'll want or need - and these folks are the real goods.

Welcome, again.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Oh, thank you. How could I have forgotten about these good folks?
That's exactly what I'm looking for.

BTW, I always read your posts with interest.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thank you
You're a great addition here, kid, and just stay close. We're family. The good kind - the kind you get to ignore if you want to.

Good luck.
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pocket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. blood money
How much is worth it to help bomb innocent children?

No matter what job she gets in the AF, she is ultimately supporting violent aggression.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Agreed. n/t.
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benddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. In the services now
all promises are off. People who have totally safe (non-combat) jobs are being transformed (with little training) into ground pounders, explosive technicians etc. I spent 22 years in the military but wouldn't join today on a bet.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Thanks, benddem.
That's what I figured, but I thought she needed something a little more convincing than me and my figuring.

Are the Air Force reserves as bad as the army?

Can I tell her that the recruiters will tell her anything, anything, and it will all change after she signs?
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. I enlisted in the USAR post Nam
for years I had recommended it for some kids. It was good for me.

HOWEVER, I would not recommend it now. Did you know:

that some women have died in Iraq due to dehydration. Seems they stop drinking water so the don't have to use the toilet at night-a good way to get raped. Rape is more common that even the Brass think. I know, I had to comfort quite a few friends that declined to report assaults. I don't know how you would be treated as an enemy combatant, but I wouldn't expect much, Abu Ghrib did away with the Geneva Convention.

being in the Air Force is no guarentee that you won't be on the ground fighting with Navy or National Guardsmen in Fallujah. And believe me, don't ever buy the story that you won't be at the front line. The last war with a line was WWI and the Maginot line in France. Every spot in Iraq is the front line.

think it is all over after you do your 6 years. Think again. Two words....stop loss. Since we are at 'war', they own your ass per Congress and the courts. THEY DO NOT HONOUR YOUR CONTRACT. LET ME REPEAT....THEY DO NOT HONOUR YOUR CONTRACT.

Why open the door and let trouble in? Please they will talk you up and promise you the moon and stars. I use to say read the contract carefully, however, they seem to be hell bent to rewrite your contract after you have signed on the dotted line.

I wouldn't recommend it to ANYONE these days.

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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Holy moly.
I hadn't heard about the dehydration due to fear of sexual assault. She's a tiny, tiny woman. Maybe 95 lbs. And the rest of your reasons are excellent as well. I'll send her your entire post verbatim. Thanks.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. I wouldn't enlist until 2008
Does she really want to trust her life to Der AWOL Chimpernfuhrer?
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Chimpernfuhrer! LOL! Thanks. n/t
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. As an Air Force vet, I WOULD NOT ENLIST TODAY!!!
As stated above, there are no sure things. She could be assured a job that is safe, only to be hastily cross-trained and sent off to Iran!!! The military is the World's Aggressor now, NOT the Defender of Freedom!!!
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thanks. Words from a vet carry more weight than words from me. nt
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. She can never really get out
She may think that she is enlisting for X number of years, but she will subject herself to a lifetime involuntary draft. See, for example:

Army Prepares to Activate at Least 5,600 Troops From Individual Ready Reserves

July 1, 2004
By Lisa Burgess,
Stars and Stripes European Edition

ARLINGTON, Va.
— For the first time since the Gulf War, the Army is preparing for the involuntary activation of at least 5,600 soldiers who have long since hung up their uniforms, Pentagon and Army officials said Tuesday.

The Bush administration has mobilized thousands of reservists since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. But this call-up, to be announced as early as Wednesday, involves troops from the Individual Ready Reserves, or IRR — servicemembers who have left active duty or active reserve service but still have time left on their obligation to serve

President Bush cleared the way for the Pentagon to use the IRR when he issued a Declaration of National Emergency after Sept. 11. The declaration allows the government to order to active duty up to 1 million members of the Selected Reserve, Individual Ready Reserve, and Inactive National Guard without their consent, for a period not to exceed 24 consecutive months.

<snip>

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,SS_070104_Reserves,00.html

Also, Iran war will be an air war (at first). I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the service if/when that one starts. Even in a non-combat role I would worry about DU exposure and radiation injuries (depending on which direction the wind is blowing if/when any "tactical nukes" get dropped.

So for a little money today, she'll be trading in the rest of her life.

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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. That article's terrific.
I knew this stuff, but I didn't know how to tell her without making it sound like just some rumour. And, I don't know why, but I wasn't sure if all the stuff I knew about the army held equally true for the air force.

And I'll talk to her about DU, too. They finally have a study showing that it is damaging, regardless of radiation. Again, because I have no clue what air force reservists are likely to end up doing, I didn't know if she was likely to be exposed. But you and the other posters have convinced me it's a real possibility.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. here are some important thoughts for her
1. When you join the military, you are giving up many of the rights you have as an American, and substituting instead MILITARY justice, where things like having an affair with an officer can get you jail time.

2. You belong to them. They tell you what to do and where to go.

3. You belong to them any time they want you. If they decide you're leaving for Iran next week, that's where you're going.

4. They tell you what to wear, how to cut your hair, and what you can have in the way of piercings and tattoos.

Don't go into it without realizing what it means.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I will pass this along. Thanks, Neil. n/t
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 07:38 PM by femmedem
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. please also tell her my opinion would be different if Clinton were pres
Bush is something we have not seen before. He's this brash, ignorant, military wannabe, and that's what makes him so dangerous to military.

The military can be a great experience, but I couldn't let anyone go in during Bush's presidency without expressing grave concerns. This guy could start WWIII.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. Air Force retiree here
What my fellow blue suiters said.

Yes, they will guarantee her a specific AFSC (AF speciality code, ie job), even put it in writing. Half way through basic or even tech school, she'll be told the field is overmanned and she's going to be laterally retrained/assigned to another AFSC - oldest scam on the books.

Tell your friend this: Don't do it. At least wait until Smirky et al are history.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Wow. I didn't fully realize they would guarantee a specific job
in writing, then renege. I will tell her this came from someone with your background.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. Guarantees
Don't get me wrong; this isn't always done with malice of forethought. Things can change and do, very suddenly. The end of the cold war is a good example. Thousands of Soviet specialists found themselves without jobs, from Army armour tactics experts to AF Russian language types. Most were retrained or handed their walking papers.

Rubber and road encounter: If it's a regulation, a policy, a directive, anything other than a law (pay is an example, only Congress can mess with that), it can be changed or ignored by the five sided circus.

My advice to anyone thinking about enlisting is get a current DD Form 4, the enlistment contract, (they're on line) and read it - all of it. Pay particular attention to the fine print that says in effect we can change just about anything we agreed to; you can't.

Simply put, enlisted are indenture servants. It's a tough enough life when de boss is playing fair; when you're nothing more than kleenex, it's intolerable.
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LiberalUprising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. 10 EXCELLENT REASONS NOT TO JOIN THE MILITARY
Cindy Sheehan's son, Casey, was killed in Iraq on April 4, 2004. In this chapter she chronicles every parent's worst nightmare -- outliving a child. To spare any more parents her grief Cindy demands that the US withdraw from Iraq immediately.
"Don't join the military. The recruiters lie. They never tell you that you may die and put your mom in hell."

http://www.10reasonsbook.com/killed.htm
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. I adore Cindy Sheehan.
My sister, lwfern here on DU, met her on the Veterans for Peace/Katrina survivors march from Mobile to New Orleans. But I didn't know she had written this. Thank you so much.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. and now, a word from your sister
Edited on Sat Apr-22-06 12:23 PM by lwfern
:)

I know you sent me an email, but I figured I'd post the response in public, in case it can benefit other people. Some of it you already know, being family and all, but it may help to have it put together in one place.

1. First off, here are the local contacts for Veterans for Peace - you can find the chapters in your area, and ask them for counter-recruitment pamphlets. http://www.veteransforpeace.org/chapters_112603.htm

2. How the enlistment contract is written. This is taken directly from an enlistment contract:

9. FOR ALL ENLISTEES OR REENLISTEES: Many laws, regulations, and military customs will govern my conduct and require me to do things a civilian does not have to do. The following statements are not promises or guarantees of any kind. They explain some of the present laws affecting the Armed Forces which I cannot change but which Congress can change at any time.

a. My enlistment is more than an employment agreement...

b. Laws and regulations regarding military personnel may change without notice to me. Such changes may effect my status, pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/reenlistment document.

c. In the event of war, my enlistment in the Armed Forces continues until six (6) months after the war ends, unless my enlistment is ended sooner by the President of the United States.


3. Long term, veterans earn LESS than civilians. http://www.v-r-a.org/docs/DisAVets.htm#_ednref12 has a table showing the discrepancy. Veterans earn roughly 12% less than nonvets - all in all, $180,000 less over the course of a lifetime. One of the reasons is that they spend a large amount of their younger years training in a job that doesn't translate to civilian skills, another is that they deal with the aftereffects of things like PTSD.

4. Casualty rates. A lot of people think of that as just the number of troops killed, but it also includes injured. In Iraq, we have over 2,000 killed - but over 20,000 killed or injured. And that doesn't include the PTSD folks, or the folks that will come back with DU poisoning, or the suicides that occur after they return. And it doesn't address things like the odd cocktails of vaccines you get in the military, without being informed (I had that), or other games they play with your health, without letting you know. I don't know what to make of this, for example, but I can't donate blood anymore because I lived in Germany for over 6 months during the 80's, as a military dependent. The red cross won't accept my blood, because I'm at an increased risk for Mad Cow Disease. I wouldn't have a huge issue with that, except that if I'd lived there as a civilian, let's say a foreign exchange student who had nothing to do with the military, they WOULD accept my blood. So that means there was something about being in the military that put me at an increased risk. Coincidentally, while I was there, they would have these great deals where once a week, once a month, I forget the frequency, we all got vouchers for free/drastically reduced steak at the commissary. It was part of some government surplus program for farmers. So they dumped a bunch of beef on us that apparently wasn't as safe as what was being sold in the US, or as safe as what was being sold in Germany. It didn't meet either country's standard. We've never been notified of the risk from the army, never got a letter with information about it, would never know except that the Red Cross considers my blood tainted. What the hell.

5. Rape and Assault in the military. Nearly one in four female outpatients using Veterans Affairs medical centers reports being sexually assaulted during a tour of duty. http://www.gaymilitary.ucsb.edu/ResearchResources/PressClips/news10_31_99.htm If you are assaulted, the odds of the command chain doing anything meaningful about it are slim. If you look at the Tailhook incident (Air Force, btw), 140 aviators were found guilty of sexually assaulting 90 people. NONE of them were court-martialed. Then in 2003, this: "Air Force Secretary James Roche testified before the Senate Armed Service Committee yesterday that the Air Force has found at least 54 cases where women have been raped or sexually assaulted at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs." http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0320236

And then this: "In a startling revelation, the former commander of Abu Ghraib prison testified that Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, former senior US military commander in Iraq, gave orders to cover up the cause of death for some female American soldiers serving in Iraq. Last week, Col. Janis Karpinski told a panel of judges at the Commission of Inquiry for Crimes against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration in New York that several women had died of dehydration because they refused to drink liquids late in the day. They were afraid of being assaulted or even raped by male soldiers if they had to use the women's latrine after dark." http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2006/01/military_concea.html

6. Veterans benefits that recruiters promise are bullshit. I'm saying that firsthand. I got a big song and dance about how once you're a vet, the VA will treat you for anything, no problem. That was bullshit. Benefits get cut, eligibility can be slashed at anytime, even if the recruiter is telling you the truth at the time that he says something, the government can turn around and change the rules on you (see section 9c of the contract, above). When Joe (the ex) needed surgery, Joe who served 4 years active duty as a Russian linguist during the Cold War, he had to fly to Russia to get the surgery, because he wasn't eligible through the VA, and couldn't afford it in the states. That's the most pathetic thing ever to me, that a veteran can only get medical care from the so-called enemy they were fighting, because the country they served turns their collective backs on you once you return.

7. Length of time of commitment. Young people don't know where their lives are going to take them. Hell, old people don't know where their lives are going to take them, as often as not. When you sign up, you're always thinking it's a 2 year enlistment, or a 4 year enlistment. It's not. I signed up for 4 years, and there was a little fine print about the IRR, which, as the recruiter explained, was just a matter of being in a database. No actual duty required. No big deal. So I went in, for my four years. Then real life happened, and I got pregnant. Luckily, I knew a little about my rights, because the recruiter had mentioned if you get pregnant, you have the option of terminating your contract. I opted to do that, because 2 deployable military parents didn't seem like a good idea to me - what happens to your 3 month old if both of you have to go to the field at once, for a month long assignment? So I got out. Then - and only then - I found out I was actually not out, but in the IRR til the remainder of my 8 year commitment. No problem.

After my kid was born, as a nursing mom, I got my letter assigning me to a local Reserves Unit for the monthly drills and two weeks training. The reserve unit they assigned me to was almost an hour away. I didn't have reliable transportation (our car was alright for driving around town, but would frequently die and leave us having to walk home, and would sit abandoned for a few days until the Gods of Electrical Starters would decide it should run again). So I had a baby that couldn't be fed if I was gone for 9 hours, I was going to be listed as AWOL if I don't report for duty, but I had no way of getting there, the needed repairs on the car cost way the hell more than I could afford, way the hell more than the crap pay I was going to earn in 2 days a month. Welcome to the reserves, where it COSTS you money to work.

That was resolved - like was mentioned upthread, by getting retrained into a different specialty. I was fortunate, because at least for me, there was a closer unit to where I lived, one that happened to have an opening. I guess I would have been AWOL otherwise - I have no clue what would have happened. That whole guarantee of a job? There's no guarantee the job you've been trained for will exist in the area you chose to live in, once you're in the IRR. Should mention, also, I got called up out of the IRR in peace time. There was no conflict going on, it was just a random "you got out early because of the pregnancy, so now you owe us the full 8 years." I was retrained as an Order of Battle specialist. There's not a lot of call for that job in the civilian world.

And here's how the benefits worked with that. During the pregnancy, I had complications - was in the hospital on an IV for weeks - that top number of my blood pressure was down in the 50's; I was a mess. I'd be on the IV on bed rest, I'd get out, the army would make me pull duty, my body couldn't handle it, they'd toss me back in the hospital. They made it clear I couldn't do the discharge papers while I was actually IN the hospital. So I panicked - was afraid they wouldn't let me out at all. Once the kid is born, you don't have that option to leave anymore. So on one of my releases from the hospital, I crammed the paperwork through the system, afraid it was now or never. (Got it through a little faster than normal by showing up in people's offices, and saying "if I have to wait, you should probably move a trashcan over here, because I throw up about every half hour.) Got out a few weeks shy of the 2 year mark. As a result, all the GI benefits went down the drain. That's what I signed up for, in part, to help pay for grad school. Gone. But MY commitment remained, still had to put in those 8 years, got a few scares of being called up and deployed once Desert Storm hit, those luckily those each fell through for my unit - but still, none of the benefits, all of the commitment. That's how the contracts work. You commit to everything, no matter what. They commit to ... absolutely nothing.

Now with the stop loss going on, people are finding out that it's not a 4 year commitment, not an 8 year commitment, but in fact a commitment that can consume your entire life, at the will of the government. In the amount of time you're committed for, anything could happen. The last thing I was thinking about when I enlisted was that I might have a child - ever. You could have to leave a child unattended, quit college, leave parents that are sick, leave a spouse that is sick. Anything.

8. College money. "To qualify for any college aid at all, you have to pay a $1200 non-refundable deposit to the military. If you receive a less-than-honorable discharge (as about one in four people do), leave the military in less than 3 years, (as one in three do), or later decide not to go to college, the military will keep your deposit and give you nothing.

57% of the veterans who sign up for the GI Bill have never seen a penny in college assistance, and the average net payout to veterans has been only $2151. 29% of veterans have been determined not eligible for benefits at the time of their discharge, either for being discharged early or with a less than honorable discharge. These veterans have thus lost both their $1200 payroll deduction and any hope of benefits at all.

Even for veterans who qualify for the MGIB, there is still one more surprising twist. When a veteran files for Federal Student Aid to determine how much they can pay for college, money from the GI Bill is counted as an asset, and subtracted from whatever aid package they would have received if they weren't getting money from the GI Bill. Therefore, the expected out-of-pocket financial contribution from a veteran will be exactly the same as if they never entered the military. The total financial aid package will be no greater than for a non-veteran of equal financial status.

The military takes in a lot of money that will not be paid back. In other words, it’s really the military that profits, not veterans." http://www.famedetroit.org/milfacts.htm

9. I won't be in danger if I'm in the Air Force! The families of these troops might disagree.

Brown, Bruce E. Technical Sergeant 32 U.S. Air Force 78th Logistics Readiness Squadron Non-hostile - vehicle accident Al Udeid (near) Coatopa Alabama US
Fresques, Jeremy Captain 26 U.S. Air Force 23rd Special Tactics Squadron Non-hostile - airplane crash Jalawlah (near) Clarkdale Arizona US
Argel, Derek Captain 28 U.S. Air Force 23rd Special Tactics Squadron Non-hostile - airplane crash Jalawlah (near) Lompoc California US
Mariano, Jude C. Master Sergeant 39 U.S. Air Force 615th Air Mobility Operations Squadron Non-hostile - vehicle accident Doha Vallejo California US
Jacobson, Elizabeth Nicole Airman 1st Class 21 U.S. Air Force 17th Security Forces Squadron Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Camp Bucca (near) Riviera Beach Florida US
Holt, Antoine J. Airman 1st Class 20 U.S. Air Force 603rd Air Control Squadron Hostile - hostile fire - mortar attack Balad (Balad Air Base) Kennesaw Georgia US
Peters, Dustin W. Staff Sergeant 25 U.S. Air Force 314th Logistics Readiness Squadron Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack FOB Summerall (near, nr. Bayji) El Dorado Kansas US
Sather, Scott Douglas Staff Sergeant 29 U.S. Air Force 24th Special Tactics Squadron Hostile - hostile fire Southern part Clio Michigan US
Auchman, Steven E. Master Sergeant 37 U.S. Air Force 5th Air Support Operations Squadron Hostile - hostile fire - mortar attack Mosul Waterloo New York US
Scott, David A. Master Sergeant 51 U.S. Air Force 445th Communications Flight Non-hostile - unspecified cause Doha Union Ohio US
Boria, John J. Captain 29 U.S. Air Force 911th Air Refueling Squadron Non-hostile - vehicle accident Doha Broken Arrow Oklahoma US
Norton, Jason L. Technical Sergeant 32 U.S. Air Force 3rd Security Forces Squadron Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Taji (near) Miami Oklahoma US
Griffin Jr., Patrick Lee Staff Sergeant 31 U.S. Air Force 728th Air Control Squadron Non-hostile - ordnance accident Ad Diwaniyah Elgin South Carolina US
Anderson Jr., Carl L. Airman 1st Class 21 U.S. Air Force 3rd Logistics Readiness Squadron Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Mosul (south of) Georgetown South Carolina US
Espaillat Jr., Pedro I. Senior Airman 20 U.S. Air Force 4th Aircraft Maintenance Squadron Non-hostile - weapon discharge Kirkuk Columbia Tennessee US
Das, Eric Bruce Captain 30 U.S. Air Force 333rd Fighter Squadron Hostile - jet crash Tikrit (near) Amarillo Texas US
Moss Jr., Walter M. Technical Sergeant 37 U.S. Air Force 366th Civil Engineer Squadron Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Baghdad (near) Houston Texas US
Rangel, Ray Staff Sergeant 29 U.S. Air Force 7th Civil Engineering Squadron Non-hostile - vehicle accident (drowning) Balad (near) San Antonio Texas US
McElroy, Brian Staff Sergeant 28 U.S. Air Force 3rd Security Forces Squadron Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Taji (near) San Antonio Texas US
Watkins III, William Randolph Major 37 U.S. Air Force 333rd Fighter Squadron Hostile - jet crash Tikrit (near)
Downs, William Major 40 U.S. Air Force 6th Special Operations Squadron Non-hostile - airplane crash Jalawlah (near) Winchester Virginia US
Crate, Casey Staff Sergeant 26 U.S. Air Force 23rd Special Tactics Squadron Non-hostile - airplane crash Jalawlah (near) Spanaway Washington US

That doesn't include injuries. Just guessing randomly, based on overall statistics, I'd say multiply that list by ten for a rough estimate of total casualties. She should be aware, especially as a woman, that she's vulnerable to being pulled into a position of checking female Iraqi's at checkpoints, no matter what her job series is. Regina Clark was a good example of that. She was a navy reservist, trained as a cook. They put her in Iraq, assigned her to a checkpoint. Here's a transcript of a CNN interview referencing her:

"KAYE: Lance Corporal Erin Liberty remembers the explosion violently lifting the truck in the air. Her seat mate, 43-year-old Regina Clark was on fire.

LIBERTY: I look over to my left, and I see her, and she bounced down on the bench really hard and she just bounced up and she just tumbled into the flames. I looked over, all I could see was orange fire and flames and then she was gone.

KAYE: Clark was later identified only by her dog tags. The women were returning to Camp Fallujah from guarding checkpoints and inspecting Muslim women for weapons. Male Marines were escorting the women's truck." http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/24/cst.03.html
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Wow. You must have spent all morning on this.
Edited on Sat Apr-22-06 01:03 PM by femmedem
I'm sending it to my friend pronto. Also my local counter-recruiting group. And I think it should be on DU more prominently, so I'm going to start a new thread giving people the heads up. Is there any place on DU for permanent resources like this?

I totally forgive you for anything you ever did as a kid. And I'm sorry I took your yo-yo.:-)
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I'm sorry I lied about the yo-yo incident
For the record, I totally broke my finger smacking you, not defending myself against your punch.

(you did have your own yo-yo though, didn't you? What the hell did you need mine for?!)

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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. I just ordered the book
and will give it to my friend ASAP. Thanks again.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Send her this article... Army Suicides Hit Highest Level Since '93
Army Suicides Hit Highest Level Since '93

Army Suicides Hit Highest Level Since '93

By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer
44 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - The number of U.S. Army soldiers who took their own lives increased last year to the highest total since 1993, despite a growing effort by the Army to detect and prevent suicides.

In 2005, a total of 83 soldiers committed suicide, compared with 67 in 2004, and 60 in 2003 — the year the U.S. invaded Iraq. Four other deaths in 2005 are being investigated as possible suicides but have not yet been confirmed. The totals include active duty Army soldiers and deployed National Guard and Reserve troops.

"Although we are not alarmed by the slight increase, we do take suicide prevention very seriously," said Army spokesman Col. Joseph Curtin.

"We have increased the number of combat stress teams, increased suicide prevention and training, and we are working very aggressively to change the culture so that soldiers feel comfortable coming forward with their personal problems in a culture where historically admitting mental health issues was frowned upon," Curtin said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060421/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/army_suicides_1

See related thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x991431
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Thanks, Ian.
It was so kind of you to find this. I will forward it to her.

Since my first post, I found out that my husband's nephew left for Saudi Arabia today, one day after his son was born. It's touching everyone now, isn't it.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. No, not everyone
The richest 2% get a tax break and a "Support our Troops" ribbon for their Hummers and Cadillac Escalades while their kids go to college and ours go off to war.


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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. Have her watch this video
Beyond Treason. Let her listen to the veterans in their own words.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7994353294099338929

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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I will send the link to her. Thanks.
My computer is mute, but I'll bet hers isn't.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
37. I have a friend that is retired Army and he
is in Maryland train AF type to shoot rifles so that they can go to Iraq. There was a thread on here about the Navy too....

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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
38. have them read up on "blue to green".
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
39. Kick
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
40. birth defects/health affects


"Neither Shana nor her husband can answer that question conclusively, but they suspect that Kennedi's troubles have their origins in the Gulf, where Darrell served as an Army paratrooper. During operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm, he faced a mind- boggling array of environmental hazards. Like an estimated 45,000 of his comrades, he has developed symptoms--in his case, asthma and recurring pneumonia--linked to an elusive affliction known as Gulf War syndrome. And like a growing number of Gulf War veterans, some of whom remain apparently healthy, he has fathered a child with devastating birth defects."

<snip>


A military policeman posted mainly at an airfield in Saudi Arabia, Brad, along with 150,000 other American soldiers, took a vaccine--on his commander's orders--against weapon-borne anthrax. A second vaccine, against botulism, was administered to 8,000 soldiers. A staff report issued last December by the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs concluded that "Persian Gulf veterans were . . . ordered under threat of Article 15 or court-martial, to discuss their vaccinations with no one, not even with medical professionals needing the information to treat adverse reactions from the vaccine." The Senate report noted that the particular botulinum toxoid issued "was not approved by FDA." Other details from the survey: Of responding veterans who had taken the anthrax vaccine, 85 percent were told they could not refuse it, and 43 percent experienced immediate side effects. Only one fourth of the women to whom it was administered were warned of any risks to pregnancy. Of all responding personnel who had taken the antibotulism medicine, 88 percent were told not to turn it down and 35 percent suffered side effects. None of the women given botulinum toxoid were told of pregnancy risks. "Anthrax vaccine should continue to be considered as a potential cause for undiagnosed illnesses in Persian Gulf military personnel," said the report in one of its summations. And in another: " safety remains unknown."


http://www.life.com/Life/essay/gulfwar/gulf01.html


"A discovery by American Free Press that nearly half of the recently returned soldiers in one unit from Iraq have "malignant growths" is "critical evidence," according to experts, that depleted uranium weapons are responsible for the huge number of disabled Gulf War vets - and damage to their DNA."

<snip>

"Statistics published in Encyclopedia Britannica's 2003 Almanac indicate that 325,000 Gulf War vets were receiving compensation for service-related disabilities in 2000. The almanac lists 580,400 combatants in the Persian Gulf War of 1990-91, yet only 467 U.S. personnel were actually wounded during the conflict. The 325,000 disabled Gulf War vets are equivalent to 56 percent of the number of military personnel "serving in the theater of operation."

<snip>

"Life reported, "Of the 400 sick vets who had already answered committee inquiries, a startling 65 percent reported birth defects or immune-system problems in children conceived after the war."


http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2004/08/15_bollyn_depleted-uranium-blamed-cancer.htm

(should be noted that this last article ties the symptoms strongly to Depleted Uranium, which may or may not be the cause.) As Dave Cline (VFP) put it, (paraphrasing here) the veterans are being required to provide proof to the government that this is what caused their problems, rather than the government taking aggressive steps to investigate. This is like demanding that a rape victim go out and collect their own DNA samples from a rapist before a case can go to court.
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